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Dual MWD, the bane of PvP?

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Rakoon	Posted - 2004.07.26 23:16:00 - [121] Edited by: Rakoon on 26/07/2004 23:35:22 Originally by: Selim Whats the point of a blockade if anyone can run through? All throughout history blockades have not been 100% effective. There have always been blockade runners who have managed to get through. Please understand I am not trying to compare Earth's borders or naval blockades with space flight. I am simply trying to say that no matter what, an effective blockade would still be porous and some people could still go through (though with high risks), so the mechanics of EVE should allow for that.
Rakoon	Posted - 2004.07.26 23:16:00 - [122] Edited by: Rakoon on 26/07/2004 23:35:22 Originally by: Selim Whats the point of a blockade if anyone can run through? All throughout history blockades have not been 100% effective. There have always been blockade runners who have managed to get through. Please understand I am not trying to compare Earth's borders or naval blockades with space flight. I am simply trying to say that no matter what, an effective blockade would still be porous and some people could still go through (though with high risks), so the mechanics of EVE should allow for that.
BobGhengisKhan	Posted - 2004.07.27 00:26:00 - [123] Edited by: BobGhengisKhan on 27/07/2004 00:27:37 Quote: Those of you who say 2-3 webs will not stop this setup are not speaking from experience. If I fire both my boosters I will get up to a max of 3.6km a sec in 10 seconds or so. With 2 Webs on me I'll be doing like just over 100 m/sec. Keep in mind that to fire them again, I've used up most of my cap. I'm speaking from experience, we've tanked the gates in Ashmarir many times and seen double or triple mwd battleships get by our 2 or 3 webs, momentum alone will get you through. You do not instantly hit 100 m/s, and, once through, the enemies that webbed you cannot follow
BobGhengisKhan	Posted - 2004.07.27 00:26:00 - [124] Edited by: BobGhengisKhan on 27/07/2004 00:27:37 Quote: Those of you who say 2-3 webs will not stop this setup are not speaking from experience. If I fire both my boosters I will get up to a max of 3.6km a sec in 10 seconds or so. With 2 Webs on me I'll be doing like just over 100 m/sec. Keep in mind that to fire them again, I've used up most of my cap. I'm speaking from experience, we've tanked the gates in Ashmarir many times and seen double or triple mwd battleships get by our 2 or 3 webs, momentum alone will get you through. You do not instantly hit 100 m/s, and, once through, the enemies that webbed you cannot follow
Meridius	Posted - 2004.07.27 00:45:00 - [125] Originally by: Sassinak Edited by: Sassinak on 26/07/2004 15:03:49 Ask Kayosoni the outcome of his Dual MWD raven Vs Myself and TWD teh other night we were in Geddons he warps in with himself and his alt account. Both died within about 30seconds. his raven moreso caus he dual burned his mwd straight for (his signature radius is enourmous, his capacitor is small and his shields are smaller) His ship was tore apart before he even got a second volley off on me. I love you ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2004.07.27 00:45:00 - [126] Originally by: Sassinak Edited by: Sassinak on 26/07/2004 15:03:49 Ask Kayosoni the outcome of his Dual MWD raven Vs Myself and TWD teh other night we were in Geddons he warps in with himself and his alt account. Both died within about 30seconds. his raven moreso caus he dual burned his mwd straight for (his signature radius is enourmous, his capacitor is small and his shields are smaller) His ship was tore apart before he even got a second volley off on me. I love you ________________________________________________________
DJTheBaron	Posted - 2004.07.27 01:55:00 - [127] duel mwd frigates simply dont have the offence but are a real pain, tho missile frigates especially crow is effective at flybys, personally i never duel mike a frig as for cruisers, if i want to kill other cruisers or heavy hit a bs in fleet combat single mwd, if i want to hunt industrial ships and frigates i use 2 speed boosters, and loose 60-70% of my offence in the process, if i get webed even once, and believe me its more than possible with my increased sig radius and the fact i have to travel to 10km to web others so i die a lot when i take the stupid risks to get that extra kill the only thing that can catch a duel mwd frig is a duel mwd frig, with the mass of cruisers it takes a while for them to outrun frigates but since they will be doing flybys one web and theyre a target for their sig radius, hitpoints and lack of offence duek mwd bs on the other hand, their mass makes it veyr had to build up the speed, more then enough time to get webbed, they loose half cap and half sheilds and sacrifice a chunk of grid which is thousands of hitpoints and loads of cap im expecting a duel speed booster penalty to be come out, even tho current mwd nerfs are beciming way too much, cmon cap, sheild AND sig, this makes cap heavy ships or ships designed to sheild tank virtually crippled just by using 1 so duel drived ships wil be looked into, but the mwd is like hitting yourself with tombs nerf bat at the moment, i see no reason to fit a mwd on an interceptor given that their ship bonus is sig radius and mwd makes a mockery out of that so im sure afrer ships are tweaked, drones and missiles tuned we may see a mwd overhaul, as a caldari piliot i would love to see a reduction in sheild penalty for their ships given that sheild boosting and tanking it messed up by loosing 1/4 sheild, loosing the mid slot required for a cap recharger or sheild module and because cap relays are now designed for armour tankers even tho most use rechargers, sheild tankers dont have the option of keeping their mdi sltos for sheild and low for cap the way armour tankers have thw low for amrour and mid for cap __________________________________________________ Scum, your all scum.
