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Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.01.12 17:51:00 - [1] Ok. To make it short. I really dont know, who would even came with idea, to open registration to 6th tournament @ 12.00 GMT. There is alot of people, who play eve, dont have access to PC's while at work. When CCP opened registration process, I was busy in the university, and i was unable to register straight @ 12.00 GMT. I received few calls on my phone from fellow corp members, regarding "give acc and pw, we will register". Keeping in mind, that CCP is bashing players for account sharing i responded, that i will do it myself. According to my transaction log history, i transferred 500m isk to CCP Mindstar @ 14.23 EVE time of 19th dec. Now - i`m unable to see my team amongst registred teams. Gentlemens, organizing those events - is pain, and i know it. Still i`m unable to get, why you turned registration into "press button earlier than your opponent". I`m here to propose slight system change. Top 16 teams from previous tournament = getting into group stage. Everybody rest is fighting each other, using single elimination system, till we will have 64 teams, who will compete for main prize. Thank you.
Vader Crane Minmatar Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.01.12 18:16:00 - [2] Everything the man said. I didnt stand a chance getting our alliance signed up neither. Fully supported.
Lex Alandar Cskillzone DAMAGE INC...	Posted - 2009.01.12 18:20:00 - [3] Agreed. The signup process was a complete debacle. Everyone with their fingers hovering over the button at 1200 GMT made it. Everyone else was ** out of luck. Really I don't know why they 're-opened' applications when all the slots were clearly filled after 5 minutes. Requesting an actual inclusive signup process for the next one, so it's not just this 'I have no life so I can sit here waiting to click a button at exactly 1200GMT' bull ***.
Zhang Ramses Chaos From Order Manifest Destiny.	Posted - 2009.01.12 18:44:00 - [4] Originally by: Evil Thug I`m here to propose slight system change. Top 16 teams from previous tournament = getting into group stage. Everybody rest is fighting each other, using single elimination system, till we will have 64 teams, who will compete for main prize. Thank you. So...how high did AAA place in last year's tournament?
Necronus Amarr Monks of War United Legion	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:00:00 - [5] Edited by: Necronus on 12/01/2009 19:03:02 Edited by: Necronus on 12/01/2009 19:00:26 I agree with the problem , do not agree with the solution. I think you just should not link registration on first come first serve basis on 1 person.(Alliance executor) I think it will be better if anybody could register but for instance untill the start of the tournament the registered team should get confirmed legitimate by ally executor. Also it is important to note that when demand exceeds in twice provided slots. First-come-first serve basis is not a very good option. There are people that are waiting for alliance tournaments for half-year/one year to participate and how do you think they will feel when they cannot get in due to some misfortunate timing of OTHER person? Alliance is an entity not an executor only. And one more question to CCP. What sense does 500 mil isk fee has? It gets refunded. It is not even serious money for any alliance.
Rippey Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:18:00 - [6] Can only agree 100% Badly flawed system, surely there must be another way. If not, maybe -A-, BoB, SE, RZR, TCF and us can have our own "unofficial grumpy-farts-that-didnt-get-in" tournament. :)
Seriya Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Rippey Can only agree 100% Badly flawed system, surely there must be another way. If not, maybe -A-, BoB, SE, RZR, TCF and us can have our own "unofficial grumpy-farts-that-didnt-get-in" tournament. :) I must concur, bit of a joke that the above aren't involved when they want to be.
Burrito RageQuit Croatian Knifefighters Mercenary Forces.	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:25:00 - [8] Agreed for what it's worth.
Jordan Musgrat H A V O C Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:36:00 - [9] Agreed. You should allow all alliances to compete in a preliminary round, round robin would work. Single elimination would be somewhat unfair though. You wouldn't need to video the footage, or do commentaries, only have a GM run the matches, and post the results.
Webb Mordock GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:47:00 - [10] (11:46 AM) Webb_Mordock: Evil Thug is on eve-o *****ing about not being able to sign up for the alliance tournament (11:46 AM) Webb_Mordock: hehe (11:46 AM) Kokayn: hwhat (11:46 AM) Kokayn: why can't he? (11:46 AM) zudge: too late I assume (11:46 AM) Webb_Mordock: he was too late (11:46 AM) Webb_Mordock: haha (11:46 AM) Kokayn: hahaha (11:46 AM) Kokayn: that's awesome
Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Zhang Ramses Originally by: Evil Thug I`m here to propose slight system change. Top 16 teams from previous tournament = getting into group stage. Everybody rest is fighting each other, using single elimination system, till we will have 64 teams, who will compete for main prize. Thank you. So...how high did AAA place in last year's tournament? We havent participated in last year's tournament. Hence we would like to fight through our way to participate in 6th tournament.
Vily Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:57:00 - [12] agree thug. even worse should be noted that we WOULD have been signed up early enough, and yet because of a bug were told it was full only to find out that you could still sign up for hours afterwards. THEN to make us wait 3 weeks to find out? this has been a farce
Sobic Kurophsky Multiversal Enterprise Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.12 20:16:00 - [13] I for one would like to see the larger alliances in the mix. I follow the wars and politics, and seeing it play out in the tourny is priceless. On a completely diff thought... I wonder if "Tournament organizer" is a dreaded title in CCP offices. --> Insert hot chick sig here, with minor eve reference<--
Ard UnjiiGo The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.01.12 20:24:00 - [14] Sign up instructions posted well in advance? Check and fair. First come/First serve with provisions made for 4 FW alliances and 12 successful alliances from past 2 tourneys? Check and fair. Mechanics that permit you to have arranged for someone else to be authorized to sign you up if you were unavailable? Check and fair. Buggy initial sign up process? Check and unfair - but so is life. Those that were prepared were not held back from signing up. People complaining because they didn't a) follow the directions or b) plan sufficiently to ensure they could sign up at the given time and now it's someone else's fault? Double Check and pathetic. TL/DR version: poasting in an elitist whiners/victims thread
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Otherworld Empire Productions	Posted - 2009.01.12 20:56:00 - [15] well first come first serve is pretty gay when it means top alliances don't make it in but hey, doubt they'll change anything at this point so shrug
Dakaris Zulu Minmatar Red 42	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:01:00 - [16] CCP shows the world of MMO's how to screw things up again, man they should win an award for this one lol.. Anyhoo back to it, why not actually make people qualify to get into the finals ala footballs world cup rather than the shambles we have atm with several alliances tbh not worthy of shining many of those left outs shoes, if your going to have an alliance tournament then fecking have one where we find out who is the best and not who won the sweepstake to get in it. with many of the big guns gone and replaced by largely poor pvp wannabies its gonna be a lolfest of epic proportions, still gonna watch though if they get sorted out in time.. Maybe next time have the 64/128 or however many actually earning the right to win title eh guys?? not too much to ask is it?
ddemec ZER0.	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:03:00 - [17] aggree with ET gayness... and with that system i will not participate in ally tourney cuz of work :( aaarrggh and one more: GIVE ME MY 500mil BACK PLS!!!
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:03:00 - [18] Originally by: Seriya Originally by: Rippey Can only agree 100% Badly flawed system, surely there must be another way. If not, maybe -A-, BoB, SE, RZR, TCF and us can have our own "unofficial grumpy-farts-that-didnt-get-in" tournament. :) I must concur, bit of a joke that the above aren't involved when they want to be. Big alliances does not mean they will be good in the tournament. It also doesn't mean the competition will be any worse with what we have now or that because whatever alliance didn't make it, that the tournament is a joke. Last tournament was outstanding without BoB, -a-, se, tcf or razor. This tournament has a lot of good teams and I will thoroughly enjoy it without the above mentioned alliances. 5th tournament took about 2 days for signups to fill, this tournament took a few hours. That is a problem. People should be let in if they want to play and can bring a full team to each tournament battle. I would: -Increase fee to 1 billion isk -Accept every signup. Signups available during one weekend. -Rapid fire rounds to determine the last 48 teams. 1/2 the ships allowed, 1/2 the time, and 1/2 the work involved. With the gank style of this tournament, you can easily have 5 minute rounds and if it is a pre-qualifying tourny then you can boot out any teams that are acting like idiots or show up late or disobey the rules. Hell, you could even do something very fun like have each alliance executor (or team leader) get into a HAC and then drop them all @ 0km and the last 48 standing get in. lols. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:20:00 - [19] More people involved is definitely better than less. I'd love to see AAA, Eternal Rapture, STUGH, RZR, and pretty much any other large group show up and participate. The signup process shouldn't make it hard to get in. It should make it hard to not get in.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Otherworld Empire Productions	Posted - 2009.01.12 22:05:00 - [20] i wouldn't say it'll be a lolfest, i mean we do have teams like Hun Reloaded, Pandemic Legion, Ev0ke, Cry Havoc and The Star Fraction competing.. Was pretty happy to see GoonSwarm in there too :)
Kuranta Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.12 22:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo Sign up instructions posted well in advance? Check and fair. First come/First serve with provisions made for 4 FW alliances and 12 successful alliances from past 2 tourneys? Check and fair. Mechanics that permit you to have arranged for someone else to be authorized to sign you up if you were unavailable? Check and fair. Buggy initial sign up process? Check and unfair - but so is life. Those that were prepared were not held back from signing up. People complaining because they didn't a) follow the directions or b) plan sufficiently to ensure they could sign up at the given time and now it's someone else's fault? Double Check and pathetic. TL/DR version: poasting in an elitist whiners/victims thread Truth spoken. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk well first come first serve is pretty gay when it means top alliances don't make it in but hey, doubt they'll change anything at this point so shrug What makes those alliances you speak of "top"? Beeing big? Having fought/won in previous tournaments? Renowned in the forumss? I think not. Chances were equal. So are alliances when it comes to the tourney. A system where any alliance would be accepted and the participants would be determined in preliminary rounds might be too much of a hassle to CCP. Maybe we'll have another system next time, maybe not. Adapt or..don't take part.
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.12 22:12:00 - [22] /signed. crappy to see some of the top teams missing
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Otherworld Empire Productions	Posted - 2009.01.12 22:30:00 - [23] Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 12/01/2009 22:30:59 Originally by: Kuranta What makes those alliances you speak of "top"? Beeing big? Having fought/won in previous tournaments? Renowned in the forumss? I think not. Chances were equal. So are alliances when it comes to the tourney. size matters, having done well in previous tournaments likewise, high profile ingame and on forums also matters, reputation likewise.. alliances shouldn't be equal when it comes to tourney since some will make for more interesting / entertaining fights than others, which makes for a better tournament unknown alliances making a name for themselves is all well and good but it's much better if they get to do so against the game's top alliances, nobody would've cared about star fraction winning by using 10 thoraxes if it hadn't been against BoB..
