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Tank CEO Caldari Dark Cartel	Posted - 2009.01.11 09:27:00 - [31] Edited by: Tank CEO on 11/01/2009 09:28:14 Originally by: flashfreaking New Vote: Is Tank CEO senile: (I vote NO) Is this the original Tank CEO: (I vote NO) Thank you for your time Prove it. Teamspeak Rumble Recording! Vote for homepage
Tank CEO Caldari Dark Cartel	Posted - 2009.01.11 09:34:00 - [32] This is my final attempt to get something to happen with caldari. But being that they are now rolled as anti-suppost classs ships / ECM in fleet battles and ment for long range. I can do nothing about it and will just have to repsec into turrets. Just for your information I killed macro haulers because I killed so many, they would pay me ransom every time they jumped through the gate, netting me a hefty profit of 1 billion isk and I was payed weekly to not shoot specific targets. I am the ultimate badass pirate that will find a way to bring chaos to your order. You will be in chaos. I am the beginning, the end, the one who is many. Teamspeak Rumble Recording! Vote for homepage
Pearljammer 5657	Posted - 2009.01.11 11:09:00 - [33] Well im trying to dedicate some time to gunnery but I think missles need tweaking, yea there are alot of caldari but damn, I want to pvp in my missle boats. Please CCP boost missles, or at least make target painters a high slot fitting.
Captain Pompous	Posted - 2009.01.11 11:12:00 - [34] Originally by: Tank CEO This is my final attempt to get something to happen with caldari. But being that they are now rolled as anti-suppost classs ships / ECM in fleet battles and ment for long range. I can do nothing about it and will just have to repsec into turrets. Just for your information I killed macro haulers because I killed so many, they would pay me ransom every time they jumped through the gate, netting me a hefty profit of 1 billion isk and I was payed weekly to not shoot specific targets. I am the ultimate badass pirate that will find a way to bring chaos to your order. You will be in chaos. I am the beginning, the end, the one who is many. quieten down there, and if i were you i'd start looking for the ebay receipt to get your money back - your dignity is lying around you like a pile of torn-up betting slips \o/
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.11 11:28:00 - [35] Armor > Alloy of sorts (depending on what you use), that can or not, be radar deflective etc. It's only mass. Shield > energy, shows up like a xmas tree on radars. Armor ships should be slow, but more stealthy. Shield ships should be faster, but glow like torches.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.01.11 11:29:00 - [36] We cannot have XL shield extenders. Would make passive regen ships too powerful. Mass and agility are usually a WAY WAY worse penalty than signature radius. Sig radius is a large penalty to ships like minmatar that rely on not being hit. That been said. I think the penalty should be changed to percentage of signature radius with a reduction on the base number. For example LSEII be made 15% penalty. What would result. They would not completely screw smaller ships defenses on moderate setups. But when you start to build up like 4 of them on top of each other you end with a HUGE sig radius. That woudl enable moderade buffering with almost no penalties. But huge penalties for full out SE tank.
Grek Forto 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.01.11 11:33:00 - [37] Originally by: Tank CEO P.S. DIE to all you a-holes that say I ebayed my account.
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.11 11:56:00 - [38] No the aren't. - low EFT-DPS ... but no other ship can be compared to the mission-speed with a Raven/CNR/Golem! If you like high bountys ever 30 min you MUST fly them :(. Perfect damage-types do to missiles. - tank isn't in line do to X-Large .... where the hec are X-Large-Armor reppers???? - tanking isn't in line at all ... where is our PASSIVE-ARMOR-TANK ??? No, not just buffer, CAPLESS SELVE REPAIR! - worst ship bonus? NO! "10% less cap usage for weapons" <- THAT'S the worst!
Inertial The Suicide Kings True Reign	Posted - 2009.01.11 11:57:00 - [39] Large Shield Extender II: 165 pg 1600 mm Rolled Tungsten plate: 500 pg
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.11 12:04:00 - [40] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 11/01/2009 12:04:53 Oh and I forgot passive-tank-Drake. Maybe the only BC that is able to fit enough tank for level 4 missions while doing still enough damage to finish level 4th. (PS: I know, it's slow, but it's doable ... which other BC can do it?) Combined with the fact that you need far less time to skill large-launchers-T2 compared to large-turrets-T2. Additional need far less SP to get a accepteble T2-passive-shild-tank compared to a T2-active-armor-tank.
