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Shibbykiko	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:29:00 - [1] Why not just get rid of concord and make it so you can't lock other people in empire? Thats where this game seems to be heading, it's becoming zone based PvP because care bears are so adamant about have 0 RISK even if it means almost 0 reward. I don't understand why my play style is being forced to change, because people are so anti pvp in a pvp game? (And by my play style I mean actually having the option of attacking and killing some body in empire if I think they are an enemy logistics corp) I remember starting this game years ago, and there was actually threat that you could be blown up everywhere you went... now its basically none in empire what so ever. It makes the game bland and boring. So CCP, why is this cold dark evil pvp game, a warm fuzzy carebear land everywhere thats not low/null sec? And why is there so much reward with absolutely 0 risk? Long story short, Nerf Empire, Nerf Bear rewards, buff 0.0 and low sec so people go there and can be shot.
Dau Imperius Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:30:00 - [2] No.
Fail Cat Sad Panda Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:31:00 - [3] Edited by: Fail Cat on 19/01/2009 18:32:19 Edited by: Fail Cat on 19/01/2009 18:32:06 Why not? bears are ruining this space PVP game... I agreeee
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:33:00 - [4] I hope that if the day of PvP reckoning comes that CCP has the decency to implement OP's suggestion. Having CONCORD remain in-game when no one actually has a chance of successfully suiciding anyone with anything would serve only to mock older players.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:34:00 - [5] Edited by: MotherMoon on 19/01/2009 18:34:35 how is eve zone pvp? what changed in the last week? did I miss something? oh you mean the fact that you take a bigger sec hit? yeah no one cares, and ncarebears still get killed everyday in highsec.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:34:00 - [6] Where is Khemul and his dead horse gif when you need it.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:35:00 - [7] Agreed. Let's stop the increasingly threadbare pretence that hi-sec has non-consensual PvP, and change the PvE rewards there to reflect it's "starter area" status.
Mire Stoude Cash Money Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:36:00 - [8] I like shooting newbies too!
Fail Cat Sad Panda Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:39:00 - [9] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 19/01/2009 18:34:35 how is eve zone pvp? what changed in the last week? did I miss something? oh you mean the fact that you take a bigger sec hit? yeah no one cares, and ncarebears still get killed everyday in highsec. You haven't tried too suicide anyone lately have you? Idgaf about sec hits, the fact that you are insta jammed/scrammed/webbed/neuted and wtfbbq pwned in maybe 3 seconds is what killed it. Now GTFO.
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:41:00 - [10] They're not carebears. They're merely protecting their primary goals. Just ask Malcanis. I'm sure he'll agree with me.
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:44:00 - [11] Pirate tears fuel my freighter. Mmmm.. Tasty.
Shibbykiko	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:46:00 - [12] Edited by: Shibbykiko on 19/01/2009 18:47:04 Im not a pirate... with the broken wardec system, and care bears being safe from any sort of exploit punishments by corp hopping, its basically impossible to stop enemy logistics. CCP can you atleast give us a working war dec system? And or/ban care bears violating the rules?
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:47:00 - [13] Ganking carebears who can't possibly fight back != "PVP" Just as "Shooting fish in a barrel" != "Fishing" The problem is NOT the fact that you can't suicide unsuspecting carebears. The problem is: a) People can stay in Non-FW Starter corps FOREVER. b) Wardec system is completely broken and easily avoided. Remove A and fix B and you can have all the non-consensual PVP you want. Savvy?
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Fail Cat Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 19/01/2009 18:34:35 how is eve zone pvp? what changed in the last week? did I miss something? oh you mean the fact that you take a bigger sec hit? yeah no one cares, and ncarebears still get killed everyday in highsec. You haven't tried too suicide anyone lately have you? Idgaf about sec hits, the fact that you are insta jammed/scrammed/webbed/neuted and wtfbbq pwned in maybe 3 seconds is what killed it. Now GTFO. So suiciding is pvp now instead of the greif tool it was before? I guess you call hunting squirrels with an automatic shotgun an hourable duel instead of a slaughter. Want to pvp in empire then go wardec someone or if you are a soloish type of person join the privateers as they take anyone and have fun too.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Matrix Skye They're not carebears. They're merely protecting their primary goals. Just ask Malcanis. I'm sure he'll agree with me. As long as they are protecting their primary goal and not asking CCP to protect it for them then I have absolutely no issue with "carebears" whatsoever. In fact I'd say that if they're protecting their goals themselves then by definition they aren't carebears. It's the ones who run squeaking to the forums and the GMs and the devs for ever more protection who are carebears. Feel free to spend as much time as you like searching for some post of mine that contradicts this basic principle. Or do what you normally do, and imagine me saying something that contradicts it, and then post as if I had in fact said it. So much easier 'winning' your imaginary arguments against my imaginary posts, isn't it? Who needs "facts"?
YunFu Yan Yan Enterprises	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:49:00 - [16] Why ***** so much about the baers? Ever thought of what you would fly without them? Feel like mining 3 days to replace a lost battleship or paying ridiciulous prices for modules? Care bearing is what keeps the economy going. Without bears you'd be PvP'ing in noob ships in no time.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Bish Ounen Ganking carebears who can't possibly fight back != "PVP" Just as "Shooting fish in a barrel" != "Fishing" have you ever actually been fishing? Do you know how most fish are caught?
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:52:00 - [18] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Bish Ounen Ganking carebears who can't possibly fight back != "PVP" Just as "Shooting fish in a barrel" != "Fishing" have you ever actually been fishing? Do you know how most fish are caught? By pretending to be an underage girl on the internet and seducing them into coming to your house where that one guy can ambush them on national television?
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Qordel Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Bish Ounen Ganking carebears who can't possibly fight back != "PVP" Just as "Shooting fish in a barrel" != "Fishing" have you ever actually been fishing? Do you know how most fish are caught? By pretending to be an underage girl on the internet and seducing them into coming to your house where that one guy can ambush them on national television? I believe that is the greenpeace-approved method.
