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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 29/07/2004 05:08:19
I mainly ask this since I seem to spend far too much time in one so it is of some personal concern and partly since I am not sure I have ever seen a thread talking about them (although quite possible I missed it).
Yes, haulers are the dull and boring ships of EVE. However, despite their dullness they are a class of ship we all use at some point or another. Hauling 7 mil of trit 12j to where you want to build a new battleship is a pain in a hauler. In any other ship the attempt doesn't really bear thinking about.
I am writing this thread asking for honest opinions. I am of two minds on them and having trouble reconciling a good middle ground that makes EVE better overall.
1) On the one hand haulers are stunningly easy to gank. Yes, a good hauler can get away if lucky/prepared/gankers are asleep and the hauler has instajumps. Mostly they just die when a competent person in an Ibis or better goes after one (only kinda kidding about the Ibis).
2) On the other hand haulers should be stunningly easy to gank. I mean, they are space trucks afterall. They aren't supposed to be armored like a battleship or as nimble as a frigate.
Is there any way to lessen the gap between these two extremes that makes sense?
For instance, many here on the forums agitate for the removal of instajumps and CCP seems to be mulling the idea over. What little chance haulers have of getting by trouble today exists solely in the use of instajumps and even then haulers are nowhere near untouchable (as I've learned the hard way).
To be clear I am not suggesting unstoppable haulers either but therein lies the dilemma. How do you make them have some chance via skill and ship stats to get a cargo through while still being reasonably stoppable by pirates/enemies?
Note this is not some carebear whine but face it...as it stands only the terminally stupid move anything highly valuable in a hauler (I know...some still do but on the whole most know better). There was a thread not too long ago where some pirate stopped ganking a Tempest he had near dead to switch to shooting a hauler that showed up. Tempest got away because he switched to the hauler. Lesson to be had here is most everyone loves shooting haulers first and foremost. On Chaos awhile back some people tested running haulers (without instajumps) through a gate camp. Number of haulers that made the gate? Zero (despite all sorts of escort tactics).
The more survivable a hauler is the more likely they will bother carrying more valuable cargo in places they might get ganked. So, carebears feel better at getting the hauler through in one piece and pirates/enemies have a better chance at more valuable loot.
Any ideas? Is there a better balance to be had or is it as good as it will get with haulers?
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:02:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 29/07/2004 05:08:19
I mainly ask this since I seem to spend far too much time in one so it is of some personal concern and partly since I am not sure I have ever seen a thread talking about them (although quite possible I missed it).
Yes, haulers are the dull and boring ships of EVE. However, despite their dullness they are a class of ship we all use at some point or another. Hauling 7 mil of trit 12j to where you want to build a new battleship is a pain in a hauler. In any other ship the attempt doesn't really bear thinking about.
I am writing this thread asking for honest opinions. I am of two minds on them and having trouble reconciling a good middle ground that makes EVE better overall.
1) On the one hand haulers are stunningly easy to gank. Yes, a good hauler can get away if lucky/prepared/gankers are asleep and the hauler has instajumps. Mostly they just die when a competent person in an Ibis or better goes after one (only kinda kidding about the Ibis).
2) On the other hand haulers should be stunningly easy to gank. I mean, they are space trucks afterall. They aren't supposed to be armored like a battleship or as nimble as a frigate.
Is there any way to lessen the gap between these two extremes that makes sense?
For instance, many here on the forums agitate for the removal of instajumps and CCP seems to be mulling the idea over. What little chance haulers have of getting by trouble today exists solely in the use of instajumps and even then haulers are nowhere near untouchable (as I've learned the hard way).
To be clear I am not suggesting unstoppable haulers either but therein lies the dilemma. How do you make them have some chance via skill and ship stats to get a cargo through while still being reasonably stoppable by pirates/enemies?
Note this is not some carebear whine but face it...as it stands only the terminally stupid move anything highly valuable in a hauler (I know...some still do but on the whole most know better). There was a thread not too long ago where some pirate stopped ganking a Tempest he had near dead to switch to shooting a hauler that showed up. Tempest got away because he switched to the hauler. Lesson to be had here is most everyone loves shooting haulers first and foremost. On Chaos awhile back some people tested running haulers (without instajumps) through a gate camp. Number of haulers that made the gate? Zero (despite all sorts of escort tactics).
The more survivable a hauler is the more likely they will bother carrying more valuable cargo in places they might get ganked. So, carebears feel better at getting the hauler through in one piece and pirates/enemies have a better chance at more valuable loot.
Any ideas? Is there a better balance to be had or is it as good as it will get with haulers?
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:05:00 -
[3]
Haulers should be nerfed so that they can only carry megacyte and zydrine and so that nothign else can carry megacyte/zydrine  
................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:05:00 -
[4]
Haulers should be nerfed so that they can only carry megacyte and zydrine and so that nothign else can carry megacyte/zydrine
................. |
Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:09:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Cruz
Haulers should be nerfed so that they can only carry megacyte and zydrine and so that nothign else can carry megacyte/zydrine
hehe
I have seen a few threads recently where some lucky pirate came across a hauler with tens of thousands of units of Mega/Zyd aboard. Must be like pirates of old coming across the Spanish gold ships.
General opinoin though is anyone stupid enough to move Mega/Zyd in a hauler pretty much deserves to get ganked and I tend to agree as things stand now.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:09:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Cruz
Haulers should be nerfed so that they can only carry megacyte and zydrine and so that nothign else can carry megacyte/zydrine
hehe
I have seen a few threads recently where some lucky pirate came across a hauler with tens of thousands of units of Mega/Zyd aboard. Must be like pirates of old coming across the Spanish gold ships.
General opinoin though is anyone stupid enough to move Mega/Zyd in a hauler pretty much deserves to get ganked and I tend to agree as things stand now.
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Lucian Alucard
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:24:00 -
[7]
Well on one hand I am of the mind haulers should have a minimum of low slots. Meaning no few then X number of low slots. Low slots save lives. Think on it. Warp core stabs and cap relays are the main stay mods of hauling. The more u have the less likely u are to get ganked. Also why isn't there another Amarr indy? Do the Amarr get no love?
On the other hand if things are done to make indys harder to gank then I will soon be out of a job. YES I AM A BUNNY KILLER!
Please stop being a third rate flamer,I am tired of reactivating my account just to kick your ass. |
Lucian Alucard
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:24:00 -
[8]
Well on one hand I am of the mind haulers should have a minimum of low slots. Meaning no few then X number of low slots. Low slots save lives. Think on it. Warp core stabs and cap relays are the main stay mods of hauling. The more u have the less likely u are to get ganked. Also why isn't there another Amarr indy? Do the Amarr get no love?
On the other hand if things are done to make indys harder to gank then I will soon be out of a job. YES I AM A BUNNY KILLER!
Please stop being a third rate flamer,I am tired of reactivating my account just to kick your ass. |
Feaux Tomai
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lucian Alucard
Also why isn't there another Amarr indy? Do the Amarr get no love?
