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Making ISK....Way too easy?

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Aleyra Mel	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:45:00 - [1] Does it become way too easy to make ISK in EVE? With all those moons, minerals, complexes, etc etc, anyone thinks that it has become way too easy to make big money in EVE? I remember back when having a bs was hard, is this the purpose of the game to make caps for example be like bs before, and why not make them be even harder than what was having a bs 4 years ago? Maybe this is really the root of the blob problem.... cap blob problem, and titan dd problem... Its just way too easy to have bs, way too easy to have caps, and it really becomes way too easy to have titans... I really wonder if EVE economy is stable...
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:54:00 - [2] Only if you know what you're doing and can do so effieciently.
Aleyra Mel	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:56:00 - [3] So it seems liek the majority of EVE players knows what they are doing...
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:56:00 - [4] Originally by: Aleyra Mel Does it become way too easy to make ISK in high sec? Yes.
Sniper Wolf18 Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Aleyra Mel So it seems liek the majority of EVE players knows what they are doing... Yep, like i know that you are trolling
Warpfactor 9	Posted - 2009.01.11 22:39:00 - [6] As a new player, there are things that concern me greatly, and yes, I agree with you my early impression is making ISK is far too easy. I am greatly concerned about the buying ISK for real money. I doubt all players get caught. Also, we all should be concerned about those using macros to mine. Unless CCP finds and bans these players, the game will suffer as people quit because of these cheats and exploits. New players face 40,000 others currently signed on and most of them quickly went to high end ships. Some of the fun is missed when you start out slowly and have to build up to something bigger and better. So, I agree, it does seem like things come too fast and too easy--much of the early phase fun in the building up and growing phase is missed. This is especially true when your friend or co-worker gives you 100 million ISK as a starter fund, which is pocket change to many veterans.
Leandro Salazar Better Dead Then Smeg	Posted - 2009.01.11 22:41:00 - [7] Yes, getting isk for real money via GTCs is indeed way too easy. Ingame, only easy if you know what you are doing.
Cody Michaels Gallente Arcadian Enterprises OWN Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.11 22:55:00 - [8] The problem isn't how you get the money, because when you trade anything you're not creating the money from nothing. You're still taking it from somewhere else. If there is an abundance of ISK the problem isn't in trading, but from the source which is created ISK (missions). If missions aren't the problem then people are just paying too much for the goods (which should settle when people realize that there is a large supply and low demand).
Vabjekf	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:04:00 - [9] All i know is that this character is making much more money doing level 1s than my first character did doing level 1s several years ago. This cant be good.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:04:00 - [10] Remove 90% of the profit from high sec mission running. Problem solved.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:15:00 - [11] Edited by: Mara Rinn on 11/01/2009 23:15:23 Originally by: Aleyra Mel With all those moons, minerals, complexes, etc etc, anyone thinks that it has become way too easy to make big money in EVE? Moons and asteroids don't make ISK. Getting a battleship was hard four years ago because there weren't many people building them. The economy is currently in deflation, which means that there is an oversupply of goods. If there was too much ISK, the prices would be going up! Originally by: Bellum Eternus Remove 90% of the profit from high sec mission running. Problem solved. What problem?
Zaldoza Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:15:00 - [12] Cant see what that should help,i know the farmers would be happy.Make it harder to earn isk = more people will buy from them...They wont care how hard it is,they afk macro anyway.. Making it harder to earn isk in high sec,would also force people in low sec to lower prices on their loot.So they will also make less isk..It goes both ways.. No one but the farmers would win from this,so leave it like it is.. Zaldoc...Miner Zaldoza..Mission Runner
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Mara Rinn Edited by: Mara Rinn on 11/01/2009 23:15:23 Originally by: Aleyra Mel With all those moons, minerals, complexes, etc etc, anyone thinks that it has become way too easy to make big money in EVE? Moons and asteroids don't make ISK. Getting a battleship was hard four years ago because there weren't many people building them. The economy is currently in deflation, which means that there is an oversupply of goods. If there was too much ISK, the prices would be going up! Originally by: Bellum Eternus Remove 90% of the profit from high sec mission running. Problem solved. What problem? The volume of ISK generated per day is too much. That problem. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Shogun Archer Gallente Brotherhood of Soban	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:20:00 - [14] I think losing Isk is way too easy. Nerf it.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:20:00 - [15] Originally by: Bellum Eternus The volume of ISK generated per day is too much. That problem. If that's happening, why don't we have inflation? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Bellum Eternus The volume of ISK generated per day is too much. That problem. If that's happening, why don't we have inflation? Because you touch at night. no, it's because of minerals ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:30:00 - [17] If you pay attention to the forums, yes. We are all multi billionaires. Back in game however, everyone I know and have known for around 4 years sit on an average of 400 mill ISK. That's around 2 fitted HACs or one well fitted battleship.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:36:00 - [18] Making isk easy? Why yes of course! Done in no time? No, not at all. Doing level 4 missions nets of decent isk, but its not that super isk/hour like ratting in 0.0, or playing the market. It takes a lot of time to do a lot of missions, and the market guys puts lots of time in as well.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.01.12 00:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Bellum Eternus The volume of ISK generated per day is too much. That problem. If that's happening, why don't we have inflation? Because T1 and T2 modules are more or less price-fixed by the system, withing certain bands. Only modules with meta-number between 1 and 4 or deadspace/officer items that have no direct LP-shop equivalent are effected by inflation, and even them only in a limited manner. Want to see wether we have inflation or not, you pretty much have to look at officer modules alone. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Cors It's A Trap White Core	Posted - 2009.01.12 01:05:00 - [20] From one of the Quarterly economic reports, it stated that the average isk in people wallets was something like 200 mil. That's not a lot. For pvp players, they can loose a few billion isk a day if they are in the middle of a war. So if you mean running lvl 4 missions is "too easy" then you need to start useing your isk for something other then PVE ships. Moon mining is MEANT to be a large isk income. WHY? Becuase it's meant to be a way to finance capital ships. For corps in 0.0 alliance's. When a single T2 Cruiser with full pvp fittings can cost you 200-400 mil depending on your fittings, pvp is EXPENSIVE. I actually think they should make it EASIER to earn isk.. WHY? you ask? So we can spend less time mining and ratting and mission *****ing and more time PVPing. Plus, if it was easier to make isk, more people would DO that.. and less folks would Buy isk. Though that'd be bad for folks who buy timecards for isk.
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2009.01.12 01:18:00 - [21] if there really was a problem with the amount of isk being created, prices would go up. they're not, ergo......
