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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:51:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Siddy on 29/11/2004 15:37:20
As a response to gilion "Tempest nerf" posts, i spent many many nights awake thinkking the possible "point" to projektiles (not realy )
Problems on tempest ocurred as soon as the "Sig radius VS Trakking" Realism came.
As for the Realism being flaver of the nexst 3 - 4 months, i bengan to think: Something elementtary has been owerlooked!
And as i continued meditating on the issue, i took freedom to compare EVE projektiles to Real Life projektiles!
 Make Long range ammo to be powerful in damage at long range
 and to Balance and compensate this Ubernes
add diferent Penaltys to ammo and bonuses to ammo
------- Layout on paper --------
EMP Ammo:
+60% to optimal range
-Add range fuse that prevents ammo doing damage under X range (example 30km - 40km?)
-Activation delay
 and 4 seconds activation delay penalty to wepon when using this ammo to prevent long range insta frigate gankk fest at 0.4
and Short range layout
Carbonised Led :
(keap the same danage)
-50% to optimal range
+60% to trakking
+30% to RoF
all the ammunitions in betwean are mirrored as thees 2 examples to represent theyr new plases in order (and im to layzy to write em)
The numbers are not perfekt and needs tweaking but you get the picture
This way you can use 1400mms at 20km by sacrifyising damage to get beter RoF and trakking ( and hitting things ... FINALY)
or using it as a hard hitter from 60km +.
also thi will work in autocannons as a freedom to choise. shooting from 20km ( 800mms) or getting in close and personal and actualy hitting something - ofcorse, The biggest ammo wont work wery well in 800mms, but medium and small sized ammo will work well enought
and will not Gimp Blasters as a Best close range wepons in game (after Uber megapulses )
clikeh
my 0.2 isk
udated for more modern ideas
-------------------------------------------
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Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.07.26 16:51:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Siddy on 29/11/2004 15:37:20
As a response to gilion "Tempest nerf" posts, i spent many many nights awake thinkking the possible "point" to projektiles (not realy)
Problems on tempest ocurred as soon as the "Sig radius VS Trakking" Realism came.
As for the Realism being flaver of the nexst 3 - 4 months, i bengan to think: Something elementtary has been owerlooked!
And as i continued meditating on the issue, i took freedom to compare EVE projektiles to Real Life projektiles!
Make Long range ammo to be powerful in damage at long range
and to Balance and compensate this Ubernes
add diferent Penaltys to ammo and bonuses to ammo
------- Layout on paper --------
EMP Ammo:
+60% to optimal range
-Add range fuse that prevents ammo doing damage under X range (example 30km - 40km?)
-Activation delay
and 4 seconds activation delay penalty to wepon when using this ammo to prevent long range insta frigate gankk fest at 0.4
and Short range layout
Carbonised Led :
(keap the same danage)
-50% to optimal range
+60% to trakking
+30% to RoF
all the ammunitions in betwean are mirrored as thees 2 examples to represent theyr new plases in order (and im to layzy to write em)
The numbers are not perfekt and needs tweaking but you get the picture
This way you can use 1400mms at 20km by sacrifyising damage to get beter RoF and trakking ( and hitting things ... FINALY)
or using it as a hard hitter from 60km +.
also thi will work in autocannons as a freedom to choise. shooting from 20km ( 800mms) or getting in close and personal and actualy hitting something - ofcorse, The biggest ammo wont work wery well in 800mms, but medium and small sized ammo will work well enought
and will not Gimp Blasters as a Best close range wepons in game (after Uber megapulses )
clikeh
my 0.2 isk
udated for more modern ideas
-------------------------------------------
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.07.26 18:05:00 -
[3]
Heh,
 Quote:
Siddy, Going "Jim Raynor" on TomB since last Tempest nerf ....
You would figure at ranges of let's say 5km, you would have an option for "grapeshot round", which would blanket a given area of space with sub-munitions.
The benefits of projectiles are, like most people including TomB would say, their varied damage types. Ok, fine...you can vary damage and they dont take much cap. Given.
How about allowing projectile users the FULL benefit of the projectile class of weapons. We already have titanium sabot ammo, which is good against armor, because it has a discarding sabot in it...supposedly..
How about implementing:
1) Shotgun shells, for short range fire out of large guns
2) Semi-guided munitions.
3) Target designator rounds (fire a shell, and a targeting device sticks to target when hit).
4) Starburst shells (boy these would look neat)
The problem with projectiles is that they have not been fully implemented. Hell you could say those things about missiles too....some of the above "neato" type things would also work well with missiles (like the target designator rounds).
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.07.26 18:05:00 -
[4]
Heh,
Quote:
Siddy, Going "Jim Raynor" on TomB since last Tempest nerf ....
You would figure at ranges of let's say 5km, you would have an option for "grapeshot round", which would blanket a given area of space with sub-munitions.
The benefits of projectiles are, like most people including TomB would say, their varied damage types. Ok, fine...you can vary damage and they dont take much cap. Given.