If you can haul slaves in it, you can haul anything.
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Feaux Tomai
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lucian Alucard
Also why isn't there another Amarr indy? Do the Amarr get no love?
If you can haul slaves in it, you can haul anything.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:36:00 -
[11]
Indy's do need love.
1. More high slots. This will allow them to fit more miner laser's. Low power output, low speed and agility, low armor and shield will prevent them to become destroyer class cruiser.
2. Drone bay's. Small one's, 300m3 max. to give them some defence.
3. New module type's for a medium slot, passive one to boost speed. Or ajust existing ones to be on medium slots.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:36:00 -
[12]
Indy's do need love.
1. More high slots. This will allow them to fit more miner laser's. Low power output, low speed and agility, low armor and shield will prevent them to become destroyer class cruiser.
2. Drone bay's. Small one's, 300m3 max. to give them some defence.
3. New module type's for a medium slot, passive one to boost speed. Or ajust existing ones to be on medium slots.
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juduzz
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Posted - 2004.07.29 06:11:00 -
[13]
Indies dont need any luuuvin,
there supposed to be slow/unagile plus setem up and you can wtfpwn most ceptors/frigs with them. ( just dont get krulls of CDI doing it or he will sing BADGER BADGER while he is on TS 0_o )
Want more protection TBH then the pilot should take an escort.
Want more speed change exspanders for speed mods and AB's.
Thats myy opinion.
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juduzz
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Posted - 2004.07.29 06:11:00 -
[14]
Indies dont need any luuuvin,
there supposed to be slow/unagile plus setem up and you can wtfpwn most ceptors/frigs with them. ( just dont get krulls of CDI doing it or he will sing BADGER BADGER while he is on TS 0_o )
Want more protection TBH then the pilot should take an escort.
Want more speed change exspanders for speed mods and AB's.
Thats myy opinion.
----------------------------------------------
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Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.07.29 06:13:00 -
[15]
also the fact that there is exactly one hauler that is clearly the best in all respects needs to change. if you haul a lot, you get the iteronv. period. the only ship thats better in a way is the badger 2, as it can survive a tad better. or the mammoth because it actually looks cool, and not like a phallus.
imagine if one bs was so far above the rest no others were worth getting. people would howl.
btw... i think that haulers should get more options to protect themselves. i have plenty of spare cash lying around... i would pay top dollar for a bs class hauler rather than the cruiser classes we have now. second post down in the link under my thread has my take on this subject.
My Idea Thread
Give Drones Love! |
Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.07.29 06:13:00 -
[16]
also the fact that there is exactly one hauler that is clearly the best in all respects needs to change. if you haul a lot, you get the iteronv. period. the only ship thats better in a way is the badger 2, as it can survive a tad better. or the mammoth because it actually looks cool, and not like a phallus.
imagine if one bs was so far above the rest no others were worth getting. people would howl.
btw... i think that haulers should get more options to protect themselves. i have plenty of spare cash lying around... i would pay top dollar for a bs class hauler rather than the cruiser classes we have now. second post down in the link under my thread has my take on this subject.
My Idea Thread
Give Drones Love! |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.07.29 06:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cutter John
also the fact that there is exactly one hauler that is clearly the best in all respects needs to change. if you haul a lot, you get the iteronv. period. the only ship thats better in a way is the badger 2, as it can survive a tad better. or the mammoth because it actually looks cool, and not like a phallus.
imagine if one bs was so far above the rest no others were worth getting. people would howl.
btw... i think that haulers should get more options to protect themselves. i have plenty of spare cash lying around... i would pay top dollar for a bs class hauler rather than the cruiser classes we have now. second post down in the link under my thread has my take on this subject.
EHH?? Dont forget an iteron mark V takes 40 or so days to train for... thats a hell of a long time for just one indy when a mammoth/badger2/bestower will do...
Plus mammoth looks cool because it should have been a BS
................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.07.29 06:42:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cutter John
also the fact that there is exactly one hauler that is clearly the best in all respects needs to change. if you haul a lot, you get the iteronv. period. the only ship thats better in a way is the badger 2, as it can survive a tad better. or the mammoth because it actually looks cool, and not like a phallus.
imagine if one bs was so far above the rest no others were worth getting. people would howl.
btw... i think that haulers should get more options to protect themselves. i have plenty of spare cash lying around... i would pay top dollar for a bs class hauler rather than the cruiser classes we have now. second post down in the link under my thread has my take on this subject.
EHH?? Dont forget an iteron mark V takes 40 or so days to train for... thats a hell of a long time for just one indy when a mammoth/badger2/bestower will do...
Plus mammoth looks cool because it should have been a BS
................. |
Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 07:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: juduzz
Want more protection TBH then the pilot should take an escort.
Want more speed change exspanders for speed mods and AB's.
Escorts are close to worthless for a hauler. Most anything can gank the hauler in a few shots and then probably still be able to run away from your escort (or fight them or whatever).
Scouts can be useful inasmuch as they can tell the hauler to run.
I don't mind that they are slow (ok...don't like it but understandable and what I would expect so no issues there).
Hmmm...maybe an escort feature unique to haulers. If the hauler gangs other ships the hauler gains a noticeable shield bonus and/or speed boost and/or cap charge boost. Effectively this takes the place of mods but makes it so your friends don't have to target you and engage mods by which time the hauler may well be dead anyway.
The downside should be the ships the hauler gangs drop their max speed to the hauler's speed. All ships in gang warp at 3 AU/s. Perhaps the escorts lose 10% (or whatever) of their shields that they are "giving" to the hauler.
This would leave solo haulers the way they are which is the bulk of hauling anyway but open possibilities for escorts to help. You might even see escorts for higher since they would actually be useful.
Just thinking out loud.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 07:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: juduzz
Want more protection TBH then the pilot should take an escort.
Want more speed change exspanders for speed mods and AB's.
Escorts are close to worthless for a hauler. Most anything can gank the hauler in a few shots and then probably still be able to run away from your escort (or fight them or whatever).
Scouts can be useful inasmuch as they can tell the hauler to run.
I don't mind that they are slow (ok...don't like it but understandable and what I would expect so no issues there).
Hmmm...maybe an escort feature unique to haulers. If the hauler gangs other ships the hauler gains a noticeable shield bonus and/or speed boost and/or cap charge boost. Effectively this takes the place of mods but makes it so your friends don't have to target you and engage mods by which time the hauler may well be dead anyway.
The downside should be the ships the hauler gangs drop their max speed to the hauler's speed. All ships in gang warp at 3 AU/s. Perhaps the escorts lose 10% (or whatever) of their shields that they are "giving" to the hauler.
This would leave solo haulers the way they are which is the bulk of hauling anyway but open possibilities for escorts to help. You might even see escorts for higher since they would actually be useful.
Just thinking out loud.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 08:35:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Maric on 29/07/2004 08:46:19
Edited by: Maric on 29/07/2004 08:39:24
First of all, we need one thing clear:
Are indy transport ships or are they industrial?
