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Conroy Lyonne	Posted - 2004.08.12 00:31:00 - [61] The lack of response/discussion on projectiles is disturbing. It is obvious to everyone there is a problem there, yet STILL nothing. What does it take to get noticed? Is it just me or are the Minimatar the race that have to train up other races BS's the most? Maybe they should just give us +50% skill in training other BS's, since that is what they want us to do.
Conroy Lyonne	Posted - 2004.08.12 00:31:00 - [62] The lack of response/discussion on projectiles is disturbing. It is obvious to everyone there is a problem there, yet STILL nothing. What does it take to get noticed? Is it just me or are the Minimatar the race that have to train up other races BS's the most? Maybe they should just give us +50% skill in training other BS's, since that is what they want us to do.
Siddy	Posted - 2004.08.12 00:36:00 - [63] Edited by: Siddy on 12/08/2004 00:38:53 Originally by: Conroy Lyonne The lack of response/discussion on projectiles is disturbing. It is obvious to everyone there is a problem there, yet STILL nothing. What does it take to get noticed? - buying ticket to icelan - make a explosive devise, whit dmg mod of 15 and RoF 1,2 seconds whit 1.3332 rad/sec trakking - go to CCP's HQ - yell: ALLAH AKBAR!!! and activate devise - watch TomB nerffing it to useles state /edit: i know i know, i shuld not troll n flame... but im tired so screw it -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.08.12 00:36:00 - [64] Edited by: Siddy on 12/08/2004 00:38:53 Originally by: Conroy Lyonne The lack of response/discussion on projectiles is disturbing. It is obvious to everyone there is a problem there, yet STILL nothing. What does it take to get noticed? - buying ticket to icelan - make a explosive devise, whit dmg mod of 15 and RoF 1,2 seconds whit 1.3332 rad/sec trakking - go to CCP's HQ - yell: ALLAH AKBAR!!! and activate devise - watch TomB nerffing it to useles state /edit: i know i know, i shuld not troll n flame... but im tired so screw it -------------------------------------------
Meatead	Posted - 2004.08.12 08:38:00 - [65] I am fully agreeing that the tempest is a subpar t2 bs. Heck I bet even some of the t1 bs can kick its bottom (geddon and scorp for sure given the right setups) Fact is - apoc/mega/raven doesnt have to fit less than its best main weapon of choice - so why should a tempest have to? We have less turret/less tracking/less slots to compete with these bs as it is. Even with close range setups the damage is pitiful compared with any other. What they need to do is change the rof on large proj, make it so they use cap (to stop them saying that they are balanced atm due to no cap use) and increase damage on ammo - this is how far they have taken the nerfing of large proj. And siddy, Im not perfect at spelling, nor are most people - but you really need to put your posts into a spell checker before you post and then whine because people dont read them all - maybe English isnt your main language and thats fine - but take the 2mins to correct the text and Im sure you wont have to ask people to reread your posts again.
Meatead	Posted - 2004.08.12 08:38:00 - [66] I am fully agreeing that the tempest is a subpar t2 bs. Heck I bet even some of the t1 bs can kick its bottom (geddon and scorp for sure given the right setups) Fact is - apoc/mega/raven doesnt have to fit less than its best main weapon of choice - so why should a tempest have to? We have less turret/less tracking/less slots to compete with these bs as it is. Even with close range setups the damage is pitiful compared with any other. What they need to do is change the rof on large proj, make it so they use cap (to stop them saying that they are balanced atm due to no cap use) and increase damage on ammo - this is how far they have taken the nerfing of large proj. And siddy, Im not perfect at spelling, nor are most people - but you really need to put your posts into a spell checker before you post and then whine because people dont read them all - maybe English isnt your main language and thats fine - but take the 2mins to correct the text and Im sure you wont have to ask people to reread your posts again.
Valentine Keen	Posted - 2004.08.12 09:19:00 - [67] I agree here, projectiles are awful right now. Yes things needed to be tweaked, but they went too far. I'm doing missions killing cruisers and with my dual 650s I'm having to use 2 Tracking Enhancer 1s and a Tracking computer 1 to even get them to hit at well beyond their optimal ranges. Also, our corporate sales of bpcs for Tempests have plummetted to almost nothing, with only die-hard Minmatar fans buying them. Until now, our sales were fairly balanced, now we can't shift Tempests at all.
