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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Cibo Seidensha
Amarr Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2009.01.13 17:33:00 -
[91]
So, if the teams wouldve been chosen from a pool of 24h registrations at random, how would that have improved the chance of big alliances getting in?
If anything, their chance to participate wouldve gone down, due to an increasing number of small alliances registrating over the 24h time (there are more small alliances than big ones...). |
Tiger Trader
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Posted - 2009.01.13 17:51:00 -
[92]
I really dont understand the argument here, CCP clearly stated the rules of entry and application, the whole of eve had chance to have there say and put forward complaints if they thought the rules were unfair, as far as I know this did not happen so the process took place (fair or not). END OF!
Can we not move on and look forward to the upcoming event rather than dwell on thing that can not and will not be changed!
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Lady Alystra
Amarr Big Bong Quantum Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2009.01.13 17:52:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Cibo Seidensha So, if the teams wouldve been chosen from a pool of 24h registrations at random, how would that have improved the chance of big alliances getting in?
If anything, their chance to participate wouldve gone down, due to an increasing number of small alliances registrating over the 24h time (there are more small alliances than big ones...).
In my opinion, it would give all a fair chance, regardless of size.
Lady A
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Godholio
Minmatar Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2009.01.13 18:21:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Blazde
I totally am questioning phoney shell alliances like The Five and (as JS LiamElms pointed out) Prime Orbital Systems. Those are the worst. The point is entering the alliance tourney should not be a simple case of paying 1 bil + 500m deposit. Just as entering the Olympics isn't as simple as me declaring my back yard a sovereign state.
Prime Orbital Systems is hardly phony nor is it a shell alliance. It has a proud history and when we realized that we could make use of it to have an opportunity at competing in the tourney, we took it. Good thing too, seeing as how our "main" alliance (who shall not be named), didn't get their application in time. So if it weren't for Prime Orbital Systems, we would not be competing at all. |
Captain Thunk
Vale Tudo.
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Posted - 2009.01.13 18:26:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Godholio
Originally by: Blazde
I totally am questioning phoney shell alliances like The Five and (as JS LiamElms pointed out) Prime Orbital Systems. Those are the worst. The point is entering the alliance tourney should not be a simple case of paying 1 bil + 500m deposit. Just as entering the Olympics isn't as simple as me declaring my back yard a sovereign state.
Prime Orbital Systems is hardly phony nor is it a shell alliance. It has a proud history and when we realized that we could make use of it to have an opportunity at competing in the tourney, we took it. Good thing too, seeing as how our "main" alliance (who shall not be named), didn't get their application in time. So if it weren't for Prime Orbital Systems, we would not be competing at all.
Flipside of that is you could have ended up taking a slot for your self-confessed "main" alliance and also a slot with POS your "alt" alliance. I don't think applying multiple times is a good solution to the problem discussed in this thread.
Captain Thunk |
Godholio
Minmatar Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2009.01.13 18:31:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
Flipside of that is you could have ended up taking a slot for your self-confessed "main" alliance and also a slot with POS your "alt" alliance. I don't think applying multiple times is a good solution to the problem discussed in this thread.
Captain Thunk
We initially intended POS to go to the tourney so that our players who may not have "qualified" for the main team could still have a shot at competition. However upon speaking to the guy who was in charge of sending in the main alliance's application, he wasn't able to do it until several hours after all the slots had been filled. So POS's application alone wasn't enough to have an impact. |
Ikar Kaltin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.13 18:37:00 -
[97]
So you were in effect trying to enter 2 teams into the alliance tournament? |
Charlie Luciano
The Administration Cosa Nostra.
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Posted - 2009.01.13 18:42:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Lady Alystra Edited by: Lady Alystra on 13/01/2009 17:13:01 I am the CEO of the executor corp of a rather small alliance and there is no way I would hand over my CEO position to anyone but a very close RL friend - and the change of CEO takes time, is a hassle all over. It should not have to be necessary to enter a tournament!!!
Lady A
Change of CEO takes all but a right-click on your own char, resign as CEO, choose your replacement and done. At least make the effort of checking facts before posting bull (and if you honestly have no directors that you can trust with such a simple task, well then you're probably screwed anyway tbh)...
Oh and did I mention dTja vu btw? Didn't we also have people from non-participating alliances state that last years tournament would be crap without all the big alliances in? Didn't we have several big alliances whine about not participating because they couldn't be bothered signing up at the time CCP opened sign ups? Didn't we also have just as a successful tournament as the ones before that (one would think it was successful since they decided to do another one)? All in all it seems like we have to go through this every single tournament - whine about rules, whine about prizes, whine about whines, whine about non-participation because someone didn't bother doing their homework and finally whine about EVE-TV smacking alliances they don't like...