If they are transport ships only, then there is nothing to do, they can be nerfed and nobody will noticed (IE smaller CPU output, lesser med/hi slots).
If they are industrial, then there is a huge job to do!
When I say industrial I mean producing stuff, minning stuff, reprocessing stuff, researching stuff - a micro station. Mobile rafineries, mobile factories, mobile labs, minning lasers with everything fitted on slots and done in cargobay with help science graduates, slaves, homeless people. This is industrial for me. Thats the way to make this game more interesting for nonfighting people.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 08:35:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Maric on 29/07/2004 08:46:19
Edited by: Maric on 29/07/2004 08:39:24
First of all, we need one thing clear:
Are indy transport ships or are they industrial?
If they are transport ships only, then there is nothing to do, they can be nerfed and nobody will noticed (IE smaller CPU output, lesser med/hi slots).
If they are industrial, then there is a huge job to do!
When I say industrial I mean producing stuff, minning stuff, reprocessing stuff, researching stuff - a micro station. Mobile rafineries, mobile factories, mobile labs, minning lasers with everything fitted on slots and done in cargobay with help science graduates, slaves, homeless people. This is industrial for me. Thats the way to make this game more interesting for nonfighting people.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2004.07.29 08:45:00 -
[23]
They are transport.
Forget about having your indy build you a BS, get back to mining already.
Industrials are balanced quite well imo. They shoul be reasonably vulnerable unescorted, and they are.
It's people feeling hte need for 5 27% expanders on their indy that makes em vulnerable. Some of them can actually take quite a beating for a ship that size if equipped defensively.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2004.07.29 08:45:00 -
[24]
They are transport.
Forget about having your indy build you a BS, get back to mining already.
Industrials are balanced quite well imo. They shoul be reasonably vulnerable unescorted, and they are.
It's people feeling hte need for 5 27% expanders on their indy that makes em vulnerable. Some of them can actually take quite a beating for a ship that size if equipped defensively.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Lusiphur
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Posted - 2004.07.29 08:47:00 -
[25]
I think that speed/defense wise haulers are probably where they should be. They are meant to be slow and they are meant to be vulnerable.
The only thing I would change is to up the cargo space on the Mammoth/Bestower/Badger 2 a bit to make them more viable alternatives to the Iteron V.
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Lusiphur
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Posted - 2004.07.29 08:47:00 -
[26]
I think that speed/defense wise haulers are probably where they should be. They are meant to be slow and they are meant to be vulnerable.
The only thing I would change is to up the cargo space on the Mammoth/Bestower/Badger 2 a bit to make them more viable alternatives to the Iteron V.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 08:55:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Maric on 29/07/2004 09:07:33
Originally by: Rod Blaine
...
They shoul be reasonably vulnerable unescorted, and they are.
Dont thik You read my post carefuly. I was not talking about fighting in indy.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
They are transport.
Well, if CCP think so, (and most likely they do) this is end of story for me. Lets just everybody go to 0.0 to shoot each other. Yet another CS clone   
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 08:55:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Maric on 29/07/2004 09:07:33
Originally by: Rod Blaine
...
They shoul be reasonably vulnerable unescorted, and they are.
Dont thik You read my post carefuly. I was not talking about fighting in indy.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
They are transport.
Well, if CCP think so, (and most likely they do) this is end of story for me. Lets just everybody go to 0.0 to shoot each other. Yet another CS clone
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Gomatong
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:08:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Maric
Edited by: Maric on 29/07/2004 08:46:19
Edited by: Maric on 29/07/2004 08:39:24
First of all, we need one thing clear:
Are indy transport ships or are they industrial?
If they are transport ships only, then there is nothing to do, they can be nerfed and nobody will noticed (IE smaller CPU output, lesser med/hi slots).
If they are industrial, then there is a huge job to do!
When I say industrial I mean producing stuff, minning stuff, reprocessing stuff, researching stuff - a micro station. Mobile rafineries, mobile factories, mobile labs, minning lasers with everything fitted on slots and done in cargobay with help science graduates, slaves, homeless people. This is industrial for me. Thats the way to make this game more interesting for nonfighting people.
Bah Industrials - empty box with rockets more like! Indies should be able to manufacture consumables like Ammo or Drones at reduced ME levels, provide limited deep-space fitting / repair facilities, operate salvage drones etc. This would make the indy a very desirable ship. Give them 2 more high slots and a little more PG for some limtied defences.
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Gomatong
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Maric
Edited by: Maric on 29/07/2004 08:46:19
Edited by: Maric on 29/07/2004 08:39:24
First of all, we need one thing clear:
Are indy transport ships or are they industrial?
If they are transport ships only, then there is nothing to do, they can be nerfed and nobody will noticed (IE smaller CPU output, lesser med/hi slots).
If they are industrial, then there is a huge job to do!
When I say industrial I mean producing stuff, minning stuff, reprocessing stuff, researching stuff - a micro station. Mobile rafineries, mobile factories, mobile labs, minning lasers with everything fitted on slots and done in cargobay with help science graduates, slaves, homeless people. This is industrial for me. Thats the way to make this game more interesting for nonfighting people.
Bah Industrials - empty box with rockets more like! Indies should be able to manufacture consumables like Ammo or Drones at reduced ME levels, provide limited deep-space fitting / repair facilities, operate salvage drones etc. This would make the indy a very desirable ship. Give them 2 more high slots and a little more PG for some limtied defences.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:23:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Gomatong
Indies should be able to manufacture consumables like Ammo or Drones at reduced ME levels, provide limited deep-space fitting / repair facilities, operate salvage drones etc. This would make the indy a very desirable ship. Give them 2 more high slots and a little more PG for some limtied defences.
At last!! Someone with a vision!! 
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:23:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Gomatong
Indies should be able to manufacture consumables like Ammo or Drones at reduced ME levels, provide limited deep-space fitting / repair facilities, operate salvage drones etc. This would make the indy a very desirable ship. Give them 2 more high slots and a little more PG for some limtied defences.
At last!! Someone with a vision!!
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SKiNNiEH
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:25:00 -
[33]
I think haulers should be more like the npc haulers you can find in 0.0 mining ops. They have the armor of a battleship, but arent shooting back.
So this is what i think a hauler should become in this game:
- Lots more armor, that resembles the armor hp of battleships
- No turrethardpoints, but keep the highslots as is.
This way, it isnt a pod with cargospace (vulnerability-wise). It can withstand some beating, but once webbed/scrambled it'll still die. Why no turrethardpoints? Having one gun on it is useless and imo, using a hauler for (ninja) mining is just wrong :)
-------
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SKiNNiEH
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:25:00 -
[34]
I think haulers should be more like the npc haulers you can find in 0.0 mining ops. They have the armor of a battleship, but arent shooting back.
So this is what i think a hauler should become in this game:
- Lots more armor, that resembles the armor hp of battleships
- No turrethardpoints, but keep the highslots as is.