Karentaki Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:55:00 - [20] Originally by: YunFu Yan Why ***** so much about the baers? Ever thought of what you would fly without them? Feel like mining 3 days to replace a lost battleship or paying ridiciulous prices for modules? Care bearing is what keeps the economy going. Without bears you'd be PvP'ing in noob ships in no time. Not all carebears are industrialists. Not all industrialists are carebears. Now repeat that over and over again until you get a clue.
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Bish Ounen Ganking carebears who can't possibly fight back != "PVP" Just as "Shooting fish in a barrel" != "Fishing" have you ever actually been fishing? Do you know how most fish are caught? Yes. Fly fishing, Bobber/worm, lure/spinning reel AND deep sea Marlin fishing. Oddly, none of them involved barrels, firearms, or foregone conclusions.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:00:00 - [22] Originally by: Bish Ounen Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Bish Ounen Ganking carebears who can't possibly fight back != "PVP" Just as "Shooting fish in a barrel" != "Fishing" have you ever actually been fishing? Do you know how most fish are caught? Yes. Fly fishing, Bobber/worm, lure/spinning reel AND deep sea Marlin fishing. Oddly, none of them involved barrels, firearms, or foregone conclusions. I think malcanis was aluding to a deep sea trawler with its huge arse nets that don't give fish a chance. However that is not applicable to suiciding in empire but a bubblecamp in 0.0 sounds moar like it. The dynamite is a perfect example as some poor fish(miner) minding his own business doing what fish do gets slapped in the face with a huge shockwave (smartbomb) and stunned or killed. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Bish Ounen Ganking carebears who can't possibly fight back != "PVP" Just as "Shooting fish in a barrel" != "Fishing" The problem is NOT the fact that you can't suicide unsuspecting carebears. The problem is: a) People can stay in Non-FW Starter corps FOREVER. b) Wardec system is completely broken and easily avoided. Remove A and fix B and you can have all the non-consensual PVP you want. Savvy? maybe players should be forced to into FW after a month. then everyone would have war targets to shoot at! I mean your school should kick you out after a while. And if you don't join a militia a player should be able to go it corpless, but when your corpless concord won't protect you because your not with anyone paying them. But honestly think about it, if everyone had to join FW, then no one would be in safe space. pirates would still ***** and moan about carebears but those carebear would have to try eve with someone out there able to open fire at them at any time. I think moving playing into FW is the best way to do this. basicly empire wars without the ability to have aplayer corp declare war on them. It's sort safe, but not :P
Shibbykiko	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:02:00 - [24] Originally by: YunFu Yan Why ***** so much about the baers? Ever thought of what you would fly without them? Feel like mining 3 days to replace a lost battleship or paying ridiciulous prices for modules? Care bearing is what keeps the economy going. Without bears you'd be PvP'ing in noob ships in no time. I make my own ships in 0.0 this would not effect me and if anything it would bring more industry back to 0.0, most likely making ships more available in 0.0. Wouldn't effect me one bit. And this isn't about just popping n00bs, with the current broken war dec system, and the bears crying for concord buffs, its impossible to shoot logistics. If I see a ship I know is carrying stront or just anything that would benefit the current target I can't do anything... i can dec that corp but chances are its the n00b corp or they just corp hop. ________________________________________ Care bears should be banned!!!
Shibbykiko	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Bish Ounen Ganking carebears who can't possibly fight back != "PVP" Just as "Shooting fish in a barrel" != "Fishing" The problem is NOT the fact that you can't suicide unsuspecting carebears. The problem is: a) People can stay in Non-FW Starter corps FOREVER. b) Wardec system is completely broken and easily avoided. Remove A and fix B and you can have all the non-consensual PVP you want. Savvy? Its not like shooting fish in a barrel. Which IMO is fun. But its like fishing in a pond with a really big net, which IS fishing. ________________________________________ Care bears should be banned!!!
Mikalya Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Malcanis As long as they are protecting their primary goal and not asking CCP to protect it for them then I have absolutely no issue with "carebears" whatsoever. In fact I'd say that if they're protecting their goals themselves then by definition they aren't carebears. It's the ones who run squeaking to the forums and the GMs and the devs for ever more protection who are carebears. Funny thing is I see more people whining about the Bears than bears whining about them What does that make them? By your definition that makes them Bears too... Not counting yourself in that group as I've never seen you gripe for CCP's help. But the OP is definately in that category
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Shibbykiko Originally by: Bish Ounen Ganking carebears who can't possibly fight back != "PVP" Just as "Shooting fish in a barrel" != "Fishing" The problem is NOT the fact that you can't suicide unsuspecting carebears. The problem is: a) People can stay in Non-FW Starter corps FOREVER. b) Wardec system is completely broken and easily avoided. Remove A and fix B and you can have all the non-consensual PVP you want. Savvy? Its not like shooting fish in a barrel. Which IMO is fun. But its like fishing in a pond with a really big net, which IS fishing. Meh, it's only fun if you shoot fish in a barrel "Mythbusters style" and use a minigun. Seriously, technically putting agiant net into a tiny pond (or in the ocean) is NOT fishing. Technically, it's called "trawling". Either way, the analogy stands, even when "trawling" the fish CAN get away. They just don't very often. Shooting fish in a barrel is pretty much a foregone conclusion. Even using a .22 or a 9mm, the shock wave alone will kill any fish in the barrel. Suicide ganking haulers and mining ships isn't PVP. It's good for a few lol's, but that's it. REAL PVP comes when the enemy can and does shoot back, even if you outmatch them in every way, there is a chance (although small) they might kill you or get away. MUCH more enjoyable than a suicide gank. I refer back to my original post. We need to push people out of non-FW NPC corps after a set amount of time (1 month? 3?) and into a FW corp or a player run corp. Even if they start their own one-man corp, at least then they are fully taking part in all aspects of EvE. The wardec system also needs to be fixed, to both actively prevent corp-hopping, AND to discourage wardec greifing. I posted on this issue before. Until these things are fixed, there will be little to no PVP in hisec. Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadI
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:47:00 - [28] Originally by: Qordel Pirate tears fuel my freighter. Mmmm.. Tasty. Pirate tears can cure Cancer...Too bad Real Pirates Don't Cry. CCP Atlas - The Short Story - "With Quantum Rise, we kind of messed up the performance of the EVE client."