How much ISK should we bet on me being able to copy/paste this to a similar thread in 6 months time when they have a new tournament? |
Mes Ren
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.13 19:33:00 -
[99]
I've said this before, but I'm going to reiterate. We wouldn't be having this problem if 128+ teams were allowed in the tournament. NO ONE expected to have this much interest in the tournament, look at the facts: All 64 slots were filled within a couple hours AT THE MOST. Even if 128 teams were allowed, based on the interest, we would still have had issues.
I've been putting a lot of thought into it, and I believe I have a potential solution for next time. First, CCP would try to determine an approximate interest in the tournament. This would be done with a pre-registration open for a few days. It would use the same mechanic we currently have for registering (only executor can pre-register). This pre-registration would be only used for purposes of getting a rough number of interest -- similar to a poll, and would give no obligation to those who pre-register to actually participate.
Second, CCP would use this information in conjunction with other internal factors to determine the number of slots available in the tournament -- this number would most likely be less than the number of pre-registants.
Third, CCP would do determine the dates for the tournament (with some additional "pre-qualifier" dates prior to the official dates), announce the rules, etc., and open sign-up at the appropriate time as they have this time with a first come, first served type signup. There would still be the reserved spot same as this tournament.
Fourth, once the slots have been filled in the first come, first served fashion, overflow would still get a chance to get in to a select number of 'overflow slots' based on a "pre-qualifier round" - single elimination, 10 min rounds. If this were determined to be too much additional work, a random draw could be used for the overflow slots - eliminating the need for pre-qualifier rounds.
________________________
No Trademark -- Mes Ren, Mes Builder -- -- CEO --
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2009.01.13 19:51:00 -
[100]
It was proposed during the last tournament that the final 16 at least should get a call before hand checking to see if they were interested before releasing the slots to the mob.
I don't see a great many teams of interest to follow in this line-up. For there to be upsets there need to be something to upset, Mostly Obscure vs Pancreatic Lesion just isn't that match-up, less Beeker more Don King.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.01.13 19:58:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Cibo Seidensha So, if the teams wouldve been chosen from a pool of 24h registrations at random, how would that have improved the chance of big alliances getting in?
If anything, their chance to participate wouldve gone down, due to an increasing number of small alliances registrating over the 24h time (there are more small alliances than big ones...).
Any lottery type arrangement lends itself to exploitation through metagaming (current process can be metagamed but would be more difficult).
Big 0.0 alliances do metagaming better then most.
Hence, lottery benefits those with the isk, accounts and alts to create numerous 'shell' alliances so that they can be assured that the pilots in those alliances that want to fly in the tourny get the chance.
This is a PvP Tourney. As befits a PvP tourney the sign up was PvP (first come first serve). As in combat, those alliances that were better prepared, dedicated and could press a button faster than their opponent won the first unofficial round. Sounds like EVE to me. I see no problem - just entitled, narcissitic whining.
Carry on though. It's funny.
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Cyan Blackadder
CBI
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Posted - 2009.01.13 20:03:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Tiger Trader I really dont understand the argument here, CCP clearly stated the rules of entry and application, the whole of eve had chance to have there say and put forward complaints if they thought the rules were unfair, as far as I know this did not happen so the process took place (fair or not). END OF!
Can we not move on and look forward to the upcoming event rather than dwell on thing that can not and will not be changed!
Do you have any ideas of your own?
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Godholio
Minmatar Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2009.01.13 20:17:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Ikar Kaltin So you were in effect trying to enter 2 teams into the alliance tournament?
Nope, POS is corp-only, it does not represent the alliance as a whole. The point I was trying to make is simply that we did not "steal" the slot away from our main alliance. ----------------------------------- YARR!!! |
Sakura Nihil
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.01.13 23:27:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Lady Alystra
Originally by: Cibo Seidensha So, if the teams wouldve been chosen from a pool of 24h registrations at random, how would that have improved the chance of big alliances getting in?
If anything, their chance to participate wouldve gone down, due to an increasing number of small alliances registrating over the 24h time (there are more small alliances than big ones...).
In my opinion, it would give all a fair chance, regardless of size.
Actually not a bad idea, gives everyone a 24h window to signup, and then let's CCP pass any blame off to luck and/or probability.
