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Shocky	Posted - 2004.08.18 13:45:00 - [121] Originally by: Siddy as long as projektile ammo Do less damage whit grater range and more damage whit shortter range - minmatar pilots will be betwean 2 fire's: you cant hit at close range and do crappeh damage on long projektiles can never be Long range kings if this continues -.- Question, What language are you speaking?
Shocky	Posted - 2004.08.18 13:45:00 - [122] Originally by: Siddy as long as projektile ammo Do less damage whit grater range and more damage whit shortter range - minmatar pilots will be betwean 2 fire's: you cant hit at close range and do crappeh damage on long projektiles can never be Long range kings if this continues -.- Question, What language are you speaking?
Nomispanco	Posted - 2004.08.18 14:16:00 - [123] Edited by: Nomispanco on 18/08/2004 14:26:34 Originally by: Valentine Keen Also, our corporate sales of bpcs for Tempests have plummetted to almost nothing, with only die-hard Minmatar fans buying them. Until now, our sales were fairly balanced, now we can't shift Tempests at all. I can help you. I'll buy 50 bpc of the Tempest, for lets say 1million each
Nomispanco	Posted - 2004.08.18 14:16:00 - [124] Edited by: Nomispanco on 18/08/2004 14:26:34 Originally by: Valentine Keen Also, our corporate sales of bpcs for Tempests have plummetted to almost nothing, with only die-hard Minmatar fans buying them. Until now, our sales were fairly balanced, now we can't shift Tempests at all. I can help you. I'll buy 50 bpc of the Tempest, for lets say 1million each
Wulfgard	Posted - 2004.08.18 15:57:00 - [125] Soon or later, the Devs will hear our prayers, but... you sure you want Minmatars being long range kings? It will be great for fleet battle (camping scenario) but for the rest it will be a serious handicap. -Accidental encounter: You will be at 30-40km at best, and I bet we gonna suck at that range, resultowned -No Gankage possible in 1 vs 1, or make webbers & warp scram 150km range just for mins BS lol (jking!), resultno kill I wish somehow Tempest could be balanced as med-long range ship, like Apoc for example.
Wulfgard	Posted - 2004.08.18 15:57:00 - [126] Soon or later, the Devs will hear our prayers, but... you sure you want Minmatars being long range kings? It will be great for fleet battle (camping scenario) but for the rest it will be a serious handicap. -Accidental encounter: You will be at 30-40km at best, and I bet we gonna suck at that range, resultowned -No Gankage possible in 1 vs 1, or make webbers & warp scram 150km range just for mins BS lol (jking!), resultno kill I wish somehow Tempest could be balanced as med-long range ship, like Apoc for example.
Tar om	Posted - 2004.08.18 16:20:00 - [127] @ shocky, Siddy speaks fluent Griffo -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Tar om	Posted - 2004.08.18 16:20:00 - [128] @ shocky, Siddy speaks fluent Griffo -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
wayz	Posted - 2004.08.18 18:34:00 - [129] Originally by: Siddy As a response to gilion "Tempest nerf" posts, i spent many many nights awake thinkking the possible "point" to projektiles Problems on tempest ocurred as soon as the "Sig radius VS Trakking" Realism came. As for the Realism being flaver of the nexst 3 - 4 months, i bengan to think: Something elementtary has been owerlooked! And as i continued meditating on the issue, i took freedom to compare EVE projektiles to Real Life projektiles! And gues what i found out! The whole philosophy over projektiles in EVE is flaved. Why? The EVE favors close range weponary - on the contruary this dont fit Projektiles (espesialy Howizers) Grantted, that if you shoot a tank (standing still) at 300m whit Ferdinant, you will Own it - But if the tank is moving, the Ferdinant wont hit a thing - it was designed to operate at 1 - 3Km ranges So whats wrong whit current Howizers then? They also dont work wery well on short ranges and even worse whit fast targets(small or big) The idea of howizers is Half done.. CCP did only the part were Howizers dont hit a thing! They frogot to add the hitting part and aftermat of it How so? Imagine 1,4M diameter ammo filled whit god knows what, Ramming a ship! 140cm is as tall as avarange 10 year old kid! Imagine that, that thing is propelled by a small nuke ( minmatars dont use gunpowder anymore ) and after that doing still worst DoT n game... so... what yu sugjest? Solutionis simpple! CCP has done one part of two right and its p00r trakking ( alowwing it use only a long range) But it has ignored the damage output And what you sugjest to fix this problem? Maybe reworkking the projektile guns? Or