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.01.12 01:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Bellum Eternus The volume of ISK generated per day is too much. That problem. If that's happening, why don't we have inflation? Because T1 and T2 modules are more or less price-fixed by the system, withing certain bands. Only modules with meta-number between 1 and 4 or deadspace/officer items that have no direct LP-shop equivalent are effected by inflation, and even them only in a limited manner. Want to see wether we have inflation or not, you pretty much have to look at officer modules alone. And there it is. If you look at top end modules and their prices, prices have been steadily increasing across the board. Best-in-game armor reps that used to sell for 450-550m now sell for 1.9-2.1 billion+. Inflation is most definitely here. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2009.01.12 01:28:00 - [23] Looking for inflation? ---- ≡v≡
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.12 01:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Bellum Eternus And there it is. If you look at top end modules and their prices, prices have been steadily increasing across the board. Best-in-game armor reps that used to sell for 450-550m now sell for 1.9-2.1 billion+. Inflation is most definitely here. that might have something to do with the fact that they fixed those static plexes and reducing the profit on high sec mission running wont solve a damn thing tbh. its still to easy to make isk in 0,0 with close to 0 risk as well Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Davina Braben	Posted - 2009.01.12 01:32:00 - [25] Originally by: Aleyra Mel Does it become way too easy to make ISK in EVE? With all those moons, minerals, complexes, etc etc, anyone thinks that it has become way too easy to make big money in EVE? I remember back when having a bs was hard, is this the purpose of the game to make caps for example be like bs before, and why not make them be even harder than what was having a bs 4 years ago? Maybe this is really the root of the blob problem.... cap blob problem, and titan dd problem... Its just way too easy to have bs, way too easy to have caps, and it really becomes way too easy to have titans... I really wonder if EVE economy is stable... Nope. PVP costs money.
Jesslyn Daggererux Gallente SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.01.12 01:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Ocih If you pay attention to the forums, yes. We are all multi billionaires. Back in game however, everyone I know and have known for around 4 years sit on an average of 400 mill ISK. That's around 2 fitted HACs and well fitted battleship. fixed for ya. seriously. 'well fitted' to me translates to all t2 gear and some rigs and faction ammo. i hope you dont spend 200m on one BS, let alone 400m. if so, where do you hang out? take mez can plz?
Bo'Tox Amarr Arkor Inc	Posted - 2009.01.12 01:40:00 - [27] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Bellum Eternus The volume of ISK generated per day is too much. That problem. If that's happening, why don't we have inflation? We do.. Havent you heard the screams over the last few years about: - tritanium prices - GTC prices - insert other FOTM ship or module...
Buyus Stuffius	Posted - 2009.01.12 01:40:00 - [28] Originally by: Roy Batty68 Looking for inflation? im sorry sir, you seem to have the word 'inflation' confused with 'supply and demand'.
Eternum Praetorian Tupperware Party	Posted - 2009.01.12 01:47:00 - [29] IF Eve is meant to be a PVP game...and PVP costs us big time. There is no logic in any of the arguments that suggest we should nerf ISK making in general OR mission running in Empire. How would we function? Making large amounts of ISK requires dedication. ALLOT of dedication and time as it is. Anything PVP based costs loads of ISK, and EVE is PVP (even trading) Putting pure logic aside for a moment, my own personal take on this is----let the traders sit on a mountain of cash, let the mission runners role in isk so they can by more stuff and stimulate the economy, let the PVP'ers benefit from a healthy in game economy where items are in abundance and THUS they can replace their losses without a major diversion from what they enjoy doing. If anything, ADD to the benefits of gaining ISK in low sec and null sec and that would make EVE even more interesting then it is. P.S. Buying ISK is just for new players and players that want a free ride. Those of us with fat wallets spend many an hour earning what we have. It costs SP, and when we have the SP it costs us loads of time, and it can be quite grueling sometimes honestly. I don't particularly enjoy the Mission grind, but it beats the mining grind Make it even harder to gain ISK you will double or triple the grind for players like me while at the same time cutting the PVP side in half. A game should be fun people....
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers	Posted - 2009.01.12 02:34:00 - [30] It is easily earned and easily lost. In the end it all balances out.
Enthral	Posted - 2009.01.12 02:45:00 - [31] Yes and no. For some people, their only goal is to make isk. That's it. Just mine to make isk. Build to make isk. Mission run to make isk. For them, making isk appears easy, because the only time they spend any of it is to help them make more isk. For others, isk is just a means to PvP. For them, making isk is a big pain in the rear. Every isk they earn is funneled into ships, modules and ammo to PvP. What takes them two or three days of grinding away at missions can be lost in just a few hours of PvP. So really I think it all depends on perspective. -Enthral
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.12 04:17:00 - [32] its not too easy to make isk, its too easy to save it, they need to bring out more isk sinks that dont suck! like ships attachments that are bought though npc sellers (and that refine into minerals etc so not to screw the market) and other such things that take isk out of the game rather than just spreading it around
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.01.12 04:29:00 - [33] The fact that hisec ISK making matches lowsec and 0.0 ISK making is the problem. Making ISK pretty fast is fine, as long as you have to defend your right to do so.
Shirley Serious Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.01.12 04:31:00 - [34] I think it depends on what kind of game Eve is supposed to be. If it's only inconvenience of fitting new ships that's a drawback, then Eve becomes a game where there's not much players can point at as an achievement, except kills/deaths, which will eventually get boring. But on the other extreme, having losses be really expensive increases the proportion of time spent on earning compared to spending. This promotes metagaming - noob alt scouts, logoffs, etc. and general lack of risk taking. It's no big deal to lose a day's income on taking a chance. When it's a month's income, it's more serious. And it also makes established organisations more secure, as new ones cannot build up a large reserve to fund a major push. That also gets boring eventually.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.12 05:04:00 - [35] Originally by: Bo'Tox Originally by: Tippia If that's happening, why don't we have inflation? We do.. Havent you heard the screams over the last few years about: - tritanium prices - GTC prices - insert other FOTM ship or module... No we don't. Haven't you heard the the reports from EyjoG? Either way, no, it's not too easy to make ISK, but it just might be (for example) too hard to lose it once you have it, which is why I posed my question. Without a point of reference, there is no "too much" and thus no problem. So, if "too much" ISK is generated per day, then too much in compared to what? Compared to the total money supply? Compared to ISK lost? Compared to items generated? Each "too much" has its own unique solution — picking the wrong one won't solve the (supposed) problem.