Win-win, tbh. Certainly better than button-camping. |
Morris Falter
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.01.13 23:37:00 -
[105]
Biggest fun in a tournament is seeing the underdog give bigger names a good kicking. Guess I'm in a minority there..
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MsCat
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Posted - 2009.01.13 23:40:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Originally by: Lady Alystra
Originally by: Cibo Seidensha So, if the teams wouldve been chosen from a pool of 24h registrations at random, how would that have improved the chance of big alliances getting in?
If anything, their chance to participate wouldve gone down, due to an increasing number of small alliances registrating over the 24h time (there are more small alliances than big ones...).
In my opinion, it would give all a fair chance, regardless of size.
Actually not a bad idea, gives everyone a 24h window to signup, and then let's CCP pass any blame off to luck and/or probability.
Win-win, tbh. Certainly better than button-camping.
And the whiners that are whining now would still whine if they did'nt get in. Wouldn't change that fact
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Suboran
Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.01.13 23:53:00 -
[107]
top alliances should get priority over these crappy ones in empire that nobody has heard of
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Lady Alystra
Amarr Big Bong Quantum Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2009.01.13 23:55:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Tiger Trader
Can we not move on and look forward to the upcoming event rather than dwell on thing that can not and will not be changed!
Originally by: MsCat
And the whiners that are whining now would still whine if they did'nt get in. Wouldn't change that fact
Dear Ms ***** Cat
It seems that you have created 2 different alts with the solo purpose of spamming this thread. Isn't that kind of lame?
Lady A Because we DGAF!
... and you can DGAF too.
DGAF recruitment thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=471457 |
Charlie Luciano
The Administration Cosa Nostra.
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Posted - 2009.01.14 00:32:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Suboran top alliances should get priority over these crappy ones in empire that nobody has heard of
Would that not exclude your own alliance from the tournament?
Point being; how would you rate the alliances (apart from the obvious of taking the final 8 or 16 from last tournament, which then might mean that these "top" alliances may not be included anyway) without actually going by size, amount of outposts owned, amount of caps, amount of smack on CAOD etc.? It's a very slippery slope once you start saying certain alliances should be admitted based solely on their achievements in the real universe of EVE (because I think we have all agreed on the tournament not having much to do with how pvp is normally conducted on TQ)... |
Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:11:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Suboran top alliances should get priority over these crappy ones in empire that nobody has heard of
Our "crappy" empire alliance certainly hopes we draw your "top" alliance:
Open mouth and insert foot.
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McFly
C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.14 02:52:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
Originally by: Suboran top alliances should get priority over these crappy ones in empire that nobody has heard of
Our "crappy" empire alliance certainly hopes we draw your "top" alliance:
Open mouth and insert foot.
Another 'Crappy' empire alliance ringing in.
Also if the tourney's only pulled from previous tournament brackets, than no new alliances would get in. No I totally agree with many people about the small alliances that dont show for matches, or field comedy setups. Like that guy I think it was AT IV that was piloting 4 characters trying to use a disco phoon to pop incoming missiles or something or rather.
Anyway the point is, there will never be a perfect system, are there some decent suggestions here yes. Are there some ridiculous ones, most definitely. The tournament has a long history of underdogs coming out of no where and toppling a running favorite. AT V saw a lot of this particularly, Noteriety, The Kadeshi, Cry Havoc, and some others.
The question comes down to, how do you judge a tournament team? Cry Havoc created their alliance shortly before signups for AT V and had an awesome showing climbing to the Semi-Finals. They held no space, had not outposts, operated out of empire at the time. Yet they had every right to be there in my opinion. So for all the fanboys out there *****ing about not getting in...
Sorry, yes system is flawed, unlike AT V there was ample notice of who what when and how signups were going to take place. Those genuinely interested made the necessary preparations to ensure their Alliance was in the tournament.
Anyone who said, it's alright I'll just signup when I get the chance... took the risk of not making it in the list. 64 slots, hundreds of posts in the rules/signups/AT VI stickied threads, and people are shocked that the signups were filled in less than a couple hours? Pay attention to what was going on, take the necessary steps if it's important to you, and guess what you get a slot. I did.
--McFly--
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MsCat
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Posted - 2009.01.14 03:22:00 -
[112]
Edited by: MsCat on 14/01/2009 03:27:35
Originally by: Lady Alystra
Originally by: Tiger Trader
Can we not move on and look forward to the upcoming event rather than dwell on thing that can not and will not be changed!
