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Making ISK....Way too easy?

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B1FF	Posted - 2009.01.12 14:05:00 - [61] Originally by: Warpfactor 9 As a new player, there are things that concern me greatly, and yes, I agree with you my early impression is making ISK is far too easy. I am greatly concerned about the buying ISK for real money. I doubt all players get caught. Also, we all should be concerned about those using macros to mine. Unless CCP finds and bans these players, the game will suffer as people quit because of these cheats and exploits. New players face 40,000 others currently signed on and most of them quickly went to high end ships. Some of the fun is missed when you start out slowly and have to build up to something bigger and better. So, I agree, it does seem like things come too fast and too easy--much of the early phase fun in the building up and growing phase is missed. This is especially true when your friend or co-worker gives you 100 million ISK as a starter fund, which is pocket change to many veterans. The problem here is of perceptions. The news think BSes are killer. An experienced player knows that a well skilled medium ship will beat a low skilled large ship hands down. Stop trying to "level". This game doesn't have it. Learn how to fly. If you're against buying isk then you need to quit or start yelling at CCP since they sell isk.
Bit Steen	Posted - 2009.01.12 15:09:00 - [62] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker It is easily earned and easily lost. In the end it all balances out. There is no more to say
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2009.01.12 15:46:00 - [63] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 12/01/2009 05:54:21 Originally by: Enthral As I said, if you don't PvP, you don't have a proper isk sink so it is going to seem like isk is too easy to get. If you PvP--even if you're good at it--you're going to go through isk like crazy. And goodness help you if you suck. ;-) PvP isn't an ISK sink ù it's an item sink (well, combat is, at least ù market and industry PvP have some unavoidable ISK sinks built into it). Combat doesn't remove money from the system ù in fact, it adds money if the ships are insured. It doesn't matter how much your ship and fittings costs, because you don't lose any money when it's destroyed, only property. The ISK has long sinced changed hands and is now in the possession of someone elseà and then the fairy ISK-mother descends and creates some more ISK out of nowhere to give to you. The only ISK sink in combat is the cost of clones, and that sink is (technically) optional. I really want to know what kind of ships you're flying. Suicide gank battleships in hi sec? I have 300mil HACs and they blow up occassionally. I got like 100mil in my wallet and most of kills I get earn me practically +/-0 ISK. I have to make my money trading stuff in hi sec. Explain how I would gain from my ship blowing up :D
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 16:02:00 - [64] No, but buying ISK by GTC selling is much to easy! Lot of people I know bought 10+ GTC, sold em for ISK and bought Capitals from it or tons of PvP-ships. If I then tell em, that I can not afford to lose many ships in PvP they advice me "man, just sell some GTCs" - which I refuse to do!
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.12 16:06:00 - [65] Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn I really want to know what kind of ships you're flying. Suicide gank battleships in hi sec? I have 300mil HACs and they blow up occassionally. I got like 100mil in my wallet and most of kills I get earn me practically +/-0 ISK. I have to make my money trading stuff in hi sec. Explain how I would gain from my ship blowing up :D You're confusing "sink" and "faucet" (system-wide changes) with "loss" and "profit" (changes in your wallet). An ISK sink is something that removes money from the economy as a whole. An ISK faucet is something that adds money to the economy. This has nothing to do with what route they take as they pass through your personal wallet. When you buy your 300mil HAC and then have it blown up, what happens is that you transfer money from your wallet to someone elses wallet (an ISK loss for you, no change to the total economy) and then your ship* blows up (has nothing to do with ISK — this is an item loss… or possibly an item transformation as your ship is turned into salvage), and then (possibly) the fairy ISK-mother conjures up some new ISK out of nowhere to pay for your insurance and dumps it in your wallet (an ISK profit for you, money is added to the economy). From your perspective, the whole affair is probably a loss since the profit from the insurance doesn't cover the loss from the transfer. However, from the perspective of the economy as a whole, no ISK is ever lost during this process — quite the opposite: ISK is added when the insurance pays out money that doesn't come from another player. It is only the system-wide changes — the sinks and faucets — that create "too much" or "too little" ISK. Everything else just moves the cash around. Technically not entirely true since there's sales tax, but close enough… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki*
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2009.01.12 16:08:00 - [66] It's pretty funny how people think that missions are the only way people make vast amounts of money in empire. Removing missions from highsec will do nothing, risk vs. reward is a myth. I've been making from my T2 blueprints for years now, and now I'm into capital ship production. There really is no limit to the amount you can reinvest in manufacturing safe in highsec.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.12 16:59:00 - [67] Originally by: Gamer4liff It's pretty funny how people think that missions are the only way people make vast amounts of money in empire. Depends on what they mean. If they actually mean “make” ISK, then sure, there are other ways. If they mean “create” ISK, they're definitely right — the rewards and bounties from missions create far more ISK than ratting and NPC buy orders.