adding more Bonuses to ships that uses em? Exstra slots maybe? No! My sugjestion whuld be Reworkking current Projektile Munition philosophy! Currently it works like a shotgun shell's - favoring close range combat Sounds intresting but How? Making Long range Ammo truly "Long range ammo"! Right now only use of so caled "long range ammo" is that it altters your optimal range in exchange of crappier damage - this is flaved As laser Beam desipate in square of the distance it travels, and Hybrid ammo's looses it mas due magnetickly contained plasma leeking, Projektile shells dont have similar prblems! ( or atleast shuld not ) The problem of projektiles are the size - bigger is the size - longger is the range and damage (in real life)... but its also makes harder to operate the gun! So how shuld this "ammo rework" work in practical use? This "Ammo rework" Can be achived whit wery little effort from devs by simply alttering ammo Bonuses!!! insted of making Short range ammo to be poverful in damage compartment ans short in range... Make Long range ammo to be powerful in damage and to Balance and compensate this Ubernes add diferent Penaltys to ammo and bonuses to ammo ------- Layout on paper -------- EMP Ammo: (+40% to the current damage)* +60% to optimal range -50% to Trakking -20% to RoF *(adding more base damage to ammo ... not showwed on modifiers in ammo stats) and 4 seconds activation delay penalty to wepon when using this ammo (due to time taken when re-direkting guns) <...
wayz	Posted - 2004.08.18 18:34:00 - [130] Originally by: Siddy As a response to gilion "Tempest nerf" posts, i spent many many nights awake thinkking the possible "point" to projektiles Problems on tempest ocurred as soon as the "Sig radius VS Trakking" Realism came. As for the Realism being flaver of the nexst 3 - 4 months, i bengan to think: Something elementtary has been owerlooked! And as i continued meditating on the issue, i took freedom to compare EVE projektiles to Real Life projektiles! And gues what i found out! The whole philosophy over projektiles in EVE is flaved. Why? The EVE favors close range weponary - on the contruary this dont fit Projektiles (espesialy Howizers) Grantted, that if you shoot a tank (standing still) at 300m whit Ferdinant, you will Own it - But if the tank is moving, the Ferdinant wont hit a thing - it was designed to operate at 1 - 3Km ranges So whats wrong whit current Howizers then? They also dont work wery well on short ranges and even worse whit fast targets(small or big) The idea of howizers is Half done.. CCP did only the part were Howizers dont hit a thing! They frogot to add the hitting part and aftermat of it How so? Imagine 1,4M diameter ammo filled whit god knows what, Ramming a ship! 140cm is as tall as avarange 10 year old kid! Imagine that, that thing is propelled by a small nuke ( minmatars dont use gunpowder anymore ) and after that doing still worst DoT n game... so... what yu sugjest? Solutionis simpple! CCP has done one part of two right and its p00r trakking ( alowwing it use only a long range) But it has ignored the damage output And what you sugjest to fix this problem? Maybe reworkking the projektile guns? Or adding more Bonuses to ships that uses em? Exstra slots maybe? No! My sugjestion whuld be Reworkking current Projektile Munition philosophy! Currently it works like a shotgun shell's - favoring close range combat Sounds intresting but How? Making Long range Ammo truly "Long range ammo"! Right now only use of so caled "long range ammo" is that it altters your optimal range in exchange of crappier damage - this is flaved As laser Beam desipate in square of the distance it travels, and Hybrid ammo's looses it mas due magnetickly contained plasma leeking, Projektile shells dont have similar prblems! ( or atleast shuld not ) The problem of projektiles are the size - bigger is the size - longger is the range and damage (in real life)... but its also makes harder to operate the gun! So how shuld this "ammo rework" work in practical use? This "Ammo rework" Can be achived whit wery little effort from devs by simply alttering ammo Bonuses!!! insted of making Short range ammo to be poverful in damage compartment ans short in range... Make Long range ammo to be powerful in damage and to Balance and compensate this Ubernes add diferent Penaltys to ammo and bonuses to ammo ------- Layout on paper -------- EMP Ammo: (+40% to the current damage)* +60% to optimal range -50% to Trakking -20% to RoF *(adding more base damage to ammo ... not showwed on modifiers in ammo stats) and 4 seconds activation delay penalty to wepon when using this ammo (due to time taken when re-direkting guns) <...