DJTheBaron	Posted - 2004.07.27 01:55:00 - [128] duel mwd frigates simply dont have the offence but are a real pain, tho missile frigates especially crow is effective at flybys, personally i never duel mike a frig as for cruisers, if i want to kill other cruisers or heavy hit a bs in fleet combat single mwd, if i want to hunt industrial ships and frigates i use 2 speed boosters, and loose 60-70% of my offence in the process, if i get webed even once, and believe me its more than possible with my increased sig radius and the fact i have to travel to 10km to web others so i die a lot when i take the stupid risks to get that extra kill the only thing that can catch a duel mwd frig is a duel mwd frig, with the mass of cruisers it takes a while for them to outrun frigates but since they will be doing flybys one web and theyre a target for their sig radius, hitpoints and lack of offence duek mwd bs on the other hand, their mass makes it veyr had to build up the speed, more then enough time to get webbed, they loose half cap and half sheilds and sacrifice a chunk of grid which is thousands of hitpoints and loads of cap im expecting a duel speed booster penalty to be come out, even tho current mwd nerfs are beciming way too much, cmon cap, sheild AND sig, this makes cap heavy ships or ships designed to sheild tank virtually crippled just by using 1 so duel drived ships wil be looked into, but the mwd is like hitting yourself with tombs nerf bat at the moment, i see no reason to fit a mwd on an interceptor given that their ship bonus is sig radius and mwd makes a mockery out of that so im sure afrer ships are tweaked, drones and missiles tuned we may see a mwd overhaul, as a caldari piliot i would love to see a reduction in sheild penalty for their ships given that sheild boosting and tanking it messed up by loosing 1/4 sheild, loosing the mid slot required for a cap recharger or sheild module and because cap relays are now designed for armour tankers even tho most use rechargers, sheild tankers dont have the option of keeping their mdi sltos for sheild and low for cap the way armour tankers have thw low for amrour and mid for cap __________________________________________________ Scum, your all scum.
Clan MacGregor	Posted - 2004.07.27 01:57:00 - [129] Originally by: BobGhengisKhan Edited by: BobGhengisKhan on 27/07/2004 00:27:37 Quote: Those of you who say 2-3 webs will not stop this setup are not speaking from experience. If I fire both my boosters I will get up to a max of 3.6km a sec in 10 seconds or so. With 2 Webs on me I'll be doing like just over 100 m/sec. Keep in mind that to fire them again, I've used up most of my cap. I'm speaking from experience, we've tanked the gates in Ashmarir many times and seen double or triple mwd battleships get by our 2 or 3 webs, momentum alone will get you through. You do not instantly hit 100 m/s, and, once through, the enemies that webbed you cannot follow Sometimes the Rabbit wins... I almost got eaten alive at a jump gate, but the Lif Fuel booster carried the day. When I'm travelling through rough systems, I plan for gate campers and equip as necessary. That is what we call "Prior Planning". Maybe you should think of other tactics to ganke other players.