Jesslyn Daggererux Gallente SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.01.12 17:32:00 - [68] in 2 months ive made about a bil from pvp and the spoils of it. i lost 1 unrigged BS. ive had in that time about 80 kills (includes pods), some ransoms, and some faction/deadspace loot from kills. the only non pvp related money making i did was running maybe 20 missions durring that whole time just to get a level 3 locate agent and a couple static plexes when theres no one to shoot. oh, and i scanned some missions sometimes to salvage. once i got lucky and arrived just as a gravy raven died and got 3 dg launchers. all of this was in high sec and mostly through wars. theres so much isk to be made out there. i wouldnt call it too easy, i definitely work for it. i think i work an acceptable amount.
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2009.01.12 17:56:00 - [69] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Mara Rinn Edited by: Mara Rinn on 11/01/2009 23:15:23 Originally by: Aleyra Mel With all those moons, minerals, complexes, etc etc, anyone thinks that it has become way too easy to make big money in EVE? Moons and asteroids don't make ISK. Getting a battleship was hard four years ago because there weren't many people building them. The economy is currently in deflation, which means that there is an oversupply of goods. If there was too much ISK, the prices would be going up! Originally by: Bellum Eternus Remove 90% of the profit from high sec mission running. Problem solved. What problem? The volume of ISK generated per day is too much. That problem. Why is it too much? As most people try to do, they compare Eve missions from 'now and then'. If missions/isk generated the same amounts it was 'back then' then Eve would fall on its face like this argument. Eve is growing, with more isk comes more ships/war/trade and let us not forget, fun.
Hacra Minmatar Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:45:00 - [70] Is money making too easy, no. Why? For players like me who like to do bit of everything and not really specialize in any type of money grinding, would it be level 4 missions, mining, piracy, 0.0 ratting, manufacturing or moon mining. The amount of income is just right, if you put your mind into some of these areas you can raise decent amount of isk to meet your goals, would it be buying of battleship or carrier, blueprint(s), etc. What comes easy also goes easy, biggest amount of isk i have had in this game is 1,5bil isk (what i currently have) and i know that money is very soon spent to various things. And the circle starts again. Imho if money gain would be slower/worse it would kill certain player base who do not want to specialize in grinding of isk. And those who do "grind" their wallet to be fat, it is just fine, that's business and also is what this game is all about, isk.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:56:00 - [71] Originally by: Vabjekf All i know is that this character is making much more money doing level 1s than my first character did doing level 1s several years ago. This cant be good. Maybe because this character has from x4 to x10 times the SP of the character you had 4 years ago and all of them in the right places to do missions? And because you know what traversal is, what missiles to use and so on? Experience serve you there a lot.