Siddy	Posted - 2004.08.18 18:35:00 - [131] Originally by: Wulfgard Soon or later, the Devs will hear our prayers, but... you sure you want Minmatars being long range kings? It will be great for fleet battle (camping scenario) but for the rest it will be a serious handicap. -Accidental encounter: You will be at 30-40km at best, and I bet we gonna suck at that range, resultowned -No Gankage possible in 1 vs 1, or make webbers & warp scram 150km range just for mins BS lol (jking!), resultno kill I wish somehow Tempest could be balanced as med-long range ship, like Apoc for example. if you read my idea - and understand it (sorry for crap spelling) you whuld notice that the long and close range problems is rather solved - tempest will not be gimpped at short range - but it will still be more efektive at long range same as megatron isisnt gimpped at long range right now ( whit 425mm rail) but are more useful whit blasters -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.08.18 18:35:00 - [132] Originally by: Wulfgard Soon or later, the Devs will hear our prayers, but... you sure you want Minmatars being long range kings? It will be great for fleet battle (camping scenario) but for the rest it will be a serious handicap. -Accidental encounter: You will be at 30-40km at best, and I bet we gonna suck at that range, resultowned -No Gankage possible in 1 vs 1, or make webbers & warp scram 150km range just for mins BS lol (jking!), resultno kill I wish somehow Tempest could be balanced as med-long range ship, like Apoc for example. if you read my idea - and understand it (sorry for crap spelling) you whuld notice that the long and close range problems is rather solved - tempest will not be gimpped at short range - but it will still be more efektive at long range same as megatron isisnt gimpped at long range right now ( whit 425mm rail) but are more useful whit blasters -------------------------------------------
wayz	Posted - 2004.08.18 18:40:00 - [133] A: no I Was thinking more along the lines of a spotter system in which ships are connected through a co-ordinated targeting mod (the tempest being right at the back of the line) so in order to get a decent range bonus you need alot of ships in a line liked to each other at maximum range Q: and so the tempest would lay down mega damage thats stupid A: not really because in order to prepare something like thsat your looking at a very vulnrable squad of ships taht could be ganked pretty easily if they dont think fast. I was also tinking of maybe making damage bonuses per 100km fired so teh further the tempest artillery platform is teh more damage laid down. this would make for a great station seige tactic that could really change to face of combat and add a whole new set of tactics Q: yeah but then if you get a load of temps in a line the firepower would bring any fleet down A: not really if you take into account the lousy tracking and range bonuses (the front ones wouldnt be hardly effective) Wayz: cmon X hurry up I aint got all day! Twisted Xistance: oh yeah lol.... anyway, you have got all day you benefit scrounging jobbless schmoe! Wayz: too chey :)
wayz	Posted - 2004.08.18 18:40:00 - [134] A: no I Was thinking more along the lines of a spotter system in which ships are connected through a co-ordinated targeting mod (the tempest being right at the back of the line) so in order to get a decent range bonus you need alot of ships in a line liked to each other at maximum range Q: and so the tempest would lay down mega damage thats stupid A: not really because in order to prepare something like thsat your looking at a very vulnrable squad of ships taht could be ganked pretty easily if they dont think fast. I was also tinking of maybe making damage bonuses per 100km fired so teh further the tempest artillery platform is teh more damage laid down. this would make for a great station seige tactic that could really change to face of combat and add a whole new set of tactics Q: yeah but then if you get a load of temps in a line the firepower would bring any fleet down A: not really if you take into account the lousy tracking and range bonuses (the front ones wouldnt be hardly effective) Wayz: cmon X hurry up I aint got all day! Twisted Xistance: oh yeah lol.... anyway, you have got all day you benefit scrounging jobbless schmoe! Wayz: too chey :)
wayz	Posted - 2004.08.18 18:41:00 - [135] Originally by: Siddy Originally by: Wulfgard Soon or later, the Devs will hear our prayers, but... you sure you want Minmatars being long range kings? It will be great for fleet battle (camping scenario) but for the rest it will be a serious handicap. -Accidental encounter: You will be at 30-40km at best, and I bet we gonna suck at that range, resultowned -No Gankage possible in 1 vs 1, or make webbers & warp scram 150km range just for mins BS lol (jking!), resultno kill I wish somehow Tempest could be balanced as med-long range ship, like Apoc for example. if you read my idea - and understand it (sorry for crap spelling) you whuld notice that the long and close range problems is rather solved - tempest will not be gimpped at short range - but it will still be more efektive at long range same as megatron isisnt gimpped at long range right now ( whit 425mm rail) but are more useful whit blasters siddy you SWINE you just had to post inbetween teh double post didnt you LOL Wayz: cmon X hurry up I aint got all day! Twisted Xistance: oh yeah lol.... anyway, you have got all day you benefit scrounging jobbless schmoe! Wayz: too chey :)