Bo'Tox Amarr Arkor Inc	Posted - 2009.01.12 05:07:00 - [36] Originally by: Xtreem its not too easy to make isk, its too easy to save it, they need to bring out more isk sinks that dont suck! like ships attachments that are bought though npc sellers (and that refine into minerals etc so not to screw the market) and other such things that take isk out of the game rather than just spreading it around Game mechanics and data transfer not withstanding, I see customisable ship skins as being a good Sink... GOON and BOB specific paintjob on their ships? ooohhh!!
Bo'Tox Amarr Arkor Inc	Posted - 2009.01.12 05:23:00 - [37] Originally by: Tippia No we don't. Haven't you heard the the reports from EyjoG? No, never heard of them. What are they? Is that an abbreviation of a person? character? Website? Linky please...? I guess I was refering to Market adjustments, not Inflation as such. If natural resources were fixed then we would have an issue (ie asteroids didn't "autoregenerate") and we wouldnt need inflation. But with this then the ways a player can generate their own wealth is almost unlimited. It is however, limited by the time that a player can connect and accumulate the wealth... I think this is a better solution than inflation as such. Originally by: Tippia Either way, no, it's not too easy to make ISK, but it just might be (for example) too hard to lose it once you have it, which is why I posed my question. Without a point of reference, there is no "too much" and thus no problem. There are plenty of ways to loose your isk, but they all revolve around the player actually spending it... New ships, new modules, new skillbooks, buying GTC's.. But I agree without a point of reference you cant say "you've got too much". I've got 100 million isk, which when I started a year ago was more than I could conceive Id ever have. But skillbooks for carriers and dreadnought types are in the billions so whose to say that 200 Billion is a lot....??? Setting up a POS is the same. Buying BPO's = heaps of isk required... etc.... Originally by: Tippia So, if "too much" ISK is generated per day, then too much in compared to what? Compared to the total money supply? Compared to ISK lost? Compared to items generated? Each "too much" has its own unique solution ù picking the wrong one won't solve the (supposed) problem. Exactly..
Enthral	Posted - 2009.01.12 05:42:00 - [38] Originally by: Xtreem its not too easy to make isk, its too easy to save it, they need to bring out more isk sinks that dont suck! I smell a carebear. As I said, if you don't PvP, you don't have a proper isk sink so it is going to seem like isk is too easy to get. If you PvP--even if you're good at it--you're going to go through isk like crazy. And goodness help you if you suck. ;-) You can easily spend 25m isk on a properly fit PvP interceptor, for example. One PvP mistake in one of those, and they go bye bye real quick. Double that figure for your new clone and implants. Heavy Assault Cruiser? Expect to pay a solid 125m to play. A properly fitted PvP battleship? 200m on up. And don't even get me started on how expensive it is to fit a carrier. The look invincible to a carebear, but watch have fast they melt in a fleet when you're called primary. Finally, let's look at alliance warfare in general. While the carebear throws up a nice and juicy 1b isk POS in high sec and calls it a day, alliances are tossing them up all over the place. You don't like paying 50m/month to feed your POS? Try feeding dozens of them. And each is a big, fat target, which are costly to destroy, costlier to defend, and even costlier to lose. The carebear thinks EVE doesn't have any isk sinks, because they don't participate in the part of the game where all the isk sinks exist. In fact, the carebear is the isk generator in EVE, so of course isk seems easy to get and tough to lose for them! Like I said. It is all a matter of perspective. -Enthral
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.12 05:48:00 - [39] Edited by: Tippia on 12/01/2009 05:54:21 Originally by: Enthral As I said, if you don't PvP, you don't have a proper isk sink so it is going to seem like isk is too easy to get. If you PvP--even if you're good at it--you're going to go through isk like crazy. And goodness help you if you suck. ;-) PvP isn't an ISK sink — it's an item sink (well, combat is, at least — market and industry PvP have some unavoidable ISK sinks built into it). Combat doesn't remove money from the system — in fact, it adds money if the ships are insured. It doesn't matter how much your ship and fittings costs, because you don't lose any money when it's destroyed, only property. The ISK has long sinced changed hands and is now in the possession of someone else… and then the fairy ISK-mother descends and creates some more ISK out of nowhere to give to you. The only ISK sink in combat is the cost of clones, and that sink is (technically) optional.
Icycle Shuugouteki	Posted - 2009.01.12 05:54:00 - [40] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Enthral As I said, if you don't PvP, you don't have a proper isk sink so it is going to seem like isk is too easy to get. If you PvP--even if you're good at it--you're going to go through isk like crazy. And goodness help you if you suck. ;-) PvP isn't an ISK sink ù it's an item sink. It doesn't remove money from the system (in fact, it adds money if the ships are insured). of course it removes money ... unless you dont fit your ship you loose your ship not every item is dropped some is blown up thus loosing the item that is worth ISK however Enthral is correct ... its all a matter of perspective ... a person who mines or missions all day and every once in awhile buys a new ship or a new fitting has no isk sink it can amass isk rather quickly those that PvP even the best will loose a ship (most fly tech II no insurance payouts) loose a ship ... loose a pod ... loose your loot your out ISK ... and unless you have multiple accounts or can play all day long it sucks to make ISK to support PvP habbits the ISK sink IS pvp ... there is no other (big) sinks in the game ... you dont loose a pod to an NPC so really its a matter of perspective how easy or hard it is to make and keep that isk
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.01.12 05:54:00 - [41] Originally by: Kahega Amielden The fact that hisec ISK making matches lowsec and 0.0 ISK making is the problem. Making ISK pretty fast is fine, as long as you have to defend your right to do so. It matches low-sec (in practice), yes. It does not match 0.0 ISK making. Not even close. Maybe Providence and other crap regions (barely), but it's not even close to the insane amount of ISK you can make in some of the better 0.0 regions (because I'm pretty sure you can't make 30-50 mil per hour running lvl4s, and this without even counting the possibility of running into an officer or getting decent faction loot).
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.12 05:56:00 - [42] Originally by: Icycle of course it removes money ... unless you dont fit your ship No it doesn't. It removes the ship. The ship is not ISK — it's a ship. The ISK was transferred (not removed) to some other player when you bought the ship, and is still floating around out there.