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:14:00 - [72] Originally by: Enthral Originally by: Xtreem its not too easy to make isk, its too easy to save it, they need to bring out more isk sinks that dont suck! I smell a carebear. background check prior to calling me that please! and i was talking about isk sinks that all can use, for example carebears with there super shiney ships etc
Takashi X2	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:59:00 - [73] I thinks that most people whining about isk being too easy to makes are teh ones who dont make very much adn as ****y cuz the nice complex stuff doubled in price in the past 8 months... that being said if you really have too much isk come lose some in the channel Eve online Hold'em id be more than happy to win some isk from you to support my 0.0 pew pewing! Also that being said i make about a bil every 3 weeks and sadly my wallet usually sits at 200mil or so..... but i have fun watching my isk go boom!
mechtech Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.13 00:16:00 - [74] Isk is too easy to make, it's not the same game I started playing 3 years ago. To be honest, I play many fantasy MMOs that have harsher death penalties now. Insurance needs to go away. A typical BS costs between 25-50m to replace. That takes an hour to replace with lvl 4s, mining, or ratting. When I started, I remember that 100m was a lot of isk. By the looks of it, isk is worth about 1/10 as much as it was 3 years ago. I've said this before, but the cost of death and loss in eve is now linked to timesinks. It takes time to get a new ship, resupply, ect. I think that this should be lessened and the monetary loss should be increased. Anyway, I think insurance is the issue. If ships cost more to lose, then there is more of a reason to fly the under used classes like BCs into combat, and variety would be increased.
Davina Braben	Posted - 2009.01.13 00:26:00 - [75] Making ISK is ass dull. The less time you have to spend grinding, the more time you can spend pewing. The more time you can spend pewing the more entertaining EVE is. Who cares what the balance is for the other end of the game?
Spurty Caldari Technologic Dance	Posted - 2009.01.13 00:41:00 - [76] Anyone got the stats on the numbers of people in / out of high sec? The gap has to be closing. I've been running missions for about 2 months now, think after costs of running missions have been stripped from profit, I have made about 40mill :-/ Not everyone here can play 23/7, making isk is not simple for the casual player. Blob a fully faction fitted ship and loot it and you'll usually walk off with more than 40mill pay out. 2months of pay out in 2mins of pew pew. Lots of ways to make isk, all of the good agents were moved into low sec recently, so its actually a lot harder to get the quality agents for mission runners. Always going to be Zero 'allure' to running missions in low sec for the majority of EVE subscribers. Just a guess here, but surely the mean skill points / number of players of EVE are passed needing 250k isk skills ever again. The Game is actually trying to keep pace with the needs of its inhabitants. Cap skill books aren't cheap. Making then unreachable is a bad business move. Ratting in 0.0 with 300 people waiting at gates to blob anyone coming in is the fastest and easier way to get rich in eve and turn your -4.3 standing to -1.99 so you don't lose ships to faction police while the game freezes your gui so you can't click to warp :-/ ($300 later in CPU upgrades, sure hope its fixed this). Leave high sec mission runners alone, they are usually their for a reason (i.e. might only get to play eve for 3 hours a week!). Go play with the other work shy people and bother them, they cry more when you pop em anyway as they demand their billion isk ship is invincible ;0 To make a mistake is Human. To make a REALLY BIG mistake, takes a computer
Vibora BR	Posted - 2009.01.13 01:38:00 - [77] Edited by: Vibora BR on 13/01/2009 01:38:22 Did I lose anything? Making ISKs is a pain in the a....s when you are a PVPer. If you think you are too rich, come fight in FW and you'll see where your ISKs goes.
Zaruda Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.13 05:20:00 - [78] My problem with it has always been the whole immersion that is lost with how easy it is to earn ISK. There is cavalier attitude people have towards their ships. Disposable so it takes away from the excitement. I can arm up a Vexor and run out into 0.0 and make a few hundred million in a day. Think about that. Spend another couple of days and we get into the billions. Multiply that by X amount of players and you could be talking trillions. Bring that into the story and imagine what could be done? Make more money than the Amarr Empire and others. Does that make sense to anyone? The whole thing took away a real sense of accomplishment for me. I got sucked into this hole once. I'm pretty glad I got myself out of it because it totally spoiled my Eve experience for 3+ years. I'll never get back that sense of accomplishment I once felt going from a frigate to a cruiser and the 'fear' of losing it in a random encounter but I found other ways now to get some measure of the excitement back.