Viqer Fell Minmatar When Hippo Attacks Go Wrong	Posted - 2009.01.12 22:32:00 - [24] system this year was a ****ing joke tbh
Kuranta Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.12 22:52:00 - [25] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk unknown alliances making a name for themselves is all well and good but it's much better if they get to do so against the game's top alliances, nobody would've cared about star fraction winning by using 10 thoraxes if it hadn't been against BoB.. I, for my part don't care all that much for politics. If the participants offer a good and enjoyable fight (which does not depend on the name, size, profile or anything other than good skills of the pilots) - thats all I care about. Sure, having large and known alliances and / or arc enemies fight each other does add spice to the whole thing, but I don't want to see the same alliances fight each other every tournament all over again and bash eacht other on the forum afterwards. Since the current tournament has some of those "high profile" alliances in, some not, it seems to be quite ballanced.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Evil Thug I`m here to propose slight system change. Top 16 teams from previous tournament = getting into group stage. Everybody rest is fighting each other, using single elimination system, till we will have 64 teams, who will compete for main prize. Thank you. Though I never personally have any problems getting SF into the tournaments (eve capable laptop at work with GSM internet access = tapity tap-tap at midday") - I CAN definitely see that the first come first served system from an arbitary time is not the best way to go about these things. The system you propose would be far superior ET since it would give EVERYONE a shot from the pre-qualifier and reward consistent good performance. And as Mistress Suffering says, ideally you want as many people as possible to have a shot at this so who cares if we have 100+ alliances fighting for the 48 random slots - just make a random draw shoot a random draw in a qualifier and put the 48 teams with the highest points through. Thats a robust system that can grow with Eve and nobody gets to go home feeling cheated of the chance to compete entirely. If we don't get confirmation that CCP are prepared to make the change for the next one independently ET, I'd suggest you put in a Jita Park suggestion for the CSM to raise it as a formal suggestion in a couple of months to make sure its heard formally.
Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:08:00 - [27] Thank you for support guys. More responces, and may be we will see responce from GMs As for "hey, he is leader of big alliance, lets smack him". Guys, keep in mind, that i never talked about : "hey we are top dog ! allow us into tournament". I`m talking from position of participant. My alliance was unable to get into this tourney, only because its leader had some business in real life. If you do think that this is fair, ok.
Boma Airaken The Divine Comedy Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:18:00 - [28] I actually agree with 99% of the people criticizing the system they used this time around. I would have done it much differently, and I hope that CCP will listen to alot of the suggestions about a single elimination cluster**** next time around as it would keep people like us out of the final stages of the tournament most likely, while still giving us and people like us a shot at it. I think its extremely important for the little guys to have a chance at giving it a go, but not just because their obsessive executor got up at 3am to push a button and make an isk transaction prior to going back to bed. My two cents anyways.
Impolite Andevil The Shadow Knights Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:32:00 - [29] Honestly, if the slots filled within a few hours, in addition to making changes to the first-come first-served method of signups, I would propose adding another layer to the tournament to accomodate the obviously much larger pool of interest. By all means increase the fees, etc, but let's expand the tournament.
Blazde 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:34:00 - [30] 6 Atrocitas Members: 27 20 Divine 0rder Members: 13 25 Fifth Freedom Members: 24 41 Otherworld Empire Productions Members: 29 43 Prime Orbital Systems Members: 11 Wt-flying-f 57 The InterBus Initiative Members: 14 I'm all in favour of giving smaller alliances more opportunities, and the alliance tourney is certainly a good opportunity for an up-and-coming alliance to make a name for themselves. The problem is it's an alliance tourney, and the entire concept of an alliance has been totally devalued in the last couple of years. One of my alliance's corporation's alt corp's alt corp (reread to make sure you get it) has more members than some of the above successful entries. _
Blastil	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:52:00 - [31] Originally by: Rippey maybe -A-, BoB, SE, RZR, TCF and us can have our own "unofficial grumpy-farts-that-didnt-get-in" tournament. Nothing of value was lost. Besides, its not like -A-, BoB, SE, RZR, and TCF can do anything but blob relentlessly and crash server nodes. Since the alliance tournament is about SMALL GANG pvp, i'm glad to see the *****s that killed it stuck on the outside looking in. ** you guys.
Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.01.13 00:07:00 - [32] Thinking, that large claiming alliances is unable to do anything in small gang warfare is mistake.
Dapanman1 Amarr Beets and Gravy Syndicate The InterBus Initiative	Posted - 2009.01.13 00:27:00 - [33] Originally by: Blazde 6 Atrocitas Members: 27 20 Divine 0rder Members: 13 25 Fifth Freedom Members: 24 41 Otherworld Empire Productions Members: 29 43 Prime Orbital Systems Members: 11 Wt-flying-f 57 The InterBus Initiative Members: 14 I'm all in favour of giving smaller alliances more opportunities, and the alliance tourney is certainly a good opportunity for an up-and-coming alliance to make a name for themselves. The problem is it's an alliance tourney, and the entire concept of an alliance has been totally devalued in the last couple of years. One of my alliance's corporation's alt corp's alt corp (reread to make sure you get it) has more members than some of the above successful entries. Yet you still didn't manage to sign up properly.
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Sangre Azul	Posted - 2009.01.13 00:29:00 - [34] Originally by: Blastil Originally by: Rippey maybe -A-, BoB, SE, RZR, TCF and us can have our own "unofficial grumpy-farts-that-didnt-get-in" tournament. Nothing of value was lost. Besides, its not like -A-, BoB, SE, RZR, and TCF can do anything but blob relentlessly and crash server nodes. Since the alliance tournament is about SMALL GANG pvp, i'm glad to see the *****s that killed it stuck on the outside looking in. ** you guys. What an absolutely idiotic statement. Of the 5 listed above, I've enjoyed intense small gang warfare against 3 of those named, and won't comment on the other 2 due to lack of contact with them. Much agreed with the OP. If round robin requires too much time and coordination for the dev's then go with a period to sign up (like the two weeks in this tournament), leave it open the entire time for sign ups, hand out the reserved slots, and then make a draw for the rest.
Sakura Nihil Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.01.13 00:42:00 - [35] Agreed with the Thug. This change, if accepted, probably won't happen for this tourney, but seriously consider it for next one. I'd rather have a Rote team enter, get whooped, and sent home after Day 1 than this drawing by random method any day. Why stop it at just "until we get to 64 teams"? Why not 32, 16, or just go that way all the way to the championship? Sigh, I suppose at least I'll be able to NOM this tin of popcorn I haven't got around to yet .
Boma Airaken The Divine Comedy Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2009.01.13 00:50:00 - [36] Man some of you people touting that only the big alliances should be in tourney utterly stink, especially the guy moaning about the size of the alliance, Blazde. The first item on your little list is Atrocitas with a measly 20-some-odd members. So what. We have fought them in the past and they are extremely competent, wily, tactically competent pvpers, who in a single elimination preliminary would more than likely make it to the tournament with ease. I would be just as honored to fight them as I would BoB, Goons, or the myriad other totally anonymous top 10 zombie alliances. Territory and politics and size have nothing to do with the tournament. Skills, brains, and awesomesauce out of the box thinking DO.
Boma Airaken The Divine Comedy Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2009.01.13 00:58:00 - [37] Edited by: Boma Airaken on 13/01/2009 00:59:43 Originally by: Sakura Nihil Agreed with the Thug. This change, if accepted, probably won't happen for this tourney, but seriously consider it for next one. I'd rather have a Rote team enter, get whooped, and sent home after Day 1 than this drawing by random method any day. Why stop it at just "until we get to 64 teams"? Why not 32, 16, or just go that way all the way to the championship? Sigh, I suppose at least I'll be able to NOM this tin of popcorn I haven't got around to yet . I really had hoped you guys would be in. Not just for the friendly competition, but because I think you guys could whoop just about anyone on the list. So yeah, for the third time, this system was crap.
JS LiamElms Gallente Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 02:06:00 - [38] Originally by: Blazde 43 Prime Orbital Systems Members: 11 Wt-flying-f The problem is it's an alliance tourney, and the entire concept of an alliance has been totally devalued in the last couple of years. One of my alliance's corporation's alt corp's alt corp (reread to make sure you get it) has more members than some of the above successful entries. i for see this number rising ;) however, for what its worth, some of the top alliances should rreally get a by through to stage 2. member size related... or to do with last performance ranking.
NAYRL Gallente Chaos From Order	Posted - 2009.01.13 02:18:00 - [39] First off never complain about having a problem with the time of day something happens in eve, im from Australia and dt is right in the middle of my prime. Second, this is the alliance tournament, not the big boys club tournament, here every alliance is treated the same (expect the team from the last few years, as it should be) im from a smaller empire alliance, do we have less of a right from entering then a major 0.0 alliance? i agree that they could expand the tournament to include more team, prelim knock out would be good, but why is it that these issues are only raised when one of the major alliance's are left out, if our alliance didnt make it we would be cut, but we wouldnt whine about it on the forum about how unfair it was and if we made a post we would have gotten "to bad, should have been quicker" from one of you "major" alliances
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.01.13 02:47:00 - [40] Edited by: Weirda on 13/01/2009 03:28:46 __ weirda
Rajere No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 02:48:00 - [41] Edited by: Rajere on 13/01/2009 03:10:28 Looking at some of the teams who made it and some of the teams who didn't -but wanted to compete- makes me sad panda :/ I can't complain too much because atleast they're having the tournament again, but with only 2 preliminary matches (yet somehow a "swiss" ranking system?) and that field of 64 participants, meh. There was already going to be very little filtering taking place between the preliminaries and the finals, now there's going to be less. I think the main problem with this year's entry process was that they lowered the entry fee to 500mil. Raising the number of teams to 64 was needed, there was a handful of teams last year who didn't get in. However, they should have also increased the entry fee to 2B as well, as it would have cut down the number of questionable entries while still not remaining a barrier for any real team. Originally by: Blazde 6 Atrocitas Members: 27 20 Divine 0rder Members: 13 25 Fifth Freedom Members: 24 41 Otherworld Empire Productions Members: 29 43 Prime Orbital Systems Members: 11 Wt-flying-f 57 The InterBus Initiative Members: 14 I'm all in favour of giving smaller alliances more opportunities, and the alliance tourney is certainly a good opportunity for an up-and-coming alliance to make a name for themselves. The problem is it's an alliance tourney, and the entire concept of an alliance has been totally devalued in the last couple of years. One of my alliance's corporation's alt corp's alt corp (reread to make sure you get it) has more members than some of the above successful entries. Not that I don't agree about the numbers of some of those teams, but both kadeshi and Notoriety were two very small alliances who made it to the quarter finals last tournament, earning them a reserved spot in this one. If you wanna argue the alliance tournament is drifting further away from "real" alliances, then why aren't you questioning The Five? or Green Alliance from last tourney? Or the 4 spots held for whoever the plex runners deem their champion from FW? Most of those entries are probably place holder alliances and they will be populated by the time the tournament begins, but even if they aren't, <50 member alliances have done well in the past, and with the rules this tourney, they could easily go all the way & win this one. -------------------------- NOTR Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
NAYRL Gallente Chaos From Order	Posted - 2009.01.13 03:22:00 - [42] Edited by: NAYRL on 13/01/2009 03:22:16 Originally by: Rajere Edited by: Rajere on 13/01/2009 03:10:28 If you wanna argue the alliance tournament is drifting further away from "real" alliances, then why aren't you questioning The Five? or Green Alliance from last tourney? Or the 4 spots held for whoever the plex runners deem their champion from FW? Most of those entries are probably place holder alliances and they will be populated by the time the tournament begins, but even if they aren't, <50 member alliances have done well in the past, and with the rules this tourney, they could easily go all the way & win this one. seconded
WShatner Wonderfull Toys	Posted - 2009.01.13 03:24:00 - [43] Edited by: WShatner on 13/01/2009 03:32:22 Evil Thug and AAA knew the rules in advance. If he can't abide by the rules, then he fails this first test and shouldn't qualify anyway. Not like AAA or BoB would have won the tournament anyway with PL in it.