Tave88	Posted - 2009.01.12 05:58:00 - [43] my main char does mining and its sp total about 2.8mill. i find that making isk is pretty hard at the current moment since my long term plan is to pay with isk for gtc and after about a month i only got 40-50mill isk from selling trit. seeing that 670mill wts is very demorilizing especially when you worked soo hard mining for 2-5hours each day about 4-6 times a week. i sort of gave up on that plan and now every day is just waiting for the mining barge V to finish so i can move on to covetor soon.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.01.12 06:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Bo'Tox Originally by: Tippia If that's happening, why don't we have inflation? We do.. Havent you heard the screams over the last few years about: - tritanium prices - GTC prices - insert other FOTM ship or module... No we don't. Haven't you heard the the reports from EyjoG? Either way, no, it's not too easy to make ISK, but it just might be (for example) too hard to lose it once you have it, which is why I posed my question. Without a point of reference, there is no "too much" and thus no problem. So, if "too much" ISK is generated per day, then too much in compared to what? Compared to the total money supply? Compared to ISK lost? Compared to items generated? Each "too much" has its own unique solution ù picking the wrong one won't solve the (supposed) problem. I'd agree with most of that. The fact that the economy keeps stable is a good sign that the amount of ISK generated is not high. Trit is going up in value, but it has gone up in value and down in value in the past. Same with megacyte which seems to be in a slight decline at the moment. GTC is entirely supply and demand. If anything prices have deflated drastically in the past couple years (although a lot of that is to be blamed on invention). Basically if too much ISK is being generated the pattern should be... Increase in ISK = decrease in value of ISK = increase in all prices. Actually it is quite possible that the worst thing they could do in this case is cut off the flow of ISK into the economy. It could lead to a massive increase in prices as people start worrying about just how much they make off of every deal rather then dumping it on the market and hoping for the best. ------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2009.01.12 06:21:00 - [45] Its easily earned because its a game and the dev's expect you to spend it to blow up ships. If making isk was a job this wouldnt be a game now would it.
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 06:54:00 - [46] Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux Originally by: Ocih If you pay attention to the forums, yes. We are all multi billionaires. Back in game however, everyone I know and have known for around 4 years sit on an average of 400 mill ISK. That's around 2 fitted HACs and well fitted battleship. fixed for ya. seriously. 'well fitted' to me translates to all t2 gear and some rigs and faction ammo. i hope you dont spend 200m on one BS, let alone 400m. if so, where do you hang out? take mez can plz? A well fit and rigged Sniper Apoc will run over 300 mill if you want your optimal in the 220km range. I used to fit Abaddons all T2 untill I saw the Avatar Sig rad they produce. No worries, I gave up on battleships or floating instapop/ primaries. Skill training will now be focused on HAC and CS so I can be just like the other 10,000 or so PvP'ers in EvE. Meanwhile my original Account is training Titan. Avatar and Abso. Get in the biggest blobs I can find and to hell with anyone who gets in our way.
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 07:05:00 - [47] Originally by: Tave88 my main char does mining and its sp total about 2.8mill. i find that making isk is pretty hard at the current moment since my long term plan is to pay with isk for gtc and after about a month i only got 40-50mill isk from selling trit. seeing that 670mill wts is very demorilizing especially when you worked soo hard mining for 2-5hours each day about 4-6 times a week. i sort of gave up on that plan and now every day is just waiting for the mining barge V to finish so i can move on to covetor soon. High sec Hulk. If you enjoy mining, this is the way to go. Trit counts on most ships are, by numbers 80% of the ship and Trit will always be in demand. It's pure grind but with SP coming by the minute no matter what, you are left to either make ISK or lose ISK.
Ivana Drake	Posted - 2009.01.12 07:17:00 - [48] If not for Insurance we would be seeing prices for your average BS skyrocket imo
Asuka Smith Gallente StarHunt Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.01.12 07:40:00 - [49] I used to worry about inflation until I realized how the EVE inflation works. The way it works is like this (And I hope this puts everyone who is worried to ease). Chribba starts a mining corp and organizes an elaborate supply chain, thus allowing him or people connected to him at some point in the chain to produce every item consumed by players across the galaxy. Chribba is however not the only one doing this, there are probably several dozen other people who are running similar operations (BoB, Goonswarm, RA, whoever the big players at the time are). Then, the 200,000 people who are not a part of one of the (I would say less than two dozen) market schemes go run some missions and rat. This generates insanely large amounts of ISK and contributes to massive Zimbabwe style inflation. These players then spend the money on the ships made by the Chribba-style industrial organizations. The money generated through these organizations ultimately winds up in the hands of a few individuals who have trillions and trillions and never spend a dime of it ever and ultimately quit the game or spend the money on GTCs to keep training but never play or put the money into the economy. This allows for massive inflation to continue without damaging the economy for the "regular" players because that money (while still in the game) is functionally simply being removed from the game. *Short Version* The inflation alarmists fail to realize that spending 200m on a battleship is going to lead to an increase in Chribba's wallet, not an increase in the amount of free-floating currency that devalues ISK and raises prices. I mean you might as well burn the money because once you spend it it is going into Chribba's spreadsheet and never seeing the light of day again.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.12 07:44:00 - [50] I've yet to play a MMO with challenge In EVE you can set new ones, as you do i other ones with limited resources, but generally, MMO is not a place to look for a good challenge. Actually, games in general are not challenging these days. thinks I'ma go get my impossible mission out of the closet. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.12 07:46:00 - [51] The more ISK that is generated, the more people feel happy about PvP and therefore lose it. The balance is created.
Vabjekf	Posted - 2009.01.12 07:53:00 - [52] Im an isk sink. Send me all your unwanted isk! I promise i will never spend it on player manufactured goods and it will be effectively removed from the game. Only together can we fight inflation!
