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Not honoring ransoms?

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the Entity testicular Fortitude Sherwood Forest	Posted - 2009.01.21 15:37:00 - [31] honour in eve? every man for themselves i say Originally by: Acama Asante so clearly this thread is my punishment but what was my crime I wonder
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.01.21 15:43:00 - [32] Originally by: RenegadeRacer people who dishonor ransoms are a myth. What he said. I am not the homo-erotic bad guy you are looking for... o/ Ren!
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.01.21 15:49:00 - [33] People should forget about teaching hisec pirates how to play in a 'honorful way'. I also shared this misconception for some time, but finally I recognized that such attempts are entirely futile. I gotta agree with Sol that there are two different target audiences in Eve that will hardly ever mix - hisec dwellers and those who like to venture into lawless space. For us in losec it's almost mandatory to honor a ransom because the people we target are better informed as they are cooperating more with others and a higher percentage reads the Eve-o forums. That being said - if The Guristas Associates ransom you, we will stick to our word and let you go. However, we do not automatically feel obliged to ransom everyone foolish enough to get caught. If time and situation permit we always appreciate financial compensation for our efforts, if it does not we are also happy about loot and corpse. Now enjoy the game we like to play so much and accept the (virtual) reality of dishonored ransoms in hisec...
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.01.21 16:02:00 - [34] Originally by: H Lecter Way too much common sense.
Normin Bates	Posted - 2009.01.21 16:07:00 - [35] Word of bad experiences spreads like fire while good experiences are almost unheard of. Most often it only takes one bad experience to set the standard response for most people. Thus: 1. Player gets ransomed. (high-sec, low-sec, where ever) 2. Ransom is not honored. 3. Player vows never to pay another ransom. 4. Player tells everyone he knows or encounters about ransoms. 5. Player gets ransomed again by "honorable" pirates who will honor ransom. 6. Player remembers past experience and decides to cut his losses. 7. Player tells pirates to hurry up and pop his pod so he can get back to playing because he knows they won't honor the ransom. 8. Pirates wonder why ransoms work less and less.
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.21 16:16:00 - [36] Edited by: Matrix Skye on 21/01/2009 16:20:37 Yes, players don't remember the corp name that dishonored a ransom. They only remember whether it was high sec or low sec. And everyone knows in hi sec ransoms are to be dishonored. So please do keep dishonoring ransoms. Carve your own eye out. You'll still have an extra one anyway. I personally enjoy pirate threads on how piracy doesn't pay and how it's all the carebears' fault .
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.01.21 16:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Normin Bates Word of bad experiences spreads like fire while good experiences are almost unheard of. Most often it only takes one bad experience to set the standard response for most people. Thus: 1. Player gets ransomed. (high-sec, low-sec, where ever) 2. Ransom is not honored. 3. Player vows never to pay another ransom. 4. Player tells everyone he knows or encounters about ransoms. 5. Player gets ransomed again by "honorable" pirates who will honor ransom. 6. Player remembers past experience and decides to cut his losses. 7. Player tells pirates to hurry up and pop his pod so he can get back to playing because he knows they won't honor the ransom. 8. Pirates wonder why ransoms work less and less. Look m8, you (supposedly) honor ransoms as do I and it's fine! Sol and others (in my experience mostly hisec pirates) do not. How will you force them to change their mind? Pay a mercenary corp to hunt them down and kill them for your precious ISK? Rat up your -10 sec status to wardec & gank them yourself? You can do everything in game that you believe will be successful to change things, but here on the forum it's a waste of your time and energy to try. It's like telling the guys playing the market that they should go pvp or telling us pirates we should stop ransoming and killing people - we'll tell them to get over it as this is the way we chose to play the game that we pay our money for.
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.21 16:23:00 - [38] Hey it's cool. Don't honor ransoms. But for the love of everything that is holy to you don't come b**ch and whine on how piracy doesn't pay, FFS.
