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MIkhail Illiad
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
16
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Posted - 2012.04.17 13:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
OK I'm confused, I don't mine myself but reading through the forums there seems to be a hell of a lot of unwarranted hatred towards miners and industrialists. (Note: this is not an anti-Hulkageddon thread, I think Hulkageddon is hilarious as I just stand on the sidelines and watch with popcorn at the ready )
I can understand the hate for botters and I applaud any and all attempts to rid them from New Eden. And I can also understand why people don't like the guys who have a bazillion mining alts, but the hate for the average guy in his Hulk who just mines his minerals while chatting to his corp mates so he can build a ship or two seems totally unreasonable to me.
Now as I said I don't mine myself so this is not tears or whining, I am just puzzled as to why people seem to loathe miners so much as to want to drive them from the game. Miners are a key part of the EvE economy (like it or not) without them bearing away there wouldn't be as many ships /modules/ammo etc on the market for us to blow each other up in.
I or one can't be bothered mining the minerals to build even a frigate let alone a battleship so I say fair play to those who can and aren't using macros and bots to do it.
So I ask you the denizens of C&P, why all the hate yo?
There once was an interesting signature here... It has long since disapeared.-á |
Dead Loss
Sweet Capsuleer Tears
32
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Posted - 2012.04.17 13:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
They let carebears, whiners and miners in Rote now ?
What has this game come to. |
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
51
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 14:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
MIkhail Illiad wrote:OK I'm confused, I don't mine myself but reading through the forums there seems to be a hell of a lot of unwarranted hatred towards miners and industrialists. (Note: this is not an anti-Hulkageddon thread, I think Hulkageddon is hilarious as I just stand on the sidelines and watch with popcorn at the ready ) I can understand the hate for botters and I applaud any and all attempts to rid them from New Eden. And I can also understand why people don't like the guys who have a bazillion mining alts, but the hate for the average guy in his Hulk who just mines his minerals while chatting to his corp mates so he can build a ship or two seems totally unreasonable to me. Now as I said I don't mine myself so this is not tears or whining, I am just puzzled as to why people seem to loathe miners so much as to want to drive them from the game. Miners are a key part of the EvE economy (like it or not) without them bearing away there wouldn't be as many ships /modules/ammo etc on the market for us to blow each other up in. I or one can't be bothered mining the minerals to build even a frigate let alone a battleship so I say fair play to those who can and aren't using macros and bots to do it. So I ask you the denizens of C&P, why all the hate yo?
There apears to be this irrational hate for any form of isk making done in highsec. Many appear to just assume it's "risk free isk". |
MIkhail Illiad
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
16
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Posted - 2012.04.17 14:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote: Dead Loss said:
They let carebears, whiners and miners in Rote now ?
What has this game come to.
Not carebearing or whining or mining, please learn to read before posting, was trying to engage in a discussion about what I see as a pointless hatred of miners... I now see the error in my ways of trying to do that here vOv
There once was an interesting signature here... It has long since disapeared.-á |
MIkhail Illiad
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
16
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Posted - 2012.04.17 14:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
@ Astroniomix
I can understand a dislike for so called risk free ISK making, but there is allways gonna be a way that you can make ISK in eve without having to be 100% focused on what you are doing be it Mining, PI, Moon Mining, Datacores, Invention or whatever.
There once was an interesting signature here... It has long since disapeared.-á |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies
Fidelas Constans
477
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 14:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Its complete bull####
They do it because they can and its for lol's.
All other reasoning beyond that is a waste of time to even think about.
================
Get PAID FOR SPAM!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152 |
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
51
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Posted - 2012.04.17 14:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Its complete bull####
They do it because they can and its for lol's.
All other reasoning beyond that is a waste of time to even think about.
I don't think the question was why people suicide gank. (wich is largly for the lols and to refill the tear jar) But why some people appear to HATE miners and other highsec pve players. |
Tauren Tom
Order of the Silver Dragons
Eternal Evocations
48
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Posted - 2012.04.17 14:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Artificial inflation by autocannon.
It's market control :) my ore is more valuable when others die for it.
Naga stole my bike!
Talos, the official Pizza Wedge of the Gallente Federation. |
Sutskop
PILSGESCHWADER
Monkey Circus
61
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 14:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
1. It's a PVP game, and they are not playing the game like I think it should be played.
2. It's boring as hell, so whoever does it is a pathetic gamer and should go back to Solitaire.
I think it's mainly about those two. No, that is not my opinion. |
uwai223
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
Fatal Ascension
34
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
I don't hate miners, I HUG them. They are so plushy.
We are required by our constitution to let the voters think they have a choice. That's democracy! |
Sutskop
PILSGESCHWADER
Monkey Circus
61
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Oh, I think the most relevant would be - and I can relate to this a bit:
3. They constantly demand full protection in hisec, whine to CCP about it, and CCP listens. |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
98
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
people that hate one class of the Eve population because they don't like their play style are basically morons and you should just ignore them. If someone wants to mine/carebear all day, who cares? They are having fun. If someone PVP's all day in 0.0, who cares? They are having fun
On holiday. -áIn some other world.
Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours.
To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á
It was a sun |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
98
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sutskop wrote:Oh, I think the most relevant would be - and I can relate to this a bit:
3. They constantly demand full protection in hisec, whine to CCP about it, and CCP listens.
don't blame the care bears for this, blame CCP. 0.0 players complain just as much, they just don't get listened to much 
On holiday. -áIn some other world.
Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours.
To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á
It was a sun |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
98
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sutskop wrote:1. It's a PVP game, and they are not playing the game like I think it should be played.
2. It's boring as hell, so whoever does it is a pathetic gamer and should go back to Solitaire.
I think it's mainly about those two. No, that is not my opinion.
Ahhh, so because someone doesn't play the game the way you think it should be played, they are pathetic?
OP, this is a person that you should ignore as I described in my first post.
On holiday. -áIn some other world.
Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours.
To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á
It was a sun |
Sutskop
PILSGESCHWADER
Monkey Circus
61
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 15:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:Sutskop wrote:1. It's a PVP game, and they are not playing the game like I think it should be played.
2. It's boring as hell, so whoever does it is a pathetic gamer and should go back to Solitaire.
I think it's mainly about those two. No, that is not my opinion. Ahhh, so because someone doesn't play the game the way you think it should be played, they are pathetic?
Not sure if just unable to read or stupid. |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
MIkhail Illiad wrote:Now as I said I don't mine myself so this is not tears or whining, I am just puzzled as to why people seem to loathe miners so much as to want to drive them from the game.
Because they're playing their own game, and not the way the pew-pew'ers think it should be played. But it's just about guaranteed that every big strong he-man pew-pew'er flashing his ******* on the forums has one or more miners/industrialists on the side that they never talk about.
It's a lot like someone playing at being straight, but is deeply closeted the whole time... Just look at the toons: intimidating, pierced, trying to look what they think "cool" is... It's all just over-compensating for--- well, you get it. |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
98
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sutskop wrote:Lyron-Baktos wrote:Sutskop wrote:1. It's a PVP game, and they are not playing the game like I think it should be played.
2. It's boring as hell, so whoever does it is a pathetic gamer and should go back to Solitaire.
I think it's mainly about those two. No, that is not my opinion. Ahhh, so because someone doesn't play the game the way you think it should be played, they are pathetic? Not sure if just unable to read or stupid. Bolded the important part for you.
Missed the last line, my bad
just goes to show that those reasons are very popular, however ignorant they are.
On holiday. -áIn some other world.
Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours.
To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á
It was a sun |
Hortense Sledgemallet
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 15:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bottom line is that these guys only care about the killboard.
They want Eve changes and additions to revolve around that.
They do not want CCP devs wasting time on mining ships and research labs.
Its the Kill Board Boys way or the highway.
Recently I created an alt and flew around begging for ISK.
A guy convoed me and said he would give me 20 mill if I promised to never mine because mining was for ***s and this is a PVP only game.
|
Immortis Vexx
Lupus Draconis
Dragehund
8
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Posted - 2012.04.17 16:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Most of the official points have been displayed here but I can think of one more. Hating miners gives people the excuse to kill them. There is a class of PVPr out there that knows that they can't hang with the big boys so they have to pick on the cripples. Thus they rage about how miners are filth and they hate them because of whatever reason their cracked brain can come up with. It is all nonsense though and they pick on miners simply because miners can't fight back. I've also seen the claim made that they are simply culling bots (Which is also untrue). Miners are easy prey, its just a part of life. As long as we have easy prey we will have those that kill them.
Note: I am *NOT* saying that mining ships should be massive tankers. A mining boat is built for one purpose. Mining. The day I see a hulk out on a battlefield somewhere is the day I throw up all over my keyboard. Hulks do NOT need tank buffs.
Vexx |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive
Talocan United
209
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Posted - 2012.04.17 16:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
I don't hate miners. In fact, I'm pretty fond of the way they don't check d-scan. |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
232
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 16:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:Sutskop wrote:1. It's a PVP game, and they are not playing the game like I think it should be played.
2. It's boring as hell, so whoever does it is a pathetic gamer and should go back to Solitaire.
I think it's mainly about those two. No, that is not my opinion. Ahhh, so because someone doesn't play the game the way you think it should be played, they are pathetic? OP, this is a person that you should ignore as I described in my first post.
Ignore him all you want, he's still going to pew pew your mining barge. I'm sure you'll find it hard to ignore the little pretty splosion's
Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Hortense Sledgemallet
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.04.17 16:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
And there's a nice reference to the character face that was just mentioned.
|
Kairos Antilles
United Systems Nautical Service
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 16:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sutskop wrote:...and they are not playing the game like I think it should be played.
A sandbox that must conform to anyone's preconceived notions is no longer a sandbox. |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
232
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 16:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kairos Antilles wrote:Sutskop wrote:...and they are not playing the game like I think it should be played. A sandbox that must conform to anyone's preconceived notions is no longer a sandbox.