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2009.01.12 09:12:00 - [53] Originally by: Buyus Stuffius Originally by: Roy Batty68 Looking for inflation? im sorry sir, you seem to have the word 'inflation' confused with 'supply and demand'. No, I'm not confused. But you are right, supply and demand is certainly a factor. But can you prove that it is solely the reason for the price increases? You could use this board to time travel a bit and go back a year and try to do a comparitive study on the apparent amount of GTCs changing hands then to what is occuring now. You could also try and derive how much demand there was then and now. It would be inherently inaccurate since the boards have never reflected 100% of the exchanges (people spam in game channels to sell and/or respond in game to buy). No, sorry, you can't prove your theory. Neither can I. I suspect it is a bit of both though. People are willing to spend more for less now. Why? Simply because supply isn't meeting demand? No, I don't believe that is the whole story. Hell, the econ guy even admitted in one of his reports that isk in was out pacing isk out. And due to the nature of Eve's market, there is only a few places to see inflation. But, as I said, I can't prove it. It's just a gut feeling. If you can prove your theory is 100% of the situation, please, lets have it. I'm always willing to learn. ---- ≡v≡
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.12 09:41:00 - [54] If you'd have a more detail look on the issue, you'd realise that the contrary is the case. Making isk is harder today than it ever was. Missionrunning for example resulted in much more isk few years ago, when loyalty points were at around 2k isk/ lp for empire. Production was more profitable, today there are too many people producing, the prices of ships are few % over the building costs. T2 items are cheaper then ever because of invention, no more big money with t2 bpo monopoly (invulnerability field II for 15 mil isk anyone ? ). Passive income like capital and supercapital bpo copying yields in only a fraction that they were making before. Trading has become harder, too many people jumped in, now there are buy-orders close to sell-prices for most items in the main tradingspots. How can you say making isk has become easier ? Name me one thing that is now easier to make money with compared to the past.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.01.12 10:41:00 - [55] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Remove 90% of the profit from high sec mission running. Problem solved. If I remember correct thats the Stalin solution. 'No man, no problem'.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2009.01.12 10:46:00 - [56] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba If you'd have a more detail look on the issue, you'd realise that the contrary is the case. Making isk is harder today than it ever was. Missionrunning for example resulted in much more isk few years ago, when loyalty points were at around 2k isk/ lp for empire. Production was more profitable, today there are too many people producing, the prices of ships are few % over the building costs. T2 items are cheaper then ever because of invention, no more big money with t2 bpo monopoly (invulnerability field II for 15 mil isk anyone ? ). Passive income like capital and supercapital bpo copying yields in only a fraction that they were making before. Trading has become harder, too many people jumped in, now there are buy-orders close to sell-prices for most items in the main tradingspots. How can you say making isk has become easier ? Name me one thing that is now easier to make money with compared to the past. Sounds like things are getting cheaper. Sort of begs the question do we need as much isk as before to get the same things done? I suppose that in turn indicates that the true measurement would be done in time spent, rather than isk earned. For instance, I remember a time when Ravens averaged around 130mil. Now they are generally around 85mil. If it took me a day to earn 130mil two years ago, and now it takes me a day to earn 85mil, what has changed? Sure, I'm making less, but I need less as well. Point being you can't say, "two years ago I made X doing activity Y and now I make X-some%" as if that is the entire story. You have to consider eve "cost of living" as part of the equation as well. And really, the only element in all of this worthy of comparison is time. How much time grinding does it take to kit out my ship now versus then? That's a better question than is it too easy to make isk. ---- ≡v≡
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.12 11:16:00 - [57] I personally think that the price is ok, but for example getting T2 ships and modules is way too easy. You just go to the market and buy them. Make some modules illegal to sell or somehow alter certain things so that money isn't the only needed element (plus skills). Or perhaps make it so that you can't fitt certain modules in high sec.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.01.12 11:30:00 - [58] GTCs inflated in price quickly during two events: the first was the repricing of the GTC sold in $US, the second was the release of PLEX which allowed 1 GTC to be broken into two 30 day extensions, sold ingame as an item. The price of GTC is dependent on factors outside the game itself. If people were paying $35 for 500 ISK before, they want to be getting more ISK now for their $39.95. So please, don't use the price of GTC as "proof" that there is inflation in the EVE economy. While officer items are going up slowly (would that be because the market is small?), the prices of most minerals except tritanium has been steadily decreasing. That indicates that there is too much supply of minerals. Too many people trying to sell minerals for a profit means there's less profit to be made.
Shea Klant	Posted - 2009.01.12 12:36:00 - [59] So what do you mean by too easy to make ISK? You obviously think that there should be 1-2 titans in the game and most people should be flying cruisers not battleships, not because they want to but because it should be near impossible in financial terms. Well just like the real world times are a changing. With a bigger in game economy there are more opportunities for people to become very wealthy, through things like trading and industry. So that contributes to it. More people, than 4 years ago, have the ability to actually go out and run missions and do things that generate wealth. Simple game additions such as tractor beams and salvagers multiplied the effectivity of missioning. You are like some crotchty old man, that is complaining that everyone is driving Porches, have it too easy, and don't know the value of an ISK. I'll grant you that a high sec PVE pilot can max out most of the necessary skills and be grinding missions in his Navy issue in a relatively short period of time, but that is hardly applicable to PvP or anything that involves low-sec or 0.0 When you get to low sec and 0.0 (you have moved out high sec right, if you haven't then you have no right to complain about things you have no understanding of) that's an unfair comparison. A rigged, faction fit, Navy issue would last all of 10 minutes in 0.0 once the locals got wind of it. Big fish like that look really nice on the Corp kill board. In high sec ship longevity can be measured in years, in PvP ships typically don't make it much past a few weeks. In 0.0 PvP a good portions of the time it's measured in days. You have to make enough money to be able to outfit your ships. The ship itself is typically becoming the smallest part of the expensve anymore when fielding a ready vessel. Now as far as the blob is concerned that's CCP's fault. Making people poor in the game will not help. Letting people fly around in expensive toys is much easier than actually adding in the things necessary to put a damper on blob fights other than the occasional large fleet clashes out in deep space. Some things missing from the game that would reduce the occurance of the simple Blob fights. 1. No line of sight requirements to target and fire weapons, so no not much of a need for organized formations & manuevers 2. No observability issues, overly simplified 100% non-detectable cloak as wells as simplified sensors instead of stealthy ships, fittings, and tactics such as active/passive sensors power down modes or environment interference to detection. 3. Unlimited fuel capabilities of the ships, other than jump fuel, creates no real logistical tactics 4. An absolute lack of objects in space and non-uniform evironments (asteroid belts, planets, and dead space complexes, being the only very limited examples) for tactical considerations (other than stations & gates) 5. Standardized forced choke points (gates) 6. Simple ship repair models, hopefully sub-system targeting goes towards fixing this So it becomes a question of numbers, ship types, and fleet organization (aka DPS vs Tank, aka Blob tactics) The ability to generate isk or wealth have absolutely nothing to do with the regular occurance of blobs in eve.
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.01.12 13:46:00 - [60] Making money is easy enough.... keeping it is a different story. For those players who PvE only as much as needed to fund PvP, I think the majority of people are mostly broke most of the time. If you made ISK-earning any harder people would be even more risk-averse and you would find blobs were much worse. If you never PvP then yes, making ISK is too easy. But it doesn't matter because all you have to spend it on is more officer mods for your CNR.