Clan MacGregor	Posted - 2004.07.27 01:57:00 - [130] Originally by: BobGhengisKhan Edited by: BobGhengisKhan on 27/07/2004 00:27:37 Quote: Those of you who say 2-3 webs will not stop this setup are not speaking from experience. If I fire both my boosters I will get up to a max of 3.6km a sec in 10 seconds or so. With 2 Webs on me I'll be doing like just over 100 m/sec. Keep in mind that to fire them again, I've used up most of my cap. I'm speaking from experience, we've tanked the gates in Ashmarir many times and seen double or triple mwd battleships get by our 2 or 3 webs, momentum alone will get you through. You do not instantly hit 100 m/s, and, once through, the enemies that webbed you cannot follow Sometimes the Rabbit wins... I almost got eaten alive at a jump gate, but the Lif Fuel booster carried the day. When I'm travelling through rough systems, I plan for gate campers and equip as necessary. That is what we call "Prior Planning". Maybe you should think of other tactics to ganke other players.
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2004.07.27 03:14:00 - [131] Originally by: Brunis Why is it that all you people that love dual MWD call us stupid but still can't tell us how to catch them? You just say that its easy and that we are idiots. Ok, let me get this straight, you want me to give you the perfect solution for how to kill me, and you're calling me stupid? So, feel like sharing your ship's config with all the world? Feel like sharing all the weaknesses of your ship's config with all the world? Don't worry, I'll be taking good notes on this. Harry Voyager
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2004.07.27 03:14:00 - [132] Originally by: Brunis Why is it that all you people that love dual MWD call us stupid but still can't tell us how to catch them? You just say that its easy and that we are idiots. Ok, let me get this straight, you want me to give you the perfect solution for how to kill me, and you're calling me stupid? So, feel like sharing your ship's config with all the world? Feel like sharing all the weaknesses of your ship's config with all the world? Don't worry, I'll be taking good notes on this. Harry Voyager
holy jo	Posted - 2004.07.27 07:29:00 - [133]
holy jo	Posted - 2004.07.27 07:29:00 - [134]
holy jo	Posted - 2004.07.27 07:30:00 - [135] Quote: Why is it that all you people that love dual MWD call us stupid but still can't tell us how to catch them? You just say that its easy and that we are idiots . Read the post Dexter mad it tells you how
holy jo	Posted - 2004.07.27 07:30:00 - [136] Quote: Why is it that all you people that love dual MWD call us stupid but still can't tell us how to catch them? You just say that its easy and that we are idiots . Read the post Dexter mad it tells you how
6666	Posted - 2004.07.27 07:33:00 - [137] Got to say all this moaning about duel mwd ships..in whatever capacity is a load of old tosh! Seems to me the people who moan on are the ones that know jack about pvp in the first place. IT IS possible to catch and kill a mwd ship if you use the correct tactics and set ups...this game is and always has been about diversity and tactics........PLEASE stop moaning and work things out. Using a "speed" set up has many drawbacks and to further nerf it would be ridiculous in the extreme
6666	Posted - 2004.07.27 07:33:00 - [138] Got to say all this moaning about duel mwd ships..in whatever capacity is a load of old tosh! Seems to me the people who moan on are the ones that know jack about pvp in the first place. IT IS possible to catch and kill a mwd ship if you use the correct tactics and set ups...this game is and always has been about diversity and tactics........PLEASE stop moaning and work things out. Using a "speed" set up has many drawbacks and to further nerf it would be ridiculous in the extreme
Kamath	Posted - 2004.07.27 09:00:00 - [139] Originally by: 6666 Got to say all this moaning about duel mwd ships..in whatever capacity is a load of old tosh! Seems to me the people who moan on are the ones that know jack about pvp in the first place. IT IS possible to catch and kill a mwd ship if you use the correct tactics and set ups...this game is and always has been about diversity and tactics........PLEASE stop moaning and work things out. Using a "speed" set up has many drawbacks and to further nerf it would be ridiculous in the extreme Agree
Kamath	Posted - 2004.07.27 09:00:00 - [140] Originally by: 6666 Got to say all this moaning about duel mwd ships..in whatever capacity is a load of old tosh! Seems to me the people who moan on are the ones that know jack about pvp in the first place. IT IS possible to catch and kill a mwd ship if you use the correct tactics and set ups...this game is and always has been about diversity and tactics........PLEASE stop moaning and work things out. Using a "speed" set up has many drawbacks and to further nerf it would be ridiculous in the extreme Agree