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:48:00 - [29] Originally by: Mikalya Originally by: Malcanis As long as they are protecting their primary goal and not asking CCP to protect it for them then I have absolutely no issue with "carebears" whatsoever. In fact I'd say that if they're protecting their goals themselves then by definition they aren't carebears. It's the ones who run squeaking to the forums and the GMs and the devs for ever more protection who are carebears. Funny thing is I see more people whining about the Bears than bears whining about them What does that make them? By your definition that makes them Bears too... Not counting yourself in that group as I've never seen you gripe for CCP's help. But the OP is definately in that category Ah you must have missed the forum fun this summer then. Bear tears abounded.
Maren Maen	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:49:00 - [30] You jokers really just don't get it do you... If you try to force people to play eve "your way" they'll just say fu and leave, and then you'll just be whining about not having unsuspecting noobcakes to shoot at while they're having fun in some other game. The real 'problem' is that you all are here whining instead of playing the game. Kinda surprising really since you people are supposed to be the tough guy "pvp" crowd and here you are, waaa waaa waaa'ing away. Yes, I find it amusing. Yes, I am a carebear. And yes, I've been suicide ganked since the last patch. That guy figured out how to do it; if you can't, I'll shed a tear for you if I can find a spare one.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:52:00 - [31] Originally by: Mikalya Originally by: Malcanis As long as they are protecting their primary goal and not asking CCP to protect it for them then I have absolutely no issue with "carebears" whatsoever. In fact I'd say that if they're protecting their goals themselves then by definition they aren't carebears. It's the ones who run squeaking to the forums and the GMs and the devs for ever more protection who are carebears. Funny thing is I see more people whining about the Bears than bears whining about them What does that make them? By your definition that makes them Bears too... Not counting yourself in that group as I've never seen you gripe for CCP's help. But the OP is definately in that category And bringing up the 'not getting it group' what do they think would happen if empire was completely non-consensual pvp so they could gank at will? Why they would get blown up by all the other bigger fish whilst they try to blow up the smaller fish. Oops guess they didn't think it all the way through after all. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Shibbykiko	Posted - 2009.01.19 20:06:00 - [32] Originally by: Maren Maen You jokers really just don't get it do you... If you try to force people to play eve "your way" they'll just say fu and leave, and then you'll just be whining about not having unsuspecting noobcakes to shoot at while they're having fun in some other game. The real 'problem' is that you all are here whining instead of playing the game. Kinda surprising really since you people are supposed to be the tough guy "pvp" crowd and here you are, waaa waaa waaa'ing away. Yes, I find it amusing. Yes, I am a carebear. And yes, I've been suicide ganked since the last patch. That guy figured out how to do it; if you can't, I'll shed a tear for you if I can find a spare one. I can't play the game I'm at work, and because the carebears are forcing to play the game my way I might have to emo rage quit. ________________________________________ Care bears should be banned!!!
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2009.01.19 20:09:00 - [33] Originally by: Maren Maen You jokers really just don't get it do you... If you try to force people to play eve "your way" they'll just say fu and leave, and then you'll just be whining about not having unsuspecting noobcakes to shoot at while they're having fun in some other game. The real 'problem' is that you all are here whining instead of playing the game. Kinda surprising really since you people are supposed to be the tough guy "pvp" crowd and here you are, waaa waaa waaa'ing away. Yes, I find it amusing. Yes, I am a carebear. And yes, I've been suicide ganked since the last patch. That guy figured out how to do it; if you can't, I'll shed a tear for you if I can find a spare one. So because carebears are whiner pre-madonnas who are ascared of risking pixels in a game, everyone else has to follow their playstyle? Eventually, we'll just say FU and leave. Then CCP can be proud of their second-job isk grinding game.
kor anon Amarr The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.01.19 20:15:00 - [34] CCP should escalate FW for a campaign of some sort, then after the thing has finished turn most of highsec into lowsec space, as faction forces and concord are depleted. Move all level 3/4s into lowsec. Then you could have the dozen or so highsec systems to have no PVP whatsoever (but have a kickout timer, after a certain amount of time people have to leave highsec). Dont care if its feasable or not, its a fun idea
Maren Maen	Posted - 2009.01.19 20:18:00 - [35] Originally by: Gnomes Rock So because carebears are whiner pre-madonnas who are ascared of risking pixels in a game, everyone else has to follow their playstyle? Eventually, we'll just say FU and leave. Then CCP can be proud of their second-job isk grinding game. Feel free to spare us all the anticipation and just fly, fly away now. And it's "prima donna," but since you seem to think that phrase has something to do with madonna you just told the rest of us exactly what type of person/player you are. Yes, fly fly away little birdie, knowing that you're getting away before eve becomes complete desolate for you.
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2009.01.19 20:20:00 - [36] Edited by: Gnomes Rock on 19/01/2009 20:21:35 Edited by: Gnomes Rock on 19/01/2009 20:21:08 Originally by: Maren Maen Feel free to spare us all the anticipation and just fly, fly away now. And it's "prima donna," but since you seem to think that phrase has something to do with madonna you just told the rest of us exactly what type of person/player you are. Yes, fly fly away little birdie, knowing that you're getting away before eve becomes complete desolate for you. I will do, as soon as I view Eve as not fun. It's ehading there but not there yet. Why am I a "little birdie" for stating my opinion however? Would I be a better eprson in your eyes if I continued paying for and playing a pointless game to keep up appearances? Edit; also, what type of person am I if I spell a word that I don't know how to spell phonetically?
