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Is Eve TOO PvP orientated?

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Seleene	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:41:00 - [31] Originally by: Orestes Nailed it right on the head! Oh, I agree, Orestes. Just saying I'm always in the market to blow up something new. - T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today!
Seleene	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:41:00 - [32] Originally by: Orestes Nailed it right on the head! Oh, I agree, Orestes. Just saying I'm always in the market to blow up something new. - T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today!
Rot Animal	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:42:00 - [33] There have also been some big changes in NPC hunting recently. The devs aren't just focusing on PvP but it is an important part (probably the most important part) of the game and it is very complicated and the balance is fragile so it is only natural that it gets the most attention.
Rot Animal	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:42:00 - [34] There have also been some big changes in NPC hunting recently. The devs aren't just focusing on PvP but it is an important part (probably the most important part) of the game and it is very complicated and the balance is fragile so it is only natural that it gets the most attention.
Redan Chulipa	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:44:00 - [35] Yes, there's hardly ever a skill implemented that's not ship oriented for solving a problem or balancing anything, there's 519 skills for shields and what 5 or is it 6 to cover the whole social interaction with NPC. You are your ship.
Redan Chulipa	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:44:00 - [36] Yes, there's hardly ever a skill implemented that's not ship oriented for solving a problem or balancing anything, there's 519 skills for shields and what 5 or is it 6 to cover the whole social interaction with NPC. You are your ship.
Orestes	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:47:00 - [37] Originally by: Seleene Oh, I agree, Orestes. Just saying I'm always in the market to blow up something new. So am I Join the IC!
Orestes	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:47:00 - [38] Originally by: Seleene Oh, I agree, Orestes. Just saying I'm always in the market to blow up something new. So am I Join the IC!
Rot Animal	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Redan Chulipa Yes, there's hardly ever a skill implemented that's not ship oriented for solving a problem or balancing anything, there's 519 skills for shields and what 5 or is it 6 to cover the whole social interaction with NPC. You are your ship. I don't know about you but my social skills pretty much cover everything I do with NPCs so I don't know what could be added there. They have a skill that improves your current faction, a skill that improves your faction gains, a skill for agent mission rewards. Perhaps it's lack of sleep but I can't think of many new skills they could add that I would buy. Sure you could come up with some skills like "Seduction: dealing with agents of the opposite sex" but I'd rather have more skills that actually change something.
Rot Animal	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:52:00 - [40] Originally by: Redan Chulipa Yes, there's hardly ever a skill implemented that's not ship oriented for solving a problem or balancing anything, there's 519 skills for shields and what 5 or is it 6 to cover the whole social interaction with NPC. You are your ship. I don't know about you but my social skills pretty much cover everything I do with NPCs so I don't know what could be added there. They have a skill that improves your current faction, a skill that improves your faction gains, a skill for agent mission rewards. Perhaps it's lack of sleep but I can't think of many new skills they could add that I would buy. Sure you could come up with some skills like "Seduction: dealing with agents of the opposite sex" but I'd rather have more skills that actually change something.
Psy Corp	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:53:00 - [41] welll as i se it there doing what they did last year at the same time so hopefully they get it right this time so i can get something els then pvp/shoot npc or do agent missions next year.. pvp is fun, but you need other stuff to do to.. in a way you could do more none pvp stuff last year I Have The Power Of The Mighty Lo.0lipop..
Psy Corp	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:53:00 - [42] welll as i se it there doing what they did last year at the same time so hopefully they get it right this time so i can get something els then pvp/shoot npc or do agent missions next year.. pvp is fun, but you need other stuff to do to.. in a way you could do more none pvp stuff last year I Have The Power Of The Mighty Lo.0lipop..