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2004.07.27 09:55:00 - [141] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 27/07/2004 09:59:24 Why restrict to one mwd when making the stacking add instead of multiply would do the trick nicely, while still leaving some advantage to ftting two ? Oh, and catch a dual MWD BS by putting inty's at consequetive gates rather then all at one gate. The BS will have burned thru it's cap after two or three jumps and can be webbed there. But you guys know that don't you ? _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2004.07.27 09:55:00 - [142] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 27/07/2004 09:59:24 Why restrict to one mwd when making the stacking add instead of multiply would do the trick nicely, while still leaving some advantage to ftting two ? Oh, and catch a dual MWD BS by putting inty's at consequetive gates rather then all at one gate. The BS will have burned thru it's cap after two or three jumps and can be webbed there. But you guys know that don't you ? _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Def Antares	Posted - 2004.07.27 11:52:00 - [143] Originally by: Randay While we are at it, lets make it impossible to move once you've been engaged in combat. Then noone will have to worry about having any fun! We can all just sit around and set our modules to auto and just wait and see who dies first! I have yet a better ideay, make it so that all frigates explode immediately and their pilots get podded the moment a hostile BS or cruiser enters the system! That would stop the whining of the BS pilots I would hope, but only god knows.
Def Antares	Posted - 2004.07.27 11:52:00 - [144] Originally by: Randay While we are at it, lets make it impossible to move once you've been engaged in combat. Then noone will have to worry about having any fun! We can all just sit around and set our modules to auto and just wait and see who dies first! I have yet a better ideay, make it so that all frigates explode immediately and their pilots get podded the moment a hostile BS or cruiser enters the system! That would stop the whining of the BS pilots I would hope, but only god knows.
Estios	Posted - 2004.07.27 13:44:00 - [145] Thanks Kayo, I thought it was a quality idea too . It kinda got lost though as usual in the ever so repetitive 'Oh look at the BS pilots whine' or my favourite 'Adapt or die' posts If people wanna utilise speed for PVP then they should be able too, I totally respect people who think outside the box. BUT do you really think its a fair use of game mechanics to waltz through blockades in a lone Battleship by fitting 2 or 3 MWD (in case of emergency) and 6,7 or 8 WCS and using Insta jumps ?? My idea of limiting WCS based on number of MWD fitted is merely a ill thought out start to addressing it. But it is a situation which needs addressing because these 3 combined do effectively ruin gate camps. And for the guy saying hunt your prey, I can pretty much tell you that a large majority of PVP (ganking is still PVP ) happens at gates in 0.0 space. We catch people at belts a lot but most of time they see Local channel jump up and off to the ultra safe spot they go. Im off topic because my beef isnt just with dual MWD , its with this combined with multiple WCS and Insta jumps. Please if you are going to reply to my post with adapt or die I pity you. Im just trying to thrash out ideas to address this ultra safe travel and consentual PVP era which currently reigns supreme. So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Estios	Posted - 2004.07.27 13:44:00 - [146] Thanks Kayo, I thought it was a quality idea too . It kinda got lost though as usual in the ever so repetitive 'Oh look at the BS pilots whine' or my favourite 'Adapt or die' posts If people wanna utilise speed for PVP then they should be able too, I totally respect people who think outside the box. BUT do you really think its a fair use of game mechanics to waltz through blockades in a lone Battleship by fitting 2 or 3 MWD (in case of emergency) and 6,7 or 8 WCS and using Insta jumps ?? My idea of limiting WCS based on number of MWD fitted is merely a ill thought out start to addressing it. But it is a situation which needs addressing because these 3 combined do effectively ruin gate camps. And for the guy saying hunt your prey, I can pretty much tell you that a large majority of PVP (ganking is still PVP ) happens at gates in 0.0 space. We catch people at belts a lot but most of time they see Local channel jump up and off to the ultra safe spot they go. Im off topic because my beef isnt just with dual MWD , its with this combined with multiple WCS and Insta jumps. Please if you are going to reply to my post with adapt or die I pity you. Im just trying to thrash out ideas to address this ultra safe travel and consentual PVP era which currently reigns supreme. So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