Xoth Freefall Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.11 12:13:00 - [41] Armor plates reduce the speed bonus you get from ABs and MWDs. Caldari isn't the only one effected by this. I tend to passive shield tank most of my smaller minmatar ships.
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.11 12:35:00 - [42] Minmatar, good excample. Passive-Shild-Tank Hurrican >>>> Active-Armor-Tank Hurrican vor PvE And that's with 6 LOW and just 4 MED slots. Even some Amarr Ships are far better shild-tanked then Armor (Arbitrator for excample).
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.01.11 12:51:00 - [43] Originally by: Trader20 The funny thing is if you took drones out of the fight the torp raven does more dps with 3x range against a mega. So Caldari bs-level pvp is just fine. Yes, and if you took missiles out the fight, the megathron would outdamage a dreadnought against a POS. Because clearly, when you ignore part of a ships weapon systems, you get a balanced comparison. -- 249km locking?
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.11 13:02:00 - [44] Originally by: Tank CEO 1600mm Plate: 4,200HP - Penalty - Increased Mass - Slower Acceleration, Less Agility (lol, big whoop) Yes. HUGE whoop, especially after QR. Less agility and slower acceleration = slower to warp = you get caught and then you die. And you hold your gang up, and then they die. The sig bonus on the extenders speed up the locking process, making them easier to catch as well, but not to the same extent, and the tacklers still have to react as fast. Quote: Large Shield Extender: 2,625 HP, 25m Sig Bonus (on smaller ships, thats a big penalty) So is the additional 2,750 tonnes and 500MW powergrid lost for a 1600mm plate. Heck, at least you can fit LSEs on small ship and still have room for something more than a civilian gatling. It's almost as if they have designed the stuff to work with different size ships… Quote: Anything faster then 93m/s (Hvy Assault Missile) dmg is reduced ontop of the sig radius dmg reduction (while turrets can pop frigates (medium weapon pulse for example) with a just a web on him or not having a transversal velocity). Eh… I think you underestimate how fast a frigate can orbit, even while webbed, after QR. Quote: Caldari missile boats have the worst ship bonuses ever in my opinion, specifically the dmg bonus to just kinetic missiles, which all my fits, I have the highest kinetic resistance and in real pvp, you don't change out your missiles to the best dmging one unless your doing a 1v1. Oh, you mean like the Gallente ships that get Hybrid Weapon bonuses? You know those weapons that do… (wait for it) Kinetic/Thermal damage — generally the two highest resists for both shield and armour? Quote: Caldari ships are incapible to fit lock down modules because 1 or 2 medium slots used for a afterburner/warp dis is devastating to our tank, and CCP has made changes to cadlari long ago to preventthem from fitting a proper armor tank set up. And armour tanking ships are incapable of fitting damage mods. So it evens out. Quote: IS CALDARI MISSILE BOATS BALANCED? ARE SHIELD EXTENDERS BALANCED COMPARED TO 1600MM PLATES? Yes. Mu. In that order. 1600mm plates have no equivalent mod for shields. In fact there are tons of non-equivalences across both tanking mod groups: Why do armour plates come in six varieties (50mm, 100mm, 200mm, 400mm, 800mm, 1600mm) and extenders only in four (micro, small, medium, large)? Unfair! Why do extenders also improve your regen, and plates do not? Unfair! Why do shields have boost amps and passive regen mods and armour reps do not? Unfair! Why do armour resist mods come in three flavours (hardeners, energized plates, resist plates) and shields only in two (hardeners and resist amps)? Unfair! Originally by: Trader20 Originally by: Vaal Erit Where's my XL armor repairer? Active all resistance armor hardening module? Armor repairer boost amplifier module? XL armor rep: good point, their should be an XL armor rep All res armor hrdnr: EANM Armor rep booster: rigs:nanopump EANMs aren't active, but then again, why don't shields have a passive all-resists mod? Unfair! Nanopumps are kind of similar to boost amps, yes, but shilds also have rigs that duplicate this function — double-boost amps! Unfair! ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.11 13:06:00 - [45] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Oh and I forgot passive-tank-Drake. Maybe the only BC that is able to fit enough tank for level 4 missions while doing still enough damage to finish level 4th. (PS: I know, it's slow, but it's doable ... which other BC can do it?) Myrmidon. Same strength while passive-tanked, and can put up an armour tank that is only slightly less weak and run around with AB on full tilt, thereby nullifying large parts of any missiles and Battleship-turret damage… all while doing more DPS than the Drake at longer ranges. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers	Posted - 2009.01.11 13:16:00 - [46] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 11/01/2009 13:16:38 Originally by: Jack Jombardo Minmatar, clueless example. Passive-Shild-Tank Hurrican >>>> Active-Armor-Tank Hurrican vor PvE And that's with 6 LOW and just 4 MED slots. Even some Amarr Ships are far better shild-tanked then Armor (Arbitrator for excample). Fixed it for you. Hurricane without gyros... :facepalm: Shield tanked arbitrator? WTF... go away
Repelsteeltje	Posted - 2009.01.11 13:24:00 - [47] I dunno, i like caldari, Good ships: Drake, Cerberus, Raven, Scorpion, Falcon, hawk, crow, manticore... Yeah pretty good in my book.