wayz	Posted - 2004.08.18 18:41:00 - [136] Originally by: Siddy Originally by: Wulfgard Soon or later, the Devs will hear our prayers, but... you sure you want Minmatars being long range kings? It will be great for fleet battle (camping scenario) but for the rest it will be a serious handicap. -Accidental encounter: You will be at 30-40km at best, and I bet we gonna suck at that range, resultowned -No Gankage possible in 1 vs 1, or make webbers & warp scram 150km range just for mins BS lol (jking!), resultno kill I wish somehow Tempest could be balanced as med-long range ship, like Apoc for example. if you read my idea - and understand it (sorry for crap spelling) you whuld notice that the long and close range problems is rather solved - tempest will not be gimpped at short range - but it will still be more efektive at long range same as megatron isisnt gimpped at long range right now ( whit 425mm rail) but are more useful whit blasters siddy you SWINE you just had to post inbetween teh double post didnt you LOL Wayz: cmon X hurry up I aint got all day! Twisted Xistance: oh yeah lol.... anyway, you have got all day you benefit scrounging jobbless schmoe! Wayz: too chey :)
Siddy	Posted - 2004.08.18 18:44:00 - [137] Originally by: wayz I cant even begin to describe ho wbad an idea this is. what your proposing would kill the tempest completely because of frigs and interceptors. If the tempestwas to be this long range ship that is completely ineffective at close ranbge then all it takes is a frig to get to you then you have a guy warp in on top of you and your wtfpwn3d. I however have a leet idea, thinking semi along the same lines. The tempest gets turned into a uber artillery platform right (now I'm talking acn shoot from another grid) Q: so you want to make the tempest have infinate targeting range LOLOLOLLOLOLOL wtf unplug your keyboard - please? if uoy did read my post and understud it - you whuld noticed that i described long and short range ammo bonuses and penaltys Long range ammo = Exstra damage, Esxtra optimal(it is long range) But worser Trakking( to prevent using in close range AC's) Short range = Exstra RoF ( balansed whit DoT ofcorse) Exstra Trakking (so even 1400mms whuld work at 20km - whit reduced damage ofcorse) and smaller size - but shortter optimal so in general Short range ammos can be use Efektively at short range - for moderate damage and Long range ammos can be used At Longrange for True optimal damage of projektiles! (not _ber - but big enought) its not like we are using Howizers in close range combat in RL are we ? -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.08.18 18:44:00 - [138] Originally by: wayz I cant even begin to describe ho wbad an idea this is. what your proposing would kill the tempest completely because of frigs and interceptors. If the tempestwas to be this long range ship that is completely ineffective at close ranbge then all it takes is a frig to get to you then you have a guy warp in on top of you and your wtfpwn3d. I however have a leet idea, thinking semi along the same lines. The tempest gets turned into a uber artillery platform right (now I'm talking acn shoot from another grid) Q: so you want to make the tempest have infinate targeting range LOLOLOLLOLOLOL wtf unplug your keyboard - please? if uoy did read my post and understud it - you whuld noticed that i described long and short range ammo bonuses and penaltys Long range ammo = Exstra damage, Esxtra optimal(it is long range) But worser Trakking( to prevent using in close range AC's) Short range = Exstra RoF ( balansed whit DoT ofcorse) Exstra Trakking (so even 1400mms whuld work at 20km - whit reduced damage ofcorse) and smaller size - but shortter optimal so in general Short range ammos can be use Efektively at short range - for moderate damage and Long range ammos can be used At Longrange for True optimal damage of projektiles! (not _ber - but big enought) its not like we are using Howizers in close range combat in RL are we ? -------------------------------------------
Zarkona	Posted - 2004.08.23 12:28:00 - [139] Hi, reading the proj thread. Got a Minmatar char with max bs and guns skills. Thx to CCP, i can shoot roids now. The rest may be too hard to hit and when i hit it is f.....joke. Ok, i overdid this but it is really screwed now. Again, the bigs guns or lasers, i don't care, they should do big DAMAGE from far. And CCP, ever saw a 155mm shell hit in real life? This is suppossedly 1200mm or 1400mm, don't make me laugh. If a 155mm shell hits a jeep (example frigate in eve) it's gone, all shields u want, all mwd u have, it's outta here. Nerf some more instead of thinking. An angry Brutor.