Valentine Keen	Posted - 2004.08.12 09:19:00 - [68] I agree here, projectiles are awful right now. Yes things needed to be tweaked, but they went too far. I'm doing missions killing cruisers and with my dual 650s I'm having to use 2 Tracking Enhancer 1s and a Tracking computer 1 to even get them to hit at well beyond their optimal ranges. Also, our corporate sales of bpcs for Tempests have plummetted to almost nothing, with only die-hard Minmatar fans buying them. Until now, our sales were fairly balanced, now we can't shift Tempests at all.
Shin Taka	Posted - 2004.08.12 09:47:00 - [69] I choose tempest for its flexibility in weaponary and good flexible midslots. Atm Sheild tanking, Main defense on a tempest is broken, managed to move to armour tanking, which works well, but not as well as say an Apoc's armour tanking. The tempest uses no cap for its guns, which is a great advantage, but the guns don't hit well. Because of the good armour tanking, I can only fit 1200mm and cruise launchers, and enough cap to run it reasonably. I can up to seige, but its very very tight on grid and CPU. I can switch to 1400mm and not hit anything bar a station, or an AFK BS pilot. I can fit close range guns, but then i need an MWD, web and scrambler, which means i can't run the tank. I wouldn't mind not running the tank, but a Blasterthron outdamages me and carries more drones than me, so i would've thought a better tank was the only thing i have over him. At Range, Apoc > Tempest, more damage, better defence. At Close range Mega > Tempest, Better damage, better defence (mega pilot uses cap relays, 20k, Tempest pilot has to use Cap recharger 2s, 7mill) At Mid-range, Armageddon > Tempest, Megapulses rarely miss, do excellant damage and use no ammo. They use negligable cap now as well. Missile boat, Raven > Tempest, which is fine, i'm cool with this fact, but where does it leave the tempest? It can't take damage as well as any of the other T2s, Its can't deal damage as well as any of the other T2s, and it gets out-stamina'd by Ravens or Apocs. If Sheild tanking ever becomes viable on tempests again, might be better off, if projectiles learn to hit, we might be better off.... It seems that theres imbalance, so a drastic change is made, and then it goes full circle, the raven/Apoc used to be complained about, now its the tempest. Next the Megathron? ----------- Keeper of the Wombat 2004.09.03 00:42:20notifyTraining of the skill Repair Systems lvl 6 has been completed.
Shin Taka	Posted - 2004.08.12 09:47:00 - [70] I choose tempest for its flexibility in weaponary and good flexible midslots. Atm Sheild tanking, Main defense on a tempest is broken, managed to move to armour tanking, which works well, but not as well as say an Apoc's armour tanking. The tempest uses no cap for its guns, which is a great advantage, but the guns don't hit well. Because of the good armour tanking, I can only fit 1200mm and cruise launchers, and enough cap to run it reasonably. I can up to seige, but its very very tight on grid and CPU. I can switch to 1400mm and not hit anything bar a station, or an AFK BS pilot. I can fit close range guns, but then i need an MWD, web and scrambler, which means i can't run the tank. I wouldn't mind not running the tank, but a Blasterthron outdamages me and carries more drones than me, so i would've thought a better tank was the only thing i have over him. At Range, Apoc > Tempest, more damage, better defence. At Close range Mega > Tempest, Better damage, better defence (mega pilot uses cap relays, 20k, Tempest pilot has to use Cap recharger 2s, 7mill) At Mid-range, Armageddon > Tempest, Megapulses rarely miss, do excellant damage and use no ammo. They use negligable cap now as well. Missile boat, Raven > Tempest, which is fine, i'm cool with this fact, but where does it leave the tempest? It can't take damage as well as any of the other T2s, Its can't deal damage as well as any of the other T2s, and it gets out-stamina'd by Ravens or Apocs. If Sheild tanking ever becomes viable on tempests again, might be better off, if projectiles learn to hit, we might be better off.... It seems that theres imbalance, so a drastic change is made, and then it goes full circle, the raven/Apoc used to be complained about, now its the tempest. Next the Megathron? ----------- Keeper of the Wombat 2004.09.03 00:42:20notifyTraining of the skill Repair Systems lvl 6 has been completed.
