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Lauren Clarke
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Posted - 2004.07.26 03:05:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Selim
Sorry! No, it doesnt. Have you ever seen a dual mwd raven? IMPOSSIBLE to kill and yet has hardly any drawbacks to damage.
Please. Anything, any ship, can be killed. You may not know how to - let that not confuse you into thinking it is not possible.
As for dual-mwd ravens with smbs and wcs ganking frigates. Well gentlemen - if you aren't quick enough to get out of the way, you deserve to loose 200k ship to a 100mil vessel.
As for idea of not being able to maneuver with MWD on - without any offence that's just ridiculous. Devs didn't do that for a reason. If you think it's great idea why don't you try and simulate that behavior in current situation to see how retarded it all ends up being.
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Lauren Clarke
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Posted - 2004.07.26 03:05:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Selim
Sorry! No, it doesnt. Have you ever seen a dual mwd raven? IMPOSSIBLE to kill and yet has hardly any drawbacks to damage.
Please. Anything, any ship, can be killed. You may not know how to - let that not confuse you into thinking it is not possible.
As for dual-mwd ravens with smbs and wcs ganking frigates. Well gentlemen - if you aren't quick enough to get out of the way, you deserve to loose 200k ship to a 100mil vessel.
As for idea of not being able to maneuver with MWD on - without any offence that's just ridiculous. Devs didn't do that for a reason. If you think it's great idea why don't you try and simulate that behavior in current situation to see how retarded it all ends up being.
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BobGhengisKhan
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Posted - 2004.07.26 03:11:00 -
[63]
No, it cannot be killed if a good pilot is controlling it. You can align for warp terribly fast, and if caught, just book it for the gate and let your momentum carry you through, and laugh as the enemies are all held up by the agression timer
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BobGhengisKhan
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Posted - 2004.07.26 03:11:00 -
[64]
No, it cannot be killed if a good pilot is controlling it. You can align for warp terribly fast, and if caught, just book it for the gate and let your momentum carry you through, and laugh as the enemies are all held up by the agression timer
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Lauren Clarke
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Posted - 2004.07.26 03:16:00 -
[65]
Originally by: BobGhengisKhan
No, it cannot be killed if a good pilot is controlling it. You can align for warp terribly fast, and if caught, just book it for the gate and let your momentum carry you through, and laugh as the enemies are all held up by the agression timer
I concede, if you weren't in aggression act just before then it is possible.
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Lauren Clarke
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Posted - 2004.07.26 03:16:00 -
[66]
Originally by: BobGhengisKhan
No, it cannot be killed if a good pilot is controlling it. You can align for warp terribly fast, and if caught, just book it for the gate and let your momentum carry you through, and laugh as the enemies are all held up by the agression timer
I concede, if you weren't in aggression act just before then it is possible.
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TWD
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Posted - 2004.07.26 03:43:00 -
[67]
Quote:
Everytime i tryed or seen them actually been webbed they can still fly faster than most ships with MWD on.
Cap aint no problem on them, a dual MWD rupture can run forever with dual if fitted right while still shooting missiles. Shields are not used for anything when people can't even catch you. Sig radius aint no problem either since you just outrun people so they can't shoot you.
btw, dont confuse MWD with AB,
a rupture cannot sustain 2 10MN MWD's.
it can sustain 2x 100MN AB's, and with no signature radius penalties, difficult to kill.
when a ship uses dual MWD, the added signature radius _does_ make alot of difference.
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TWD
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Posted - 2004.07.26 03:43:00 -
[68]
Quote:
Everytime i tryed or seen them actually been webbed they can still fly faster than most ships with MWD on.
Cap aint no problem on them, a dual MWD rupture can run forever with dual if fitted right while still shooting missiles. Shields are not used for anything when people can't even catch you. Sig radius aint no problem either since you just outrun people so they can't shoot you.
btw, dont confuse MWD with AB,
a rupture cannot sustain 2 10MN MWD's.
it can sustain 2x 100MN AB's, and with no signature radius penalties, difficult to kill.
when a ship uses dual MWD, the added signature radius _does_ make alot of difference.
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Rthor
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Posted - 2004.07.26 04:21:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Even worse are the dual-mwd'd pilots who also use multiple WCS 
And let's get rid of safespots too.
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Rthor
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Posted - 2004.07.26 04:21:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Even worse are the dual-mwd'd pilots who also use multiple WCS
And let's get rid of safespots too.