Space Pinata	Posted - 2009.01.13 08:53:00 - [79] Originally by: Ivana Drake If not for Insurance we would be seeing prices for your average BS skyrocket imo No. Just, no. Prices of battleships would drop from the lack of insurance. The only thing which keeps them from deflating too much is the fact that people would buy them, insure them, and self destruct them if they were cheap enough to make that course of action profitable. Without a reimbursement on battleships, people would not be willing to pay as much. Also, insurance creates more isk. More isk = isk is worth less. Less valuable isk = prices go up.. which means insurance RAISES prices, not lowers them.
Ko Shimin Minmatar Independent Terran Empire Terran Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:13:00 - [80] High sec missions and mining are the only way of decently making isk in highsec apart from griefing small corps asking for isk not to kill them anymore.. In 0.0 you have: - better roid belts - great exploration posibilities. - lucrative ratting - can engage enemies with no worry about losing sec status. 0.0 player claimed space is mostly unavailable to highsec players. You cannot go there unless in good standings with lots of people, otherwise you lose your ships fast. Most of the 0.0 Alliances have a closed door policy, not even recruiting anymore. As a highsec player, your chances of enjoying 0.0 space are very small, and your chances in joining one of the big alliances is even smaller. So, nerfing isk making in highsec would create even a greater imbalance between highsec and 0.0 regions. Highsec is not Heaven, it's just a place were you can gain SP in relative safety to a point. After that point, if you can't make 0.0 your home, you just die slowly as the best of the game content is unavailable to you...
Rennion	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:23:00 - [81] T2 is dirt cheap compared to the early days of my play time. Personally I would like to see a return to thsoe days, pvp only costs a lot of isk if you die a lot. So if you die a lot you should be flying T1, not T2 fitted T2 hulls and throw them away like left over food wrappers because you can make 20mil an hour in high sec. **es me off that you can make that sort of isk in safety, while on "zombie mode" grinding missions and downloading **.
Ko Shimin Minmatar Independent Terran Empire Terran Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:31:00 - [82] Originally by: Rennion T2 is dirt cheap compared to the early days of my play time. Personally I would like to see a return to thsoe days, pvp only costs a lot of isk if you die a lot. So if you die a lot you should be flying T1, not T2 fitted T2 hulls and throw them away like left over food wrappers because you can make 20mil an hour in high sec. **es me off that you can make that sort of isk in safety, while on "zombie mode" grinding missions and downloading **. You call 25m isk per hour a lot??? That kind of isk is made when you hasve good Sp and nice fitted ship. I've spent my time in 0.0. and the only real dangerous moments were when I had to ferry my 0.0 loot to highsec. Now cloaked transports make this easier than ever. You call 25m isk per hour a lot??? How about a faction spawn in the belts that gave me 2.000.000 isk and some 40m isk in mods, a radar site completed that gave me some 20m isk in npc bounty, some 60m in exploration stuff i got from that radar site and again a dread spawn in that rasdar site, that gave me 8m isk in bounty and another 250m in mods, all within 1 hour.. HELL YEAH!!!! NERF HIGHSEC PLS!!!!