Siddy	Posted - 2004.08.12 10:03:00 - [71] Edited by: Siddy on 12/08/2004 10:05:29 and lets not forget the tempest's Long range Syndroma, what means: it cant hit at close range and do crap damage at long ranges whit long range guns ammo even whit damage upgrades to long range ammo, there is still no point using them in artilliries cause they will not deal enought damage hell - all this trakking mess and unability to hit whuld be compensated whit damage - if the hit from 1,4 Meters in diameter ammos culd even tickle something - a good 500 - 400 dmg hits it used to do inseted 160 - 120 hits it do now whuld comensate a LOT! But nooo, lets nerf em to hell and watch all the minmatar pilots whit 5M+ gunnery and tempest skills to cry out loud (i got only missile launcer operation skill at 5 to raven and im still doing beter damage whit it, not to mention beter tankking) -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.08.12 10:03:00 - [72] Edited by: Siddy on 12/08/2004 10:05:29 and lets not forget the tempest's Long range Syndroma, what means: it cant hit at close range and do crap damage at long ranges whit long range guns ammo even whit damage upgrades to long range ammo, there is still no point using them in artilliries cause they will not deal enought damage hell - all this trakking mess and unability to hit whuld be compensated whit damage - if the hit from 1,4 Meters in diameter ammos culd even tickle something - a good 500 - 400 dmg hits it used to do inseted 160 - 120 hits it do now whuld comensate a LOT! But nooo, lets nerf em to hell and watch all the minmatar pilots whit 5M+ gunnery and tempest skills to cry out loud (i got only missile launcer operation skill at 5 to raven and im still doing beter damage whit it, not to mention beter tankking) -------------------------------------------
BlackPlague	Posted - 2004.08.12 11:54:00 - [73] The lack of any response is troubling. Seems to be the usual tho... quick to screw it up and take forever to make it right... or at least tolerable. Come on CCP, is the msg you're sending that we're all wrong .... hmmmm Give the Tempest and Projectiles the loving they deserve. My Siggie Scares Seleene... Boo!
BlackPlague	Posted - 2004.08.12 11:54:00 - [74] The lack of any response is troubling. Seems to be the usual tho... quick to screw it up and take forever to make it right... or at least tolerable. Come on CCP, is the msg you're sending that we're all wrong .... hmmmm Give the Tempest and Projectiles the loving they deserve. My Siggie Scares Seleene... Boo!
Mistress Zhantine	Posted - 2004.08.12 13:46:00 - [75] actually i believe that is exactly the message they are sending... as far as tomb is concerned projectiles havent been nerfed and are working in the manner intended... to that end i wonder whether he has actually tried to go out in a tempest ratting or well tried to do anything in one... unfortunately the current system has meant that there is a mass exodus of pilots from min BS to well anything really.... when my friend in a scorp using tachyon lasers is outdamaging my tempest with 1400s both with DoT and having higher damage in single shots you gotta truly believe something is wrong... You see what power is... Holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them... 2004.07.28 21:21:45combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Mortifier, wrecking for 916.3 damage.
Mistress Zhantine	Posted - 2004.08.12 13:46:00 - [76] actually i believe that is exactly the message they are sending... as far as tomb is concerned projectiles havent been nerfed and are working in the manner intended... to that end i wonder whether he has actually tried to go out in a tempest ratting or well tried to do anything in one... unfortunately the current system has meant that there is a mass exodus of pilots from min BS to well anything really.... when my friend in a scorp using tachyon lasers is outdamaging my tempest with 1400s both with DoT and having higher damage in single shots you gotta truly believe something is wrong... You see what power is... Holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them... 2004.07.28 21:21:45combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Mortifier, wrecking for 916.3 damage.
DKMech	Posted - 2004.08.12 14:31:00 - [77] Yeah my fighting char skills are twice as high for Mim BS and for large projectile turrets as they are for ammar and large lasers. Guess what ship im flying. Its not the tempest.
DKMech	Posted - 2004.08.12 14:31:00 - [78] Yeah my fighting char skills are twice as high for Mim BS and for large projectile turrets as they are for ammar and large lasers. Guess what ship im flying. Its not the tempest.
Lysender	Posted - 2004.08.12 15:05:00 - [79] Projectiles do need some love but not at the expense of lasers and hybrids. Just make projectiles a little better and leave the rest alone.
Lysender	Posted - 2004.08.12 15:05:00 - [80] Projectiles do need some love but not at the expense of lasers and hybrids. Just make projectiles a little better and leave the rest alone.
Siddy	Posted - 2004.08.12 18:01:00 - [81] Originally by: Lysender Projectiles do need some love but not at the expense of lasers and hybrids. Just make projectiles a little better and leave the rest alone. or make em Diferent and leave rest alone -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.08.12 18:01:00 - [82] Originally by: Lysender Projectiles do need some love but not at the expense of lasers and hybrids. Just make projectiles a little better and leave the rest alone. or make em Diferent and leave rest alone -------------------------------------------
Roderic Excelion	Posted - 2004.08.12 18:13:00 - [83] I notice everyone keeps speaking of the 1400mm's and not the 280mm. Small guns need 'love' (I'll never understand this use of the word) too, especially the autocannons. I WANT to use these, but I'm doing better damage at double range with Radio crystals on light gattling pulse lasers against armour. Something has to be off for this to be true.