Taylor timenenzi	Posted - 2009.01.19 20:21:00 - [37] Originally by: Gnomes Rock Originally by: Maren Maen You jokers really just don't get it do you... If you try to force people to play eve "your way" they'll just say fu and leave, and then you'll just be whining about not having unsuspecting noobcakes to shoot at while they're having fun in some other game. The real 'problem' is that you all are here whining instead of playing the game. Kinda surprising really since you people are supposed to be the tough guy "pvp" crowd and here you are, waaa waaa waaa'ing away. Yes, I find it amusing. Yes, I am a carebear. And yes, I've been suicide ganked since the last patch. That guy figured out how to do it; if you can't, I'll shed a tear for you if I can find a spare one. So because carebears are whiner pre-madonnas who are ascared of risking pixels in a game, everyone else has to follow their playstyle? Eventually, we'll just say FU and leave. Then CCP can be proud of their second-job isk grinding game. Theres no more low sec and null sec? or is concord now in those areas and shooting the evil pirates?
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2009.01.19 20:32:00 - [38] Originally by: Taylor timenenzi Theres no more low sec and null sec? or is concord now in those areas and shooting the evil pirates? It's far to easy to escape a fight you don't want to fight in low sec, with people mercilessly exploting logoffskis after jumping, the huge nerf to webifiers so people can just fly away, the need for a group because of the constant presence of cloaked falcons. You can go hours looking for a decent fight, and the one ship you find easily just walks away. Highsec is also incredibly rich compared to lowsec, so there's not much reason to risk it anyways. And nullsec is a joke, sov areas compete with constant blobs, all the alliances are stagnant unless you have a new backbone of experienced players with tons of isk and SP. (and yes, SP matters) It's also incredibly hard to protect your own space from cloakers, whether it be ratters or the anoying AFK-cloaker that can stay in system 23/7 with no possible recourse atm. I still find this game enjoyable, believe me. But you're kidding yourself if you think "pirates" have won as many game-design battles as "carebears" have.
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.19 20:43:00 - [39] Originally by: Gnomes Rock And nullsec is a joke, sov areas compete with constant blobs, all the alliances are stagnant unless you have a new backbone of experienced players with tons of isk and SP. (and yes, SP matters) It's also incredibly hard to protect your own space from cloakers, whether it be ratters or the anoying AFK-cloaker that can stay in system 23/7 with no possible recourse atm. And this is why highsec must remain a new player (and newbie at heart) wonderland. There must be some room in eve for solo and casual play. If highsec was turned into a warzone you KNOW the same powerblocks currently shutting you out of good 0.0 would also shut you out of good highsec. Mixing this whine in with the highsec whine torpedoes both points. I'm a bit upset that my playstyle got nerfed and that automated ice miners are now beyond my reach. But I understand the reasons for it and accept that overall eve is a better place with no "for lulz" suicide ganking. Even though it means I must now be a lot more creative and sneaky battling the RL drones. In conclusion, you have all of lowsec to have fight club in. Fight away!
Reaver One Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.19 20:45:00 - [40] I just loathe suicide ganking in every way. It's not because it has impacted me...never been ganked. It's not because I'm a hauler or a carebear...trying really hard to be a decent PvP pilot. It's not even because of the gank playstyle...EvE is a rough game and it should be. I hate it because it makes absolutely zero sense, and breaks immersion for me. First is the fact that no one, no matter how badly they needed isk, would sign on under a capsuleer that had a record of suiciding his ship over and over again. Gee, let's get on a boat that is guarenteed to blow up on its maiden voyage. Second, no sane government would allow this to go on, even for a second. The waste in materials and manpower is immense. The waste of CONCORD's time and energy (and materials) is immense. The damage to consumer and market confidence (if this activity were to take place in a real-world market) would be immense. I would be fine with governments and CONCORD issuing a privateer license within certain constraints. I would be fine with lowering CONCORD's response time and/or response levels in lowER sec systems (say .8 and below on a sliding scale). There are many ways to ensure that high-sec piracy could occur. I want EvE to be a dangerous game, as I'm sure most of us do. Suicide ganking, however, is the most nonsensical means to that end that I can think if, and I wish that it would be eliminated from the game. Quote: Some people are like slinkies, they dont really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2009.01.19 21:27:00 - [41] Originally by: Clair Bear And this is why highsec must remain a new player (and newbie at heart) wonderland. There must be some room in eve for solo and casual play. If highsec was turned into a warzone you KNOW the same powerblocks currently shutting you out of good 0.0 would also shut you out of good highsec. Mixing this whine in with the highsec whine torpedoes both points. I'm a bit upset that my playstyle got nerfed and that automated ice miners are now beyond my reach. But I understand the reasons for it and accept that overall eve is a better place with no "for lulz" suicide ganking. Even though it means I must now be a lot more creative and sneaky battling the RL drones. In conclusion, you have all of lowsec to have fight club in. Fight away! Yeah, i'm happy with it being a newbie safe haven. But i'm not happy with, for example, a guy joining a NPC corp, sticking to 0.8-1.0 space and being nigh on invulvnerable. Or the same thing, but with corps that exploit to avoid war decs. Or with the many, many macro miners that can operate with no repeatable recourse. Highsec should never be an isk printing safehouse. In my opinion.