OK I'm confused, I don't mine myself but reading through the forums there seems to be a hell of a lot of unwarranted hatred towards miners and industrialists. (Note: this is not an anti-Hulkageddon thread, I think Hulkageddon is hilarious as I just stand on the sidelines and watch with popcorn at the ready)
I can understand the hate for botters and I applaud any and all attempts to rid them from New Eden. And I can also understand why people don't like the guys who have a bazillion mining alts, but the hate for the average guy in his Hulk who just mines his minerals while chatting to his corp mates so he can build a ship or two seems totally unreasonable to me.

Now as I said I don't mine myself so this is not tears or whining, I am just puzzled as to why people seem to loathe miners so much as to want to drive them from the game. Miners are a key part of the EvE economy (like it or not) without them bearing away there wouldn't be as many ships /modules/ammo etc on the market for us to blow each other up in.

I or one can't be bothered mining the minerals to build even a frigate let alone a battleship so I say fair play to those who can and aren't using macros and bots to do it.

So I ask you the denizens of C&P, why all the hate yo?

Dead Loss said:

They let carebears, whiners and miners in Rote now ?

What has this game come to.

Its complete bull####

They do it because they can and its for lol's.


All other reasoning beyond that is a waste of time to even think about.

Oh, I think the most relevant would be - and I can relate to this a bit:

3. They constantly demand full protection in hisec, whine to CCP about it, and CCP listens.

1. It's a PVP game, and they are not playing the game like I think it should be played.
2. It's boring as hell, so whoever does it is a pathetic gamer and should go back to Solitaire.

I think it's mainly about those two. No, that is not my opinion.

Ahhh, so because someone doesn't play the game the way you think it should be played, they are pathetic?

Now as I said I don't mine myself so this is not tears or whining, I am just puzzled as to why people seem to loathe miners so much as to want to drive them from the game.

Not sure if just unable to read or stupid. Bolded the important part for you.

Ahhh, so because someone doesn't play the game the way you think it should be played, they are pathetic?

OP, this is a person that you should ignore as I described in my first post.

...and they are not playing the game like I think it should be played.

A sandbox that must conform to anyone's preconceived notions is no longer a sandbox.

He didn't say you had to conform to anything, he only said that you are not playing the game he thinks it should be played, in his opinion.

The bottom line is there are many of people with many various play styles in this sandbox called EVE. You are not going to be able to change that anymore than you'll be able to convince real life wackos they are wrong. don't try. Just adapt and and enjoy.

I keep holding out this thought that eventually miners and other industrialists (I, myself, am an industrialist) will come to understand that PVP is not limited in EVE to flying combat ships and shooting things. My products compete on a larger market with all other products of similar type and cost on the market. If somebody buys your product they have no need to buy mine. I make no profit because you already made it. Naturally, the rational solution is to either modify my production or pricing to compete (Market PVP) or to get rid of the problem (buyouts- market pvp, shoot the competition or steal their stuff - pew pew pvp.)

The moment that anything you do influences my income, we have entered into a PVP zone. If you mine, you affect my costs as a producer. You also influence the prices of the other miners. It would be more irrational for those other miners to "live and let live" instead of taking advantage of every chance to beat you in the pvp arena you are both already part of.

There is also some speculation that some sponsers of hulk ganking events actually spend their time before the event purchasing cheap hulks or just manufacturing them in preperation for the thousands of hulk "buyers" about to be created.

1. It's a PVP game, and they are not playing the game like I think it should be played.

To call gankers "wackos" seems to only really work if what they are doing is irrational. Naturally, the rational solution is to either modify my production or pricing to compete (Market PVP) or to get rid of the problem (buyouts- market pvp, shoot the competition or steal their stuff - pew pew pvp.)

I don't hate miners. In fact, I'm pretty fond of the way they don't check d-scan.

To call gankers "wackos" seems to only really work if what they are doing is irrational. If, in any of the situations you already listed and others not included, they stand to gain something from what they do then it would be clear that what they are doing is very obviously rational..

Most of the official points have been displayed here but I can think of one more. Hating miners gives people the excuse to kill them. There is a class of PVPr out there that knows that they can't hang with the big boys so they have to pick on the cripples.

I'll just leave this here. W space is the same as null (so you're consenting to PVP just by being there) and at any time a corpie or his could have decloaked and powned me...