Anatolli Korenchken VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.01.13 04:11:00 - [44] Well seeing as only the alliance leader can signup, the process favors those alliance leaders whose timezone is best for the 1200 GMT. How about changing so that two signup periods are given, 12 hours apart, with max of 32 entries allocated for each period. ---------------
Rajere No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 04:37:00 - [45] Originally by: Anatolli Korenchken Well seeing as only the alliance leader can signup, the process favors those alliance leaders whose timezone is best for the 1200 GMT. How about changing so that two signup periods are given, 12 hours apart, with max of 32 entries allocated for each period. that's even more ridiculous than leaving it as it is now. They just need to increase the cost of the entry fee so non-serious alliance's dont bother applying, leaving room for the rest. -------------------------- NOTR Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 05:03:00 - [46] I support the idea of unlimited applications and simply increasing the number of qualifying rounds. It may take longer, but it's much more fair than forcing people to camp the website until the exact minute signups open and pray they get in soon enough. Plus it could possibly mean more unexpected and entertaining matches as the qualifying rounds progress. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Mes Ren No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 05:39:00 - [47] I believe everyone will agree that it was completely underestimated at how much interest there would be to participate in the tournament. I don't believe that bumping the entry fee would have effected this (the only purpose the fee serves to begin with is a deterent for no shows at your assign fight slot). The only real solution to the problem would have been more slots available to participate in the tournament -- even that I don't believe would have solved the problem, just eased it. There really isn't a perfect solution. If you allowed a scalable amount of people to participate (meaning expanding the number of slots based on the number of applicants), then you have the problem of not knowing how many days you need to hold the tournament -- thus people can't plan for it, and don't know if they can participate. If you have a set number of slots, then you will always have people left out or have slots that go unfilled. Honestly, I think CCP ran things as fair as possible. The only real hiccup was a lot more interest in participation than anyone thought. CCP was very careful to spell things out very clearly and far in advance. Everyone had plenty of notice of day, time, and process for entry (even Goonswarm's accounting department was able to get the instructions right). I know this much, if most people had any idea how fast it would fill up, they would have made addtional arrangements to make sure they were available to apply the second sign-ups started. ________________________ No Trademark -- Mes Ren, Mes Builder -- -- CEO --
McFly C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 05:53:00 - [48] No Offense to ET, much respect man. But AT6 was important enough to me and the guys I fly with to be up at 3am to signup then send in the isk at 5am when I started getting ready for work. Although I do agree that the system is quite unfair, it also allows for more small upstart alliances to get involved. Looking back to AT5 we can see a lot of names come into the light that very few knew before hand, Cry Havoc is an example. But yes those small alliances that want to get into the limelight and have some fun flying their colors would enjoy the chance to upset the big names, and seeing that many of the big names aren't in the bracket is a disappointment. But back to the matter at hand I agree the 12:00GMT system doesn't work that well, but I don't have a suggestion that is balanced and sufficient to post. To those that are in the list. Looking forward to the fights. --McFly--
Boma Airaken The Divine Comedy Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2009.01.13 06:16:00 - [49] Edited by: Boma Airaken on 13/01/2009 06:17:09 The people talking about the fee being the problem are cracking me up. 500m is just as much pocket change as 2 billion is to anyone with a brain. It is REFUNDABLE upon completion of your tournament obligations. Nobody loses anything. It has NOTHING to do with who got in and who didn't.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Otherworld Empire Productions	Posted - 2009.01.13 06:42:00 - [50] Originally by: WShatner Edited by: WShatner on 13/01/2009 03:32:22 Evil Thug and AAA knew the rules in advance. If he can't abide by the rules, then he fails this first test and shouldn't qualify anyway. Not like AAA or BoB would have won the tournament anyway with PL in it. Well they didn't know 3 hours after signups opened would be too late, I don't think anyone anticipated THAT much participation I kindof agree with your trolling tho, PL are extremely good at this kind of small-scale stuff, and TWD isn't around atm which I assume is why BoB isn't taking part. (apart from ATUK)
DeWieKat Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.01.13 06:47:00 - [51] Originally by: WShatner Edited by: WShatner on 13/01/2009 03:32:22 Evil Thug and AAA knew the rules in advance. If he can't abide by the rules, then he fails this first test and shouldn't qualify anyway. Not like AAA or BoB would have won the tournament anyway with PL in it. space on CAOD isnt enough for you? you fkn troller, you have to come in here and spam here too? get lost.
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.13 08:26:00 - [52] Originally by: Evil Thug Thinking, that large claiming alliances is unable to do anything in small gang warfare is mistake. No, you can blob the **** out of them. That's something, right?
Goberth Ludwig North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.13 08:38:00 - [53] What a baby, same complaints every tourney because the same big alliances that can alarm clock 100 people for a POS bash cant be arsed to read the rules and push a button. Scroll downs posts same whines last year - Gob

CCP Claw	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:11:00 - [54] Bad luck to the teams that missed their entry. We did give apt notice for teams to be able to complete the signup process appropriately, and as Eve is a global game there is no time which we can set that can accommodate everyone perfectly. I would like to advise, though, that if you see a potential rules problem or issue that it would be a good idea to mention the issue in advance of it arising rather than waiting to see if you got in before making a complaint. I would like to point out that many of the alliances that you guys are upset not to see didn't even try to sign up. Also, when the registration process dropped temporarily, it was only down for 15-20 minutes and there was an immediate post on this forum informing of what was happening, so no one should have lost any time there although of course it was not ideal. This is not the 'big alliance tournament' nor the '0.0 spaceholding alliance tournament'. This is the Alliance Tournament and all alliances, big and small, are welcome to compete. We have made a major step up from last time in terms of teams entered and we are really looking forward to this new tournament as I know many others are. Good luck to all the teams involved and again, bad luck to the teams that missed it.

QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:19:00 - [55] We did sign up, we missed out on payment because the rules require one person and one person only to send the fee in time, which means if that person is out of action for a couple of days due to RL stuff then an entire alliance screwed. The rules need to be changed for signups so that at least the team captain can send the fee or another CEO. There are too many Mickey Mouse teams in this year's tournament and not enough top tier players. I honestly expect Pandemic Legion to waltz to victory unless they get hit by a piece of bad luck. I can only see HUN, CAIN or maybe Evoke challenging them. I will say the same thing that was suggested after last year's farcical organization : Player Council. We have the CSM for general EVE issues, why not a Player Council for the tournament?
Derwent Caldari Free Lapland The Kadeshi	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:20:00 - [56] Are u insisting just cus kadeshi is small we are not a real alliance?...
Anatolli Korenchken VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:23:00 - [57] Alarm clocking isn't a problem, but taking a day off work is a bit of an ask for some people. Oh and not everybody works in offices. As a spectator, I would rather watch AAA vs BOB or MM vs Triumvirate battle it out rather than Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups vs Gay4Life or half of the other randoms that barely anyone cares about. Can't have everything though
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:27:00 - [58] Originally by: Derwent Are u insisting just cus kadeshi is small we are not a real alliance?... When I say Mickey Mouse I mean in terms of ability and reputation, not size. Some of the best skilled alliances in the game are tiny.
Charlie Luciano The Administration Cosa Nostra.	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:31:00 - [59] Didn't we have the exact same situation last tournament with several of the bigger alliances whining about not getting to participate because they didn't bother preparing for something as simple as signing up? We didn't sign up for this years tournament, so I wont presume to know how the sign up process has changed for this time around, but all in all it still feels immensely like a dTja vu, reading this post. It may not have been perfect but just like last year it wasn't because of lack of information on CCPs part. It was once again a lack of preparation from the whining parties in most cases, and why the hell should CCP continously change the format of the tournament just because YOU couldn't be bothered changing something in the alliance to be able to sign up for the tournament? Fake EDIT: I know some people had problems signing up, and while I would understand a whinepost from them, it is a joke seeing a leader of a big alliance whining just because he couldn't be bothered sorting out one of his directors being alliance leader so that person could sign up his alliance _____________________________ A Parola d'onuri vali sangu
Bex Beere Caldari Brewery Research Ltd Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.01.13 10:52:00 - [60] Originally by: CCP Claw This is the Alliance Tournament and all alliances, big and small, are welcome to compete. Well with a 5k member alliance and a 5 member alliance in then you accomplished your goal Good luck to those who made it and hopefully we will see some fun and surprising matches again. Bex Beere
herasin Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.13 11:03:00 - [61] Originally by: Evil Thug Ok. To make it short. I really dont know, who would even came with idea, to open registration to 6th tournament @ 12.00 GMT. There is alot of people, who play eve, dont have access to PC's while at work. When CCP opened registration process, I was busy in the university, and i was unable to register straight @ 12.00 GMT. I received few calls on my phone from fellow corp members, regarding "give acc and pw, we will register". Keeping in mind, that CCP is bashing players for account sharing i responded, that i will do it myself. According to my transaction log history, i transferred 500m isk to CCP Mindstar @ 14.23 EVE time of 19th dec. Now - i`m unable to see my team amongst registred teams. Gentlemens, organizing those events - is pain, and i know it. Still i`m unable to get, why you turned registration into "press button earlier than your opponent". I`m here to propose slight system change. Top 16 teams from previous tournament = getting into group stage. Everybody rest is fighting each other, using single elimination system, till we will have 64 teams, who will compete for main prize. Thank you. whine much, oh wai...
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Otherworld Empire Productions	Posted - 2009.01.13 11:33:00 - [62] Originally by: Charlie Luciano it is a joke seeing a leader of a big alliance whining just because he couldn't be bothered sorting out one of his directors being alliance leader so that person could sign up his alliance only ceo of executor corp can sign his alliance up, transfering that to a director seems a bit extreme over something like alliance tournament ..