This way, it isnt a pod with cargospace (vulnerability-wise). It can withstand some beating, but once webbed/scrambled it'll still die. Why no turrethardpoints? Having one gun on it is useless and imo, using a hauler for (ninja) mining is just wrong :)
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:36:00 -
[35]
WHere did all you indy lovers crawl from all of a sudden ?
Indies producing stuff, having space for frigs to dock ???
hello !! *waves* you wanna come over to the real eve now ?
Titans will be able to act as dock, pos will be able to produce. Why a cargo vessel would ever be expected to produce anything is, well, kinda beyond me ?
And dont come quoting me their name as excuse. It's not like you guys use your battleship for battle is it ?
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Rod Blaine
|
Posted - 2004.07.29 09:36:00 -
[36]
WHere did all you indy lovers crawl from all of a sudden ?
Indies producing stuff, having space for frigs to dock ???
hello !! *waves* you wanna come over to the real eve now ?
Titans will be able to act as dock, pos will be able to produce. Why a cargo vessel would ever be expected to produce anything is, well, kinda beyond me ?
And dont come quoting me their name as excuse. It's not like you guys use your battleship for battle is it ?
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
chillx
|
Posted - 2004.07.29 09:39:00 -
[37]
The only thing I would change is make them able to MWD. It seems insane that every other class of ship in EVE has this option but the shipbuilders deemed that moving large amounts of stuff wouldn't be something that people would like a speed boost for. Time is money when you haul.
It would change game mechanics that much. It's not as if you're going to run a 0.0 gate camp in a MWD indy. Everyone uses instas for that. A MWD frigate / cruiser / BS would be able to catch the indy if it tried to run.
It would take the tedium out of ferrying large amounts of low grade ore about the place.
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chillx
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:39:00 -
[38]
The only thing I would change is make them able to MWD. It seems insane that every other class of ship in EVE has this option but the shipbuilders deemed that moving large amounts of stuff wouldn't be something that people would like a speed boost for. Time is money when you haul.
It would change game mechanics that much. It's not as if you're going to run a 0.0 gate camp in a MWD indy. Everyone uses instas for that. A MWD frigate / cruiser / BS would be able to catch the indy if it tried to run.
It would take the tedium out of ferrying large amounts of low grade ore about the place.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:49:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
having space for frigs to dock ???
Who said that? It is stupid, I agree. Not to mention that no indy can haul a frig. Shuttle may be but there is no need for something like that.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Why a cargo vessel would ever be expected to produce anything is, well, kinda beyond me ?
Becouse it can be done, becouse it will add interesting way to play game, becouse not all players will be in position to own POS. Need more?
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:49:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
having space for frigs to dock ???
Who said that? It is stupid, I agree. Not to mention that no indy can haul a frig. Shuttle may be but there is no need for something like that.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Why a cargo vessel would ever be expected to produce anything is, well, kinda beyond me ?
Becouse it can be done, becouse it will add interesting way to play game, becouse not all players will be in position to own POS. Need more?
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Verbal Kint
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:50:00 -
[41]
Well I see the indie class as pure small haulers, no fancy stuff here.
If they need to 'tune' the different races more to level them. I would hope they tune other things than capacity to make up for the cargo diff.
Minnie gets a slight speedboost etc. So we get a broader line of choices, so if you want cargo room you might fly Iteron's, speed Minnie. Blokade running then the Badger has an ace up the sleeve and so on.
Industrial wise i would love to see a new Class of ships, more specified. Kinda like with the Frigs and advanced Frigs. Some able to build, some refine etc.
And offcourse the monstertruck hauler class =)
And with the universe as we see it this past year, an armored transport of some kind would have been developed. Somewhere in between the Cruiser and Indie i would say.
someone would have build it after being ganked a couple of times.
*V.K*
Verbal Kint - Grumpy ol' c0ot. |
Verbal Kint
|
Posted - 2004.07.29 09:50:00 -
[42]
Well I see the indie class as pure small haulers, no fancy stuff here.
If they need to 'tune' the different races more to level them. I would hope they tune other things than capacity to make up for the cargo diff.
Minnie gets a slight speedboost etc. So we get a broader line of choices, so if you want cargo room you might fly Iteron's, speed Minnie. Blokade running then the Badger has an ace up the sleeve and so on.
Industrial wise i would love to see a new Class of ships, more specified. Kinda like with the Frigs and advanced Frigs. Some able to build, some refine etc.
And offcourse the monstertruck hauler class =)
And with the universe as we see it this past year, an armored transport of some kind would have been developed. Somewhere in between the Cruiser and Indie i would say.
someone would have build it after being ganked a couple of times.
*V.K*
Verbal Kint - Grumpy ol' c0ot. |
Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:52:00 -
[43]
Originally by: chillx
The only thing I would change is make them able to MWD.
Buy Iteron V or Mammoth, get Engineering lvl5, put some micro aux power and rcu and You will be able to fit 10mn MWD.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:52:00 -
[44]
Originally by: chillx
The only thing I would change is make them able to MWD.
Buy Iteron V or Mammoth, get Engineering lvl5, put some micro aux power and rcu and You will be able to fit 10mn MWD.
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Galk
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:59:00 -
[45]
Indy craft can mwd, it just costs you space for using it...
Like eveything you trade it off, i like that balance...
Bugs me when i see people calling for an absolute one way or the other, no hauler should be able to carry full expanders while mwd'ing about the place, on the other hand, every indy should be able to fit one....
Not sitting on the fence, more i just like that balance...
Problem with that... well jump in a frig and spend an hour creating instas......
------------------------
----
Little wonder why people were, what this person was telling my friends: http://galk.50megs.com/logs/ |
Galk
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Posted - 2004.07.29 09:59:00 -
[46]
Indy craft can mwd, it just costs you space for using it...
Like eveything you trade it off, i like that balance...
Bugs me when i see people calling for an absolute one way or the other, no hauler should be able to carry full expanders while mwd'ing about the place, on the other hand, every indy should be able to fit one....
Not sitting on the fence, more i just like that balance...
Problem with that... well jump in a frig and spend an hour creating instas......
------------------------
----
Little wonder why people were, what this person was telling my friends: http://galk.50megs.com/logs/ |
chillx
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Posted - 2004.07.29 11:02:00 -
[47]
I've just finished Engineering V.
Time to get my Mammoth out of mothballs. 
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chillx
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Posted - 2004.07.29 11:02:00 -
[48]
I've just finished Engineering V.
Time to get my Mammoth out of mothballs.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 12:10:00 -
[49]
Originally by: chillx
I've just finished Engineering V.
Time to get my Mammoth out of mothballs.
Good job
Downside of this fitting is large consumation of cap  . After a few days I change back my Mammoth to nanofibers and AB. Why? Often I have to jump 10+. It is dull to stay just to click AB or MWD when warp out, therefore I propose some new speed mod med slot modules or modifing existig one from low to med slots (forgot name, it have cargo penalty).
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.29 12:10:00 -
[50]
Originally by: chillx
I've just finished Engineering V.
Time to get my Mammoth out of mothballs.