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2009.01.19 21:27:00 - [42] Originally by: Reaver One I just loathe suicide ganking in every way. It's not because it has impacted me...never been ganked. It's not because I'm a hauler or a carebear...trying really hard to be a decent PvP pilot. It's not even because of the gank playstyle...EvE is a rough game and it should be. I hate it because it makes absolutely zero sense, and breaks immersion for me. First is the fact that no one, no matter how badly they needed isk, would sign on under a capsuleer that had a record of suiciding his ship over and over again. Gee, let's get on a boat that is guarenteed to blow up on its maiden voyage. Second, no sane government would allow this to go on, even for a second. The waste in materials and manpower is immense. The waste of CONCORD's time and energy (and materials) is immense. The damage to consumer and market confidence (if this activity were to take place in a real-world market) would be immense. I would be fine with governments and CONCORD issuing a privateer license within certain constraints. I would be fine with lowering CONCORD's response time and/or response levels in lowER sec systems (say .8 and below on a sliding scale). There are many ways to ensure that high-sec piracy could occur. I want EvE to be a dangerous game, as I'm sure most of us do. Suicide ganking, however, is the most nonsensical means to that end that I can think if, and I wish that it would be eliminated from the game. maybe if war decs were viable, and the population didn't all dwell in uber safe npc corps, and war dec'd corps didn't instantly drain into pre made "emergency" corps, you wouldn't have suicide gankers
Taylor timenenzi	Posted - 2009.01.19 21:29:00 - [43] Edited by: Taylor timenenzi on 19/01/2009 21:31:24 Originally by: Gnomes Rock Originally by: Taylor timenenzi Theres no more low sec and null sec? or is concord now in those areas and shooting the evil pirates? It's far to easy to escape a fight you don't want to fight in low sec, with people mercilessly exploting logoffskis after jumping, the huge nerf to webifiers so people can just fly away, the need for a group because of the constant presence of cloaked falcons. You can go hours looking for a decent fight, and the one ship you find easily just walks away. Highsec is also incredibly rich compared to lowsec, so there's not much reason to risk it anyways. And nullsec is a joke, sov areas compete with constant blobs, all the alliances are stagnant unless you have a new backbone of experienced players with tons of isk and SP. (and yes, SP matters) It's also incredibly hard to protect your own space from cloakers, whether it be ratters or the anoying AFK-cloaker that can stay in system 23/7 with no possible recourse atm. I still find this game enjoyable, believe me. But you're kidding yourself if you think "pirates" have won as many game-design battles as "carebears" have. Oh so your saying there are still large expansive areas that outlaws can run around shooting people at will but since its harder and those people out there will actualy shoot back and bring a fight to your door its not acceptable? That its too hard? That you cant do it? When did CCP drag you into high sec and say you must fight here? That you must PvP here? That high sec is the only place your allowed to fight in? Now ive tried it all in eve. Mining, yarring and ganking noobs, missions, industrial, researcher, and missioning. I did the suicide gank that hauler with a few hundred million worth of stuff in his hold twice. It disgusted me how easy it was and how much could be made, and then fell out my chair laughing because the people that defend that life style love to bring up the risk vs reward bs. There was more risk running lvl4's in a faction fitted faction BS. CCP has forced a evolution on the high sec pirates (the carebear pirates since they dont wanna leave highsec either) adapt or die. Now it takes a gang of people working together to get it done. Oh well this is and has always been circluar argument. If you pvp in high sec your as much a carebear as those you call carebears. Edit: not really as shot at you sorry I just went on a rant. Also wardecs need a good reworking imho
Ticondrius	Posted - 2009.01.19 21:53:00 - [44] Edited by: Ticondrius on 19/01/2009 21:53:50 Originally by: Zeba Where is Khemul and his dead horse gif when you need it. I'm not Khemul, but here you go: CCP, can we PLEASE have this added to the forum smilies? We'd use it so often... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- PROPOSAL: Chaos Incarnate's Face MMORPG: Many Men Online Role Playing Girls
Onyx Celestia	Posted - 2009.01.19 22:13:00 - [45] It always makes me laugh when gankers whine about not being able to gank hapless newbies or helpless industrialists. Obviously they can't hack the "real" PvP of low sec and 0.0 or they'd be down there doing it instead of whining. I have played a lot of MMORPGs over the years, but never have I seen a PvP player base so downright nasty to the hand that feeds-- without industrialists and manufacturers, you wouldn't have ships to fly, so wake up. And go face the real PvPers in low sec and 0.0 who can actually fight back, or sheddep.
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak	Posted - 2009.01.19 22:26:00 - [46] Originally by: Shibbykiko Why not just get rid of concord and make it so you can't lock other people in empire? Thats where this game seems to be heading, it's becoming zone based PvP because care bears are so adamant about have 0 RISK even if it means almost 0 reward. I don't understand why my play style is being forced to change, because people are so anti pvp in a pvp game? (And by my play style I mean actually having the option of attacking and killing some body in empire if I think they are an enemy logistics corp) I remember starting this game years ago, and there was actually threat that you could be blown up everywhere you went... now its basically none in empire what so ever. It makes the game bland and boring. So CCP, why is this cold dark evil pvp game, a warm fuzzy carebear land everywhere thats not low/null sec? And why is there so much reward with absolutely 0 risk? Long story short, Nerf Empire, Nerf Bear rewards, buff 0.0 and low sec so people go there and can be shot. Except that won't work. The more you increase impact of the risk, the less likely people will be prepared to face the chance of that risk occurring. If you nerf Empire, say by reducing the ISK available there then players will stay in Empire longer to ensure they have sufficient ISK to PVP. For example - lets say it takes 2 months of solid play in Empire (through missions, mining etc etc) to buy a HAC. Now - will you risk this HAC by venturing into Low Sec? How much would the reward in Low Sec need to be to justify flying that HAC into Low Sec? Alone? Ok - so you don't go alone, how many players would you bring with you? 5? 10? 100? Now, consider FW. Essentially zero reward, BUT you can pvp for almost zero risk to your bank balance (by using cheap T1 ships). Result = plenty of players are prepared to participate in pvp. Hence the argument to just nerf high sec and buff low sec is deeply flawed at a fundamental level. C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