Blazde 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.13 11:41:00 - [63] Originally by: Rajere If you wanna argue the alliance tournament is drifting further away from "real" alliances, then why aren't you questioning The Five? or Green Alliance from last tourney? Or the 4 spots held for whoever the plex runners deem their champion from FW? Most of those entries are probably place holder alliances and they will be populated by the time the tournament begins, but even if they aren't, <50 member alliances have done well in the past, and with the rules this tourney, they could easily go all the way & win this one. I totally am questioning phoney shell alliances like The Five and (as JS LiamElms pointed out) Prime Orbital Systems. Those are the worst. The point is entering the alliance tourney should not be a simple case of paying 1 bil + 500m deposit. Just as entering the Olympics isn't as simple as me declaring my back yard a sovereign state. It should be for real alliances that are relevant politically & militarily all year round. And no I'm not discriminating against small alliances, or empire alliances, let's have lots of them it makes for good fun and it's a very important channel for them to gain recognition. But there needs to be some minimum criteria. Exactly what I don't know but here's food-for-thought: Alliance logo submission process Quote: Only logos from alliances that have been in effect for six months or more and have over 150 active members will be accepted. CONCORD Makes Revolutionary Statement of Recognition For Alliances as Starbase Components Hit SCC Markets Quote: In a surprise announcement at 12:00 EVT today Irhes Angireh, Head of CONCORD's Inner Circle, declared CONCORD to be in full official support of the outer rim alliances. Further, she stated that official provision had been made for alliances to, for the first time in history, become recorded entities on the level of nation-states. ...
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.01.13 11:56:00 - [64] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 13/01/2009 11:56:27 Quote: Bad luck to the teams that missed their entry. We did give apt notice for teams to be able to complete the signup process appropriately, and as Eve is a global game there is no time which we can set that can accommodate everyone perfectly. I would like to advise, though, that if you see a potential rules problem or issue that it would be a good idea to mention the issue in advance of it arising rather than waiting to see if you got in before making a complaint. I would like to point out that many of the alliances that you guys are upset not to see didn't even try to sign up. Also, when the registration process dropped temporarily, it was only down for 15-20 minutes and there was an immediate post on this forum informing of what was happening, so no one should have lost any time there although of course it was not ideal. This is not the 'big alliance tournament' nor the '0.0 spaceholding alliance tournament'. This is the Alliance Tournament and all alliances, big and small, are welcome to compete. We have made a major step up from last time in terms of teams entered and we are really looking forward to this new tournament as I know many others are. Good luck to all the teams involved and again, bad luck to the teams that missed it. For what its worth I think the organizers did as well as they could with the ruleset this time around but I believe you should consider opening up the tournament to an unlimited number of entries next time and just have an extra round to whittle the numbers down to 64 as a pre-qualfier. Even if this round is not formally commentated etc - its better than having participation in the tournament determined by an arbitrary first come first served sign up process. While (as I said earlier in the thread) I usually manage to sign up pretty well from the laptop I use for work from anywhere - it was conceivable that I'd have lost connectivity or gotten dragged into a truly important meeting and would have been as irritated as anyone else here for missing the chance to compete on a pure timing issue. Nothing can be done about it this time - but I think it should factor into the planning for the next tournament and with Eve Online growing all the time its obvious that demand for tournament entry will only rise. You guys are going to need a way to give everyone a fair shot at the big time! ISSUE - Bring back live events
Tnam Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:01:00 - [65] Originally by: Blazde I totally am questioning phoney shell alliances like The Five and (as JS LiamElms pointed out) Prime Orbital Systems. Those are the worst. The point is entering the alliance tourney should not be a simple case of paying 1 bil + 500m deposit. Just as entering the Olympics isn't as simple as me declaring my back yard a sovereign state. Really, there's no problem with this, a lot of people in Eve aren't in big alliances and pew pew all day with good tactics and good skills. I don't see why they should be excluded over some elitist *******s about my alliances is bigger and better etc... If people bring a good fight and provide good entertainment for everyone watching then that's all good. In Church we know we haven't got the isk of Morsus Mihi and we know we don't really do anything in a blob... I think we have like 100 members and we have no space, does that mean we should not get to fight? When all we do is 24/7 pvp in gangs that aren't dissimilar in size to a tourney team?
Tiger Trader	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:03:00 - [66] Originally by: Charlie Luciano Didn't we have the exact same situation last tournament with several of the bigger alliances whining about not getting to participate because they didn't bother preparing for something as simple as signing up? We didn't sign up for this years tournament, so I wont presume to know how the sign up process has changed for this time around, but all in all it still feels immensely like a dTja vu, reading this post. It may not have been perfect but just like last year it wasn't because of lack of information on CCPs part. It was once again a lack of preparation from the whining parties in most cases, and why the hell should CCP continously change the format of the tournament just because YOU couldn't be bothered changing something in the alliance to be able to sign up for the tournament? Fake EDIT: I know some people had problems signing up, and while I would understand a whinepost from them, it is a joke seeing a leader of a big alliance whining just because he couldn't be bothered sorting out one of his directors being alliance leader so that person could sign up his alliance Totally agree mate, plenty of notice to sort things out. NoOne has a god given right to be in this tournement. The alliance's that deemed it important enough to take days off work, transer executor etc etc and sit there clicking apply deserve to be in it for there commitment. Good luck to all involved, lets hope its fun fun fun
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:12:00 - [67] got to agree with ET, next time i would love to see a preliminary knockout stage with unlimited numbers. i think its a real shame that not everyone who wanted in could get in.
WShatner Wonderfull Toys	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:16:00 - [68] Edited by: WShatner on 13/01/2009 12:16:59 Evil Thug and others, don't come whining on the forums about how your uber mega-blob alliance didn't get in if you can't sign up on time. You had plenty of warning on sign-up time, and you could have complained BEFORE sign-ups if you found the timing to be troublesome. Instead, you waited until the list was announced, and ONLY because YOUR alliance did not get in. Basically, you and your alliance epically failed and are now trying to blame this on CCP. Try not to cry too much when PL wins.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:20:00 - [69] Originally by: WShatner Edited by: WShatner on 13/01/2009 12:16:59 Evil Thug and others, don't come whining on the forums about how your uber mega-blob alliance didn't get in if you can't sign up on time. You had plenty of warning on sign-up time, and you could have complained BEFORE sign-ups if you found the timing to be troublesome. Instead, you waited until the list was announced, and ONLY because YOUR alliance did not get in. Basically, you and your alliance epically failed and are now trying to blame this on CCP. Try not to cry too much when PL wins. Writing in purple text doesn't make your point any stronger. Don't personalize this and stop trolling. ET has proposed a solution that would be to the common interest of ANY alliance getting a shot at the tourney in the future. I've never failed to register in time for SF - but I'm fully in support of ET's proposal because I know full well that rl could screw me on sign up day and I'd much rather need to get through a pre-qualifier to reach the final 64 than lose our chance entirely to an arbitary sign-up time and the whims of the internet. ISSUE - Bring back live events
Kozak Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:27:00 - [70] CCP Would like a lot of EVE to watch would be my guess. With major alliances not able to join, that's a lot of potential viewers that will probably not care. If I have no vested interest in the tournament, I have no reason to watch. I think a lot of others will feel the same.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Otherworld Empire Productions	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:30:00 - [71] Originally by: Kozak CCP Would like a lot of EVE to watch would be my guess. With major alliances not able to join, that's a lot of potential viewers that will probably not care. If I have no vested interest in the tournament, I have no reason to watch. I think a lot of others will feel the same. heh not sure how much CCP actually care about this, they probably wouldn't even have done another tournament if i hadn't called them out on it at the fanfest panel -_-
Tnam Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:39:00 - [72] Originally by: Kozak CCP Would like a lot of EVE to watch would be my guess. With major alliances not able to join, that's a lot of potential viewers that will probably not care. If I have no vested interest in the tournament, I have no reason to watch. I think a lot of others will feel the same. Tbh most ppl will watch the tourney regardless of who is involved because its always good entertainment I think...
Cyan Blackadder CBI	Posted - 2009.01.13 13:04:00 - [73] Edited by: Cyan Blackadder on 13/01/2009 13:16:02 Originally by: CCP Claw Bad luck to the teams that missed their entry. We did give apt notice for teams to be able to complete the signup process appropriately, and as Eve is a global game there is no time which we can set that can accommodate everyone perfectly. I would like to advise, though, that if you see a potential rules problem or issue that it would be a good idea to mention the issue in advance of it arising rather than waiting to see if you got in before making a complaint. I would like to point out that many of the alliances that you guys are upset not to see didn't even try to sign up. Also, when the registration process dropped temporarily, it was only down for 15-20 minutes and there was an immediate post on this forum informing of what was happening, so no one should have lost any time there although of course it was not ideal. This is not the 'big alliance tournament' nor the '0.0 spaceholding alliance tournament'. This is the Alliance Tournament and all alliances, big and small, are welcome to compete. We have made a major step up from last time in terms of teams entered and we are really looking forward to this new tournament as I know many others are. Good luck to all the teams involved and again, bad luck to the teams that missed it. In other words you are saying CCP did everything fine, no problems detected anywhere, Removed. Please be civil in your replies. Navigator and if you don't like it get lost and stop living.
Major Sails Battleships and Luxury yachts Old Intentions	Posted - 2009.01.13 13:31:00 - [74] Originally by: CCP Claw Bad luck to the teams that missed their entry. We did give apt notice for teams to be able to complete the signup process appropriately, and as Eve is a global game there is no time which we can set that can accommodate everyone perfectly. I would like to advise, though, that if you see a potential rules problem or issue that it would be a good idea to mention the issue in advance of it arising rather than waiting to see if you got in before making a complaint. I would like to point out that many of the alliances that you guys are upset not to see didn't even try to sign up. Also, when the registration process dropped temporarily, it was only down for 15-20 minutes and there was an immediate post on this forum informing of what was happening, so no one should have lost any time there although of course it was not ideal. This is not the 'big alliance tournament' nor the '0.0 spaceholding alliance tournament'. This is the Alliance Tournament and all alliances, big and small, are welcome to compete. We have made a major step up from last time in terms of teams entered and we are really looking forward to this new tournament as I know many others are. Good luck to all the teams involved and again, bad luck to the teams that missed it. That is indeed some bad luck there. But then again, the system didn't really offer a fair chance to many. Hell, opening registration for a day and then either going for a last-man-standing-duke-it-out-fight to see who get to fight in the spotlight later on. Or, a simple luck of the draw, where all teams get drawn out of a hat and we find out that way who gets to play. Tha latter one is a horrible option tbqh, but at least it gives every team a chance of the odds ingame, rather than current system, where odds are based out of game. CCP Claw, you really need to think your thoughts through, cause that post of yours is full of fail mate
Captain Thunk Vale Tudo.	Posted - 2009.01.13 13:36:00 - [75] CCP gave a week or two advance warning before signups opened - if a similar format is followed next time then perhaps allow the Alliance Executor to nominate someone else to perform the signup process - not ideal, but helps people who have timezone issues to delegate to a character who isn't so constrained. Ultimately though, there's always going to be dissatisfied people regarding signups, prizes, rules and anything else related to the tournament. Captain Thunk
Evil Edna The Priory	Posted - 2009.01.13 13:44:00 - [76] thug is right on this, an arbitrary time for fastest to push button gets a place isnt a good system in a global game, where people have work commitments. expecting people to stay up until 3 or 4am, or take a day off work just to sign up for a game is frankly absurd. either the kind of system ET is talking about needs to be introduced in the future, or signups should be able to do be done by directors as well as CEOs, making is probable than in an alliance there will be someone around at the time signups open.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.01.13 13:49:00 - [77] ET is right. We got in because our executor sat there and registered right at 12:00. Not the most useful way to determine who "gets in." Please have everyone subscribe whenever they feel like it during the subscription period, and pick 64 random alliances from all of them. No "first come first serve". Thanks.