Estios	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:58:00 - [43] Edited by: Estios on 28/07/2004 11:02:37 Balancing ships and combat modules isnt just a PVP thing, its a whole game issue and having balanced guns and ships is something which should have been done months ago but its just so tough. I dont think emphasis on PVP is too high at all really. If it was Insta jumps, safe spots, map features etc would have been addressed a long time ago. Instead named NPC's with uber loot have been introduced and many players negate PVP to hunt npc's now (ok to get better mods to PVP eventually but still) and the love which has been given to agent runners eclipses any love shown to the PVP players. I dont see the Angel Cartel telling me I can have a Tech 2 1400mm for blowing up a CA mining op in their space but the Caldari Navy Academy deem it fit to give Agent runner X a multi million isk combat ship blueprint or implant for hauling garbage back and forth all day Zelota kills hundreds of Angel Cartel battleships everyday apparently. I blow up his Apoc and tip my hat to the Angel guys as I warp out of belt chasing his pod, they dont even say thanks and try and lock me ...the audacity ..where is my love ? Balancing the ships and guns etc helps everyone, especially PVP'ers ....but remember now they are balanced some agent runner can get the Tech 2 Tachyon beam bpo and be rich enough to lose BS's everyday and not care....everyone wins So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Estios	Posted - 2004.07.28 10:58:00 - [44] Edited by: Estios on 28/07/2004 11:02:37 Balancing ships and combat modules isnt just a PVP thing, its a whole game issue and having balanced guns and ships is something which should have been done months ago but its just so tough. I dont think emphasis on PVP is too high at all really. If it was Insta jumps, safe spots, map features etc would have been addressed a long time ago. Instead named NPC's with uber loot have been introduced and many players negate PVP to hunt npc's now (ok to get better mods to PVP eventually but still) and the love which has been given to agent runners eclipses any love shown to the PVP players. I dont see the Angel Cartel telling me I can have a Tech 2 1400mm for blowing up a CA mining op in their space but the Caldari Navy Academy deem it fit to give Agent runner X a multi million isk combat ship blueprint or implant for hauling garbage back and forth all day Zelota kills hundreds of Angel Cartel battleships everyday apparently. I blow up his Apoc and tip my hat to the Angel guys as I warp out of belt chasing his pod, they dont even say thanks and try and lock me ...the audacity ..where is my love ? Balancing the ships and guns etc helps everyone, especially PVP'ers ....but remember now they are balanced some agent runner can get the Tech 2 Tachyon beam bpo and be rich enough to lose BS's everyday and not care....everyone wins So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
darth solo	Posted - 2004.07.28 11:12:00 - [45] PVP and darth solo make this game. Everything else is just a waste of time. JK.
darth solo	Posted - 2004.07.28 11:12:00 - [46] PVP and darth solo make this game. Everything else is just a waste of time. JK.
Shade Widow	Posted - 2004.07.28 11:23:00 - [47] People need pvp because they have nothing else to fall back on. To much we see people either wanting the biggest ship or becomeing skillfull in tons of skills but a master of none. Eve is set up in a way where people can master skills and take a certain career path. Unfortunatly they usually end up getting mixed with the other skills and lose sight of anything they want to do because they want to try (everything). Without the aid of some sort of role playing or feeling thier task is important PVP becomes the only place they can find some sort of achievment for themselves. For me I wouldnt mind PVPing for the fun of it infact Id like to. Still my main goal in this game and still remains to Become a Covert Op Refiner. Being able to go anywhere and refine for my corp. I plan on maxing all the refine skills. Yes I know theres tons yes I know its a waste of time for some. That is how I want my char to end up and if I follow that path its more then likely that at the end of the day ill be sticking around as a refiner and happy sneaking around refineing for my corp when my skills develope. ---