M'ing Pai The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2009.01.21 16:30:00 - [39] Edited by: M''ing Pai on 21/01/2009 16:30:49 Originally by: H Lecter Look m8, you (supposedly) honor ransoms as do I and it's fine! Sol and others (in my experience mostly hisec pirates) do not... I would just like to go on the record that I have never dishonored a ransom, in high or lowsec. It's even against our corp charter. Highsec pirate-types aren't all without sense. edit: to put a space below this so my eyes don't bleed.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.01.21 16:38:00 - [40] Edited by: H Lecter on 21/01/2009 16:40:45 Originally by: M'ing Pai I would just like to go on the record that I have never dishonored a ransom, in high or lowsec. It's even against our corp charter. Highsec pirate-types aren't all without sense. You're the first ones (hisec pirates honoring ransoms) I ever heard of - but as posted before, good news do not spread out the same way like bad ones. Thumbs up! P.S.: Rofl @ Insult-o-matic
Eerie Trader	Posted - 2009.01.21 16:50:00 - [41] Meh, I never pay the ransom, figure I'll cut my losses and move on. As for getting held in my pod, that would be sort of fun, as I'd just jump to one of my other accounts and see how long they could keep it up. (wait, isn't that what she said?)
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:08:00 - [42] Originally by: Normin Bates Word of bad experiences spreads like fire while good experiences are almost unheard of. Most often it only takes one bad experience to set the standard response for most people. Thus: 1. Player gets ransomed. (high-sec, low-sec, where ever) 2. Ransom is not honored. 3. Player vows never to pay another ransom. 4. Player tells everyone he knows or encounters about ransoms. 5. Player gets ransomed again by "honorable" pirates who will honor ransom. 6. Player remembers past experience and decides to cut his losses. 7. Player tells pirates to hurry up and pop his pod so he can get back to playing because he knows they won't honor the ransom. 8. Pirates wonder why ransoms work less and less. That's quite a long daisy-chain of events. What really happens is more like this... 1. Player gets ransomed. 2. Ransom is not honored. 3. Player vows never to pay another ransom. 4. Player is too embarrassed to tell his friends, if he even has any. 5. Player forgets. 6. Player tells himself it will be different this time because he's got a few months more training in. 7. Player gets ransomed, etc. 8. Lo-sec pirates wonder why they make no money in low-traffic systems and decide to blame players who can adapt to a dynamic game. Basically, there are any number of outcomes from a dishonoured ransom. You and I can only pretend to divine what goes on in the mind of a target. Frankly, I don't give a **** about the profitability of your chosen profession. All it ever amounts to is guys like you whining about other player's behaviour. I've been doing what I do for a LONG time. It's never stopped being very profitable. It's like this because there's always a new influx of idiots who think they're better than they actually are. It's not my fault you can't profit from it.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:09:00 - [43] Originally by: Matrix Skye Hey it's cool. Don't honor ransoms. But for the love of everything that is holy to you don't come b**ch and whine on how piracy doesn't pay, FFS. Your reading comprehension is pretty poor ITT. Those that whinge about piracy not paying are the ones who HONOUR ransoms. Those of us who aren't honouring them are doing quite fine financially, tyvm.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:15:00 - [44] Originally by: M'ing Pai Edited by: M''ing Pai on 21/01/2009 16:30:49 Originally by: H Lecter Look m8, you (supposedly) honor ransoms as do I and it's fine! Sol and others (in my experience mostly hisec pirates) do not... I would just like to go on the record that I have never dishonored a ransom, in high or lowsec. It's even against our corp charter. Highsec pirate-types aren't all without sense. edit: to put a space below this so my eyes don't bleed. I'd like to clarify here that I have, do, and will in fact honour a ransom if it's in my best interest. If we're under a contract and at war, we honor the ransom and/or terms of the contract set by our employer. If I'm just ****ing around doing what I do, all bets are off, however. That being said, I'll argue that hi-sec corps with a strict policy of honouring ransoms are actually the ones without sense.