Originally by: MsCat
And the whiners that are whining now would still whine if they did'nt get in. Wouldn't change that fact
Dear Ms ***** Cat
It seems that you have created 2 different alts with the solo purpose of spamming this thread. Isn't that kind of lame?
Lady A
wtf are you talking about? not an npc corp there champ. edit: and im way to lazy to use 2 alts to spam a thread lol. |
Joder
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.01.14 09:18:00 -
[113]
Originally by: McFly
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
Originally by: Suboran top alliances should get priority over these crappy ones in empire that nobody has heard of
Our "crappy" empire alliance certainly hopes we draw your "top" alliance:
Open mouth and insert foot.
Another 'Crappy' empire alliance ringing in.
Also if the tourney's only pulled from previous tournament brackets, than no new alliances would get in. No I totally agree with many people about the small alliances that dont show for matches, or field comedy setups. Like that guy I think it was AT IV that was piloting 4 characters trying to use a disco phoon to pop incoming missiles or something or rather.
Anyway the point is, there will never be a perfect system, are there some decent suggestions here yes. Are there some ridiculous ones, most definitely. The tournament has a long history of underdogs coming out of no where and toppling a running favorite. AT V saw a lot of this particularly, Noteriety, The Kadeshi, Cry Havoc, and some others.
The question comes down to, how do you judge a tournament team? Cry Havoc created their alliance shortly before signups for AT V and had an awesome showing climbing to the Semi-Finals. They held no space, had not outposts, operated out of empire at the time. Yet they had every right to be there in my opinion. So for all the fanboys out there *****ing about not getting in...
Sorry, yes system is flawed, unlike AT V there was ample notice of who what when and how signups were going to take place. Those genuinely interested made the necessary preparations to ensure their Alliance was in the tournament.
Anyone who said, it's alright I'll just signup when I get the chance... took the risk of not making it in the list. 64 slots, hundreds of posts in the rules/signups/AT VI stickied threads, and people are shocked that the signups were filled in less than a couple hours? Pay attention to what was going on, take the necessary steps if it's important to you, and guess what you get a slot. I did.
--McFly--
Another "Crappy" alliance here.
Mcfly hit the nail on the head, CryHavoc are a great example, I really hope we can do half as well as they did. (mistress suffering we are coming for you )
We as an alliance never want to control space, hold outposts, take part in the blob fest that is 0.0 or spam CAOD. Does that mean we do not deserve a place in the tourney even though I took a day off work to enter us?
/me preps his disco phoon and 4 accounts, bugger i only have 3 monitors
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.01.14 12:07:00 -
[114]
Originally by: CCP Claw
This is not the 'big alliance tournament' nor the '0.0 spaceholding alliance tournament'. This is the Alliance Tournament and all alliances, big and small, are welcome to compete. We have made a major step up from last time in terms of teams entered and we are really looking forward to this new tournament as I know many others are.
Shame because this format is from my point of view (a mostly impartial viewer) not as interesting.
In my opinion allow higher end equipment and/or raise entrance fee significantly and actually give something of worth as a reward. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
csebal
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2009.01.14 12:13:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Charlie Luciano
Oh and did I mention dTja vu btw? Didn't we also have people from non-participating alliances state that last years tournament would be crap without all the big alliances in? Didn't we have several big alliances whine about not participating because they couldn't be bothered signing up at the time CCP opened sign ups? Didn't we also have just as a successful tournament as the ones before that (one would think it was successful since they decided to do another one)? All in all it seems like we have to go through this every single tournament - whine about rules, whine about prizes, whine about whines, whine about non-participation because someone didn't bother doing their homework and finally whine about EVE-TV smacking alliances they don't like...
Actually, whining about non-participation for AT5 did result in a rather important change.. the reservation of slots for the top performenrs from past tournaments. You look at that change and tell me it isnt a good one, then go on whining about the whiners. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Phear the arrows of the HUNs >>----> |
Charlie Luciano
The Administration Cosa Nostra.
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Posted - 2009.01.14 12:49:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Charlie Luciano on 14/01/2009 12:49:24
Originally by: csebal
Originally by: Charlie Luciano
Oh and did I mention dTja vu btw? Didn't we also have people from non-participating alliances state that last years tournament would be crap without all the big alliances in? Didn't we have several big alliances whine about not participating because they couldn't be bothered signing up at the time CCP opened sign ups? Didn't we also have just as a successful tournament as the ones before that (one would think it was successful since they decided to do another one)? All in all it seems like we have to go through this every single tournament - whine about rules, whine about prizes, whine about whines, whine about non-participation because someone didn't bother doing their homework and finally whine about EVE-TV smacking alliances they don't like...