Demitria Fernir Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.19 22:29:00 - [47] Halve the Isk Reward in empire. Double it in Low-sec. Triple it in 0.0 Implement Rats AI Nerf Cloaking in 0.0 Nerf Courier Missions in Low-sec Heavily Nerf LP Store There you have, balance. _______________________________________________ 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.19 22:55:00 - [48] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Shibbykiko Why not just get rid of concord and make it so you can't lock other people in empire? Thats where this game seems to be heading, it's becoming zone based PvP because care bears are so adamant about have 0 RISK even if it means almost 0 reward. I don't understand why my play style is being forced to change, because people are so anti pvp in a pvp game? (And by my play style I mean actually having the option of attacking and killing some body in empire if I think they are an enemy logistics corp) I remember starting this game years ago, and there was actually threat that you could be blown up everywhere you went... now its basically none in empire what so ever. It makes the game bland and boring. So CCP, why is this cold dark evil pvp game, a warm fuzzy carebear land everywhere thats not low/null sec? And why is there so much reward with absolutely 0 risk? Long story short, Nerf Empire, Nerf Bear rewards, buff 0.0 and low sec so people go there and can be shot. Except that won't work. The more you increase impact of the risk, the less likely people will be prepared to face the chance of that risk occurring. If you nerf Empire, say by reducing the ISK available there then players will stay in Empire longer to ensure they have sufficient ISK to PVP. C. ~citation needed
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.19 23:02:00 - [49] Edited by: Clair Bear on 19/01/2009 23:02:01 Originally by: Cailais Except that won't work. The more you increase impact of the risk, the less likely people will be prepared to face the chance of that risk occurring. If you nerf Empire, say by reducing the ISK available there then players will stay in Empire longer to ensure they have sufficient ISK to PVP. Who says all PvP must be done in blobs of t2 ships with 3 billion ISK of implants? Very few people PvP in officer fit faction ships because of cost. If ISK firehoses are toned down, and I mean WAAAAY down you'll once again see a larger variety of ships being fielded. Including t1 cruiser hulls by people with more than a million SP. That's why you see people flying cheap junk in FW. The bar is artificially lowered because many plexes simply won't let the larger, more expensive hardware in. If it were possible to omgwtfpwnzorize FW participants 23x7 by outspending them you would see FW systems as empty as the rest of lowsec.
Moroder	Posted - 2009.01.19 23:08:00 - [50] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Bish Ounen Ganking carebears who can't possibly fight back != "PVP" Just as "Shooting fish in a barrel" != "Fishing" have you ever actually been fishing? Do you know how most fish are caught? THIS
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.19 23:12:00 - [51] ITT: People who think a sandbox game shouldn't be played like a sandbox, it should only be played their way. From both sides of the argument.
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2009.01.19 23:24:00 - [52] Originally by: Jmanis Catharg ITT: People who think a sandbox game shouldn't be played like a sandbox, it should only be played their way. From both sides of the argument. Yeah, I cant understand why gankbears should care about what carebears do. carebears certainly doesnt say much about nerfing 0.0/whatever. in fact, highsec people are what CCP want to keep, they dont whine much as long as they can grind grind grin. and they pay CCP rather long so long as they can grind... while gankbears are nerf this nerf that, OMG EMORAGE FAKEQUIT... and ****ing in everybody's sand... heres what I recommend to the people who cant find pvp: Go to 0.0 with your buddies, threaten a POS... profit and pvp (assuming you win..)
Spurty Caldari Technologic Dance	Posted - 2009.01.19 23:37:00 - [53] yeah ccp should remove all science and industry from the game, after all its not as if making ships, ammo and mods is important right? BrRAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiNNNNNNZzzzzzzzzzzz
Captain Pompous	Posted - 2009.01.20 00:10:00 - [54] Originally by: Dirk Magnum I hope that if the day of PvP reckoning comes that CCP has the decency to implement OP's suggestion. Having CONCORD remain in-game when no one actually has a chance of successfully suiciding anyone with anything would serve only to mock older players. When that day comes, I shall be dancing around the maypole with ribbons aplenty as older players weep in vexed frustration -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Jhagiti Tyran Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2009.01.20 00:28:00 - [55] Originally by: Cailais Except that won't work. The more you increase impact of the risk, the less likely people will be prepared to face the chance of that risk occurring. If you nerf Empire, say by reducing the ISK available there then players will stay in Empire longer to ensure they have sufficient ISK to PVP. For example - lets say it takes 2 months of solid play in Empire (through missions, mining etc etc) to buy a HAC. Now - will you risk this HAC by venturing into Low Sec? How much would the reward in Low Sec need to be to justify flying that HAC into Low Sec? Alone? Ok - so you don't go alone, how many players would you bring with you? 5? 10? 100? Now, consider FW. Essentially zero reward, BUT you can pvp for almost zero risk to your bank balance (by using cheap T1 ships). Result = plenty of players are prepared to participate in pvp. Hence the argument to just nerf high sec and buff low sec is deeply flawed at a fundamental level. C. This has some truth to an extent but if you examine games that have pvp with almost zero risk (no death penalty etc) the amount of whining is around the same it just uses different excuses.
Irida Mershkov Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.01.20 00:50:00 - [56] Bit late but..
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.01.20 09:12:00 - [57] Another thing to add to this is if you leave a player ran corp and go to your second stage NPC corp, those can be war decced by other second tier NPC corps that have a grievance with the dealing of other NPC corps. Add in some news articles about how Ishukone wants part of Lai Dai's market share of the vast veldspar fields they lay claim over and will take them by "any means necessary". Let the war drag on for a few months and then write up a new story involving different corps at war. I mean why should only the player ran corps war dec each other when the huge NPC corps have a much more invested interest in the dealing of New Eden?