How about allowing projectile users the FULL benefit of the projectile class of weapons. We already have titanium sabot ammo, which is good against armor, because it has a discarding sabot in it...supposedly..
How about implementing:
1) Shotgun shells, for short range fire out of large guns
2) Semi-guided munitions.
3) Target designator rounds (fire a shell, and a targeting device sticks to target when hit).
4) Starburst shells (boy these would look neat)
The problem with projectiles is that they have not been fully implemented. Hell you could say those things about missiles too....some of the above "neato" type things would also work well with missiles (like the target designator rounds).
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mOULf
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Posted - 2004.07.26 19:33:00 -
[5]
I agree with Siddy. Now, Large Projectile guns are useless at close range (<35 km). We can't even hit a cruiser at 30 km with the fine ammo (EMP or phased Plasma)
how can you explain that you can't hit at your optimal range??
I think there IS a problem with tracking and ammo types.
please CCP take a look at it. An Elephant in a cupboard can't be missed!
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mOULf
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Posted - 2004.07.26 19:33:00 -
[6]
I agree with Siddy. Now, Large Projectile guns are useless at close range (<35 km). We can't even hit a cruiser at 30 km with the fine ammo (EMP or phased Plasma)
how can you explain that you can't hit at your optimal range??
I think there IS a problem with tracking and ammo types.
please CCP take a look at it. An Elephant in a cupboard can't be missed!
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Dispader
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Posted - 2004.07.26 20:09:00 -
[7]
Ok, as a long time Tempest user, I have taken a big hit to my ship effectiveness post patch. This has slightly less to do with the guns (although projectiles ARE joke) but even more with setup options (low CPU, and armor repairers taking 2k grid etc etc. we all know why it is all beyond pathetic).
Here's a point I'd like to add regarding "varying damage types" bull-****:
WHO CARES?????????????????????
Everyone hardens to the point of 40-50% resistence on anything so it really matters SQUAT what damage I deal. OK, so some have 50% em resistence and 60% kinetic 45% thermal and 55% explosive....the other guy is doing some other tank on some other ship: 70% em resistence and 55% kinetic 65% thermal and 60% explosive...mhmmm
In the end it DOES NOT matter what damage you deal, you will on average face a 50-ish resistence to it.
So end this varying damage types crap, it aint worth much.
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Dispader
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Posted - 2004.07.26 20:09:00 -
[8]
Ok, as a long time Tempest user, I have taken a big hit to my ship effectiveness post patch. This has slightly less to do with the guns (although projectiles ARE joke) but even more with setup options (low CPU, and armor repairers taking 2k grid etc etc. we all know why it is all beyond pathetic).
Here's a point I'd like to add regarding "varying damage types" bull-****:
WHO CARES?????????????????????
Everyone hardens to the point of 40-50% resistence on anything so it really matters SQUAT what damage I deal. OK, so some have 50% em resistence and 60% kinetic 45% thermal and 55% explosive....the other guy is doing some other tank on some other ship: 70% em resistence and 55% kinetic 65% thermal and 60% explosive...mhmmm
In the end it DOES NOT matter what damage you deal, you will on average face a 50-ish resistence to it.
So end this varying damage types crap, it aint worth much.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2004.07.26 20:19:00 -
[9]
Well, i skimmed through your post siddy but i will say this.
Projectiles should be the long range kings of eve, anything else is stupid.
YAAAAR!
(i dont fly minmatar bs)
________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2004.07.26 20:19:00 -
[10]
Well, i skimmed through your post siddy but i will say this.
Projectiles should be the long range kings of eve, anything else is stupid.
YAAAAR!
(i dont fly minmatar bs)
________________________________________________________
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2004.07.26 21:56:00 -
[11]
Well first off, i consider short range to be sub 10km or lower, anything else and u get bigger falloff's so its long range.
short rng weps on a temp or typh are pretty damn good.
Also this is kind of a whine, sorry but it is, proj not working? make them work. This game is all about gettin ur head round setup problems, u just need to think about it more.
U seem to be well travelled siddy so u shouldnt have gr8 probs with skills, so just get out and experiment if u wanna use em, or use a different kind of weps, cos dont hold ur breath for ccp to fix em cos they arnt gonna :/
gl 
__
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2004.07.26 21:56:00 -
[12]
Well first off, i consider short range to be sub 10km or lower, anything else and u get bigger falloff's so its long range.
short rng weps on a temp or typh are pretty damn good.
Also this is kind of a whine, sorry but it is, proj not working? make them work. This game is all about gettin ur head round setup problems, u just need to think about it more.