Mes Ren No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 14:22:00 - [78] Originally by: QwaarJet We did sign up, we missed out on payment because the rules require one person and one person only to send the fee in time, which means if that person is out of action for a couple of days due to RL stuff then an entire alliance screwed. The rules need to be changed for signups so that at least the team captain can send the fee or another CEO. There are too many Mickey Mouse teams in this year's tournament and not enough top tier players. I honestly expect Pandemic Legion to waltz to victory unless they get hit by a piece of bad luck. I can only see HUN, CAIN or maybe Evoke challenging them. I will say the same thing that was suggested after last year's farcical organization : Player Council. We have the CSM for general EVE issues, why not a Player Council for the tournament? No offense, but I'm a little confused. You are saying that the one and only person that can sign you up was able to register you, but was unable to send the isk? How did that happen exactly? It's not like we didn't know that we needed to send the isk within 24hrs beforehand. Why didn't he simply send the isk at the same time he registered? For that matter, if some kind of emergency came about, why didn't he contact someone else so they could contact ccp explaining "there was some kind of rl emergency - here is the isk, plz except it?" CCP aren't ogres, they even said to contact them if there was some kind of issue. It sounds to me more like the someone who signed you up simply forgot to send the isk. ________________________ No Trademark -- Mes Ren, Mes Builder -- -- CEO --
Strathis Mikluk Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.01.13 14:35:00 - [79] Originally by: Arkady Sadik ET is right. We got in because our executor sat there and registered right at 12:00. Not the most useful way to determine who "gets in." Please have everyone subscribe whenever they feel like it during the subscription period, and pick 64 random alliances from all of them. No "first come first serve". Thanks. F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5
Malar HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2009.01.13 14:57:00 - [80] Originally by: QwaarJet We did sign up, we missed out on payment because the rules require one person and one person only to send the fee in time, which means if that person is out of action for a couple of days due to RL stuff then an entire alliance screwed. The rules need to be changed for signups so that at least the team captain can send the fee or another CEO. There are too many Mickey Mouse teams in this year's tournament and not enough top tier players. I honestly expect Pandemic Legion to waltz to victory unless they get hit by a piece of bad luck. I can only see HUN, CAIN or maybe Evoke challenging them. I will say the same thing that was suggested after last year's farcical organization : Player Council. We have the CSM for general EVE issues, why not a Player Council for the tournament? Come on now.. theres lots of mickey mouse teams for sure, but if you compare this lineup to the AT5/AT4 lineup, you will see that only few of the major players are missing, but instead of them you got 40-50 jokers.. The difference between well known alliances and these jokers is crucial: you know what to expect from the known entities, but you have no clue what the jokers will do. Need i remind you to a joker team from AT4, nah.. if anything, then the random mickey mouse teams only make me sweat more, i certainly do not feel safer because of them. I think this will be the hardest AT yet.. not only do we have twice the participants, but also a set of rules which makes it hard to preserve your forces and go for safe victories. You will have to pick tactics for every match, that are risky and kind of a rock-paper-scissor(ish). The last two tournaments were mainly won by out of the box thinking.. This one will be won by in game and out of game skills and coordination. Then again, even with the best plans and skills you will see teams running into the exact opposite of their lineup and suffering epic losses they have no way to avoid. Luck will be a much bigger factor this time around. We will see what this tournament bring. For now theres only one thing we can be farily certain of: there will be lots of ships... and lots of wrecks as well. --------------------------------------------- Comments in this post are mine and mine only
KTOZ Caldari Evil Plankton	Posted - 2009.01.13 15:26:00 - [81] Despite the fact that we are in the tourney, i admit that this is not the best system to register alliences in. But we should see that CCP's role isnt that easy to.. the intrest to the tournement is increasing each year and so the numbers who wants to compete. I think the fact that the first 12 who succeed in the past tourneys gets in directly was a good step and its the ONLY fact which should decide which allience is truely big, good, kick ass etc. and not how big territory they hold nor their member count ( please note there is many " big alliences" in the game that half of their members have no clue about PvP and they fly ravens with cloacking devices 24/24..) And for all those moaning now becoz they arent in, your are right and there s something wrong, maybe for the next tourney they should put more then 64 slot. But you accepted those rules as everyone else, and when you left out you complain, thats not right neither. Saying **** alliences are in and we, as eve's uber lag fest, despite our super performence on the past tourneys, are out is just wrong..
Firkragg Blue Labs Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.13 15:32:00 - [82] I think the only main issue really is he whole "tournament team" thing which seems to be getting more and more popular. I too believe that the alliance tournament should be for alliances rather than for some random group of people who specifically formed an alliance of 5 people so they could get in etc. I dont agree with setting a minimum size limit though that would stop a number of excellent small alliances joining in.
Strathis Mikluk Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.01.13 15:33:00 - [83] Edited by: Strathis Mikluk on 13/01/2009 15:33:25 Originally by: Malar .... This this this this. Just because you don't recognize a team straight off, doesn't make them bad, or any worse off. Alliances rise and fall every day. I look forward to seeing what each and every small team can come up with. Sure there'll be the **** people as there are with each tourney, but that's what makes it interesting, sometimes all it takes is a bit of luck you get the niche you're aiming for.
Yoh Sha Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.01.13 15:52:00 - [84] Originally by: CCP Claw Bad luck to the teams that missed their entry. We did give apt notice for teams to be able to complete the signup process appropriately, and as Eve is a global game there is no time which we can set that can accommodate everyone perfectly. I would like to advise, though, that if you see a potential rules problem or issue that it would be a good idea to mention the issue in advance of it arising rather than waiting to see if you got in before making a complaint. I would like to point out that many of the alliances that you guys are upset not to see didn't even try to sign up. Also, when the registration process dropped temporarily, it was only down for 15-20 minutes and there was an immediate post on this forum informing of what was happening, so no one should have lost any time there although of course it was not ideal. This is not the 'big alliance tournament' nor the '0.0 spaceholding alliance tournament'. This is the Alliance Tournament and all alliances, big and small, are welcome to compete. We have made a major step up from last time in terms of teams entered and we are really looking forward to this new tournament as I know many others are. Good luck to all the teams involved and again, bad luck to the teams that missed it. So the championship is not following the idea to gather all skilled teams within the event? Is it the official CCP oppinion? I hardly can understand why a championship with an open status for everyone has so much restrictions regarding participants. Maybe you should be more preciece in the juridicial statements and change championship status?
JS LiamElms Gallente Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 15:53:00 - [85] Edited by: JS LiamElms on 13/01/2009 15:53:49 i think this thread is more whine than anything... tbh, yeah be nice to see some of the major alliances in, but then someone highlighted that if these alliances can do alarm clock ops why can they stay up. I remember staying up with beers and mates waiting for a big fight to happen on TV at about 2am uk time but prime in america. So the time thing is really not an issue? some people in some part of the world will lose out, so basing on GMt seems the best option. regards the small alliances, come on... everyone 'drafts' outsiders into thier alliance to get the top skilled players possible. Suddenly we all might have a chance to be included. too many old players whining cause they can't compete or they don't have their msn buddies alliance in the tourny they can join... i think people will see a lot of new names and not the usual msn buddy group fighting in an overblown self importance alliance! oh, and maybe these smaller alliances want the publicity to build their numbers to the size of -A- or bob..... they need to start somewhere and will current mechanics the is no way they can get out to 0.0 while -a- blob everything then leave vasts empty space to be farmed by 1 or 2 plexers paying over blown rent.
Tiger Trader	Posted - 2009.01.13 16:27:00 - [86] Originally by: Yoh Sha[/quote So the championship is not following the idea to gather all skilled teams within the event? Is it the official CCP oppinion? I hardly can understand why a championship with an open status for everyone has so much restrictions regarding participants. Maybe you should be more preciece in the juridicial statements and change championship status? STOP whining...you had the same chance as everyone else to register and you only have yourselves to blame....get over it......oh and good luck to everyone who got it, lets hope its fun
Yoh Sha Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.01.13 16:41:00 - [87] Originally by: Tiger Trader STOP whining...you had the same chance as everyone else to register and you only have yourselves to blame....get over it......oh and good luck to everyone who got it, lets hope its fun Stop trolling then maybe, mr "newbcorp"? My point is quiet simple: championship is to be competetive, the main idea is to compete and the champion is the best of all participans but wait, registration was for a few minutes, it was "impossible" to make a team registration to take place for 24h so there will be no problems for any country (as CCP told us in this thread it is an international game, right? why the time was chosen for a certain countries?).
Tiger Trader	Posted - 2009.01.13 16:50:00 - [88] Originally by: Yoh Sha Originally by: Tiger Trader STOP whining...you had the same chance as everyone else to register and you only have yourselves to blame....get over it......oh and good luck to everyone who got it, lets hope its fun Stop trolling then maybe, mr "newbcorp"? My point is quiet simple: championship is to be competetive, the main idea is to compete and the champion is the best of all participans but wait, registration was for a few minutes, it was "impossible" to make a team registration to take place for 24h so there will be no problems for any country (as CCP told us in this thread it is an international game, right? why the time was chosen for a certain countries?). Can you contradict yourself some more? You said its impossible to make it 24hr registration, and then say why chose for certain countries?? Its "impossible" to keep everyone happy, so CCP set the rules and people do there best to adapt to said rules. Some people adated and some people didn't.
KTOZ Caldari Evil Plankton	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:07:00 - [89] Edited by: KTOZ on 13/01/2009 17:08:03 Originally by: Yoh Sha So the championship is not following the idea to gather all skilled teams within the event? Is it the official CCP oppinion?[/quote QUOTING Mindstar /* : Fifth Alliance Tournament finalists - 8 slots. The top 8 teams from the fifth tournament will be automatically granted entry. Fourth Alliance Tournament finalists - 4 slots. The top 4 teams from the fourth tournament will automatically be granted entry. */ I think the official CCP oppinion about the gathering the skilled teams are clearly underlined here. And unfortunatly some alliences are in and some not, is so hard to assume it? why the number of your cap ships or how big fleets you can formup should change it? What about other skilled pvpers who got enough of big fleet fights and pos warfare and having fun in small scale PvP? that makes them unskilled Pvpers? Hun reloaded was not that well known b4 they won the 4th tourney right? but they kicked many "big alliences" out. Lets give ppl their chances and dont cry after the train is gone..