Shade Widow	Posted - 2004.07.28 11:23:00 - [48] People need pvp because they have nothing else to fall back on. To much we see people either wanting the biggest ship or becomeing skillfull in tons of skills but a master of none. Eve is set up in a way where people can master skills and take a certain career path. Unfortunatly they usually end up getting mixed with the other skills and lose sight of anything they want to do because they want to try (everything). Without the aid of some sort of role playing or feeling thier task is important PVP becomes the only place they can find some sort of achievment for themselves. For me I wouldnt mind PVPing for the fun of it infact Id like to. Still my main goal in this game and still remains to Become a Covert Op Refiner. Being able to go anywhere and refine for my corp. I plan on maxing all the refine skills. Yes I know theres tons yes I know its a waste of time for some. That is how I want my char to end up and if I follow that path its more then likely that at the end of the day ill be sticking around as a refiner and happy sneaking around refineing for my corp when my skills develope. ---
Zipoldy	Posted - 2004.07.28 11:28:00 - [49] Most balancing seems to go towards Fighting atm... Turrets was the last next is Missiles/Drones... so that is all for PVP/NPC or missions... so when is Mining/Trade getting the LOVE... looks like it's after Shiva if ever... very little spoken about it... Zipoldy
Zipoldy	Posted - 2004.07.28 11:28:00 - [50] Most balancing seems to go towards Fighting atm... Turrets was the last next is Missiles/Drones... so that is all for PVP/NPC or missions... so when is Mining/Trade getting the LOVE... looks like it's after Shiva if ever... very little spoken about it... Zipoldy
Bhaal	Posted - 2004.07.28 11:47:00 - [51] Quote: Does anyone feel the miners/scientists/traders/and other non-PvP (yes, I know most things in this game are PvP but I'm talking about the Lock, F1, F2, F3, F4 kind of PvP) specializations are being ignored? It's not too PvP orientated, it's just too Combat PvP orientated... As I've stated b4 (http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=97357) I'd like to see CCP actually give us a real class of industrial ships... Throwing us a bone with just "IndyÆs" is a joke, IMO... They need to get off their ass and give the Industrialists as many toys to play with as the Combat orientated players... You might actually get more subscribers this way... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Bhaal	Posted - 2004.07.28 11:47:00 - [52] Quote: Does anyone feel the miners/scientists/traders/and other non-PvP (yes, I know most things in this game are PvP but I'm talking about the Lock, F1, F2, F3, F4 kind of PvP) specializations are being ignored? It's not too PvP orientated, it's just too Combat PvP orientated... As I've stated b4 (http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=97357) I'd like to see CCP actually give us a real class of industrial ships... Throwing us a bone with just "IndyÆs" is a joke, IMO... They need to get off their ass and give the Industrialists as many toys to play with as the Combat orientated players... You might actually get more subscribers this way... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Redan Chulipa	Posted - 2004.07.28 12:35:00 - [53] There's a whole score of social skills you could implement if you wanted to, Fencing, Racketeering, Factional Liason, Exclusive Supplier, all with their added little bonuses, just like the millions of shield skills, you take a nap and perhaps you will see this too.
Redan Chulipa	Posted - 2004.07.28 12:35:00 - [54] There's a whole score of social skills you could implement if you wanted to, Fencing, Racketeering, Factional Liason, Exclusive Supplier, all with their added little bonuses, just like the millions of shield skills, you take a nap and perhaps you will see this too.
Cycler	Posted - 2004.07.28 12:50:00 - [55] I've always wanted to be a smuggler in EVE, but it seems that side of the game is underdeveloped too... ___________________________ No Good without Evil. No Love without Hate. No Innocence without Sin.
Cycler	Posted - 2004.07.28 12:50:00 - [56] I've always wanted to be a smuggler in EVE, but it seems that side of the game is underdeveloped too... ___________________________ No Good without Evil. No Love without Hate. No Innocence without Sin.
Gomatong	Posted - 2004.07.28 12:50:00 - [57] PvP is 'cheap' it doesn't require any significant content. Give them a few a ship and guns and let them blast each other. Most of the other careers are PvE orientated and require content and programming.