Good job
Downside of this fitting is large consumation of cap . After a few days I change back my Mammoth to nanofibers and AB. Why? Often I have to jump 10+. It is dull to stay just to click AB or MWD when warp out, therefore I propose some new speed mod med slot modules or modifing existig one from low to med slots (forgot name, it have cargo penalty).
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 14:27:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Maric
Downside of this fitting is large consumation of cap . After a few days I change back my Mammoth to nanofibers and AB. Why? Often I have to jump 10+. It is dull to stay just to click AB or MWD when warp out, therefore I propose some new speed mod med slot modules or modifing existig one from low to med slots (forgot name, it have cargo penalty).
Just put cap rechargers in your med slots and you are good to go with an MWD on a Mammoth/Mk-V. This assumes of course you don't need the med slots for defensive modules but then if you did you probably shouldn't be fitting for an MWD anyway (stabs in low instead of all those RCUs).
I've been meaning to see if RCU-IIs allow indies below a Mammoth/Mk-V to fit MWDs. Anyone know if with RCU-IIs you can squeeze an MWD on a Mk-IV or Bestower?
As for those who think other indies should be buffed to come closer to equaling a Mk-V I say no way. In fact, if anything I think the Mk-V should be even better than it is to reflect its training needs. It takes 30 days to train the thing...it ought to have noticeably better stats and as it is the Mammoth isn't too far off for a fraction of the training time.
There are some neat ideas here to make indies more useful. A heavily armored indie would be great as an option. For balance it would give up cargo/speed.
Another thing I think would be fun would be an EVE version of the AC-130H/U Spectre Gunship. Basically a cargo carrier that has given up its cargo to carry extremely heavy firepower. In EVE such a ship would be an industrial based ship (i.e. slow, low shields/armor) but would sport many guns. Be fun to lure in ganking frigs only for them to learn the hard way that this particular hauler has teeth.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 14:27:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Maric
Downside of this fitting is large consumation of cap . After a few days I change back my Mammoth to nanofibers and AB. Why? Often I have to jump 10+. It is dull to stay just to click AB or MWD when warp out, therefore I propose some new speed mod med slot modules or modifing existig one from low to med slots (forgot name, it have cargo penalty).
Just put cap rechargers in your med slots and you are good to go with an MWD on a Mammoth/Mk-V. This assumes of course you don't need the med slots for defensive modules but then if you did you probably shouldn't be fitting for an MWD anyway (stabs in low instead of all those RCUs).
I've been meaning to see if RCU-IIs allow indies below a Mammoth/Mk-V to fit MWDs. Anyone know if with RCU-IIs you can squeeze an MWD on a Mk-IV or Bestower?
As for those who think other indies should be buffed to come closer to equaling a Mk-V I say no way. In fact, if anything I think the Mk-V should be even better than it is to reflect its training needs. It takes 30 days to train the thing...it ought to have noticeably better stats and as it is the Mammoth isn't too far off for a fraction of the training time.
There are some neat ideas here to make indies more useful. A heavily armored indie would be great as an option. For balance it would give up cargo/speed.
Another thing I think would be fun would be an EVE version of the AC-130H/U Spectre Gunship. Basically a cargo carrier that has given up its cargo to carry extremely heavy firepower. In EVE such a ship would be an industrial based ship (i.e. slow, low shields/armor) but would sport many guns. Be fun to lure in ganking frigs only for them to learn the hard way that this particular hauler has teeth.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.30 05:48:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Mon Palae
Anyone know if with RCU-IIs you can squeeze an MWD on a Mk-IV or Bestower?
Unfortunatly, it cannot be done. Badger MK-II have good power output but but still 1 low slot short. Bestover have too low power output. Iteron MK-IV have both too low power output and low slot short. Others are worse then Iteron MK-IV.
A few times I saw on market auctions for named RCU which gives 20% power boost. With this module Badger II and Bestower can mount MWD, but considering price it is pure teory
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.30 05:48:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Mon Palae
Anyone know if with RCU-IIs you can squeeze an MWD on a Mk-IV or Bestower?
Unfortunatly, it cannot be done. Badger MK-II have good power output but but still 1 low slot short. Bestover have too low power output. Iteron MK-IV have both too low power output and low slot short. Others are worse then Iteron MK-IV.
A few times I saw on market auctions for named RCU which gives 20% power boost. With this module Badger II and Bestower can mount MWD, but considering price it is pure teory
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Crucius Sanctus
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Posted - 2004.07.30 06:44:00 -
[55]
I have only limited input I'm afraid, only been playing a week.
I'm dissapointed to hear how fragile indies are. I kind of relish the idea of escorting civilian cargo transports and fending off pirates and such. Actually I'm kind of hoping they'll add missions for groups that involve escorting a player in a big indy and getting stopped mid-warp, only to hold off hordes of pirates before moving again.
The main thing as a player that I don't understand is why there are clear 'best' ships. I know it takes an extremely long time to be able to pilot an Iteron V, but I don't understand why there aren't similar options for other races. For instance, Amarr have only one ship, which I've heard is the most cost effective if you only want to put one point into it. That's great, but what if you want to go the whole for lvl 5, you want to get Gallentean industrials instead. I think it would be great if there were a Iteron V, but to have the usual racial flavors in there. The Amarr ship would be an armor totting beast, probably, whereas another race might have more cargo space, another might be faster, things like that.
I want to make money escorting you! It's what ship captains do.
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Crucius Sanctus
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Posted - 2004.07.30 06:44:00 -
[56]
I have only limited input I'm afraid, only been playing a week.
I'm dissapointed to hear how fragile indies are. I kind of relish the idea of escorting civilian cargo transports and fending off pirates and such. Actually I'm kind of hoping they'll add missions for groups that involve escorting a player in a big indy and getting stopped mid-warp, only to hold off hordes of pirates before moving again.
The main thing as a player that I don't understand is why there are clear 'best' ships. I know it takes an extremely long time to be able to pilot an Iteron V, but I don't understand why there aren't similar options for other races. For instance, Amarr have only one ship, which I've heard is the most cost effective if you only want to put one point into it. That's great, but what if you want to go the whole for lvl 5, you want to get Gallentean industrials instead. I think it would be great if there were a Iteron V, but to have the usual racial flavors in there. The Amarr ship would be an armor totting beast, probably, whereas another race might have more cargo space, another might be faster, things like that.
I want to make money escorting you! It's what ship captains do.
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.07.30 06:56:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Maric
Originally by: Mon Palae
Anyone know if with RCU-IIs you can squeeze an MWD on a Mk-IV or Bestower?
Unfortunatly, it cannot be done. Badger MK-II have good power output but but still 1 low slot short. Bestover have too low power output. Iteron MK-IV have both too low power output and low slot short. Others are worse then Iteron MK-IV.
A few times I saw on market auctions for named RCU which gives 20% power boost. With this module Badger II and Bestower can mount MWD, but considering price it is pure teory
HUH??
assumming the badger mk II has 80 base PG which I believe it does, with engineering V you get 100 powergrid, with 3 15% RCU IIs you get 152 PG... just enough to fit a 10mn MWD.