Empress Elissa	Posted - 2009.01.20 10:09:00 - [58] Originally by: Shibbykiko Why not just get rid of concord and make it so you can't lock other people in empire? Thats where this game seems to be heading, it's becoming zone based PvP because care bears are so adamant about have 0 RISK even if it means almost 0 reward. I don't understand why my play style is being forced to change, because people are so anti pvp in a pvp game? (And by my play style I mean actually having the option of attacking and killing some body in empire if I think they are an enemy logistics corp) I remember starting this game years ago, and there was actually threat that you could be blown up everywhere you went... now its basically none in empire what so ever. It makes the game bland and boring. So CCP, why is this cold dark evil pvp game, a warm fuzzy carebear land everywhere thats not low/null sec? And why is there so much reward with absolutely 0 risk? Long story short, Nerf Empire, Nerf Bear rewards, buff 0.0 and low sec so people go there and can be shot. I just find it hilarious that all these "so called" PvP'rs are moaning about not being able to shoot non-PvP players? I mean, why, are you not good enough to be able to shoot other PvP'rs? I guess you always pick on the smaller kids, because you'd get your ass whupped by the other big bad bullies?
Jojo Redana	Posted - 2009.01.20 11:10:00 - [59] Someone is not getting Eve. It's more than pvp. You need someone to build your ships. Shooting newbies and calling that pvp.. It's like Wow where lvl80 toons whipe out lvl5 toons, and they feel they are yber pvper's. Now on i'm gonna call me "roid killer". I'm shooting roids with my strip miner. Why you're playing my "roid killing" game if you want to pvp? Lol, pvp'ers.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.20 11:14:00 - [60] Originally by: Zeba Where is Khemul and his dead horse gif when you need it. Do you one better: My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 11:16:00 - [61] I still see people running around with billions in their untanked hauler cargo holds.
eliminator2 Gallente Young Enterprise Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2009.01.20 11:17:00 - [62] agreed this game is meant to be risk v reward but for carebears its just reward which is not how eve is meant to be i suggest people join darkfall when that comes out since it has full loot full pvp no safe areas
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.20 11:18:00 - [63] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/01/2009 11:18:57 Now a question for those saying carebears have it 0 risk: When someone says that EVE is consensual PVP, don't you lot say "you're safe nowhere!" My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.20 11:23:00 - [64] Originally by: Shibbykiko Why not just get rid of concord and make it so you can't lock other people in empire? Thats where this game seems to be heading, it's becoming zone based PvP because care bears are so adamant about have 0 RISK even if it means almost 0 reward. I don't understand why my play style is being forced to change, because people are so anti pvp in a pvp game? (And by my play style I mean actually having the option of attacking and killing some body in empire if I think they are an enemy logistics corp) I remember starting this game years ago, and there was actually threat that you could be blown up everywhere you went... now its basically none in empire what so ever. It makes the game bland and boring. So CCP, why is this cold dark evil pvp game, a warm fuzzy carebear land everywhere thats not low/null sec? And why is there so much reward with absolutely 0 risk? Long story short, Nerf Empire, Nerf Bear rewards, buff 0.0 and low sec so people go there and can be shot. "buff 0.0". hehe, have you been to 0.0? Its pretty good I will tell ya, far better then empire in terms or rewards vs risks. More risks and more rewards that is. Empire is fine, its a nice place for thoose who like a calmer game, and for thoose who trades and suchs. Its never 100% safe, and never should be, that woul ruin the game. And war declerations? Go do it against someone that actually got a few members and can put up a fight, otherwise you are gonna run around empire chasing shuttles. Fun! Low sec pirating? Its fine, you get a bigger sec hit, but who cares? And if you really don't want to decent to quickly, just don't pod. But podding is fun, and seeing people angry can be fun, tho I perfer thay are civil about it, it is after all a game, not your real life. So before you make any more comments, I suggest you avtaully go play the game, or go back to WoW.
Trakidar Jr	Posted - 2009.01.20 11:47:00 - [65] I am not a PVP'er. Never was. I guess you could call me a carebear. I like to mine, build and trade, if I feel like shooting stuff, I look for a Security agent and run some missions (with the added benefit that I get standing). Play EVE for 3 years now, on and off. And it's quite funny that I usually take a break after being blown up and podded in high sec while mining in a barge with no guns at all. Not once was I attacked while flying a fighting ship. Not once. Funny thing is, a couple of times I even dared the perpetrator to make a jump or 2 and meet in low sec for a real PVP fight. Has any of these so called PVP'ers ever joined in at low sec? I don't think I need to tell you that the answer is: NO! This is not an offence to REAL PVP'ers. But I think that most of those don't come to the forums crying kill Concord. PVPing Asteroid belts since 2005. OH WAIT!!!!!
Useless alt	Posted - 2009.01.20 12:14:00 - [66] Edited by: Useless alt on 20/01/2009 12:16:49 Oh, boy a long list of tears and cries. Suicide ganking is not a game style it is a pest to anyone in the game. I mean here youa are in a worthless shuttle with no cargo just moving from one system to the next and poof back in the station where you started because some "pirate" let rip his smartbombs of doom... that does not add anything to the game nor does it benefit anyone other then the 14 year old having a party in his pants seeing someone else loose a ship. As for real PvP in high sec yes it can be done in a war, no it cannot bedone when the other party does not want to fight... why not? Look at your own post and see how upset you are that your "play style" as you call it is forced to change. That is why people should be able to avoid wars and not get in them without actually wanting to. The thing that disturbes me most about you and other self proclaimed "pirates" is that you seem to prefer blowing up ships that have no means of defending them selfs. And you get offended when anyone calls you a coward... if you are such a great pirate why do you insist on CCP supplying you with an endless string of easy targets? Why don't you learn how to PvP and go out to actually fight some one? Oh I know that is not your play style your play style is sitting at a gate blowing up random defenceless ships hoping they drop something that is worth more then your ship...
Gonada Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 12:16:00 - [67] look ma, yet another carebear whiner post to destroy the game! Please, jump into traffic
Karii Ildarian Caldari M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.01.20 12:43:00 - [68] Here is the fix: 1. Remove Concord, only faction Navies, no change to current Faction Navy mechanics. 2. Make bounty system solely based on illegal acts, NPC generated. 3. These bounties may be worked off, by the player, using the same mechanic as is currently used to regain sec status. 4. Upon being podded, the criminal loses the number of SP equal to the bounty, in ISK, on his head at the time.