Excuse me. How is killing a Retriever in nullsec any different to killing a Hulk in hisec from the perspective of killing the cripples?

...One time I was flying around high sec and this guy kept posting his deadpace inty fit while sitting 0 m/s and Darwin appeared to me and ordered that I gank him immediately.

Because in high sec there is the expectation that you can operate in relative safety -an illusion I know, but the expectation is there. So the miner doesn't expect to get ganked. You also know who's in local so in the case of can flipping you can gauge how much, if any, backup the victim has. Your only risk in high sec is really from Concord, but you know that already. You are also immune to podding unless someone wants to take a huge security hit.

OK I'm confused, I don't mine myself but reading through the forums there seems to be a hell of a lot of unwarranted hatred towards miners and industrialists.

So I ask you the denizens of C&P, why all the hate yo?

OK I'm confused, I don't mine myself but reading through the forums there seems to be a hell of a lot of unwarranted hatred towards miners and industrialists. (Note: this is not an anti-Hulkageddon thread, I think Hulkageddon is hilarious as I just stand on the sidelines and watch with popcorn at the ready)
I can understand the hate for botters and I applaud any and all attempts to rid them from New Eden. And I can also understand why people don't like the guys who have a bazillion mining alts, but the hate for the average guy in his Hulk who just mines his minerals while chatting to his corp mates so he can build a ship or two seems totally unreasonable to me.

Now as I said I don't mine myself so this is not tears or whining, I am just puzzled as to why people seem to loathe miners so much as to want to drive them from the game. Miners are a key part of the EvE economy (like it or not) without them bearing away there wouldn't be as many ships /modules/ammo etc on the market for us to blow each other up in.

I or one can't be bothered mining the minerals to build even a frigate let alone a battleship so I say fair play to those who can and aren't using macros and bots to do it.

So I ask you the denizens of C&P, why all the hate yo?

They let carebears, whiners and miners in Rote now ?

What has this game come to.

I would say its because they don't play my way, but they don't even play at all. They set the laser and go watch a movie. So, they become an easy target and I have no qualms with going after weak targets. Go ahead and tell me I can't handle low or null sec, it's only empty words from another coward. Sticks and stones and all that.

Personally, I like the way they squeak when you kick them. And then the whole starting up of threads like these where they ask why. Why? Because we can, that's why. You don't like it, learn how to fight back.

I wouldn't go as far as to say people hate miners as much as they like easy kills and taunting people. I don't hate miners but if I see one out of hi-sec I am going to kill him, simple as that. I will then do everything I can to grief him because I am a douche.

Dumbass. Get a clue, not all miners afk mine.

My squeaky toys do and that's all that matters sunshine. You have yourself a good day now.

When I was in the forces, there was a guy like you that used to pretend that he was cool and tuff by being a loud mouth and pissing a lot of people off. When I grabbed him by the neck and told him I was going to break is jaw, he right away pissed in is pants. That was the 1st and only time in my life that someone did that in front of me. When I see posts like yours, it makes me want to live that event again.

A sandbox that must conform to anyone's preconceived notions is no longer a sandbox.

Suicide-Ganking of Miners is not Competitive PvP. It is much more akin to a Terrorist Attack.

You need to read what I wrote over again.. I never called gankers "wackos" (lol, if the shoe fits though...) but you are right there are many ways to work PVP in EVE.

Rocks hazz feelings too

I The fact that carebears have no souls makes it nice. Makes it very easy to sleep at night after tormenting them.

When I was in the forces, there was a guy like you that used to pretend that he was cool and tuff by being a loud mouth and pissing a lot of people off. When I grabbed him by the neck and told him I was going to break is jaw, he right away pissed in is pants. That was the 1st and only time in my life that someone did that in front of me. When I see posts like yours, it makes me want to live that event again.

I gank miners, because they make it easy for me to with their empty midslots and contempt for dmg cntrls. The fact that carebears have no souls makes it nice. Makes it very easy to sleep at night after tormenting them.

When I was in the forces, there was a guy like you that used to pretend that he was cool and tuff by being a loud mouth and pissing a lot of people off. When I grabbed him by the neck and told him I was going to break is jaw, he right away pissed in is pants. That was the 1st and only time in my life that someone did that in front of me. When I see posts like yours, it makes me want to live that event again.