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.11 14:15:00 - [48] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 11/01/2009 14:16:48 Quote: Armor plates reduce the speed bonus you get from ABs and MWDs. Yes but Caldari ships has always slower and less agility than any ship of all races, so same with plates I often see fleet-fitted Megathrons go more fast than my Rokh in sub-warp speed. Quote: We cannot have XL shield extenders. Would make passive regen ships too powerful. Depends of the fitting requirement. CCP can make XL Extenders hard to fit that we can only fit one in one BS, but this would free one med slot on Caldari BSs for a small module like Target Painter for exemple. Quote: - tanking isn't in line at all ... where is our PASSIVE-ARMOR-TANK ??? No, not just buffer, CAPLESS SELVE REPAIR! ... Always this argument ... Just check the counter-parts (Yes, we have it with a passive tank) of a Shield Power Relay, and also how work passive reload of Shield/Cap (cf Peak Reload), then think two minutes how this work in situation, before come back and admit that it is not so unfair against armor tankers. ___________________ CCP deserves only disrespect and hatred for all nerfs since Empyrean Age.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.11 14:25:00 - [49] I'd love some xl-shield extenders as long as the fittings made it impossible to effectively fit it on anything smaller that a bs. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2009.01.11 15:05:00 - [50] Originally by: Pearljammer 5657 yea there are alot of caldari but damn, I want to pvp in my missle boats The number of characters of any particular race means nothing. I started as Caldari based on the fluff at the character creation screen. I had no idea what missiles were like compared to blasters or knew what a blaster was. As for alts that are caldari specced how many are used for mission grinding? How many were created to pvp as Caldari? I'd bet that the bulk of alts would be for grinding missions, not pvp. PVE does not equal PVP and the 2 should be seperate. Buff the other race's PVE ability for all I care. I'm caldari and gal specced with slightly more sp in caldari. its obvious to me that if im going to solo im going with a gallante ship and if im going in a fleet then maybe i could use caldari ** since others are going to tackle and i can fire from range. but in a solo fight massive range means nothing unless you either get a stupid target that rushes you and does not run or you can instapop them. What people are ignoring is that long range is nice but means nothing while soloing. sure we can use our lows for damage mods but even a full rack isn't going to put us near the dps of a blaster boat without a damage mod. so the argument of "armor tanks= no damage mods" is negated by their naturally higher dps then an augmented missile based dps. gal can have naturally higher dps, tackle,mwd and a tank. caldari must sacrifice tank in order to get tackle and an mwd. their lows full of damage mods can only get them near, not greater dps then the short range ship. Add in the recent missile changes requiring caldari to use a target painter and there is virtually nothing left of the mid/tanking slots on caldari ships. The only draw back of blasters would be their short range. However that is negated by an mwd and drones. Last I checked a web doesn't have 20km for its range. There is no web variation, no small,medium and large or high powered short, average strength medium range and light strength long range webs. no scripts to offer flexibility either. If a gal and caldari ship both with tackle gear are facing off the caldari only has seconds to enjoy his lower damage, long range before the gal ship is in web range. once in web range they are BOTH in range and the one with the mwd is eventually going to close the gap bringing his naturally higher damage into the fight. Until then hes going to be rocking the target with his drone advantage. MOST caldari ships are not Drakes. That being said there is only a Drake and the rest are something else. Its rather moronic to believe because 1 low,low dps bc that can tank well but nothing else should condemn the rest of the ships of that race to mediocrity. "Great i can tank all this ** but can't kill a damn thing! Even if i do enough damage hes just going to fly off!" is likely to bring up memories for any drake pilots out there. I'd like to see more selection for shield tanking similar to armor tanking. But tanking is just one of the problems that caldari must face while soloing. I'd much rather see better ship bonuses , primarily the bonus to kinetic missiles. If the caldari are missile fiends why would they limit themselves to just kinetics? This makes as much sense as gal bonuses suggesting that only thermal drones and tungsten loaded blasters receive damage bonuses. It is my experience in games that when people say "oh they are good in groups at least" means people are nicely saying "they suck". It was true in another game and its true in EVE. The only way it would be "balanced" is if the good solo ships SUCKED in a group, somehow receiving negative "bonuses" when in a fleet. Also, mixing 2 races does not mean it changes solo play. simply put there should be solo and fleet ships in all races or at least enough mod diversity to allow fair fights to be possible. Hams were a step in the right direction but we need more!