U seem to be well travelled siddy so u shouldnt have gr8 probs with skills, so just get out and experiment if u wanna use em, or use a different kind of weps, cos dont hold ur breath for ccp to fix em cos they arnt gonna :/
gl
__
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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Gart kaliso
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Posted - 2004.07.26 22:50:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Gart kaliso on 26/07/2004 22:51:44
sounds like someone who isnt stuck driving the most usless pile of 100 million isk scrap in the eve universe.....
try with projs in low sec, atm everyone a)laughes loudly in local then b) turns and attacks you because they all know you cant damage them and cant tank well enough....unless you have 12 mil worth of skill
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Gart kaliso
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Posted - 2004.07.26 22:50:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Gart kaliso on 26/07/2004 22:51:44
sounds like someone who isnt stuck driving the most usless pile of 100 million isk scrap in the eve universe.....
try with projs in low sec, atm everyone a)laughes loudly in local then b) turns and attacks you because they all know you cant damage them and cant tank well enough....unless you have 12 mil worth of skill
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Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 15:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Meridius
Well, i skimmed through your post siddy but i will say this.
Projectiles should be the long range kings of eve, anything else is stupid.
YAAAAR!
(i dont fly minmatar bs)
my point in the post was exaktly the "Long range King" thinggy
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.11 15:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Meridius
Well, i skimmed through your post siddy but i will say this.
Projectiles should be the long range kings of eve, anything else is stupid.
YAAAAR!
(i dont fly minmatar bs)
my point in the post was exaktly the "Long range King" thinggy
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:00:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Shade Widow on 11/08/2004 16:03:43
Howitzer is actually an item in real life you know. Its a cannon type they used in the revolutionary war a lot. It was designed for long distances. Howitzers are powerfull long distance weapons. If you want to go upclose use autocannons. If you dont like autocannons then tough luck.
The Howitzer can be used at long ranges with decent damage being done by the ammo. Many people can get good shots with the tempest. If you choose to use lead ammo you should expect the damage to go down. Im not sure of the howitzers actuall range but im sure its around 40km Thats no kiddie distance. thats without plus skills or ammo with better range.
---
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:00:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Shade Widow on 11/08/2004 16:03:43
Howitzer is actually an item in real life you know. Its a cannon type they used in the revolutionary war a lot. It was designed for long distances. Howitzers are powerfull long distance weapons. If you want to go upclose use autocannons. If you dont like autocannons then tough luck.
The Howitzer can be used at long ranges with decent damage being done by the ammo. Many people can get good shots with the tempest. If you choose to use lead ammo you should expect the damage to go down. Im not sure of the howitzers actuall range but im sure its around 40km Thats no kiddie distance. thats without plus skills or ammo with better range.
---
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Shade Widow
Howitzer is actually an item in real life you know. Its a cannon type they used in the revolutionary war a lot. It was designed for long distances. Howitzers are powerfull long distance weapons. If you want to go upclose use autocannons. If you dont like autocannons then tough luck.
how big part of my post you actualy readet 
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:03:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shade Widow
Howitzer is actually an item in real life you know. Its a cannon type they used in the revolutionary war a lot. It was designed for long distances. Howitzers are powerfull long distance weapons. If you want to go upclose use autocannons. If you dont like autocannons then tough luck.
how big part of my post you actualy readet
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:04:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Shade Widow on 11/08/2004 16:05:24
Apparently not all of it
PS: you wrote to much to read all of it
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:04:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Shade Widow on 11/08/2004 16:05:24
Apparently not all of it
PS: you wrote to much to read all of it
---
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shade Widow
Edited by: Shade Widow on 11/08/2004 16:05:24
Apparently not all of it
PS: you wrote to much to read all of it
in nut shell of all my texst: reverse long range ammo and short range ammo's damage
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:12:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Shade Widow
Edited by: Shade Widow on 11/08/2004 16:05:24
Apparently not all of it
PS: you wrote to much to read all of it
in nut shell of all my texst: reverse long range ammo and short range ammo's damage
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:13:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Shade Widow on 11/08/2004 16:14:58
Er do you mean for minmatar or every race?
Right now the short range autocannons do less than an howitzer.....
So you want the howitzer to have a 1.5 bonus and the short range to have the 5.0?
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:13:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Shade Widow on 11/08/2004 16:14:58
Er do you mean for minmatar or every race?
Right now the short range autocannons do less than an howitzer.....
So you want the howitzer to have a 1.5 bonus and the short range to have the 5.0?
---
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Shade Widow
Edited by: Shade Widow on 11/08/2004 16:14:58
Er do you mean for minmatar or every race?
Right now the short range autocannons do less than an howitzer.....
So you want the howitzer to have a 1.5 bonus and the short range to have the 5.0?
read the freking texst >.<
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shade Widow
Edited by: Shade Widow on 11/08/2004 16:14:58
Er do you mean for minmatar or every race?
Right now the short range autocannons do less than an howitzer.....
So you want the howitzer to have a 1.5 bonus and the short range to have the 5.0?
read the freking texst >.<
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:16:00 -
[29]
oh fer crissakes... ever used 1200's? ...don't think so...
-------------------
Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:16:00 -
[30]
oh fer crissakes... ever used 1200's? ...don't think so...
-------------------
Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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