B1FF	Posted - 2009.01.12 14:05:00 - [61] Originally by: Warpfactor 9 As a new player, there are things that concern me greatly, and yes, I agree with you my early impression is making ISK is far too easy. I am greatly concerned about the buying ISK for real money. I doubt all players get caught. Also, we all should be concerned about those using macros to mine. Unless CCP finds and bans these players, the game will suffer as people quit because of these cheats and exploits. New players face 40,000 others currently signed on and most of them quickly went to high end ships. Some of the fun is missed when you start out slowly and have to build up to something bigger and better. So, I agree, it does seem like things come too fast and too easy--much of the early phase fun in the building up and growing phase is missed. This is especially true when your friend or co-worker gives you 100 million ISK as a starter fund, which is pocket change to many veterans. The problem here is of perceptions. The news think BSes are killer. An experienced player knows that a well skilled medium ship will beat a low skilled large ship hands down. Stop trying to "level". This game doesn't have it. Learn how to fly. If you're against buying isk then you need to quit or start yelling at CCP since they sell isk.
Bit Steen	Posted - 2009.01.12 15:09:00 - [62] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker It is easily earned and easily lost. In the end it all balances out. There is no more to say
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2009.01.12 15:46:00 - [63] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 12/01/2009 05:54:21 Originally by: Enthral As I said, if you don't PvP, you don't have a proper isk sink so it is going to seem like isk is too easy to get. If you PvP--even if you're good at it--you're going to go through isk like crazy. And goodness help you if you suck. ;-) PvP isn't an ISK sink ù it's an item sink (well, combat is, at least ù market and industry PvP have some unavoidable ISK sinks built into it). Combat doesn't remove money from the system ù in fact, it adds money if the ships are insured. It doesn't matter how much your ship and fittings costs, because you don't lose any money when it's destroyed, only property. The ISK has long sinced changed hands and is now in the possession of someone elseà and then the fairy ISK-mother descends and creates some more ISK out of nowhere to give to you. The only ISK sink in combat is the cost of clones, and that sink is (technically) optional. I really want to know what kind of ships you're flying. Suicide gank battleships in hi sec? I have 300mil HACs and they blow up occassionally. I got like 100mil in my wallet and most of kills I get earn me practically +/-0 ISK. I have to make my money trading stuff in hi sec. Explain how I would gain from my ship blowing up :D
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 16:02:00 - [64] No, but buying ISK by GTC selling is much to easy! Lot of people I know bought 10+ GTC, sold em for ISK and bought Capitals from it or tons of PvP-ships. If I then tell em, that I can not afford to lose many ships in PvP they advice me "man, just sell some GTCs" - which I refuse to do!
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.12 16:06:00 - [65] Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn I really want to know what kind of ships you're flying. Suicide gank battleships in hi sec? I have 300mil HACs and they blow up occassionally. I got like 100mil in my wallet and most of kills I get earn me practically +/-0 ISK. I have to make my money trading stuff in hi sec. Explain how I would gain from my ship blowing up :D You're confusing "sink" and "faucet" (system-wide changes) with "loss" and "profit" (changes in your wallet). An ISK sink is something that removes money from the economy as a whole. An ISK faucet is something that adds money to the economy. This has nothing to do with what route they take as they pass through your personal wallet. When you buy your 300mil HAC and then have it blown up, what happens is that you transfer money from your wallet to someone elses wallet (an ISK loss for you, no change to the total economy) and then your ship* blows up (has nothing to do with ISK — this is an item loss… or possibly an item transformation as your ship is turned into salvage), and then (possibly) the fairy ISK-mother conjures up some new ISK out of nowhere to pay for your insurance and dumps it in your wallet (an ISK profit for you, money is added to the economy). From your perspective, the whole affair is probably a loss since the profit from the insurance doesn't cover the loss from the transfer. However, from the perspective of the economy as a whole, no ISK is ever lost during this process — quite the opposite: ISK is added when the insurance pays out money that doesn't come from another player. It is only the system-wide changes — the sinks and faucets — that create "too much" or "too little" ISK. Everything else just moves the cash around. Technically not entirely true since there's sales tax, but close enough… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki*
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2009.01.12 16:08:00 - [66] It's pretty funny how people think that missions are the only way people make vast amounts of money in empire. Removing missions from highsec will do nothing, risk vs. reward is a myth. I've been making from my T2 blueprints for years now, and now I'm into capital ship production. There really is no limit to the amount you can reinvest in manufacturing safe in highsec.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.12 16:59:00 - [67] Originally by: Gamer4liff It's pretty funny how people think that missions are the only way people make vast amounts of money in empire. Depends on what they mean. If they actually mean “make” ISK, then sure, there are other ways. If they mean “create” ISK, they're definitely right — the rewards and bounties from missions create far more ISK than ratting and NPC buy orders.
Jesslyn Daggererux Gallente SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.01.12 17:32:00 - [68] in 2 months ive made about a bil from pvp and the spoils of it. i lost 1 unrigged BS. ive had in that time about 80 kills (includes pods), some ransoms, and some faction/deadspace loot from kills. the only non pvp related money making i did was running maybe 20 missions durring that whole time just to get a level 3 locate agent and a couple static plexes when theres no one to shoot. oh, and i scanned some missions sometimes to salvage. once i got lucky and arrived just as a gravy raven died and got 3 dg launchers. all of this was in high sec and mostly through wars. theres so much isk to be made out there. i wouldnt call it too easy, i definitely work for it. i think i work an acceptable amount.
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2009.01.12 17:56:00 - [69] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Mara Rinn Edited by: Mara Rinn on 11/01/2009 23:15:23 Originally by: Aleyra Mel With all those moons, minerals, complexes, etc etc, anyone thinks that it has become way too easy to make big money in EVE? Moons and asteroids don't make ISK. Getting a battleship was hard four years ago because there weren't many people building them. The economy is currently in deflation, which means that there is an oversupply of goods. If there was too much ISK, the prices would be going up! Originally by: Bellum Eternus Remove 90% of the profit from high sec mission running. Problem solved. What problem? The volume of ISK generated per day is too much. That problem. Why is it too much? As most people try to do, they compare Eve missions from 'now and then'. If missions/isk generated the same amounts it was 'back then' then Eve would fall on its face like this argument. Eve is growing, with more isk comes more ships/war/trade and let us not forget, fun.