Roderic Excelion	Posted - 2004.08.12 18:13:00 - [84] I notice everyone keeps speaking of the 1400mm's and not the 280mm. Small guns need 'love' (I'll never understand this use of the word) too, especially the autocannons. I WANT to use these, but I'm doing better damage at double range with Radio crystals on light gattling pulse lasers against armour. Something has to be off for this to be true.
Ta'krite	Posted - 2004.08.12 19:41:00 - [85] sorry im slow, this is in response to the first post i think ths is a brillent idea as it wold make th minmatar ships much more individual giving them back there mastery of long range combat,while not making them take the amarr short range place. after all projectiles are long range weapons and i know at the mo if i try to hit anything at long range the dmage is naff, and if i get up close and personal i cant hit anything at all, this is why the guns are so bad, but the ammo change rather than the turret chage deals wit all the probs in one swoop. shame the developers dont read these pages aint it
Ta'krite	Posted - 2004.08.12 19:41:00 - [86] sorry im slow, this is in response to the first post i think ths is a brillent idea as it wold make th minmatar ships much more individual giving them back there mastery of long range combat,while not making them take the amarr short range place. after all projectiles are long range weapons and i know at the mo if i try to hit anything at long range the dmage is naff, and if i get up close and personal i cant hit anything at all, this is why the guns are so bad, but the ammo change rather than the turret chage deals wit all the probs in one swoop. shame the developers dont read these pages aint it
Tragar	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:23:00 - [87] After having a play with projectiles on my Apoc I wouldn't go back to lasers... My setup: High slots 6 x 1400 (3 with EM (38k optimal hits effectively to 70k+), 3 with Phased Plasma (44k optimal hits effectively to 75k+) I also have longer range ammo in cargo for sniping. 1 x 720 (standard fit nuclear but em for short distance) 1 x named heavy launcher (standard fit defenders but have a number of different missiles in cargo) Med slots MWD 3 x Cap recharger II Low slots Large armour repairer 3x hardeners (if I'm off anywhere "dangerous" I replace 1 with another armour repairer) 2x tracking enhancer II Gyro II (plus a hanger full of mixed drones) The huge advantage this gives me is that I can run either my MWD or armour repairers constantly while still firing full speed (well if you can call projectiles speedy). I can keep most things at a range I like through my MWD and if they do catch me I can keep a good armour state easily unless ganged up on... If I use lasers, the only way I can keep my cap (and live) is to not have a MWD or not use 2 hardeners. This usually means that I am much less likely to stick around if I'm threatened by a scrambling frigate. In a summary, I have sacrificed the DoT of tachyons & lasers for the ability to just keep firing and also to keep my cap for running on MWD or armour repair.
Tragar	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:23:00 - [88] After having a play with projectiles on my Apoc I wouldn't go back to lasers... My setup: High slots 6 x 1400 (3 with EM (38k optimal hits effectively to 70k+), 3 with Phased Plasma (44k optimal hits effectively to 75k+) I also have longer range ammo in cargo for sniping. 1 x 720 (standard fit nuclear but em for short distance) 1 x named heavy launcher (standard fit defenders but have a number of different missiles in cargo) Med slots MWD 3 x Cap recharger II Low slots Large armour repairer 3x hardeners (if I'm off anywhere "dangerous" I replace 1 with another armour repairer) 2x tracking enhancer II Gyro II (plus a hanger full of mixed drones) The huge advantage this gives me is that I can run either my MWD or armour repairers constantly while still firing full speed (well if you can call projectiles speedy). I can keep most things at a range I like through my MWD and if they do catch me I can keep a good armour state easily unless ganged up on... If I use lasers, the only way I can keep my cap (and live) is to not have a MWD or not use 2 hardeners. This usually means that I am much less likely to stick around if I'm threatened by a scrambling frigate. In a summary, I have sacrificed the DoT of tachyons & lasers for the ability to just keep firing and also to keep my cap for running on MWD or armour repair.
Tragar	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:25:00 - [89] Edited by: Tragar on 13/08/2004 12:27:00 double post...
Tragar	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:25:00 - [90] Edited by: Tragar on 13/08/2004 12:27:00 double post...

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