Lady Alystra Amarr Big Bong Quantum Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:12:00 - [90] Edited by: Lady Alystra on 13/01/2009 17:13:01 Just a few thoughts... There is a HUGE difference between doing alarm-clock ops with a group where any one member of the group missing is just a member missing and forcing an alliance leader to be available at a certain time exactly. In this case, the leader of one of the biggest alliances in Eve was actually doing something in RL which, strangely, was more important. Attending university classes. Bettering himself. So if he wanted his alliance to enter, he should either hand over CEO of the executor corp of a very large alliance to someone else or skip university? I am the CEO of the executor corp of a rather small alliance and there is no way I would hand over my CEO position to anyone but a very close RL friend - and the change of CEO takes time, is a hassle all over. It should not have to be necessary to enter a tournament!!! I think the real whiners are the persons who are attacking ET on the fact that he choose university over applying @12 - applying 2+ hours later should not mean that AAA was not eligible for the tournament, really. Why isn't there a draft of the open spots between all registered in a certain time period? Lady A
Cibo Seidensha Amarr Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:33:00 - [91] So, if the teams wouldve been chosen from a pool of 24h registrations at random, how would that have improved the chance of big alliances getting in? If anything, their chance to participate wouldve gone down, due to an increasing number of small alliances registrating over the 24h time (there are more small alliances than big ones...).
Tiger Trader	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:51:00 - [92] I really dont understand the argument here, CCP clearly stated the rules of entry and application, the whole of eve had chance to have there say and put forward complaints if they thought the rules were unfair, as far as I know this did not happen so the process took place (fair or not). END OF! Can we not move on and look forward to the upcoming event rather than dwell on thing that can not and will not be changed!
Lady Alystra Amarr Big Bong Quantum Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:52:00 - [93] Originally by: Cibo Seidensha So, if the teams wouldve been chosen from a pool of 24h registrations at random, how would that have improved the chance of big alliances getting in? If anything, their chance to participate wouldve gone down, due to an increasing number of small alliances registrating over the 24h time (there are more small alliances than big ones...). In my opinion, it would give all a fair chance, regardless of size. Lady A
Godholio Minmatar Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:21:00 - [94] Originally by: Blazde I totally am questioning phoney shell alliances like The Five and (as JS LiamElms pointed out) Prime Orbital Systems. Those are the worst. The point is entering the alliance tourney should not be a simple case of paying 1 bil + 500m deposit. Just as entering the Olympics isn't as simple as me declaring my back yard a sovereign state. Prime Orbital Systems is hardly phony nor is it a shell alliance. It has a proud history and when we realized that we could make use of it to have an opportunity at competing in the tourney, we took it. Good thing too, seeing as how our "main" alliance (who shall not be named), didn't get their application in time. So if it weren't for Prime Orbital Systems, we would not be competing at all.
Captain Thunk Vale Tudo.	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:26:00 - [95] Originally by: Godholio Originally by: Blazde I totally am questioning phoney shell alliances like The Five and (as JS LiamElms pointed out) Prime Orbital Systems. Those are the worst. The point is entering the alliance tourney should not be a simple case of paying 1 bil + 500m deposit. Just as entering the Olympics isn't as simple as me declaring my back yard a sovereign state. Prime Orbital Systems is hardly phony nor is it a shell alliance. It has a proud history and when we realized that we could make use of it to have an opportunity at competing in the tourney, we took it. Good thing too, seeing as how our "main" alliance (who shall not be named), didn't get their application in time. So if it weren't for Prime Orbital Systems, we would not be competing at all. Flipside of that is you could have ended up taking a slot for your self-confessed "main" alliance and also a slot with POS your "alt" alliance. I don't think applying multiple times is a good solution to the problem discussed in this thread. Captain Thunk
Godholio Minmatar Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:31:00 - [96] Originally by: Captain Thunk Flipside of that is you could have ended up taking a slot for your self-confessed "main" alliance and also a slot with POS your "alt" alliance. I don't think applying multiple times is a good solution to the problem discussed in this thread. Captain Thunk We initially intended POS to go to the tourney so that our players who may not have "qualified" for the main team could still have a shot at competition. However upon speaking to the guy who was in charge of sending in the main alliance's application, he wasn't able to do it until several hours after all the slots had been filled. So POS's application alone wasn't enough to have an impact.
Ikar Kaltin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:37:00 - [97] So you were in effect trying to enter 2 teams into the alliance tournament?
Charlie Luciano The Administration Cosa Nostra.	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:42:00 - [98] Originally by: Lady Alystra Edited by: Lady Alystra on 13/01/2009 17:13:01 I am the CEO of the executor corp of a rather small alliance and there is no way I would hand over my CEO position to anyone but a very close RL friend - and the change of CEO takes time, is a hassle all over. It should not have to be necessary to enter a tournament!!! Lady A Change of CEO takes all but a right-click on your own char, resign as CEO, choose your replacement and done. At least make the effort of checking facts before posting bull (and if you honestly have no directors that you can trust with such a simple task, well then you're probably screwed anyway tbh)... Oh and did I mention dTja vu btw? Didn't we also have people from non-participating alliances state that last years tournament would be crap without all the big alliances in? Didn't we have several big alliances whine about not participating because they couldn't be bothered signing up at the time CCP opened sign ups? Didn't we also have just as a successful tournament as the ones before that (one would think it was successful since they decided to do another one)? All in all it seems like we have to go through this every single tournament - whine about rules, whine about prizes, whine about whines, whine about non-participation because someone didn't bother doing their homework and finally whine about EVE-TV smacking alliances they don't like... How much ISK should we bet on me being able to copy/paste this to a similar thread in 6 months time when they have a new tournament?
Mes Ren No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 19:33:00 - [99] I've said this before, but I'm going to reiterate. We wouldn't be having this problem if 128+ teams were allowed in the tournament. NO ONE expected to have this much interest in the tournament, look at the facts: All 64 slots were filled within a couple hours AT THE MOST. Even if 128 teams were allowed, based on the interest, we would still have had issues. I've been putting a lot of thought into it, and I believe I have a potential solution for next time. First, CCP would try to determine an approximate interest in the tournament. This would be done with a pre-registration open for a few days. It would use the same mechanic we currently have for registering (only executor can pre-register). This pre-registration would be only used for purposes of getting a rough number of interest -- similar to a poll, and would give no obligation to those who pre-register to actually participate. Second, CCP would use this information in conjunction with other internal factors to determine the number of slots available in the tournament -- this number would most likely be less than the number of pre-registants. Third, CCP would do determine the dates for the tournament (with some additional "pre-qualifier" dates prior to the official dates), announce the rules, etc., and open sign-up at the appropriate time as they have this time with a first come, first served type signup. There would still be the reserved spot same as this tournament. Fourth, once the slots have been filled in the first come, first served fashion, overflow would still get a chance to get in to a select number of 'overflow slots' based on a "pre-qualifier round" - single elimination, 10 min rounds. If this were determined to be too much additional work, a random draw could be used for the overflow slots - eliminating the need for pre-qualifier rounds. ________________________ No Trademark -- Mes Ren, Mes Builder -- -- CEO --
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2009.01.13 19:51:00 - [100] It was proposed during the last tournament that the final 16 at least should get a call before hand checking to see if they were interested before releasing the slots to the mob. I don't see a great many teams of interest to follow in this line-up. For there to be upsets there need to be something to upset, Mostly Obscure vs Pancreatic Lesion just isn't that match-up, less Beeker more Don King. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Ard UnjiiGo The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.01.13 19:58:00 - [101] Originally by: Cibo Seidensha So, if the teams wouldve been chosen from a pool of 24h registrations at random, how would that have improved the chance of big alliances getting in? If anything, their chance to participate wouldve gone down, due to an increasing number of small alliances registrating over the 24h time (there are more small alliances than big ones...). Any lottery type arrangement lends itself to exploitation through metagaming (current process can be metagamed but would be more difficult). Big 0.0 alliances do metagaming better then most. Hence, lottery benefits those with the isk, accounts and alts to create numerous 'shell' alliances so that they can be assured that the pilots in those alliances that want to fly in the tourny get the chance. This is a PvP Tourney. As befits a PvP tourney the sign up was PvP (first come first serve). As in combat, those alliances that were better prepared, dedicated and could press a button faster than their opponent won the first unofficial round. Sounds like EVE to me. I see no problem - just entitled, narcissitic whining. Carry on though. It's funny.
Cyan Blackadder CBI	Posted - 2009.01.13 20:03:00 - [102] Originally by: Tiger Trader I really dont understand the argument here, CCP clearly stated the rules of entry and application, the whole of eve had chance to have there say and put forward complaints if they thought the rules were unfair, as far as I know this did not happen so the process took place (fair or not). END OF! Can we not move on and look forward to the upcoming event rather than dwell on thing that can not and will not be changed! Do you have any ideas of your own?
Godholio Minmatar Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2009.01.13 20:17:00 - [103] Originally by: Ikar Kaltin So you were in effect trying to enter 2 teams into the alliance tournament? Nope, POS is corp-only, it does not represent the alliance as a whole. The point I was trying to make is simply that we did not "steal" the slot away from our main alliance. ----------------------------------- YARR!!!
Sakura Nihil Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.01.13 23:27:00 - [104] Originally by: Lady Alystra Originally by: Cibo Seidensha So, if the teams wouldve been chosen from a pool of 24h registrations at random, how would that have improved the chance of big alliances getting in? If anything, their chance to participate wouldve gone down, due to an increasing number of small alliances registrating over the 24h time (there are more small alliances than big ones...). In my opinion, it would give all a fair chance, regardless of size. Actually not a bad idea, gives everyone a 24h window to signup, and then let's CCP pass any blame off to luck and/or probability. Win-win, tbh. Certainly better than button-camping.
Morris Falter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.01.13 23:37:00 - [105] Biggest fun in a tournament is seeing the underdog give bigger names a good kicking. Guess I'm in a minority there..
MsCat	Posted - 2009.01.13 23:40:00 - [106] Originally by: Sakura Nihil Originally by: Lady Alystra Originally by: Cibo Seidensha So, if the teams wouldve been chosen from a pool of 24h registrations at random, how would that have improved the chance of big alliances getting in? If anything, their chance to participate wouldve gone down, due to an increasing number of small alliances registrating over the 24h time (there are more small alliances than big ones...). In my opinion, it would give all a fair chance, regardless of size. Actually not a bad idea, gives everyone a 24h window to signup, and then let's CCP pass any blame off to luck and/or probability. Win-win, tbh. Certainly better than button-camping. And the whiners that are whining now would still whine if they did'nt get in. Wouldn't change that fact
Suboran Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.01.13 23:53:00 - [107] top alliances should get priority over these crappy ones in empire that nobody has heard of
Lady Alystra Amarr Big Bong Quantum Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2009.01.13 23:55:00 - [108] Originally by: Tiger Trader Can we not move on and look forward to the upcoming event rather than dwell on thing that can not and will not be changed! Originally by: MsCat And the whiners that are whining now would still whine if they did'nt get in. Wouldn't change that fact Dear Ms ***** Cat It seems that you have created 2 different alts with the solo purpose of spamming this thread. Isn't that kind of lame? Lady A Because we DGAF! ... and you can DGAF too. DGAF recruitment thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=471457
Charlie Luciano The Administration Cosa Nostra.	Posted - 2009.01.14 00:32:00 - [109] Originally by: Suboran top alliances should get priority over these crappy ones in empire that nobody has heard of Would that not exclude your own alliance from the tournament? Point being; how would you rate the alliances (apart from the obvious of taking the final 8 or 16 from last tournament, which then might mean that these "top" alliances may not be included anyway) without actually going by size, amount of outposts owned, amount of caps, amount of smack on CAOD etc.? It's a very slippery slope once you start saying certain alliances should be admitted based solely on their achievements in the real universe of EVE (because I think we have all agreed on the tournament not having much to do with how pvp is normally conducted on TQ)...