................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.07.30 06:56:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Maric
Originally by: Mon Palae
Anyone know if with RCU-IIs you can squeeze an MWD on a Mk-IV or Bestower?
Unfortunatly, it cannot be done. Badger MK-II have good power output but but still 1 low slot short. Bestover have too low power output. Iteron MK-IV have both too low power output and low slot short. Others are worse then Iteron MK-IV.
A few times I saw on market auctions for named RCU which gives 20% power boost. With this module Badger II and Bestower can mount MWD, but considering price it is pure teory
HUH??
assumming the badger mk II has 80 base PG which I believe it does, with engineering V you get 100 powergrid, with 3 15% RCU IIs you get 152 PG... just enough to fit a 10mn MWD.
................. |
Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:37:00 -
[59]
the whole issue on expanders is messed up. you say dont use all expanders and you will survive better. thats true. but people use expanders because hauling is boring. very boring. its worse than mining, and thats saying something. so they fit expanders to make it go faster. 5 expanded 1's on a mk5 more than double the available cargo(from 7500 to 17k).. so if you have to make 40 trips with expanders, without you would have to make 90 trips.
so say with expanders it would take 5 hours to haul the cargo, without it would take 11.3 hours. now on one hand, with expanders you can guarantee you'll save time, even if you get blown up(haulers are easily replaced) several times. kitting out for survival only helps against random frigate indypoppers. you wont save yourself from concentrated attacks. or be able to run blockades.
on the other, you can be guaranteed to take more than twice as long as with expanders, all for a slightly larger chance to survive(still very small if its more than 1 frigate hunting you.). from my perspective, the answer is clear that using expanders and just accepting the occasional death is still far far more profitable than kitting out for max survivability and taking twice as long to haul everything i mine. the time saved is an enormous benefit.
so i say just give a stacking penalty to expanders, and up the base cargo's and cargo bonuses by a lot. make base cargo 150% of what it is now, and make the bonus 10% per level. or more. that way you can fit one or 2 expanders and get some benefit, but you wont be compelled to fit 4 or 5 to save time and make the job bearable.
also increasing the powergrid would help a lot. should be able to at least fit a medium extender and a medium turret, along with some other mods. 250 or so wouldnt be too overpowering for indies. and making the second highslot a launcherslot wouldnt hurt my feelings at all either =D.
My Idea Thread
Give Drones Love! |
Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:37:00 -
[60]
the whole issue on expanders is messed up. you say dont use all expanders and you will survive better. thats true. but people use expanders because hauling is boring. very boring. its worse than mining, and thats saying something. so they fit expanders to make it go faster. 5 expanded 1's on a mk5 more than double the available cargo(from 7500 to 17k).. so if you have to make 40 trips with expanders, without you would have to make 90 trips.
so say with expanders it would take 5 hours to haul the cargo, without it would take 11.3 hours. now on one hand, with expanders you can guarantee you'll save time, even if you get blown up(haulers are easily replaced) several times. kitting out for survival only helps against random frigate indypoppers. you wont save yourself from concentrated attacks. or be able to run blockades.
on the other, you can be guaranteed to take more than twice as long as with expanders, all for a slightly larger chance to survive(still very small if its more than 1 frigate hunting you.). from my perspective, the answer is clear that using expanders and just accepting the occasional death is still far far more profitable than kitting out for max survivability and taking twice as long to haul everything i mine. the time saved is an enormous benefit.
so i say just give a stacking penalty to expanders, and up the base cargo's and cargo bonuses by a lot. make base cargo 150% of what it is now, and make the bonus 10% per level. or more. that way you can fit one or 2 expanders and get some benefit, but you wont be compelled to fit 4 or 5 to save time and make the job bearable.
also increasing the powergrid would help a lot. should be able to at least fit a medium extender and a medium turret, along with some other mods. 250 or so wouldnt be too overpowering for indies. and making the second highslot a launcherslot wouldnt hurt my feelings at all either =D.
My Idea Thread
Give Drones Love! |
Fikia
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:47:00 -
[61]
Industrial ships.... those we have today shouldn't even be called industrials at all. They do nothing that indicates their name. All they do is transport really.
Industrials are just slightly bigger frigates with the mass of a cruiser (therefore needing 10mn ab/mwds to function with those mods) and a huge hold. I never understood why they were made so weak in terms of shield/armor. As someone pointed out earlier, escorts for a hauler are almost useless since they can be destroyed fairly easily.. Tactically speaking in regards to wars/pirating/etc., you can just intercept industrials and their escorts... Kill the industrials, retreat/regroup after the industrials are gone and you'd probably have done a lot more damage to the corp/group than killing the escorts.
That's not what I saw an "industrial" as. They need more shields, more cap, more armor, more hull. PG/CPU could be adjusted somewhat. They shouldn't be slow moving frigates with cargo space.. For that, i'd just use a bship with cargo expanders.. but that brings the issue of the bship as a jack of all trades ship (ie. best miners, great haulers, and of course a war machine :b)
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Fikia
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:47:00 -
[62]
Industrial ships.... those we have today shouldn't even be called industrials at all. They do nothing that indicates their name. All they do is transport really.
Industrials are just slightly bigger frigates with the mass of a cruiser (therefore needing 10mn ab/mwds to function with those mods) and a huge hold. I never understood why they were made so weak in terms of shield/armor. As someone pointed out earlier, escorts for a hauler are almost useless since they can be destroyed fairly easily.. Tactically speaking in regards to wars/pirating/etc., you can just intercept industrials and their escorts... Kill the industrials, retreat/regroup after the industrials are gone and you'd probably have done a lot more damage to the corp/group than killing the escorts.
That's not what I saw an "industrial" as. They need more shields, more cap, more armor, more hull. PG/CPU could be adjusted somewhat. They shouldn't be slow moving frigates with cargo space.. For that, i'd just use a bship with cargo expanders.. but that brings the issue of the bship as a jack of all trades ship (ie. best miners, great haulers, and of course a war machine :b)
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Ahlaia
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:57:00 -
[63]
What do you think about a medium slot that uses like 700 cpu, 20 powergride, maybe some cap for each refine, and yes, evry ore gets in, gets refined, of corse, nowhere near as good as a station refiner.
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Ahlaia
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:57:00 -
[64]
What do you think about a medium slot that uses like 700 cpu, 20 powergride, maybe some cap for each refine, and yes, evry ore gets in, gets refined, of corse, nowhere near as good as a station refiner.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:26:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Cruz
assumming the badger mk II has 80 base PG which I believe it does, with engineering V you get 100 powergrid, with 3 15% RCU IIs you get 152 PG... just enough to fit a 10mn MWD.
You are right. My calculations was for diferent fitting.