BIRDofPREY	Posted - 2004.07.27 14:55:00 - [147] Originally by: 6666 Got to say all this moaning about duel mwd ships..in whatever capacity is a load of old tosh! Seems to me the people who moan on are the ones that know jack about pvp in the first place. IT IS possible to catch and kill a mwd ship if you use the correct tactics and set ups...this game is and always has been about diversity and tactics........PLEASE stop moaning and work things out. Using a "speed" set up has many drawbacks and to further nerf it would be ridiculous in the extreme This might require more brain power than the skill set allows for in Gate Camper... Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage
BIRDofPREY	Posted - 2004.07.27 14:55:00 - [148] Originally by: 6666 Got to say all this moaning about duel mwd ships..in whatever capacity is a load of old tosh! Seems to me the people who moan on are the ones that know jack about pvp in the first place. IT IS possible to catch and kill a mwd ship if you use the correct tactics and set ups...this game is and always has been about diversity and tactics........PLEASE stop moaning and work things out. Using a "speed" set up has many drawbacks and to further nerf it would be ridiculous in the extreme This might require more brain power than the skill set allows for in Gate Camper... Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage
Hematic	Posted - 2004.07.27 16:47:00 - [149] Originally by: Estios Thanks Kayo, I thought it was a quality idea too . It kinda got lost though as usual in the ever so repetitive 'Oh look at the BS pilots whine' or my favourite 'Adapt or die' posts If people wanna utilise speed for PVP then they should be able too, I totally respect people who think outside the box. BUT do you really think its a fair use of game mechanics to waltz through blockades in a lone Battleship by fitting 2 or 3 MWD (in case of emergency) and 6,7 or 8 WCS and using Insta jumps ?? My idea of limiting WCS based on number of MWD fitted is merely a ill thought out start to addressing it. But it is a situation which needs addressing because these 3 combined do effectively ruin gate camps. And for the guy saying hunt your prey, I can pretty much tell you that a large majority of PVP (ganking is still PVP ) happens at gates in 0.0 space. We catch people at belts a lot but most of time they see Local channel jump up and off to the ultra safe spot they go. Im off topic because my beef isnt just with dual MWD , its with this combined with multiple WCS and Insta jumps. Please if you are going to reply to my post with adapt or die I pity you. Im just trying to thrash out ideas to address this ultra safe travel and consentual PVP era which currently reigns supreme. Not to fall back on RL but do you know how messengers were sent to break blockades or forts that were surrounded? They picked the fastest horse and a good rider and sent him out in the middle of the night. This guy went solo but he was 'kitted' for the best speed possible and used the cover of darkness. Now in eve we obviously have very little geographical variables, turret damages go straight through solid objects etc... So what are the variables in eve? Modules.
Hematic	Posted - 2004.07.27 16:47:00 - [150] Originally by: Estios Thanks Kayo, I thought it was a quality idea too . It kinda got lost though as usual in the ever so repetitive 'Oh look at the BS pilots whine' or my favourite 'Adapt or die' posts If people wanna utilise speed for PVP then they should be able too, I totally respect people who think outside the box. BUT do you really think its a fair use of game mechanics to waltz through blockades in a lone Battleship by fitting 2 or 3 MWD (in case of emergency) and 6,7 or 8 WCS and using Insta jumps ?? My idea of limiting WCS based on number of MWD fitted is merely a ill thought out start to addressing it. But it is a situation which needs addressing because these 3 combined do effectively ruin gate camps. And for the guy saying hunt your prey, I can pretty much tell you that a large majority of PVP (ganking is still PVP ) happens at gates in 0.0 space. We catch people at belts a lot but most of time they see Local channel jump up and off to the ultra safe spot they go. Im off topic because my beef isnt just with dual MWD , its with this combined with multiple WCS and Insta jumps. Please if you are going to reply to my post with adapt or die I pity you. Im just trying to thrash out ideas to address this ultra safe travel and consentual PVP era which currently reigns supreme. Not to fall back on RL but do you know how messengers were sent to break blockades or forts that were surrounded? They picked the fastest horse and a good rider and sent him out in the middle of the night. This guy went solo but he was 'kitted' for the best speed possible and used the cover of darkness. Now in eve we obviously have very little geographical variables, turret damages go straight through solid objects etc... So what are the variables in eve? Modules.

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