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Morikai Acler
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Posted - 2004.07.26 04:50:00 -
[71]
I can't really touch this subject to defend it. I've never had problems taking down dual MWD ships personally, all setups have their weakness.. It just takes a good eye and some studying and measuring up to find them.
As far as the 10mn and 100mn ab thing goes, I can defend that. Anyone who's using two 100mn ab's on a cruiser isn't using much for weapons. Very few cruisers can take 2 100mn cruisers and then it takes a buttload of RCU's to do. And they still wouldn't be going as fast as they would with 2 10mn MWDs. Frigates with 10mn ab's can only fit 1 10mn ab on them, and still have any decent pvp setup. Also still not going as fast as they would be with 1mn mwd. With max Acceleration control a next size up ab tech 1 will only give 437% speed boost to a smaller ship, 562% on a tech2. Where as with the same skills for a mwd, you get 625% boost around the board, with a lot less PG usage on the tech1 models. So you're getting around the penalties for a lot slower speeds, and inability to properly fit multiples and still be able to fight. Not to mention, even with good skills the tech 2 variants of the AB's still use more power than the MWDs.
The problem with the current MWD penalty is that it hits certain races twice as hard as others. Namely the caldari, since their ships are ment as shield tanks. They don't have the armor and structure that the other races have. So fitting 1 or more MWD's on a caldari ship turns your defenses to paper. Not to mention the cap on caldari ships is one of the larger sizes, meaning they get hit hard there too.
I realize that some people want all their enemies ships handed to them on a silver platter, but that shouldn't happen.
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Morikai Acler
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Posted - 2004.07.26 04:50:00 -
[72]
I can't really touch this subject to defend it. I've never had problems taking down dual MWD ships personally, all setups have their weakness.. It just takes a good eye and some studying and measuring up to find them.
As far as the 10mn and 100mn ab thing goes, I can defend that. Anyone who's using two 100mn ab's on a cruiser isn't using much for weapons. Very few cruisers can take 2 100mn cruisers and then it takes a buttload of RCU's to do. And they still wouldn't be going as fast as they would with 2 10mn MWDs. Frigates with 10mn ab's can only fit 1 10mn ab on them, and still have any decent pvp setup. Also still not going as fast as they would be with 1mn mwd. With max Acceleration control a next size up ab tech 1 will only give 437% speed boost to a smaller ship, 562% on a tech2. Where as with the same skills for a mwd, you get 625% boost around the board, with a lot less PG usage on the tech1 models. So you're getting around the penalties for a lot slower speeds, and inability to properly fit multiples and still be able to fight. Not to mention, even with good skills the tech 2 variants of the AB's still use more power than the MWDs.
The problem with the current MWD penalty is that it hits certain races twice as hard as others. Namely the caldari, since their ships are ment as shield tanks. They don't have the armor and structure that the other races have. So fitting 1 or more MWD's on a caldari ship turns your defenses to paper. Not to mention the cap on caldari ships is one of the larger sizes, meaning they get hit hard there too.
I realize that some people want all their enemies ships handed to them on a silver platter, but that shouldn't happen.
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Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2004.07.26 04:57:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Levin Cavil on 26/07/2004 04:59:14
I dont mind the idea of making afterburners be a 3-400% speed boost and make mwds like 1000% or something retarded with a 100% shield hit and like -50% cap size/recharge time or something, maybe even more and also introducing the nerf that only allows them to be used when traveling in a straight line. Then you have no way of using MWD in battle as it cripples your ship and requires cap batteries and rechargers to even be used but afterburners are just like mwd's are now. It solves all the problems, afterburners are finally useful, mwd are only for travel but don't really help you escape blockades, etc.
------------------------------
<Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
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Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2004.07.26 04:57:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Levin Cavil on 26/07/2004 04:59:14
I dont mind the idea of making afterburners be a 3-400% speed boost and make mwds like 1000% or something retarded with a 100% shield hit and like -50% cap size/recharge time or something, maybe even more and also introducing the nerf that only allows them to be used when traveling in a straight line. Then you have no way of using MWD in battle as it cripples your ship and requires cap batteries and rechargers to even be used but afterburners are just like mwd's are now. It solves all the problems, afterburners are finally useful, mwd are only for travel but don't really help you escape blockades, etc.