Rennion	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:42:00 - [83] Edited by: Rennion on 13/01/2009 09:43:57 Originally by: Ko Shimin Originally by: Rennion T2 is dirt cheap compared to the early days of my play time. Personally I would like to see a return to thsoe days, pvp only costs a lot of isk if you die a lot. So if you die a lot you should be flying T1, not T2 fitted T2 hulls and throw them away like left over food wrappers because you can make 20mil an hour in high sec. **es me off that you can make that sort of isk in safety, while on "zombie mode" grinding missions and downloading . You call 25m isk per hour a lot??? That kind of isk is made when you hasve good Sp and nice fitted ship. I've spent my time in 0.0. and the only real dangerous moments were when I had to ferry my 0.0 loot to highsec. Now cloaked transports make this easier than ever. You call 25m isk per hour a lot??? How about a faction spawn in the belts that gave me 2.000.000 isk and some 40m isk in mods, a radar site completed that gave me some 20m isk in npc bounty, some 60m in exploration stuff i got from that radar site and again a dread spawn in that rasdar site, that gave me 8m isk in bounty and another 250m in mods, all within 1 hour.. HELL YEAH!!!! NERF HIGHSEC PLS!!!! How about you do it all semi afk watching , 23/7 if you so choose? I'm sure you find all those things consistantly, within the hour on the hour every hour. Riiiiight What I am complaining about is the utter ease of making isk with zero risk. 0.0 should be more but it is barely an edge. Why risk flying in nullsec when my little raven alt here can be alt tabbed generating 20mil an hour while I'm on my main doing whatever... Edit for perspective: It costs me about 20~30mil to replace a fully T2 fitted battleship. That means I can lose a T2 fitted battleship every hour without breaking a sweat. Pretty ty if you ask me, hard core pvp for real yo' losing stuff hurts... Oh no, it really doesn't at all except for killboard ***s.
sakana North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:48:00 - [84] if making isk was to hard, why would anyone bother playing the game?
Ko Shimin Minmatar Independent Terran Empire Terran Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:51:00 - [85] My point is that highsec isk making thrugh missioning is OK 0.0 is more dangerous but rewards you more isk. Nerf highsec income, and what are highsec players left with??? Nothing.. no isk in highsec, 0.0 is mostly forbiddn to them. Less isk in highsec would mean that they will even have a hard time making ships to fly during their attempts to go lowsec, attempts that a lot of time end up in a cloning pod..
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.13 13:15:00 - [86] Originally by: mechtech Isk is too easy to make, it's not the same game I started playing 3 years ago. To be honest, I play many fantasy MMOs that have harsher death penalties now. Insurance needs to go away. A typical BS costs between 25-50m to replace. That takes an hour to replace with lvl 4s, mining, or ratting. When I started, I remember that 100m was a lot of isk. By the looks of it, isk is worth about 1/10 as much as it was 3 years ago. I've said this before, but the cost of death and loss in eve is now linked to timesinks. It takes time to get a new ship, resupply, ect. I think that this should be lessened and the monetary loss should be increased. Anyway, I think insurance is the issue. If ships cost more to lose, then there is more of a reason to fly the under used classes like BCs into combat, and variety would be increased. BS are easy to replace because the price has lowered, not because people has more isk. When I started a Dominix 120 million or so. Now it is around 80 millions. So in the past after getting insurance I had to pay, out of my pocket, 40 millions for the hull alone, now the hull has 0 cost as it is totally covered by insurance. More isk than before with a starting character? no. My isk giving more to the same starting characer? yes. so isk aren't worth less, they are worth more as they can buy more. Items are worth less, isk production is the same than before, result more isk in the wallet and more items in the hangar.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.13 13:22:00 - [87] Originally by: Rennion T2 is dirt cheap compared to the early days of my play time. Personally I would like to see a return to thsoe days, pvp only costs a lot of isk if you die a lot. So if you die a lot you should be flying T1, not T2 fitted T2 hulls and throw them away like left over food wrappers because you can make 20mil an hour in high sec. Uhm… if you die a lot and spend a couple of hours in highsec to replace your T2 ship, guess where that ISK ends up: in 0.0. I suppose this mean we should nerf 0.0 because it's too easy to make ISK off of people's T2 expenditures.
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.13 19:54:00 - [88] Originally by: Davina Braben Making ISK is ass dull. The less time you have to spend grinding, the more time you can spend pewing. The more time you can spend pewing the more entertaining EVE is. Who cares what the balance is for the other end of the game? And that nails it on the nose. It doesn't matter if I can make 20 mill an hour mining Veld. who the hell wants to sit and mine veld for 10 hrs a day?

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