...Other risks for the ganker include bad range/tracking after warping in, more tank than expected, crappy loot/salvage drop, etc. It's not just Concord. And in hisec the loss of your ship is guaranteed, whereas in nullsec you most probably survive.
From this perspective I'd say the hisec gank is even riskier.

Was your kill less risky because the Retriever was dumb enough to go back to the mining site?

...Or, to get back to the original statement: Does it require more balls to fight in a 300 man nullsec blob than to sologank a Hulk?

...Or, to get back to the original statement: Does it require more balls to fight in a 300 man nullsec blob than to sologank a Hulk?

Oh my! Can I touch your bicepts? Honestly though, you wouldn't have done jack to the guy because if you did break his jaw you'd end up serving time with hard labor. At this point, I'm even doubting you where in the "forces" because nearly nobody in the military that I've ever known calls it that. It's called the "Service".

In fact, you can touch me anywhere you want as long as you do it gently.

Sounds like somebody is part of the don't ask don't tell policy!

I don't think the question was why people suicide gank. (wich is largly for the lols and to refill the tear jar) But why some people appear to HATE miners and other highsec pve players.

When I was in the forces, there was a guy like you that used to pretend that he was cool and tuff by being a loud mouth and pissing a lot of people off. When I grabbed him by the neck and told him I was going to break is jaw, he right away pissed in is pants. That was the 1st and only time in my life that someone did that in front of me. When I see posts like yours, it makes me want to live that event again.

Most of the official points have been displayed here but I can think of one more. Hating miners gives people the excuse to kill them. There is a class of PVPr out there that knows that they can't hang with the big boys so they have to pick on the cripples. Thus they rage about how miners are filth and they hate them because of whatever reason their cracked brain can come up with. It is all nonsense though and they pick on miners simply because miners can't fight back. I've also seen the claim made that they are simply culling bots (Which is also untrue). Miners are easy prey, its just a part of life. As long as we have easy prey we will have those that kill them.

Note: I am *NOT* saying that mining ships should be massive tankers. A mining boat is built for one purpose. Mining. The day I see a hulk out on a battlefield somewhere is the day I throw up all over my keyboard. Hulks do NOT need tank buffs.

Vexx

The fact that carebears have no souls makes it nice. Makes it very easy to sleep at night after tormenting them.

You are a first class uneducated dumbass.

Ah, the truth. It stings, doesn't it? Would you enjoy a moist calamine towelette to ease your pain? Or perhaps a Light Neutron Blaster II treatment? I hear it's quite effective.

You can't even scratch the paint on my shuttle, stfu.

You can't even scratch the paint on my shuttle, stfu.

Most of the official points have been displayed here but I can think of one more. Hating miners gives people the excuse to kill them. There is a class of PVPr out there that knows that they can't hang with the big boys so they have to pick on the cripples. Thus they rage about how miners are filth and they hate them because of whatever reason their cracked brain can come up with. It is all nonsense though and they pick on miners simply because miners can't fight back. I've also seen the claim made that they are simply culling bots (Which is also untrue). Miners are easy prey, its just a part of life. As long as we have easy prey we will have those that kill them.

Note: I am *NOT* saying that mining ships should be massive tankers. A mining boat is built for one purpose. Mining. The day I see a hulk out on a battlefield somewhere is the day I throw up all over my keyboard. Hulks do NOT need tank buffs.

Vexx

OK I'm confused, I don't mine myself but reading through the forums there seems to be a hell of a lot of unwarranted hatred towards miners and industrialists. (Note: this is not an anti-Hulkageddon thread, I think Hulkageddon is hilarious as I just stand on the sidelines and watch with popcorn at the ready)
I can understand the hate for botters and I applaud any and all attempts to rid them from New Eden. And I can also understand why people don't like the guys who have a bazillion mining alts, but the hate for the average guy in his Hulk who just mines his minerals while chatting to his corp mates so he can build a ship or two seems totally unreasonable to me.

Now as I said I don't mine myself so this is not tears or whining, I am just puzzled as to why people seem to loathe miners so much as to want to drive them from the game. Miners are a key part of the EvE economy (like it or not) without them bearing away there wouldn't be as many ships /modules/ammo etc on the market for us to blow each other up in.