------------------------------
<Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.07.26 08:38:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 26/07/2004 08:40:36
Dual MWD cruisers and battleships get torn to peices by good turret users.
I hope they don't nerf MWD's any more, or my high speed maneuvering 5 that finishes in 10 days will be useless...
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.07.26 08:38:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 26/07/2004 08:40:36
Dual MWD cruisers and battleships get torn to peices by good turret users.
I hope they don't nerf MWD's any more, or my high speed maneuvering 5 that finishes in 10 days will be useless...
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.07.26 09:23:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 26/07/2004 08:40:36
Dual MWD cruisers and battleships get torn to peices by good turret users.
I hope they don't nerf MWD's any more, or my high speed maneuvering 5 that finishes in 10 days will be useless...
heh
I finished standard missiles 5 two days before it got changed 
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.07.26 09:23:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 26/07/2004 08:40:36
Dual MWD cruisers and battleships get torn to peices by good turret users.
I hope they don't nerf MWD's any more, or my high speed maneuvering 5 that finishes in 10 days will be useless...
heh
I finished standard missiles 5 two days before it got changed
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
fairimear
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Posted - 2004.07.26 10:46:00 -
[79]
Is this the bs owners that use large guns convention?
It looks like it.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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fairimear
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Posted - 2004.07.26 10:46:00 -
[80]
Is this the bs owners that use large guns convention?
It looks like it.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.07.26 11:07:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 26/07/2004 08:40:36
Dual MWD cruisers and battleships get torn to peices by good turret users.
I hope they don't nerf MWD's any more, or my high speed maneuvering 5 that finishes in 10 days will be useless...
heh
I finished standard missiles 5 two days before it got changed
Yeah, I know you've been screwed on skill training a number of times by nerfing. But I've almost maxed out my nav skills, just as CCP has decided once again that everybody should move slow in combat.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.07.26 11:07:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 26/07/2004 08:40:36
Dual MWD cruisers and battleships get torn to peices by good turret users.
I hope they don't nerf MWD's any more, or my high speed maneuvering 5 that finishes in 10 days will be useless...
heh
I finished standard missiles 5 two days before it got changed
Yeah, I know you've been screwed on skill training a number of times by nerfing. But I've almost maxed out my nav skills, just as CCP has decided once again that everybody should move slow in combat.
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.07.26 11:24:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Dexter Rast
complete bull**** topic, the module are there to stop such ships, and fighting at speed has alway been more fun.
the fact that you CAN stop ships like this makes this whole topic a non-starter
massive cap and sheild problems, and a hugely increased sig radius are more than enough penalty.
PvP is meant to be varied, you have slow ships, fast ships, missile boats, gun boats, tackler ships.. and the list goes on,
the beuty of this game is the diversity and the ability to take 1 ships and equip it to do various tasks within the game..
bottom line is, some you win some you loose, an interceptor with a 10mn ab fitted is hard for a battlehsip to track, but try to tackle that same interceptor with another interceptor then that lvls out the playing feild,
same with duel mwd frigs, fit another frig with dual mwd and a webber to tackle it. for gate camps fit 2 frigs with sensor booster and webbs, have them sit 10km form the gate and they tackle anything that tries to pass,,
there are plenty of options available to combat each setup in the game, all the people who whine about setups are the lazy ones who wont engange their brains to outhink and adapt..
Lol what's the matter Dexter? Fraid yer oh so original dual 100mn AB Rupture loadout might become obsolete?
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.07.26 11:24:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Dexter Rast
complete bull**** topic, the module are there to stop such ships, and fighting at speed has alway been more fun.
the fact that you CAN stop ships like this makes this whole topic a non-starter
massive cap and sheild problems, and a hugely increased sig radius are more than enough penalty.
PvP is meant to be varied, you have slow ships, fast ships, missile boats, gun boats, tackler ships.. and the list goes on,
the beuty of this game is the diversity and the ability to take 1 ships and equip it to do various tasks within the game..
bottom line is, some you win some you loose, an interceptor with a 10mn ab fitted is hard for a battlehsip to track, but try to tackle that same interceptor with another interceptor then that lvls out the playing feild,
same with duel mwd frigs, fit another frig with dual mwd and a webber to tackle it. for gate camps fit 2 frigs with sensor booster and webbs, have them sit 10km form the gate and they tackle anything that tries to pass,,
there are plenty of options available to combat each setup in the game, all the people who whine about setups are the lazy ones who wont engange their brains to outhink and adapt..