Ard UnjiiGo The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.01.14 01:11:00 - [110] Originally by: Suboran top alliances should get priority over these crappy ones in empire that nobody has heard of Our "crappy" empire alliance certainly hopes we draw your "top" alliance: Open mouth and insert foot.
McFly C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.14 02:52:00 - [111] Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo Originally by: Suboran top alliances should get priority over these crappy ones in empire that nobody has heard of Our "crappy" empire alliance certainly hopes we draw your "top" alliance: Open mouth and insert foot. Another 'Crappy' empire alliance ringing in. Also if the tourney's only pulled from previous tournament brackets, than no new alliances would get in. No I totally agree with many people about the small alliances that dont show for matches, or field comedy setups. Like that guy I think it was AT IV that was piloting 4 characters trying to use a disco phoon to pop incoming missiles or something or rather. Anyway the point is, there will never be a perfect system, are there some decent suggestions here yes. Are there some ridiculous ones, most definitely. The tournament has a long history of underdogs coming out of no where and toppling a running favorite. AT V saw a lot of this particularly, Noteriety, The Kadeshi, Cry Havoc, and some others. The question comes down to, how do you judge a tournament team? Cry Havoc created their alliance shortly before signups for AT V and had an awesome showing climbing to the Semi-Finals. They held no space, had not outposts, operated out of empire at the time. Yet they had every right to be there in my opinion. So for all the fanboys out there *****ing about not getting in... Sorry, yes system is flawed, unlike AT V there was ample notice of who what when and how signups were going to take place. Those genuinely interested made the necessary preparations to ensure their Alliance was in the tournament. Anyone who said, it's alright I'll just signup when I get the chance... took the risk of not making it in the list. 64 slots, hundreds of posts in the rules/signups/AT VI stickied threads, and people are shocked that the signups were filled in less than a couple hours? Pay attention to what was going on, take the necessary steps if it's important to you, and guess what you get a slot. I did. --McFly--
MsCat	Posted - 2009.01.14 03:22:00 - [112] Edited by: MsCat on 14/01/2009 03:27:35 Originally by: Lady Alystra Originally by: Tiger Trader Can we not move on and look forward to the upcoming event rather than dwell on thing that can not and will not be changed! Originally by: MsCat And the whiners that are whining now would still whine if they did'nt get in. Wouldn't change that fact Dear Ms ***** Cat It seems that you have created 2 different alts with the solo purpose of spamming this thread. Isn't that kind of lame? Lady A wtf are you talking about? not an npc corp there champ. edit: and im way to lazy to use 2 alts to spam a thread lol.
Joder Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2009.01.14 09:18:00 - [113] Originally by: McFly Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo Originally by: Suboran top alliances should get priority over these crappy ones in empire that nobody has heard of Our "crappy" empire alliance certainly hopes we draw your "top" alliance: Open mouth and insert foot. Another 'Crappy' empire alliance ringing in. Also if the tourney's only pulled from previous tournament brackets, than no new alliances would get in. No I totally agree with many people about the small alliances that dont show for matches, or field comedy setups. Like that guy I think it was AT IV that was piloting 4 characters trying to use a disco phoon to pop incoming missiles or something or rather. Anyway the point is, there will never be a perfect system, are there some decent suggestions here yes. Are there some ridiculous ones, most definitely. The tournament has a long history of underdogs coming out of no where and toppling a running favorite. AT V saw a lot of this particularly, Noteriety, The Kadeshi, Cry Havoc, and some others. The question comes down to, how do you judge a tournament team? Cry Havoc created their alliance shortly before signups for AT V and had an awesome showing climbing to the Semi-Finals. They held no space, had not outposts, operated out of empire at the time. Yet they had every right to be there in my opinion. So for all the fanboys out there *****ing about not getting in... Sorry, yes system is flawed, unlike AT V there was ample notice of who what when and how signups were going to take place. Those genuinely interested made the necessary preparations to ensure their Alliance was in the tournament. Anyone who said, it's alright I'll just signup when I get the chance... took the risk of not making it in the list. 64 slots, hundreds of posts in the rules/signups/AT VI stickied threads, and people are shocked that the signups were filled in less than a couple hours? Pay attention to what was going on, take the necessary steps if it's important to you, and guess what you get a slot. I did. --McFly-- Another "Crappy" alliance here. Mcfly hit the nail on the head, CryHavoc are a great example, I really hope we can do half as well as they did. (mistress suffering we are coming for you ) We as an alliance never want to control space, hold outposts, take part in the blob fest that is 0.0 or spam CAOD. Does that mean we do not deserve a place in the tourney even though I took a day off work to enter us? /me preps his disco phoon and 4 accounts, bugger i only have 3 monitors
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.01.14 12:07:00 - [114] Originally by: CCP Claw This is not the 'big alliance tournament' nor the '0.0 spaceholding alliance tournament'. This is the Alliance Tournament and all alliances, big and small, are welcome to compete. We have made a major step up from last time in terms of teams entered and we are really looking forward to this new tournament as I know many others are. Shame because this format is from my point of view (a mostly impartial viewer) not as interesting. In my opinion allow higher end equipment and/or raise entrance fee significantly and actually give something of worth as a reward. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
csebal HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2009.01.14 12:13:00 - [115] Originally by: Charlie Luciano Oh and did I mention dTja vu btw? Didn't we also have people from non-participating alliances state that last years tournament would be crap without all the big alliances in? Didn't we have several big alliances whine about not participating because they couldn't be bothered signing up at the time CCP opened sign ups? Didn't we also have just as a successful tournament as the ones before that (one would think it was successful since they decided to do another one)? All in all it seems like we have to go through this every single tournament - whine about rules, whine about prizes, whine about whines, whine about non-participation because someone didn't bother doing their homework and finally whine about EVE-TV smacking alliances they don't like... Actually, whining about non-participation for AT5 did result in a rather important change.. the reservation of slots for the top performenrs from past tournaments. You look at that change and tell me it isnt a good one, then go on whining about the whiners. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Phear the arrows of the HUNs >>---->
Charlie Luciano The Administration Cosa Nostra.	Posted - 2009.01.14 12:49:00 - [116] Edited by: Charlie Luciano on 14/01/2009 12:49:24 Originally by: csebal Originally by: Charlie Luciano Oh and did I mention dTja vu btw? Didn't we also have people from non-participating alliances state that last years tournament would be crap without all the big alliances in? Didn't we have several big alliances whine about not participating because they couldn't be bothered signing up at the time CCP opened sign ups? Didn't we also have just as a successful tournament as the ones before that (one would think it was successful since they decided to do another one)? All in all it seems like we have to go through this every single tournament - whine about rules, whine about prizes, whine about whines, whine about non-participation because someone didn't bother doing their homework and finally whine about EVE-TV smacking alliances they don't like... Actually, whining about non-participation for AT5 did result in a rather important change.. the reservation of slots for the top performenrs from past tournaments. You look at that change and tell me it isnt a good one, then go on whining about the whiners. I never said anything about last years whining not resulting in some improvements nor have I said that reservations for top performers is a bad idea. Furthermore I'm sure some of the whining from this tournament will result in improvements for the next tournament, however that's not what some of the whining is about - some alliances (non of which were top performers last tournament) somehow think they should receive preferential treatment just because they hold a lot of space, can field 100 caps or whatever. All I said is that it's a never-ending circle of whine, and obviously some is justified and helps improving the tournaments. Other is just whine because it's easier to blame CCP for a crap tournament than admitting that you ****ed up... _____________________________ A Parola d'onuri vali sangu
KTOZ Caldari Evil Plankton The Church.	Posted - 2009.01.14 13:35:00 - [117] For the next time maybe the prewious tournements top performers can go directly to the finals So there will be more open slots in the qualification rounds. But it s ridiculous to say xx allience is a big allience so they must get in before yy allience who have only 20 ppl.. If you were a top performer in a prewious tourney you are a big allience for the tourney or no one care about how big you are on eve's political map.
Dakaris Zulu Minmatar Red 42	Posted - 2009.01.14 16:38:00 - [118] Maybe a similar format to the FIFA world cup would be better. Automatic Place for the Holder. Unlimited amount of entrants allowed which are then sorted out via qualification groups over say 1-2 months previous to the actual final. The top 16 teams from the previous tournament are seeded and goes into a top tier to avoid each other in qualification The next 16 are seeded into a 2nd tier and so on. All other entrants go into a hat and are picked into qualifying groups. Group Winners go into finals Runners up also if numbers allow and 3rd place guys go into a playoff (maybe 1v1 inty fight penalty shoot out scenario) all dependant on number of entrants. This way only those alliances who are in the final deserve to be there by actually fighting their way there rather than just being at home hitting F5. Also extending signup to either a day or weekend should allow everyone to apply. Maybe getting someone to run the events part of eve like I think someone said earlier wouldn't be a bad idea hey? I bet there are a few decent candidates in the game capable of doing a good job. Cheers o/
F90OEX F9X	Posted - 2009.01.14 19:23:00 - [119] Originally by: Blazde Originally by: Rajere If you wanna argue the alliance tournament is drifting further away from "real" alliances, then why aren't you questioning The Five? or Green Alliance from last tourney? Or the 4 spots held for whoever the plex runners deem their champion from FW? Most of those entries are probably place holder alliances and they will be populated by the time the tournament begins, but even if they aren't, <50 member alliances have done well in the past, and with the rules this tourney, they could easily go all the way & win this one. I totally am questioning phoney shell alliances like The Five and (as JS LiamElms pointed out) Prime Orbital Systems. Those are the worst. The point is entering the alliance tourney should not be a simple case of paying 1 bil + 500m deposit. Just as entering the Olympics isn't as simple as me declaring my back yard a sovereign state. It should be for real alliances that are relevant politically & militarily all year round. And no I'm not discriminating against small alliances, or empire alliances, let's have lots of them it makes for good fun and it's a very important channel for them to gain recognition. But there needs to be some minimum criteria. Exactly what I don't know but here's food-for-thought: Alliance logo submission process Quote: Only logos from alliances that have been in effect for six months or more and have over 150 active members will be accepted. CONCORD Makes Revolutionary Statement of Recognition For Alliances as Starbase Components Hit SCC Markets Quote: In a surprise announcement at 12:00 EVT today Irhes Angireh, Head of CONCORD's Inner Circle, declared CONCORD to be in full official support of the outer rim alliances. Further, she stated that official provision had been made for alliances to, for the first time in history, become recorded entities on the level of nation-states. ... What a load of Bollo@# .. Anyone who plays Eve who meets the requirements should be able to enter. There are 1000s of players, who even if they where in a large alliance would never have the chance to be apart of the tourney. If you even bothered to read the thread there where many large 0.0 alliances who did not even apply during the time frame. And comparing the Olympics to the tourney LOL hahahhaha
Vily Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.15 02:09:00 - [120] its a shame that 15-20 minutes where the sign-up was down was when we attempted to enter and was told it was full. and once again why on gods green earth then make us WAIT three WEEKS to tell us? what a farce
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Otherworld Empire Productions	Posted - 2009.01.15 02:21:00 - [121] Well if it told you it was full and you didn't try again then you already knew no ?