Actually, whining about non-participation for AT5 did result in a rather important change.. the reservation of slots for the top performenrs from past tournaments. You look at that change and tell me it isnt a good one, then go on whining about the whiners.
I never said anything about last years whining not resulting in some improvements nor have I said that reservations for top performers is a bad idea. Furthermore I'm sure some of the whining from this tournament will result in improvements for the next tournament, however that's not what some of the whining is about - some alliances (non of which were top performers last tournament) somehow think they should receive preferential treatment just because they hold a lot of space, can field 100 caps or whatever.
All I said is that it's a never-ending circle of whine, and obviously some is justified and helps improving the tournaments. Other is just whine because it's easier to blame CCP for a crap tournament than admitting that you ****ed up... _____________________________
A Parola d'onuri vali sangu |
KTOZ
Caldari Evil Plankton The Church.
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Posted - 2009.01.14 13:35:00 -
[117]
For the next time maybe the prewious tournements top performers can go directly to the finals So there will be more open slots in the qualification rounds.
But it s ridiculous to say xx allience is a big allience so they must get in before yy allience who have only 20 ppl.. If you were a top performer in a prewious tourney you are a big allience for the tourney or no one care about how big you are on eve's political map. |
Dakaris Zulu
Minmatar Red 42
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Posted - 2009.01.14 16:38:00 -
[118]
Maybe a similar format to the FIFA world cup would be better.
Automatic Place for the Holder.
Unlimited amount of entrants allowed which are then sorted out via qualification groups over say 1-2 months previous to the actual final.
The top 16 teams from the previous tournament are seeded and goes into a top tier to avoid each other in qualification
The next 16 are seeded into a 2nd tier and so on.
All other entrants go into a hat and are picked into qualifying groups.
Group Winners go into finals
Runners up also if numbers allow and 3rd place guys go into a playoff (maybe 1v1 inty fight penalty shoot out scenario) all dependant on number of entrants.
This way only those alliances who are in the final deserve to be there by actually fighting their way there rather than just being at home hitting F5.
Also extending signup to either a day or weekend should allow everyone to apply.
Maybe getting someone to run the events part of eve like I think someone said earlier wouldn't be a bad idea hey? I bet there are a few decent candidates in the game capable of doing a good job.
Cheers o/ |
F90OEX
F9X
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Posted - 2009.01.14 19:23:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Blazde
Originally by: Rajere If you wanna argue the alliance tournament is drifting further away from "real" alliances, then why aren't you questioning The Five? or Green Alliance from last tourney? Or the 4 spots held for whoever the plex runners deem their champion from FW? Most of those entries are probably place holder alliances and they will be populated by the time the tournament begins, but even if they aren't, <50 member alliances have done well in the past, and with the rules this tourney, they could easily go all the way & win this one.
I totally am questioning phoney shell alliances like The Five and (as JS LiamElms pointed out) Prime Orbital Systems. Those are the worst. The point is entering the alliance tourney should not be a simple case of paying 1 bil + 500m deposit. Just as entering the Olympics isn't as simple as me declaring my back yard a sovereign state.
It should be for real alliances that are relevant politically & militarily all year round. And no I'm not discriminating against small alliances, or empire alliances, let's have lots of them it makes for good fun and it's a very important channel for them to gain recognition. But there needs to be some minimum criteria. Exactly what I don't know but here's food-for-thought:
Alliance logo submission process
Quote: Only logos from alliances that have been in effect for six months or more and have over 150 active members will be accepted.
CONCORD Makes Revolutionary Statement of Recognition For Alliances as Starbase Components Hit SCC Markets
Quote: In a surprise announcement at 12:00 EVT today Irhes Angireh, Head of CONCORD's Inner Circle, declared CONCORD to be in full official support of the outer rim alliances. Further, she stated that official provision had been made for alliances to, for the first time in history, become recorded entities on the level of nation-states.
...
What a load of Bollo@# .. Anyone who plays Eve who meets the requirements should be able to enter. There are 1000s of players, who even if they where in a large alliance would never have the chance to be apart of the tourney. If you even bothered to read the thread there where many large 0.0 alliances who did not even apply during the time frame.
And comparing the Olympics to the tourney LOL hahahhaha |
Vily
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.15 02:09:00 -
[120]
its a shame that 15-20 minutes where the sign-up was down was when we attempted to enter and was told it was full.
and once again
why on gods green earth then make us WAIT three WEEKS to tell us?
what a farce |
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