Lol what's the matter Dexter? Fraid yer oh so original dual 100mn AB Rupture loadout might become obsolete?
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Kamath
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Posted - 2004.07.26 12:20:00 -
[85]
Hi,
Why always nerf ??
Dual MWD are good solution for hunting frig/inty, and this type of configuration is part of the game. The speed is good for defense and offense. if u want to kill anyone with dual MWD use ur brain and find a strategy to catch him. personally i dont use dual mwd except for fast traveling.
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Kamath
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Posted - 2004.07.26 12:20:00 -
[86]
Hi,
Why always nerf ??
Dual MWD are good solution for hunting frig/inty, and this type of configuration is part of the game. The speed is good for defense and offense. if u want to kill anyone with dual MWD use ur brain and find a strategy to catch him. personally i dont use dual mwd except for fast traveling.
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Cherok
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Posted - 2004.07.26 14:15:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Cherok on 26/07/2004 14:17:42
MWD's as they stand are fine. My shields are non existant and once i fire my MWDS, I dont' have much cap to play with at all.
Those of you who say 2-3 webs will not stop this setup are not speaking from experience. If I fire both my boosters I will get up to a max of 3.6km a sec in 10 seconds or so. With 2 Webs on me I'll be doing like just over 100 m/sec. Keep in mind that to fire them again, I've used up most of my cap.
There are setups out there that will easily defeat this setup. As people have already stated, use your brain and come up with it. Scorps/Ravens/Dominix/tempest can tackle this setup a variety of ways and blast it to oblivion.
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Cherok
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Posted - 2004.07.26 14:15:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Cherok on 26/07/2004 14:17:42
MWD's as they stand are fine. My shields are non existant and once i fire my MWDS, I dont' have much cap to play with at all.
Those of you who say 2-3 webs will not stop this setup are not speaking from experience. If I fire both my boosters I will get up to a max of 3.6km a sec in 10 seconds or so. With 2 Webs on me I'll be doing like just over 100 m/sec. Keep in mind that to fire them again, I've used up most of my cap.
There are setups out there that will easily defeat this setup. As people have already stated, use your brain and come up with it. Scorps/Ravens/Dominix/tempest can tackle this setup a variety of ways and blast it to oblivion.
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Brunis
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Posted - 2004.07.26 14:31:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Cherok
Edited by: Cherok on 26/07/2004 14:17:42
Those of you who say 2-3 webs will not stop this setup are not speaking from experience. If I fire both my boosters I will get up to a max of 3.6km a sec in 10 seconds or so. With 2 Webs on me I'll be doing like just over 100 m/sec. Keep in mind that to fire them again, I've used up most of my cap.
3.6km is still ******* fast, its faster than most interceptors with just one MWD on.
Originally by: Cherok
There are setups out there that will easily defeat this setup. As people have already stated, use your brain and come up with it. Scorps/Ravens/Dominix/tempest can tackle this setup a variety of ways and blast it to oblivion.
Why is it that all you people that love dual MWD call us stupid but still can't tell us how to catch them?
You just say that its easy and that we are idiots.
If someone tells me a setup that will defeat dual MWD easy and it actually works when i test it, i will run around and shout "don't nerf MWD" but untill then i still say NERF THOES DAMN MWDs!
/Brunis
Another dog lifting its leg |
Brunis
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Posted - 2004.07.26 14:31:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Cherok
Edited by: Cherok on 26/07/2004 14:17:42
Those of you who say 2-3 webs will not stop this setup are not speaking from experience. If I fire both my boosters I will get up to a max of 3.6km a sec in 10 seconds or so. With 2 Webs on me I'll be doing like just over 100 m/sec. Keep in mind that to fire them again, I've used up most of my cap.
3.6km is still ******* fast, its faster than most interceptors with just one MWD on.
Originally by: Cherok
There are setups out there that will easily defeat this setup. As people have already stated, use your brain and come up with it. Scorps/Ravens/Dominix/tempest can tackle this setup a variety of ways and blast it to oblivion.
Why is it that all you people that love dual MWD call us stupid but still can't tell us how to catch them?
You just say that its easy and that we are idiots.
If someone tells me a setup that will defeat dual MWD easy and it actually works when i test it, i will run around and shout "don't nerf MWD" but untill then i still say NERF THOES DAMN MWDs!
/Brunis
Another dog lifting its leg |
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