When I look better, and Bestover can be fitted with MWD. 70pg+1xmicro aux power core + EngLVL5 + 3xRCU2 =150pg
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:26:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Cruz
assumming the badger mk II has 80 base PG which I believe it does, with engineering V you get 100 powergrid, with 3 15% RCU IIs you get 152 PG... just enough to fit a 10mn MWD.
You are right. My calculations was for diferent fitting.
When I look better, and Bestover can be fitted with MWD. 70pg+1xmicro aux power core + EngLVL5 + 3xRCU2 =150pg
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:29:00 -
[67]
152,0875pg to be more precize 
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:29:00 -
[68]
152,0875pg to be more precize
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Frost88
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:48:00 -
[69]
From the position of a pirate, I think Indies do need some subtle tweaking, atm they are too heavy to use 1mn speed boosts, but lack cpu and powergrid to use 10mn. Personally I'd like thier weight to drop a litte, not the extremes of frigates, but just low enough so a 1mn MWD can see them going 500m/s rather than 200m/s. The latter will resut in super-indies covered in missile launchers and turrets 
------------------------------------------------
I've always owned Kehmor, cheap as chips off Ebay
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Frost88
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:48:00 -
[70]
From the position of a pirate, I think Indies do need some subtle tweaking, atm they are too heavy to use 1mn speed boosts, but lack cpu and powergrid to use 10mn. Personally I'd like thier weight to drop a litte, not the extremes of frigates, but just low enough so a 1mn MWD can see them going 500m/s rather than 200m/s. The latter will resut in super-indies covered in missile launchers and turrets
------------------------------------------------
I've always owned Kehmor, cheap as chips off Ebay
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Evona Moucrou
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Posted - 2004.07.30 10:01:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Frost88
From the position of a pirate, I think Indies do need some subtle tweaking, atm they are too heavy to use 1mn speed boosts, but lack cpu and powergrid to use 10mn. Personally I'd like thier weight to drop a litte, not the extremes of frigates, but just low enough so a 1mn MWD can see them going 500m/s rather than 200m/s. The latter will resut in super-indies covered in missile launchers and turrets
With 3 overdrives and a 10mn afterburner I can get my Badger2 to 400 m/s, and 825 shield, and still have 4000 m3 cargo space. That is five times as much as the best battleship, at four times their speed, of course you could also do ten flights with a frigatte.
On my 0.0 Badger2 I fitted 3 warb stabs, and 1000 shield suppored by two tacticals and a small and a med shield booster, as well as some anode light neutron particle thing (not like it would hit a frig though :p).
Of course I always carry spare cargo expanders with me. Which I ONLY do fit when I have to do huge (fairly) secure hauls.
Industrial vessels can be fitted to fly fairly fast, or can be fitted to tank, or can be be fitted to haul lots of stuff.
Nobody is forcing us to always have them expanders fitted.
(Personally I own 3 Badger2s, cause I am too lazy to refit. :p)
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Evona Moucrou
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Posted - 2004.07.30 10:01:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Frost88
From the position of a pirate, I think Indies do need some subtle tweaking, atm they are too heavy to use 1mn speed boosts, but lack cpu and powergrid to use 10mn. Personally I'd like thier weight to drop a litte, not the extremes of frigates, but just low enough so a 1mn MWD can see them going 500m/s rather than 200m/s. The latter will resut in super-indies covered in missile launchers and turrets
With 3 overdrives and a 10mn afterburner I can get my Badger2 to 400 m/s, and 825 shield, and still have 4000 m3 cargo space. That is five times as much as the best battleship, at four times their speed, of course you could also do ten flights with a frigatte.
On my 0.0 Badger2 I fitted 3 warb stabs, and 1000 shield suppored by two tacticals and a small and a med shield booster, as well as some anode light neutron particle thing (not like it would hit a frig though :p).
Of course I always carry spare cargo expanders with me. Which I ONLY do fit when I have to do huge (fairly) secure hauls.
Industrial vessels can be fitted to fly fairly fast, or can be fitted to tank, or can be be fitted to haul lots of stuff.
Nobody is forcing us to always have them expanders fitted.
(Personally I own 3 Badger2s, cause I am too lazy to refit. :p)
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Cobracure
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Posted - 2004.07.30 11:32:00 -
[73]
I think Indys should have increased armour personally. They are slow and defenceless enough as it is.
Anyone played Dune 2 / Dune2000 ? They should make the hauler have armour more like the harvesters in that game. Slow and unprotected but takes a bit to kill them.
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Cobracure
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Posted - 2004.07.30 11:32:00 -
[74]
I think Indys should have increased armour personally. They are slow and defenceless enough as it is.
Anyone played Dune 2 / Dune2000 ? They should make the hauler have armour more like the harvesters in that game. Slow and unprotected but takes a bit to kill them.
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Serocca
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Posted - 2004.07.30 13:00:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Evona Moucrou
With 3 overdrives and a 10mn afterburner I can get my Badger2 to 400 m/s, and 825 shield, and still have 4000 m3 cargo space. That is five times as much as the best battleship, at four times their speed, of course you could also do ten flights with a frigatte.
Just to have a good laugh, I took my apoc and equipped it with 7 cargo expanders that I had in my hangar.
Next I completed the setup with 2 100 mn mwds and 2 cap rechargers.
With this setup I have 3484 cargo and a top speed of over 1 km/s with a dual mwd single burst,2700 shield hp and about 5800 armor.
Of course this is way more expensive than a badger2 .. but it can haul almost as much, has about 3x your speed and it's harder to kill.
Let alone the fact that you can fit some guns too
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Serocca
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Posted - 2004.07.30 13:00:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Evona Moucrou
With 3 overdrives and a 10mn afterburner I can get my Badger2 to 400 m/s, and 825 shield, and still have 4000 m3 cargo space. That is five times as much as the best battleship, at four times their speed, of course you could also do ten flights with a frigatte.
Just to have a good laugh, I took my apoc and equipped it with 7 cargo expanders that I had in my hangar.
Next I completed the setup with 2 100 mn mwds and 2 cap rechargers.
With this setup I have 3484 cargo and a top speed of over 1 km/s with a dual mwd single burst,2700 shield hp and about 5800 armor.
Of course this is way more expensive than a badger2 .. but it can haul almost as much, has about 3x your speed and it's harder to kill.
Let alone the fact that you can fit some guns too
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monkiboi
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Posted - 2004.07.30 13:25:00 -
[77]
Does anyone know the original intention behind indys having huge cpu and (relatively) tiny pg?
It would be nice to see some indy only modules to take advantage of this "feature".
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monkiboi
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Posted - 2004.07.30 13:25:00 -
[78]
Does anyone know the original intention behind indys having huge cpu and (relatively) tiny pg?
It would be nice to see some indy only modules to take advantage of this "feature".
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Kahlee
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Posted - 2004.07.30 14:35:00 -
[79]
Heres my opinion:
Adding more turrets is ridiculous, cuz i actually know few people who mine in 1.0 space in indies. They lock a big rock, turn on the laser and go outside. and AFK mining is as lame as it gets..