Kaya Valda Caldari Neo Spartans	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:19:00 - [45] Originally by: Eerie Trader Meh, I never pay the ransom, figure I'll cut my losses and move on. Contradiction in terms. If you were cutting your losses you would pay the ransom. You choose to make sure your losses are in full by not paying. - Neo-Spartans Recruiting
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:21:00 - [46] Originally by: Sol'Kanar Your reading comprehension is pretty poor ITT. Those that whinge about piracy not paying are the ones who HONOUR ransoms. Those of us who aren't honouring them are doing quite fine financially, tyvm. Your reading comprehension is the one that's poor. You say there's no connection between pirates that honor and those that don't and how it's irrelevant. I'm speaking in terms of piracy in general. When pirates as a whole get a clue as to why players mostly aren't paying ransoms anymore you'll understand how it IS affecting your bottom line. Until then, enjoy carving your eye out. I'll just enjoy your self-mutilation. And when the threads start pouring in on how piracy isn't worth sht anymore, not necessarily by you , I'll just link them to this thread and wait on their pss-poor excuse it's all the carebears' fault. Should be fun, really.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:34:00 - [47] Originally by: Matrix Skye Your reading comprehension is the one that's poor. You say there's no connection between pirates that honor and those that don't and how it's irrelevant. Nope. No one is speaking in absolutes here. You should go back and read my prior posts and think critically about the points I've made. You seem to have an uncanny knack to gloss over parts you don't have a counter for. Originally by: Matrix Skye I'm speaking in terms of piracy in general. When pirates as a whole get a clue as to why players mostly aren't paying ransoms anymore you'll understand how it IS affecting your bottom line. There is quite a distinction between the dynamics of lo-sec and hi-sec combat. That distinction has a direct effect on whether one should honour a ransom or not. Apples to oranges, etc. Lumping two unlike things together and calling them the same does not make it so, no matter how much you want it to. Originally by: Matrix Skye Until then, enjoy carving your eye out. I'll just enjoy your self-mutilation. If by "carving my eye out", you mean "having a blast and making boat loads more dough than I ever could in lo-sec", then yeah, I can appreciate the sentiment. Originally by: Matrix Skye And when the threads start pouring in on how piracy isn't worth sht anymore, not necessarily by you , I'll just link them to this thread and wait on their pss-poor excuse it's all the carebears' fault. Should be fun, really. lol, "ok". So the headline will read: Sol'Kanar, solely responsible for the decline of piracy in Eve. ****, the carebears should treat me like a goddamn hero!
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:35:00 - [48] Originally by: Ignition SemperFi ransom in highsec.... where even if your name is plastered everywhere as not honoring ransoms.... they usually still pay. Screw the ransom, I'm just in it for the light show at the end. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:37:00 - [49] Originally by: Traidor Disloyal Originally by: Ignition SemperFi ransom in highsec.... where even if your name is plastered everywhere as not honoring ransoms.... they usually still pay. Screw the ransom, I'm just in it for the light show at the end. o/ Traidor! Nice to see you're still around, dude.
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:41:00 - [50] Edited by: Matrix Skye on 21/01/2009 17:42:17 Sol'Kanar, I like you. We share the same goals you and me, even if you don't realize it . Keep doing what you're doing .
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:47:00 - [51] Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 21/01/2009 17:42:17 Sol'Kanar, I like you. We share the same goals you and me, even if you don't realize it . Keep doing what you're doing . Your cryptic yet nefarious comment has had a strong effect on me. Clearly, I am just your pawn.
John Cogan	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:49:00 - [52] Originally by: H Lecter How will you force them to change their mind? Ok Might be nieve of me to say this but maybe simply through discussion on the boards a soon to be future pirate will read this and decide to be an honorable one. Then again maybe not but if changes the thinking of a few people then all is good i say.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:50:00 - [53] Originally by: Normin Bates Word of bad experiences spreads like fire while good experiences are almost unheard of. This is has false has ** on a hog. I know of one certain high sec person (there are no pirates in high sec) who I feel is not a pirate but an individual who helps with the redistribution of wealth. I will not name names (and it is not me) who has operated in the same three systems for the past 6 months (could be a year) and has no problems what so ever getting said ransoms and then removing mission runner from the system with guns blazing (well, missiles flying anyway). There is no communication what so ever between the mission runners in these systems. It is kind of funny. Originally by:** Sol'Kanar o/ Traidor! Nice to see you're still around, dude. Hi right back at you big guy. Been taking a break, got kind of burned out. Still training all my accounts though. Done Command Ship V, Recon V, and Heavy Assault V on both accounts. I'm about ready to get back in to mission runner baiting soon. Hope to see you in game. And I think you need to modify your insult-o-matic thing. Still has you on Nighcrew. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:50:00 - [54] Edited by: Matrix Skye on 21/01/2009 17:54:31 Cryptic? Oh no, quite the contrary. You don't see the effects you're causing the piracy profession. Or maybe you just don't care. Either way, it's like you said. Carebears will eventually thank you :P. I for one, see the benefits of what you do in the long term. And believe it or not I appreciate it .