Spectre80 Caldari The Knights Templar Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.01.11 15:45:00 - [51] i say no for both. it seems ccp does all it can to keep people who fly caldari ships only to use em to do missions/ratting atm. definedly needs balancing. please CCP.
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.11 15:48:00 - [52] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 11/01/2009 13:16:38 Originally by: Jack Jombardo Minmatar, clueless example. Passive-Shild-Tank Hurrican >>>> Active-Armor-Tank Hurrican vor PvE And that's with 6 LOW and just 4 MED slots. Even some Amarr Ships are far better shild-tanked then Armor (Arbitrator for excample). Fixed it for you. Hurricane without gyros... :facepalm: Shield tanked arbitrator? WTF... go away Even if you don't like it, it works very well! And shild-tank Hurrican with 3 Gyros in low is even a better tank then a armor-tanked one perfect for any level 3 mission and 0.0 ratting. Close-minder like you allways just see dam PvP - but that's only A SMALL PART of EvE! PvE does not need any wep/scram/mwd in med. [Arbitrator, New Setup 1] [low] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II [med] Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II [rig] Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I 262 FULL PASSIVE omni pur T1/T2 fitting No, I do not care if this is any good for PvP! It works very well for PvE and that's what it's used for! Same for Hurrican, max 490 PASSIVE omni-deffens with shild-tank. Still 215 omni-deff with 3*Gyros. Now, if anyone ask for shild-tank-buff ... please tell me HOW the hell I get 490 deffens while armor-tanking the Hurrican just with T1/T2 stuff! If you like a shild-tank-buff ... Well, first make armor-tanking as strong as shild allready IS ;).
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.11 16:46:00 - [53] Originally by: Tank CEO IS CALDARI MISSILE BOATS BALANCED? ARE SHIELD EXTENDERS BALANCED COMPARED TO 1600MM PLATES? Yes they are. In PVE caldari tank >>>> everyone else. So in pvp shield tank suck. In pvp : why do you think Matars did tanked speed in pvp ? Because they could, and shield tanking suck. Now both suck. And especially for us, who have one medslot less than you. Look to titan to see the philosophy : - Amarr : cap bonus, 8 tank slots - Caldari : shield bonus, 8 tank slots - Gallente : armor bonus, 7 tank slots - Minmatr : "no lag" bonus, 7 tank slots Your race tanks as much as any other race, if not more. Show numbers, I'll show Matari's. Your ships tank a lot more than matars, beleive me.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:09:00 - [54] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 11/01/2009 17:14:13 Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 11/01/2009 13:16:38 Originally by: Jack Jombardo Minmatar, clueless example. Passive-Shild-Tank Hurrican >>>> Active-Armor-Tank Hurrican vor PvE And that's with 6 LOW and just 4 MED slots. Even some Amarr Ships are far better shild-tanked then Armor (Arbitrator for excample). Fixed it for you. Hurricane without gyros... :facepalm: Shield tanked arbitrator? WTF... go away If you take the brute tank numbers, for example for pve, he's right. * Passive All skill 5 : low- 6x shield power relay med- 2x lse 2 2x invul 2 rig- 3x core defence -> tank 768dps, for 11m16 * Active armor low- 2x MAR2 2x EANM 2 1x 1600 rolled 1x damage control rig- 3x nanobot -> tanks 344 for 1m11 and can fit enough ewar to pvp + med electro cap booster+800 (4m35 with cap boosters in theory but size of cargo is an issue). 344 is 3 pvp fregate, not all skills 5. If you look max dps, the hurricane on par other tiers btw, since he lost a turret (it was suposed to be a gank ship... It was nerfed and other weren't. nvm CCP ). It can't tank as much as other bc tier 2. Fetchez la vache !