I or one can't be bothered mining the minerals to build even a frigate let alone a battleship so I say fair play to those who can and aren't using macros and bots to do it.

So I ask you the denizens of C&P, why all the hate yo?

I don't hate miners as a class of player at all. They mine the minerals that make my Hurricanes which allow me to rain death and destruction upon the good and righteous inhabitants of Eve.

What I do hate is the miners that CRY CRY CRY to CPP for immunity from any sort of unconsensual pvp and believe they are entitled to do their thing in complete peace in highsec. I don't care when they pour their tears out on me, mostly because the salty flavor and texture is pleasing to my palette. But when they go to the game developers and ask, nay, demand that they be able to be 100% safe at all times in highsec...that's where I draw my line. I think that is where most people draw their line too.

The unrelenting ganking and griefing is due to miners flapping their lips and acting like babies about nearly everything. EVE is game of risk, and if you can't live with it, there is the airlock. Feel free to jettison your flotsam out of it. Now if they mine, get ganked, and then say to themselves, "Oh well. This happens, and that's the risk I take when going out to mine in a ship with a paper thin tank," there'd be very little hate at all.

What those miners out there are experiencing is what we referred to as 'group punishment' in the military. You're paying the price for someone else who can't stop flapping their lips to the big bosses instead of taking there loss as a learning experience. You're paying because there are crybabies out there who want to transform this game into something it's antithetically against; riskless gaming. Eve does not suffer the weak or stupid. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

I hate to go on a diatribe about this, but those miners and anyone else that dies out there benefits the living. It drives the economy. Those are the people who build Hulks/Macks to replace those you lost, those who slurp up moon-goo in nullsec, and the other miners that where lucky enough to live that day. It drives up mineral prices enough because there is a lesser supply of them due to your death on the market. Supply and demand is the name of the game. EVE is a capitalistic venture, and should always be. It's the thirst for power, money, and the wailing of your enemies.

/soapbox

So much hate in this thread. See'ing the oppinion of both nerd jerks and carebears it seems like in some why all you end up whining about is CCP's changes to game mechanics. It seems like the highsec nerd jerks are in need for highsec to become lowsec. Thus is my question? Why spend your so preciusered hours in a over populated highsec when there's a not so full lowsec for you?
That aint good enough though. Because if you go lowsec you end up getting shot yourself thus it spoils your gameplay. So you choose to stay in highsec, wardec'ing indy corps who supply ships for pvp'ers, suicide gank hulks because you cant shoot anything else or just scam because you see other do it and choose to be just as lazy.

The bottum line is: Want ganks, go lowsec and take upon the games pvp you claim this game to be only. Care about your sec status? Well then theres nullsec.
Highsec are safe heaven and yes you can make isk there, but as much as in low or null? I doubt it. With risk comes isk.

So stop the bullshit about market control or whatever, because if you claim that, you'll look like one of the types mentioned above.

So which one are you? A pvp'er or a carebear. Highsec = carebear. Lowsec/null = PvP'er.

So I ask you the denizens of C&P, why all the hate yo?

come on out to Venal Vexx.
as soon as we burn Jita's sexy tush to the ground tomorrow, to make fun of NCDOT and Raiden and their co-horts, I''m going to bring my battle hulk out to play in that last sytem they so epically died in, hint: ahem and take on their pathetic sub-cap fleet on myself.

money talks and bs flies!!!!!!

TEST ALLIANCE IS THE BEST ALLIANCE!!! I love the CFC <3
see you all in Venal.

Now if I could just find where I put my tear bucket. :looks around:

Less ore mined = less materials refined = less ships and fittings produced = more costs for replace and fitting lost ships = less PVP

oh just shutup, you silly cow....


Your Hulkageddon is very poorly timed, with the droneloot and meta0 mission loot nerf



(I bet you PvPers will be the first to whine about lack of supplies, you dug your own hole...)

You sound mad? This hulkageddon is /expertly/ timed you see~

I or one can't be bothered mining the minerals to build even a frigate let alone a battleship so I say fair play to those who can and aren't using macros and bots to do it.

You sound mad? This hulkageddon is /expertly/ timed you see~

Give it up already. Nobody cares anymore. The days of HG ended with the Tier 3 ships.