Vall Kor Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:56:00 - [55] But I so love the sound a pod makes when it goes 'pop'
Tristen Orde Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2009.01.21 18:03:00 - [56] Edited by: Tristen Orde on 21/01/2009 18:03:19 Been dishonoring ransoms for 2 years. In those 2 years, no one has ever told me 'I'm not paying you a ransom because people usually break ransoms'. 30% of the time the guy doesn't respond to the convo request. 20% of the time the guy flat out refuses ransom and 50% of the time I get a ransom. Then I blow up their ship. This is the way it's always been and it won't change.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.01.21 18:06:00 - [57] Edited by: Traidor Disloyal on 21/01/2009 18:07:55 Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 21/01/2009 17:54:31 Cryptic? Oh no, quite the contrary. You don't see the effects you're causing the piracy profession. Or maybe you just don't care. Either way, it's like you said. Carebears will eventually thank you :P. I for one, see the benefits of what you do in the long term. And believe it or not I appreciate it . People have been saying this on the forums since I have been playing this game (2.5 years so far). Warp To Zero has hurt piracy more then high sec people not honoring ransoms. Maybe next time the mission runner should think twice (maybe three times) before pulling the trigger on that lone individual who is taking something out of "their" wreak or can. You pulled the trigger first, you screwed up. If you want to screw up a second time by paying ransom then go for it because you must have isk to burn. Me, like I wrote previously, I'm just in it for the light show at the end. I have had to be reminded to ask for ransoms.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.01.21 18:09:00 - [58] Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 21/01/2009 17:51:36 Cryptic? Oh no, quite the contrary. You don't see the effects you're causing the piracy profession. Or maybe you just don't care. Either way, it's like you said. Carebears will eventually thank you :P. I for one, see the benefits of what you do in the long term, and believe it or not I appreciate it. I am but a single homo-erotic pirate. To think that my actions alone have a profound effect on piracy as a whole is flattering but entirely unrealistic. There are several reasons why lo-sec piracy is becoming a difficult profession. The least of which is my not honouring ransoms in hi-sec. Pirates in lo-sec are many, whereas their preferred targets are of low quality and few in number. CCP has given way too many incentives for people to stay in hi-sec. Also, the dramatic decline in cost of T2 has hurt PvP as a profitable profession more than any other factor. So, if you look at lo-sec PvP targets as a pie, you'll see it is a very small pie. MANY pirates are competing for a piece of the pie. The solution is either a bigger pie or less pirates in lo-sec.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.01.21 18:15:00 - [59] Originally by: John Cogan Ok Might be nieve of me to say this but maybe simply through discussion on the boards a soon to be future pirate will read this and decide to be an honorable one. Then again maybe not but if changes the thinking of a few people then all is good i say. Go ahead and try - I have seen too many discussions without any change of viewpoints to believe in it. Personally I started reading C&P after I had become a pirate and it did not have any effect on the way I play the game. I prefer honor, being aware that I will not make as much ISK as the ones who don't. But if I was after ISK I would simply run missions. - What a terrible thought A friend of mine who does not play Eve but knows a lot about it from our conversations once said if he was playing he would be the most honorless person in the universe - not because he is an a$$hole in rl, but just because he can. It's a sandbox - if people were forced to have honor I guarantee you that Eve would be long gone already . It's a question of diversity - Eve needs all types of players. I appreciate the carebears that I kill just as much as the merc that managed to kill me or that guy who dishonored a ransom. It's the way to become part of a living, breathing world that offers all moral choices that rl has to offer. Sinner or a saint or in between where you get million shades of grey - be what you want because it is your money you pay to play.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.01.21 18:25:00 - [60] Edited by: Sol''Kanar on 21/01/2009 18:26:38 Originally by: H Lecter ...sound advice... Let's make babies, or at least go through the motions. BOW CHICKA BOW WOW.

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