Exlegion Caldari New Light	Posted - 2009.01.20 12:50:00 - [69] Originally by: Gnomes Rock So because carebears are whiner pre-madonnas who are ascared of risking pixels in a game, everyone else has to follow their playstyle? Eventually, we'll just say FU and leave. Then CCP can be proud of their second-job isk grinding game. I see this being said over and over again by a few and it just isn't true. Stop trying to associate whiners with carebears. Non-carebears whine just as much. If you want to seem objective you must count all whines, not just those that you don't benefit from. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Exlegion Caldari New Light	Posted - 2009.01.20 12:58:00 - [70] Edited by: Exlegion on 20/01/2009 13:01:03 Originally by: Moroder Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Bish Ounen Ganking carebears who can't possibly fight back != "PVP" Just as "Shooting fish in a barrel" != "Fishing" have you ever actually been fishing? Do you know how most fish are caught? THIS Eve is about Risk vs Reward. If you're looking for a game more akin to easy fishing (ie, with one net catching loads of fish) Eve is not the game for you. If you don't like empire, then try low sec or even 0.0, where the rewards are better. Careful though, as players do tend to shoot back. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
The Tzar Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2009.01.20 13:28:00 - [71] Originally by: Maren Maen You jokers really just don't get it do you... If you try to force people to play eve "your way" they'll just say fu and leave, and then you'll just be whining about not having unsuspecting noobcakes to shoot at while they're having fun in some other game. The real 'problem' is that you all are here whining instead of playing the game. Kinda surprising really since you people are supposed to be the tough guy "pvp" crowd and here you are, waaa waaa waaa'ing away. Yes, I find it amusing. Yes, I am a carebear. And yes, I've been suicide ganked since the last patch. That guy figured out how to do it; if you can't, I'll shed a tear for you if I can find a spare one. I think the argument is that the carebears had enough protection before the QR agility/concord buff. Now it is almost essential to have a triple boosted HIC to catch anything sub-BS size without a bubble. Contrary to what you have posted I'm almost positive that the 'tough guy pvp crowd' prefer to have engagements against other 'tough guys' rather than 'unsuspecting noobcakes'. I for one would like the latter types to do as you suggest and for them to say fu and leave. They do nothing but slowly turn one of the last bastions of MMOPVP into another 'lets see how much gold i can make' game. Is empire not enough for those that wish lowrisk? Does the tutorial not warn new players of the risks involved with the different sec status of systems? Are there not modules to help you escape from said 'tough guys'? Can you not, as the tough guys do, fly with protection and comrades? I have nothing in the slightest against players who don't wish to PvP. The other areas of the game are as essential to the EvE economy as PvP is. The fact that PvP has seen nerf after nerf after nerf (apart from scripted HIC's) and carebear automated/computer controlled protection has seen buff after buff shows an alarmingly WOW-like trend. I wait for the day when EWAR is changed to some sort of spell that the pilot casts... WEAK!!! __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________
Yarod Cool Team JAVELIN Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2009.01.20 16:07:00 - [72] Originally by: The Tzar Contrary to what you have posted I'm almost positive that the 'tough guy pvp crowd' prefer to have engagements against other 'tough guys' rather than 'unsuspecting noobcakes'. The type that go looking for PVP in highsec are not looking for other "tough guys." Trust me.
Onyx Celestia	Posted - 2009.01.20 16:20:00 - [73] "PvPers" are in 0.0 and low sec, hunting targets who can fight back. "Gankers looking for defenseless targets" go after industrialists and new players in empire. See the difference? And then they have the nerve to put down carebears, who, when they are looking for a PvP fight, join FW instead (at least it's a fair fight between sides that are both flying fighting ships). I think we can see that CCP has things under control, though, and silly whines about removing Concord have been ignored all these years for a reason: There is already PvP a-plenty in FW, low sec and 0.0 for those who are looking for the real thing. End of story.
Mikalya Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.01.20 16:21:00 - [74] Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Napro Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.20 16:27:00 - [75] Originally by: Gnomes Rock So because carebears are whiner pre-madonnas who are ascared of risking pixels in a game, everyone else has to follow their playstyle? Eventually, we'll just say FU and leave. Then CCP can be proud of their second-job isk grinding game. Yeah... or just move to low-sec and quit whining?
Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.01.20 20:05:00 - [76] Originally by: Onyx Celestia "PvPers" are in 0.0 and low sec, hunting targets who can fight back. "Gankers looking for defenseless targets" go after industrialists and new players in empire. See the difference? And then they have the nerve to put down carebears, who, when they are looking for a PvP fight, join FW instead (at least it's a fair fight between sides that are both flying fighting ships). I think we can see that CCP has things under control, though, and silly whines about removing Concord have been ignored all these years for a reason: There is already PvP a-plenty in FW, low sec and 0.0 for those who are looking for the real thing. End of story. /thread tbqfh Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2009.01.20 20:26:00 - [77] Most "PVP" corps/alliances are nothing more then, "hey we rule, we just sat on a gate and ganked that hauler with 30-50 ships..." The act of FINDING a target, being sneaky enough to nab them before they: A: warp B: cloak C: log Then killing it quick enough before their buddies come in with way more numbers is much more of a "pvp" experience then what most of these "gank bears" call pvp. Nothing is more thrilling then getting around a massive gate camp in 0.0 hostile territory and killing 1, 2, or 5 of their corp/alliance mates before they realize wtf just happened and chase your ass 10 jumps while you are laughing your butt off. Or using strategy in an empire war to defeat WAAAAAY more targets with ECM advantage and dps advantage and have them scream bloody murder that it's unfair because you have more skill points when it was actually the tactics that won the fight. Gank bears, get rid of them and this game will improve.

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