Zarkona	Posted - 2004.08.23 12:28:00 - [140] Hi, reading the proj thread. Got a Minmatar char with max bs and guns skills. Thx to CCP, i can shoot roids now. The rest may be too hard to hit and when i hit it is f.....joke. Ok, i overdid this but it is really screwed now. Again, the bigs guns or lasers, i don't care, they should do big DAMAGE from far. And CCP, ever saw a 155mm shell hit in real life? This is suppossedly 1200mm or 1400mm, don't make me laugh. If a 155mm shell hits a jeep (example frigate in eve) it's gone, all shields u want, all mwd u have, it's outta here. Nerf some more instead of thinking. An angry Brutor.
Siddy	Posted - 2004.08.23 13:40:00 - [141] Linkage this is the graphs of what kind of characteristik projektile ammo shuld have -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.08.23 13:40:00 - [142] Linkage this is the graphs of what kind of characteristik projektile ammo shuld have -------------------------------------------
Selim	Posted - 2004.08.23 13:46:00 - [143] I completely agree with you Siddy. The Long range ammo should be the ammo doing the huge damage, b ut poor tracking, so its bad for use in autocannons but good for howitzers. And the short range ammo should do moderate damage but have good tracking, for use in autocannons.
Selim	Posted - 2004.08.23 13:46:00 - [144] I completely agree with you Siddy. The Long range ammo should be the ammo doing the huge damage, b ut poor tracking, so its bad for use in autocannons but good for howitzers. And the short range ammo should do moderate damage but have good tracking, for use in autocannons.
GrandReaper	Posted - 2004.08.23 14:43:00 - [145] I have read a lot of post and I havenÆt seen ant dev people answer any of the questions. Why the lack of interest? I mean, if the dev team donÆt want any one to use minmatar ships then let us have the opportunity to change the skill p when have in projectiles and minmatar ships. I did know when I started training projectiles and Minmatar ship that I needed a lot of skill p to be that hard-hitting killing machine and did not mind that my friend got for the mega and hybrids and did a lot more damage than me. I knew that I would get my reward at the end. But when I got my bs, large projectiles, and so on to lv 4 then whe had the uber patch and nerft the projectiles to les than null. Why dev? Let me and the other change our skill p to something ells. Pleas CCP, speak with us.
GrandReaper	Posted - 2004.08.23 14:43:00 - [146] I have read a lot of post and I havenÆt seen ant dev people answer any of the questions. Why the lack of interest? I mean, if the dev team donÆt want any one to use minmatar ships then let us have the opportunity to change the skill p when have in projectiles and minmatar ships. I did know when I started training projectiles and Minmatar ship that I needed a lot of skill p to be that hard-hitting killing machine and did not mind that my friend got for the mega and hybrids and did a lot more damage than me. I knew that I would get my reward at the end. But when I got my bs, large projectiles, and so on to lv 4 then whe had the uber patch and nerft the projectiles to les than null. Why dev? Let me and the other change our skill p to something ells. Pleas CCP, speak with us.