Hacra Minmatar Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:45:00 - [70] Is money making too easy, no. Why? For players like me who like to do bit of everything and not really specialize in any type of money grinding, would it be level 4 missions, mining, piracy, 0.0 ratting, manufacturing or moon mining. The amount of income is just right, if you put your mind into some of these areas you can raise decent amount of isk to meet your goals, would it be buying of battleship or carrier, blueprint(s), etc. What comes easy also goes easy, biggest amount of isk i have had in this game is 1,5bil isk (what i currently have) and i know that money is very soon spent to various things. And the circle starts again. Imho if money gain would be slower/worse it would kill certain player base who do not want to specialize in grinding of isk. And those who do "grind" their wallet to be fat, it is just fine, that's business and also is what this game is all about, isk.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:56:00 - [71] Originally by: Vabjekf All i know is that this character is making much more money doing level 1s than my first character did doing level 1s several years ago. This cant be good. Maybe because this character has from x4 to x10 times the SP of the character you had 4 years ago and all of them in the right places to do missions? And because you know what traversal is, what missiles to use and so on? Experience serve you there a lot.
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:14:00 - [72] Originally by: Enthral Originally by: Xtreem its not too easy to make isk, its too easy to save it, they need to bring out more isk sinks that dont suck! I smell a carebear. background check prior to calling me that please! and i was talking about isk sinks that all can use, for example carebears with there super shiney ships etc
Takashi X2	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:59:00 - [73] I thinks that most people whining about isk being too easy to makes are teh ones who dont make very much adn as ****y cuz the nice complex stuff doubled in price in the past 8 months... that being said if you really have too much isk come lose some in the channel Eve online Hold'em id be more than happy to win some isk from you to support my 0.0 pew pewing! Also that being said i make about a bil every 3 weeks and sadly my wallet usually sits at 200mil or so..... but i have fun watching my isk go boom!
mechtech Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.13 00:16:00 - [74] Isk is too easy to make, it's not the same game I started playing 3 years ago. To be honest, I play many fantasy MMOs that have harsher death penalties now. Insurance needs to go away. A typical BS costs between 25-50m to replace. That takes an hour to replace with lvl 4s, mining, or ratting. When I started, I remember that 100m was a lot of isk. By the looks of it, isk is worth about 1/10 as much as it was 3 years ago. I've said this before, but the cost of death and loss in eve is now linked to timesinks. It takes time to get a new ship, resupply, ect. I think that this should be lessened and the monetary loss should be increased. Anyway, I think insurance is the issue. If ships cost more to lose, then there is more of a reason to fly the under used classes like BCs into combat, and variety would be increased.
Davina Braben	Posted - 2009.01.13 00:26:00 - [75] Making ISK is ass dull. The less time you have to spend grinding, the more time you can spend pewing. The more time you can spend pewing the more entertaining EVE is. Who cares what the balance is for the other end of the game?
Spurty Caldari Technologic Dance	Posted - 2009.01.13 00:41:00 - [76] Anyone got the stats on the numbers of people in / out of high sec? The gap has to be closing. I've been running missions for about 2 months now, think after costs of running missions have been stripped from profit, I have made about 40mill :-/ Not everyone here can play 23/7, making isk is not simple for the casual player. Blob a fully faction fitted ship and loot it and you'll usually walk off with more than 40mill pay out. 2months of pay out in 2mins of pew pew. Lots of ways to make isk, all of the good agents were moved into low sec recently, so its actually a lot harder to get the quality agents for mission runners. Always going to be Zero 'allure' to running missions in low sec for the majority of EVE subscribers. Just a guess here, but surely the mean skill points / number of players of EVE are passed needing 250k isk skills ever again. The Game is actually trying to keep pace with the needs of its inhabitants. Cap skill books aren't cheap. Making then unreachable is a bad business move. Ratting in 0.0 with 300 people waiting at gates to blob anyone coming in is the fastest and easier way to get rich in eve and turn your -4.3 standing to -1.99 so you don't lose ships to faction police while the game freezes your gui so you can't click to warp :-/ ($300 later in CPU upgrades, sure hope its fixed this). Leave high sec mission runners alone, they are usually their for a reason (i.e. might only get to play eve for 3 hours a week!). Go play with the other work shy people and bother them, they cry more when you pop em anyway as they demand their billion isk ship is invincible ;0 To make a mistake is Human. To make a REALLY BIG mistake, takes a computer
Vibora BR	Posted - 2009.01.13 01:38:00 - [77] Edited by: Vibora BR on 13/01/2009 01:38:22 Did I lose anything? Making ISKs is a pain in the a....s when you are a PVPer. If you think you are too rich, come fight in FW and you'll see where your ISKs goes.
Zaruda Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.13 05:20:00 - [78] My problem with it has always been the whole immersion that is lost with how easy it is to earn ISK. There is cavalier attitude people have towards their ships. Disposable so it takes away from the excitement. I can arm up a Vexor and run out into 0.0 and make a few hundred million in a day. Think about that. Spend another couple of days and we get into the billions. Multiply that by X amount of players and you could be talking trillions. Bring that into the story and imagine what could be done? Make more money than the Amarr Empire and others. Does that make sense to anyone? The whole thing took away a real sense of accomplishment for me. I got sucked into this hole once. I'm pretty glad I got myself out of it because it totally spoiled my Eve experience for 3+ years. I'll never get back that sense of accomplishment I once felt going from a frigate to a cruiser and the 'fear' of losing it in a random encounter but I found other ways now to get some measure of the excitement back.
Space Pinata	Posted - 2009.01.13 08:53:00 - [79] Originally by: Ivana Drake If not for Insurance we would be seeing prices for your average BS skyrocket imo No. Just, no. Prices of battleships would drop from the lack of insurance. The only thing which keeps them from deflating too much is the fact that people would buy them, insure them, and self destruct them if they were cheap enough to make that course of action profitable. Without a reimbursement on battleships, people would not be willing to pay as much. Also, insurance creates more isk. More isk = isk is worth less. Less valuable isk = prices go up.. which means insurance RAISES prices, not lowers them.
Ko Shimin Minmatar Independent Terran Empire Terran Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:13:00 - [80] High sec missions and mining are the only way of decently making isk in highsec apart from griefing small corps asking for isk not to kill them anymore.. In 0.0 you have: - better roid belts - great exploration posibilities. - lucrative ratting - can engage enemies with no worry about losing sec status. 0.0 player claimed space is mostly unavailable to highsec players. You cannot go there unless in good standings with lots of people, otherwise you lose your ships fast. Most of the 0.0 Alliances have a closed door policy, not even recruiting anymore. As a highsec player, your chances of enjoying 0.0 space are very small, and your chances in joining one of the big alliances is even smaller. So, nerfing isk making in highsec would create even a greater imbalance between highsec and 0.0 regions. Highsec is not Heaven, it's just a place were you can gain SP in relative safety to a point. After that point, if you can't make 0.0 your home, you just die slowly as the best of the game content is unavailable to you...