He didn't say you had to conform to anything, he only said that you are not playing the game he thinks it should be played, in his opinion.
Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Kairos Antilles
United Systems Nautical Service
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 17:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote:Kairos Antilles wrote:Sutskop wrote:...and they are not playing the game like I think it should be played. A sandbox that must conform to anyone's preconceived notions is no longer a sandbox. He didn't say you had to conform to anything, he only said that you are not playing the game he thinks it should be played, in his opinion.
I did not say he did. But there are those who would, and "they are not playing the game like *I* think it should be played" is often their calling card. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
82
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 17:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Don't be fooled into believing there is only one reason people pick on "carebears".. The careless bears can be just as tearful over loss as the most careful empire dweller - and if not for isk generating activities they would not have anything to fight with unless they bought all their isk by purchasing Plex.. sure some may do this .. but certainly not all.
My point is they would not attack the relatively defenseless miners in high sec if they didn't think it was fun.. heck, most of the time it's probably not fun for most of them .. so to solve the unfun aspect some groups have attempted to excite more folk about attacking miners in high sec by hosting event competitions and offering prizes.
Other players demonize all high sec miners by the (largely false) claim that most high sec miners are bots. Demonizing those you wish to hurt is a time honored sabre rattling tactic and a way of mitigating any possible guilty feelings.
PVPers will cringe at my suggestion that they are "roll playing" - but many do just that... making up all manner of weird sceneios (declaring "JIhad") by which they can explain their bend toward suicide ganking of the defenseless.. whether they want to admit it or not roll play happens as often among pvpers as carebears.
Lastly, don't underestimate the financial benefit that killing off competition provides; if you have a stockpile of minerals stored in Jita and wait for the right moment to sell you can beef up your earnings by reducing the supply temporarily.. There is also some speculation that some sponsers of hulk ganking events actually spend their time before the event purchasing cheap hulks or just manufacturing them in preperation for the thousands of hulk "buyers" about to be created.
The bottom line is there are many of people with many various play styles in this sandbox called EVE. You are not going to be able to change that anymore than you'll be able to convince real life wackos they are wrong. don't try. Just adapt and and enjoy.
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
David Cedarbridge
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
201
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 22:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:The bottom line is there are many of people with many various play styles in this sandbox called EVE. You are not going to be able to change that anymore than you'll be able to convince real life wackos they are wrong. don't try. Just adapt and and enjoy.
To call gankers "wackos" seems to only really work if what they are doing is irrational. If, in any of the situations you already listed and others not included, they stand to gain something from what they do then it would be clear that what they are doing is very obviously rational.
I keep holding out this thought that eventually miners and other industrialists (I, myself, am an industrialist) will come to understand that PVP is not limited in EVE to flying combat ships and shooting things. My products compete on a larger market with all other products of similar type and cost on the market. If somebody buys your product they have no need to buy mine. I make no profit because you already made it. Naturally, the rational solution is to either modify my production or pricing to compete (Market PVP) or to get rid of the problem (buyouts- market pvp, shoot the competition or steal their stuff - pew pew pvp.)
The moment that anything you do influences my income, we have entered into a PVP zone. If you mine, you affect my costs as a producer. You also influence the prices of the other miners. It would be more irrational for those other miners to "live and let live" instead of taking advantage of every chance to beat you in the pvp arena you are both already part of. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
423
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 23:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
David Cedarbridge wrote:I keep holding out this thought that eventually miners and other industrialists (I, myself, am an industrialist) will come to understand that PVP is not limited in EVE to flying combat ships and shooting things. My products compete on a larger market with all other products of similar type and cost on the market. If somebody buys your product they have no need to buy mine. I make no profit because you already made it. Naturally, the rational solution is to either modify my production or pricing to compete (Market PVP) or to get rid of the problem (buyouts- market pvp, shoot the competition or steal their stuff - pew pew pvp.)
The moment that anything you do influences my income, we have entered into a PVP zone. If you mine, you affect my costs as a producer. You also influence the prices of the other miners. It would be more irrational for those other miners to "live and let live" instead of taking advantage of every chance to beat you in the pvp arena you are both already part of.
I, too, love seeing hte beautiful 0.01 isk pileups in the market.
Take all the tech
Build all the titans
Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
423
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 23:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote: There is also some speculation that some sponsers of hulk ganking events actually spend their time before the event purchasing cheap hulks or just manufacturing them in preperation for the thousands of hulk "buyers" about to be created.
Oh, it's pretty much been announced outright by some, I think so you don't have to be careful about qualifying that statement.
Because people will still have to buy hulks unless they, too, prepurchase em.
Take all the tech
Build all the titans
Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
541
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 00:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sutskop wrote:1. It's a PVP game, and they are not playing the game like I think it should be played.
WHEN will it ever enter your tiny skulls that EVE is a SANDBOX and was never designed nor intended to be an exclusively PvP game. A Dangerous Sandbox.
There isn't anything left for you to do to Carebears. -áGo, kill them some more. They're like fungus or bacteria, they won't die and they won't stop. All you have to show for years of organized harassment campaigns against them is ... nothing. |
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