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:27:00 - [55] Edited by: James Lyrus on 11/01/2009 17:28:52 I think missiles got a bit too much 'adjustment' last patch actually. I quite like the general principle that MWD sig bloom offsets the speedboost some what, but I find it rather saddening that a heavy missile won't hit a cruiser for full damage, and HAMs are even worse. Especially as you can't use Guided missile precision/implants/boosters on HAMs. That's like ... making motion prediction only apply to long range guns. Lacking a 'large plate' sized shield extender is somewhat bothersome though. An XL Extender I think would do quite nicelyk, provided it's fittings were suitably large - (By which I mean almost impossible to fit on a BC)
Mire Stoude Cash Money Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:34:00 - [56] Did you forget that shields regenerate without the help of any repairer and to repair them in a station costs the shield tanker nothing?
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:35:00 - [57] Originally by: Sky Marshal Edited by: Sky Marshal on 11/01/2009 14:34:37 Yes but Caldari ships are always slower and less agility than any ship of all races, so same with plates I often see fleet-fitted Megathrons go more fast than my Rokh. Bolded part is wrong. Caldari got their agility boosted about a year ago iirc. They are among the top places when it comes to agility.
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:16:00 - [58] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 11/01/2009 18:24:37 Originally by: Mire Stoude Did you forget that shields regenerate without the help of any repairer and to repair them in a station costs the shield tanker nothing? Did you forget that shields don't have a buffer with some resists ? And, do you know how much it regenerates really ? On a non-passive ship like the Rokh, with a standard fleet fit and according to EFT, it is less than 30 Hp/s, at peak level (~30% Shield) so less if you have or less or more, like 70% Shield for exemple. Generally, ingame, I don't even take care of this parameter as it changes nothing. The influence of the passive regen is over-estimated by armor tankers. Quote: Bolded part is wrong. Caldari got their agility boosted about a year ago iirc. They are among the top places when it comes to agility. Thanks for this information. I will check this. Quote: If you like a shild-tank-buff ... Well, first make armor-tanking as strong as shild allready IS ;). Woah, a real EFT Warrior.................. Just leave EFT one minute and try to think before post this kind of fail-fit please, as fit 3 Rigs of 12M Each on a Cruiser can be serious. Or, try to do the same thing, with the Caracal, and don't forget drones... Let me guess : 50% less DPS, one medium drone only, no able to fit all launcher slots (well, with Assault, you can, but less DPS than Heavys), and same less defence. At least, it will probably have more EHP... The problem is not Shield on Hurricane, Myrmidon or others ships with many low slots. Just read again the topic.
Hatt0ri Hanz0	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:22:00 - [59] Originally by: Vaal Erit Oh wow. What an unintelligent, noob post. Where's my XL armor repairer? Active all resistance armor hardening module? Armor repairer boost amplifier module? WHY DOESN'T MY ARMOR PASSIVELY RECHARGE? I'M TANK CEO, I DON'T KNOW **** ABOUT GAME MECHANICS. CAPS AT THE END OF A POST MAKES ME LOOK KEWL. this this this this
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:25:00 - [60] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 11/01/2009 18:27:39 Originally by: Sky Marshal Quote: - tanking isn't in line at all ... where is our PASSIVE-ARMOR-TANK ??? No, not just buffer, CAPLESS SELVE REPAIR! ... Always this argument ... Just check the counter-parts (Yes, we have it with a passive tank) of a Shield Power Relay, and also how work passive reload of Shield/Cap (cf Peak Reload), then think two minutes how this work in situation, before come back and admit that it is not so unfair against armor tankers. Armor tanking isn't inline at all. But as a minmatarr, I don't care, I have all skills to tank. Speed (with elite skills), Shield (medium), Armor (medium), ehp (elite), honor (elite), everything. You know me in pvp, sky. I lost a lot of ships and kill nothing. Passive tanks are usefull for pve only. There, they are usefull. Now, for pve purposes (which makes a lot in the race-to-isk-to-pvp), try to find a fit than can absorb 500 dps using medium armor modules on any ship. You can't. Passive shield tanks are at 700dps...

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