Woodwraith Total Mayhem. Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.01.15 02:29:00 - [122] why is there a cap on the number of alliances that can enter?? get 3 or 4 guys to run the initial matches until you whittle it down to a manageable size, they dont take that long tbh. If a small empire alliance wants to put theyre money where theyre turrets are, let em.
Thresh Avery Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.01.15 05:42:00 - [123] Originally by: Blazde I totally am questioning phoney shell alliances like The Five and (as JS LiamElms pointed out) Prime Orbital Systems. Those are the worst. The point is entering the alliance tourney should not be a simple case of paying 1 bil + 500m deposit. Just as entering the Olympics isn't as simple as me declaring my back yard a sovereign state. It should be for real alliances that are relevant politically & militarily all year round. And no I'm not discriminating against small alliances, or empire alliances, let's have lots of them it makes for good fun and it's a very important channel for them to gain recognition. But there needs to be some minimum criteria. Exactly what I don't know but here's food-for-thought: Alliance logo submission process Quote: Only logos from alliances that have been in effect for six months or more and have over 150 active members will be accepted. CONCORD Makes Revolutionary Statement of Recognition For Alliances as Starbase Components Hit SCC Markets Quote: In a surprise announcement at 12:00 EVT today Irhes Angireh, Head of CONCORD's Inner Circle, declared CONCORD to be in full official support of the outer rim alliances. Further, she stated that official provision had been made for alliances to, for the first time in history, become recorded entities on the level of nation-states. ... I couldn't agree with this more Blazde! Out of interest, if it's good enough for CCP to say you can't have an alliance logo submitted unless you have 150 members and were formed over 6 months ago, then why should they be able to participate in an alliance tournament? Aren't their logos accepted because CCP don't view them as serious alliances unless they've been around long enough and have lots of members, therefore they won't waste their graphics department's time editing images for an alliance to disband days later? Now i know logos aren't a big deal, and i'm not saying they are, but they give an alliance an identity. And the reason people say watching BoB vs Goons in the tournament would be more exciting than Alliance X versus Alliance Y is because of their history and context. Just like England vs Germany when it comes to football! It wouldn't be the same if it was Lithuania vs Mali, even if the game played out just the same. So i guess you could say, if an alliance hasn't been around for 6 months and doesn't have 40 members or more, they shouldn't be eligible perhaps. Just a thought anyhow, and i say 40 members so it doesn't exclude those smaller alliances that are good PvPers and deserve the right to compete. When you think about it, this should solve the issue of people forming an alliance a few weeks before sign-ups and then banding together their mates from other corps/alliances just to make a crack team for the tournament - it's an alliance tournament, not a corp tournament. Alliances are formed of plural entities, not one corporation or one person, and 40 members is around a healthy corp-size, so it stands to reason that above that number assumes there is more than one corp involved and is supposedly a genuine alliance. Anyway, good luck to everyone this year and make the most of it! I have fond memories of the 5th and hope you enjoy competing in this one just as much.
Susan Kennedy Gallente Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.01.15 08:27:00 - [124] Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 15/01/2009 08:35:00 As the executor figure of a 42 man alliance who managed to get into the alliance I should like to pipe up. Any one with 2 braincells would have guessed that the slots would have been filled rapidly, especially considering all the corps that suddenly had a new alliance ticker below their names on the forums in the few weeks before the sign up process. I knew three weeks in advance the procedure for signing up. On the day, i set my alarm, got up, signed up, and went back to bed. I dont make a habit of setting an alarm clock for eve, but in this case I had the rest of my alliance depending on me, so I put up with the inconvieninece and we were rewarded for it. I do feel slightly sorry for some of the bigger alliances who failed to get into the draw, and some of the missing faces will take certainly take a small amount of the shine off the alliance. I also feel sorry for those that seem to be taking not being in this tournie so seriously, especialy considering my alliance are treating it in the spirit it was intended - as a bit of fun and no real hope of winning. But - from experience I would also note some of the bigger alliances are the worst pvpers I have ever come across, dependent on blobs, caps, and ill gotten isk to survive. A small gang pvp contest loses nothing by these not attending. I also find it incredibly amusing that "chubby chubbers chubba chups" are in the tournie and the big scary evil 0.0 alliances are not. Because their executor was down the launderette at 11:00 am washing his smalls. At the end of the day, if getting in the tournie was not considered important enough for the executors of the big alliances to devote some time and inconvenience to the signing up process, they really shouldnt be that aggrieved they didnt get in. I think it is churlish and spoiled to start complaining about CCP on this issue. They gave the gamebase what they wanted and gave clear instructions on how to apply. Bad luck on not getting in - to those that did I will see you on the battlefield :) EDIT: My turn to be spoiled - Boost the prizes CCP they are rubbish!! EDIT: 41 man alliance - we just booted someone! Thats 2.5 % of our manpower down!!!
Evil Edna The Priory	Posted - 2009.01.15 21:39:00 - [125] epic name, awful post
Jonus Rath The Collective	Posted - 2009.01.16 06:33:00 - [126] Edited by: Jonus Rath on 16/01/2009 06:36:45 I have the feeling that CCP is already working on the solution. If I'm not mistaken CCP Wrangler mentioned at the fanfest that an ingame tool/feature is being implemented to organize such events, automatically. ----------------------------------------- My guess is a fully automated ingame ladder point system, used to qualify the teams to the annual big show. Whenever an alliance assembles a team ready to compete, an officer with the appropriate role would hit the Tournament button and join its lobby, until another team from the universe do the same. Whenever both teams gave the green light, the system would "transport" both teams to the arena where the fight occurs. Once the fight is finished or the time is up, they would teleport back to home. The winning team gains ladder points, which amount is depending of the opposite team's ladder ranking (if the top dog wins the fight against the underdog, they will receive less ladder points, but if the underdog is the winner, they should receive more). Annually the top XX alliances that fought their way up on the ladder, will win an entry to the big show. Inspired by Guild Wars GVG system.
cruxix M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:51:00 - [127] As a paying subscriber I value seeing the both larger and smaller alliances compete in the tournament. Half of the fun is the crazy tactics that outsider teams use and the other half is seeing the personalities from the larger alliances that make the game more than killing rats.
Exie Phantasmal Collective Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.16 23:25:00 - [128] I personally would like to see an expansion that creates a football type set up... have it not based on Faction Warfare, but alliances. Then the tournament can be a world cup of sorts... based on actual skill and ability. Will make for a great Tournament final! Can even have it geographical, so rivalries can be played upon. In my mind that kind of system should not be too hard to create. Have a stargate at the Alliance Head Office that the alliance team can use, jumps them in to the staging area, computer can scan and reject those that do not follow the rules. Then when both teams are ready it warps them into the arena... begin! The team that wins at the end of the round win, have it auto warp them out. Tally points, have ranks & stats. Sounds like a lot of fun to me. E...
csebal HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2009.01.17 14:17:00 - [129] Originally by: Exie I personally would like to see an expansion that creates a football type set up... have it not based on Faction Warfare, but alliances. Then the tournament can be a world cup of sorts... based on actual skill and ability. Will make for a great Tournament final! Can even have it geographical, so rivalries can be played upon. In my mind that kind of system should not be too hard to create. Have a stargate at the Alliance Head Office that the alliance team can use, jumps them in to the staging area, computer can scan and reject those that do not follow the rules. Then when both teams are ready it warps them into the arena... begin! The team that wins at the end of the round win, have it auto warp them out. Tally points, have ranks & stats. Sounds like a lot of fun to me. E... +1. Just what i'm thinking. Would easily solve the not enough slots issue, would add a completely new type of activity for the players and i think it would be the first sporting league made in an MMO. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Phear the arrows of the HUNs >>---->
Quartex Gallente Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.18 19:24:00 - [130] OK.... so it seems like first come first served approach in business/school/College hours was a really bad idea. However, even if you made it at 1930 GMT someone would be disadvantaged and it would still be down to who presses the button first. However, the variety of fights we'll see from the micro Alliances will make things interesting . Please let them turn up for the matches, or I fear skysc**r sized forum flames. Best solution I reckon would be to have 2 tournies a year. First is for qualification and based on a knock out system. Second is the traditional one. If numbers were too high in qualification why not throw 6 Alliances in together (randomly to avoid collusion) and select the 2 Alliances with highest value assets left on the field after x mins. Keep doing this until you have you 64 Championship teams (Alliance Death Match ). This works well commercially with a second pay per view opportunity, in game terms you add a further ISK sink and interest can be added when pilot numbers are normally low. Next year may have Tech3** to complicate fights further, especially for the commentators! Start planning now CCP ;-)
Juki Nojo	Posted - 2009.01.19 01:57:00 - [131] Originally by: Vaal Erit Hell, you could even do something very fun like have each alliance executor (or team leader) get into a HAC and then drop them all @ 0km and the last 48 standing get in. lols.[/quote Would love too see that =)
TRYPTIC House of Stark FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2009.01.20 22:35:00 - [132] IMO, only way to do it is to hold open registration for, say, 48 hours. Tournament slots are then handed out by lottery draw. Entry fee payed by those not winning a slot is refunded. Regards, Tryp
Hunter Nay Hunter Group	Posted - 2009.01.21 22:54:00 - [133] The main issue I see people talkin about is that only 1 person can apply, why not just make it so 1 week before rego the executer has to pre-apply, nonimate people that can apply, then at rego any of the nonimated people can apply.
Antonius Hari BoB Enterprises Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2009.01.22 09:00:00 - [134] I read somewhere, about 1 page ago, that an alliance shouldnt be allowed in if it hadnt created its logo. For those of you that may not have known, in particular, our alliance, we had settled on a logo after a few months of being formed, the day we went to sub, the logo submition process broke after a patch, 9 months later before it was repaired. Therefore the arguement on logos is moot point, we have had a logo pretty much from the beginning, but CCP broke the logo submission process and till recently never worked. We fly under our banner proudly, just because it is ingame doesnt change the fact. Sorry for those alliances that didnt get in, we are also dissapointed as a small alliance not to be fighting some of those big names of EVE, we had pysched ourselves for some of the big name battles, only to see them not get in. TO boot, our 1st fight is agaisnt a top 16 team which has us very excited.

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