Idustrial ships are by my definition ships used for purposes of industrial transport, or else they would be called Mobile factories or such. Like someone said, they are boxes with rockets. They should stay that way. Indy is a ship that ephasises on cargo capacity, not combat. They are good the way they are and thats it.
And one small correction: Frigates can fit into an indy - transported one yesterday (17500m3)
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Omniwar:You know what people do in online games to other people they cant win? Flame. |
Kahlee
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Posted - 2004.07.30 14:35:00 -
[80]
Heres my opinion:
Adding more turrets is ridiculous, cuz i actually know few people who mine in 1.0 space in indies. They lock a big rock, turn on the laser and go outside. and AFK mining is as lame as it gets..
Idustrial ships are by my definition ships used for purposes of industrial transport, or else they would be called Mobile factories or such. Like someone said, they are boxes with rockets. They should stay that way. Indy is a ship that ephasises on cargo capacity, not combat. They are good the way they are and thats it.
And one small correction: Frigates can fit into an indy - transported one yesterday (17500m3)
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Omniwar:You know what people do in online games to other people they cant win? Flame. |
Bobby Wilson
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Posted - 2004.07.30 14:51:00 -
[81]
Launcher slot and double scan resolution for Badger II. Leave 'em their turret though, for those miners :P
That'd complete the process of giving Calidari a combat indy. Could do the same for mammoth as well.
BW
Originally by: Selim
Cool, congrats.
Oh, stupid idea by the way.
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Bobby Wilson
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Posted - 2004.07.30 14:51:00 -
[82]
Launcher slot and double scan resolution for Badger II. Leave 'em their turret though, for those miners :P
That'd complete the process of giving Calidari a combat indy. Could do the same for mammoth as well.
BW
Originally by: Selim
Cool, congrats.
Oh, stupid idea by the way.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.08.02 05:16:00 -
[83]
Originally by: monkiboi
Does anyone know the original intention behind indys having huge cpu and (relatively) tiny pg?
There was a rummor that in beggining indy ships was not design for hauling only. Some modules (IE mobile reprocesing unit, etc.) should need a lot of cpu if they ever see a light of day.
Originally by: monkiboi
It would be nice to see some indy only modules to take advantage of this "feature".
I agree, and hope CCP agree too, but seems to me it woud't bee soon. For now they work on shiva, and after shiva next 3 mounths they will hunt the bugs. After that - not even CCP knows.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.08.02 05:16:00 -
[84]
Originally by: monkiboi
Does anyone know the original intention behind indys having huge cpu and (relatively) tiny pg?
There was a rummor that in beggining indy ships was not design for hauling only. Some modules (IE mobile reprocesing unit, etc.) should need a lot of cpu if they ever see a light of day.
Originally by: monkiboi
It would be nice to see some indy only modules to take advantage of this "feature".
I agree, and hope CCP agree too, but seems to me it woud't bee soon. For now they work on shiva, and after shiva next 3 mounths they will hunt the bugs. After that - not even CCP knows.
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Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.08.02 07:26:00 -
[85]
the thing i dont understand is if you want to bring more oomf to a fight, you can spend the cash and buy a cruiser or bs(and soon destroyers, battlecruisers, and dreadnaughts someday).. if you want to mine better, again, you can upgrade to a cruiser, or a battleship. why cant a hauler spend the cash and get a hauler that costs ten mil thats larger and stronger, or 100 mil to get one even larger and stronger than that. i know titans will be all that, yes.. but titans are supposed to be the be all and end all of this game, capable of anything really.
wheres the upgrade options for haulers to buy better ships. it would be no less imbalancing to have bs class haulers than it is to have bs. no one complains about the bs being able to kill better and have stronger tanks.... why the hesitation about an indy that hauls better and is stronger? its not like it would be unkillable, as bs get killed everyday. i'd gut my domi and fit it out as a cargo ship if i could, leaving the armor and a few k of grid and converting all unnecessary equipment and the drone bay to cargo space.
My Idea Thread
Give Drones Love! |
Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.08.02 07:26:00 -
[86]
the thing i dont understand is if you want to bring more oomf to a fight, you can spend the cash and buy a cruiser or bs(and soon destroyers, battlecruisers, and dreadnaughts someday).. if you want to mine better, again, you can upgrade to a cruiser, or a battleship. why cant a hauler spend the cash and get a hauler that costs ten mil thats larger and stronger, or 100 mil to get one even larger and stronger than that. i know titans will be all that, yes.. but titans are supposed to be the be all and end all of this game, capable of anything really.
wheres the upgrade options for haulers to buy better ships. it would be no less imbalancing to have bs class haulers than it is to have bs. no one complains about the bs being able to kill better and have stronger tanks.... why the hesitation about an indy that hauls better and is stronger? its not like it would be unkillable, as bs get killed everyday. i'd gut my domi and fit it out as a cargo ship if i could, leaving the armor and a few k of grid and converting all unnecessary equipment and the drone bay to cargo space.
My Idea Thread
Give Drones Love! |
Nicodemous
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Posted - 2004.08.02 09:06:00 -
[87]
Originally by: monkiboi
Does anyone know the original intention behind indys having huge cpu and (relatively) tiny pg?
It would be nice to see some indy only modules to take advantage of this "feature".
There are mobile refinery modules and such for Industrials, CCP just hasn't put them into TQ yet.
There's also 2 elite Industrials per race queued up, a "Slow & Heavy" and a "Fast & Light", but God only knows when we'll actually get them...
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Nicodemous
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Posted - 2004.08.02 09:06:00 -
[88]
Originally by: monkiboi
Does anyone know the original intention behind indys having huge cpu and (relatively) tiny pg?
It would be nice to see some indy only modules to take advantage of this "feature".
There are mobile refinery modules and such for Industrials, CCP just hasn't put them into TQ yet.
There's also 2 elite Industrials per race queued up, a "Slow & Heavy" and a "Fast & Light", but God only knows when we'll actually get them...
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.08.02 11:01:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Cutter John
the thing i dont understand is if you want to bring more oomf to a fight
As I can see there is 3 main opinions on haulers on this thread:
1. Some people think that indy should be haulers only and therefore nothing to change. If they are ment to be just haulers then I agree.
2. Some people think they need more combat atributes. I do not agree. Some small drone bay maybe, but nothing more.
3. Some people think they need more industrial atributes. I am among them.
Since two cruisers will gain minning bonus, indy will never be a dedicated minnig ship. I am hoping that other industrial atributes will be implemented some day.
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Maric
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Posted - 2004.08.02 11:01:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Cutter John
the thing i dont understand is if you want to bring more oomf to a fight
As I can see there is 3 main opinions on haulers on this thread:
1. Some people think that indy should be haulers only and therefore nothing to change. If they are ment to be just haulers then I agree.
2. Some people think they need more combat atributes. I do not agree. Some small drone bay maybe, but nothing more.
3. Some people think they need more industrial atributes. I am among them.
Since two cruisers will gain minning bonus, indy will never be a dedicated minnig ship. I am hoping that other industrial atributes will be implemented some day.
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