Gomatong	Posted - 2004.07.28 12:50:00 - [58] PvP is 'cheap' it doesn't require any significant content. Give them a few a ship and guns and let them blast each other. Most of the other careers are PvE orientated and require content and programming.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.07.28 13:07:00 - [59] Originally by: Shade Widow People need pvp because they have nothing else to fall back on. To much we see people either wanting the biggest ship or becomeing skillfull in tons of skills but a master of none. Eve is set up in a way where people can master skills and take a certain career path. Unfortunatly they usually end up getting mixed with the other skills and lose sight of anything they want to do because they want to try (everything). Without the aid of some sort of role playing or feeling thier task is important PVP becomes the only place they can find some sort of achievment for themselves. I think you're spot on here. Eve proponents often like to quote its open-ended nature as its biggest asset but I think it's also its biggest liability. The lack of game-wide recognition or specific goals renders pretty much everything any of us do utterly pointless. You might say that's true of any game but in a traditional single-player game the game designer takes care to give you rewards to show how good you are. In an MMORPG recognition comes from items/skills you have acquired or other players recognising your name. The downside to using item/skill ownership as recognition is that new players lag behind older players. Eve is actually very good in the way it avoids this problem. Unfortunately it makes no attempt to provide the alternative recognition. There is no way I can compare my character with anyone else'. We can compare stats or assets but what does that prove? When it comes to things our characters have done there is no way to compare. As a result next to nothing any of us do in Eve is of any importance. We are all faceless nobodys flying around doing "stuff" for no good reason. For younger people that may be enough but I think that for the more mature player (the ones who can most easily afford to subscribe to an MMORPG) it isn't enough. By the time you reach your mid to late thirties you are: a)A part of the population every marketing department wants to tap into. We have loads of money and have got bored with pretty much everything else but are still young enough to fritter our money away on computer games. b)Someone who has signed up to the work/reward paradigm. This means that we instinctively don't like doing something without getting a reward. After two decades of working for a living we have realised that only an idiot would waste time or money doing something without getting anything back. I think Eve needs some kind of league table. Somewhere you can go and compare actual server recorded stats for whatever you are interested in. Add in a HUD icon to indicate a ship that is in the top-whatever of the categories you have selected and now people can recognise you as the uber miner from hell you always thought you were. They will either give you the respect you are so obviously entitled to or crap themselves laughing -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.07.28 13:07:00 - [60] Originally by: Shade Widow People need pvp because they have nothing else to fall back on. To much we see people either wanting the biggest ship or becomeing skillfull in tons of skills but a master of none. Eve is set up in a way where people can master skills and take a certain career path. Unfortunatly they usually end up getting mixed with the other skills and lose sight of anything they want to do because they want to try (everything). Without the aid of some sort of role playing or feeling thier task is important PVP becomes the only place they can find some sort of achievment for themselves. I think you're spot on here. Eve proponents often like to quote its open-ended nature as its biggest asset but I think it's also its biggest liability. The lack of game-wide recognition or specific goals renders pretty much everything any of us do utterly pointless. You might say that's true of any game but in a traditional single-player game the game designer takes care to give you rewards to show how good you are. In an MMORPG recognition comes from items/skills you have acquired or other players recognising your name. The downside to using item/skill ownership as recognition is that new players lag behind older players. Eve is actually very good in the way it avoids this problem. Unfortunately it makes no attempt to provide the alternative recognition. There is no way I can compare my character with anyone else'. We can compare stats or assets but what does that prove? When it comes to things our characters have done there is no way to compare. As a result next to nothing any of us do in Eve is of any importance. We are all faceless nobodys flying around doing "stuff" for no good reason. For younger people that may be enough but I think that for the more mature player (the ones who can most easily afford to subscribe to an MMORPG) it isn't enough. By the time you reach your mid to late thirties you are: a)A part of the population every marketing department wants to tap into. We have loads of money and have got bored with pretty much everything else but are still young enough to fritter our money away on computer games. b)Someone who has signed up to the work/reward paradigm. This means that we instinctively don't like doing something without getting a reward. After two decades of working for a living we have realised that only an idiot would waste time or money doing something without getting anything back. I think Eve needs some kind of league table. Somewhere you can go and compare actual server recorded stats for whatever you are interested in. Add in a HUD icon to indicate a ship that is in the top-whatever of the categories you have selected and now people can recognise you as the uber miner from hell you always thought you were. They will either give you the respect you are so obviously entitled to or crap themselves laughing -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.

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