Rennion	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:23:00 - [81] T2 is dirt cheap compared to the early days of my play time. Personally I would like to see a return to thsoe days, pvp only costs a lot of isk if you die a lot. So if you die a lot you should be flying T1, not T2 fitted T2 hulls and throw them away like left over food wrappers because you can make 20mil an hour in high sec. **es me off that you can make that sort of isk in safety, while on "zombie mode" grinding missions and downloading **.
Ko Shimin Minmatar Independent Terran Empire Terran Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:31:00 - [82] Originally by: Rennion T2 is dirt cheap compared to the early days of my play time. Personally I would like to see a return to thsoe days, pvp only costs a lot of isk if you die a lot. So if you die a lot you should be flying T1, not T2 fitted T2 hulls and throw them away like left over food wrappers because you can make 20mil an hour in high sec. **es me off that you can make that sort of isk in safety, while on "zombie mode" grinding missions and downloading **. You call 25m isk per hour a lot??? That kind of isk is made when you hasve good Sp and nice fitted ship. I've spent my time in 0.0. and the only real dangerous moments were when I had to ferry my 0.0 loot to highsec. Now cloaked transports make this easier than ever. You call 25m isk per hour a lot??? How about a faction spawn in the belts that gave me 2.000.000 isk and some 40m isk in mods, a radar site completed that gave me some 20m isk in npc bounty, some 60m in exploration stuff i got from that radar site and again a dread spawn in that rasdar site, that gave me 8m isk in bounty and another 250m in mods, all within 1 hour.. HELL YEAH!!!! NERF HIGHSEC PLS!!!!
Rennion	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:42:00 - [83] Edited by: Rennion on 13/01/2009 09:43:57 Originally by: Ko Shimin Originally by: Rennion T2 is dirt cheap compared to the early days of my play time. Personally I would like to see a return to thsoe days, pvp only costs a lot of isk if you die a lot. So if you die a lot you should be flying T1, not T2 fitted T2 hulls and throw them away like left over food wrappers because you can make 20mil an hour in high sec. **es me off that you can make that sort of isk in safety, while on "zombie mode" grinding missions and downloading . You call 25m isk per hour a lot??? That kind of isk is made when you hasve good Sp and nice fitted ship. I've spent my time in 0.0. and the only real dangerous moments were when I had to ferry my 0.0 loot to highsec. Now cloaked transports make this easier than ever. You call 25m isk per hour a lot??? How about a faction spawn in the belts that gave me 2.000.000 isk and some 40m isk in mods, a radar site completed that gave me some 20m isk in npc bounty, some 60m in exploration stuff i got from that radar site and again a dread spawn in that rasdar site, that gave me 8m isk in bounty and another 250m in mods, all within 1 hour.. HELL YEAH!!!! NERF HIGHSEC PLS!!!! How about you do it all semi afk watching , 23/7 if you so choose? I'm sure you find all those things consistantly, within the hour on the hour every hour. Riiiiight What I am complaining about is the utter ease of making isk with zero risk. 0.0 should be more but it is barely an edge. Why risk flying in nullsec when my little raven alt here can be alt tabbed generating 20mil an hour while I'm on my main doing whatever... Edit for perspective: It costs me about 20~30mil to replace a fully T2 fitted battleship. That means I can lose a T2 fitted battleship every hour without breaking a sweat. Pretty ty if you ask me, hard core pvp for real yo' losing stuff hurts... Oh no, it really doesn't at all except for killboard ***s.
sakana North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:48:00 - [84] if making isk was to hard, why would anyone bother playing the game?
Ko Shimin Minmatar Independent Terran Empire Terran Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:51:00 - [85] My point is that highsec isk making thrugh missioning is OK 0.0 is more dangerous but rewards you more isk. Nerf highsec income, and what are highsec players left with??? Nothing.. no isk in highsec, 0.0 is mostly forbiddn to them. Less isk in highsec would mean that they will even have a hard time making ships to fly during their attempts to go lowsec, attempts that a lot of time end up in a cloning pod..
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.13 13:15:00 - [86] Originally by: mechtech Isk is too easy to make, it's not the same game I started playing 3 years ago. To be honest, I play many fantasy MMOs that have harsher death penalties now. Insurance needs to go away. A typical BS costs between 25-50m to replace. That takes an hour to replace with lvl 4s, mining, or ratting. When I started, I remember that 100m was a lot of isk. By the looks of it, isk is worth about 1/10 as much as it was 3 years ago. I've said this before, but the cost of death and loss in eve is now linked to timesinks. It takes time to get a new ship, resupply, ect. I think that this should be lessened and the monetary loss should be increased. Anyway, I think insurance is the issue. If ships cost more to lose, then there is more of a reason to fly the under used classes like BCs into combat, and variety would be increased. BS are easy to replace because the price has lowered, not because people has more isk. When I started a Dominix 120 million or so. Now it is around 80 millions. So in the past after getting insurance I had to pay, out of my pocket, 40 millions for the hull alone, now the hull has 0 cost as it is totally covered by insurance. More isk than before with a starting character? no. My isk giving more to the same starting characer? yes. so isk aren't worth less, they are worth more as they can buy more. Items are worth less, isk production is the same than before, result more isk in the wallet and more items in the hangar.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.13 13:22:00 - [87] Originally by: Rennion T2 is dirt cheap compared to the early days of my play time. Personally I would like to see a return to thsoe days, pvp only costs a lot of isk if you die a lot. So if you die a lot you should be flying T1, not T2 fitted T2 hulls and throw them away like left over food wrappers because you can make 20mil an hour in high sec. Uhm… if you die a lot and spend a couple of hours in highsec to replace your T2 ship, guess where that ISK ends up: in 0.0. I suppose this mean we should nerf 0.0 because it's too easy to make ISK off of people's T2 expenditures.
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.13 19:54:00 - [88] Originally by: Davina Braben Making ISK is ass dull. The less time you have to spend grinding, the more time you can spend pewing. The more time you can spend pewing the more entertaining EVE is. Who cares what the balance is for the other end of the game? And that nails it on the nose. It doesn't matter if I can make 20 mill an hour mining Veld. who the hell wants to sit and mine veld for 10 hrs a day?

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