Artegg	Posted - 2004.08.23 15:08:00 - [147] Originally by: Ordo Abchao Originally by: Juanita Loup ordo they just take you out of the frezzer? i tested my guns against a dom, and i got about 60-100 with my 1400mm's we wernt moving so no tracking should be needed. now you could say this is ok damage for average skills untill you take into acout tat after 10 shots i have to wait for the stupid things to reload, but this time im surrounded by drones and down to my amour. so i did the sensible thing to do in a tempest.... I ran away [ 2004.08.17 05:33:33 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I places an excellent hit on Lafiele [RG], inflicting 381.8 damage. [ 2004.08.17 04:05:48 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I barely scratches Mori'Dae [SOINC], causing 115.7 damage. [ 2004.08.17 04:06:55 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I places an excellent hit on Guardian Executor, inflicting 416.0 damage. [ 2004.08.17 04:18:32 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I places an excellent hit on Vuta [T.C.M], inflicting 347.5 damage. [ 2004.08.17 01:00:16 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I lightly hits ihavecramps, doing 237.6 damage. [ 2004.08.16 18:09:19 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I lightly hits Will Hunter [SCAPE], doing 211.7 damage. [ 2004.08.16 18:10:20 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I places an excellent hit on Will Hunter [SCAPE], inflicting 513.0 damage. HI! Seriosuly are you taking the **** here those shots are taken over a 24 time period. To get those shots how many rounds did you fire?
Artegg	Posted - 2004.08.23 15:08:00 - [148] Originally by: Ordo Abchao Originally by: Juanita Loup ordo they just take you out of the frezzer? i tested my guns against a dom, and i got about 60-100 with my 1400mm's we wernt moving so no tracking should be needed. now you could say this is ok damage for average skills untill you take into acout tat after 10 shots i have to wait for the stupid things to reload, but this time im surrounded by drones and down to my amour. so i did the sensible thing to do in a tempest.... I ran away [ 2004.08.17 05:33:33 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I places an excellent hit on Lafiele [RG], inflicting 381.8 damage. [ 2004.08.17 04:05:48 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I barely scratches Mori'Dae [SOINC], causing 115.7 damage. [ 2004.08.17 04:06:55 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I places an excellent hit on Guardian Executor, inflicting 416.0 damage. [ 2004.08.17 04:18:32 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I places an excellent hit on Vuta [T.C.M], inflicting 347.5 damage. [ 2004.08.17 01:00:16 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I lightly hits ihavecramps, doing 237.6 damage. [ 2004.08.16 18:09:19 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I lightly hits Will Hunter [SCAPE], doing 211.7 damage. [ 2004.08.16 18:10:20 ] (combat) Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I places an excellent hit on Will Hunter [SCAPE], inflicting 513.0 damage. HI! Seriosuly are you taking the **** here those shots are taken over a 24 time period. To get those shots how many rounds did you fire?
Xtra Bitter	Posted - 2004.08.23 15:33:00 - [149] Got to think that something has to be changed with the Guns i mean comeon with the 800, 650 nd 425 large cannons. You cant hit a ship moving faster than 144m/s at the optimal range stick some phased plasma or emp ammo in and wow you halve it to 72m/s. So the only place your going to hit anything with these guns is somewhere above the optimal range. Question is if you hit better and more often above the optimal range how can it be the optimal range. It makes no sense whatsoever. It like saying i want a gun to hit well at say 6km and making sure the one place it cant do it is at the optimal range of 6km. The changes to fall off just compounded this and made it even worse. The only place the guns hit effectively you have reduced damage from being in the falloff zone. My 2 tempests have been placed in storage as would my phoon be except for the extra large drone bay and range bonuses. Off to get a Amar BS built.
Xtra Bitter	Posted - 2004.08.23 15:33:00 - [150] Got to think that something has to be changed with the Guns i mean comeon with the 800, 650 nd 425 large cannons. You cant hit a ship moving faster than 144m/s at the optimal range stick some phased plasma or emp ammo in and wow you halve it to 72m/s. So the only place your going to hit anything with these guns is somewhere above the optimal range. Question is if you hit better and more often above the optimal range how can it be the optimal range. It makes no sense whatsoever. It like saying i want a gun to hit well at say 6km and making sure the one place it cant do it is at the optimal range of 6km. The changes to fall off just compounded this and made it even worse. The only place the guns hit effectively you have reduced damage from being in the falloff zone. My 2 tempests have been placed in storage as would my phoon be except for the extra large drone bay and range bonuses. Off to get a Amar BS built.

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