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Inertial Killing Spree Inc	Posted - 2009.01.27 07:54:00 - [31] Originally by: Apoctasy Gatecamping isn't pvp. Apoc got it right. Fighting at gates is one thing, sitting at gates for hours to end is boring and ruins the fun for real pvpers. we are recruiting!
eliminator2 Gallente Annihilate.	Posted - 2009.01.27 08:30:00 - [32] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Other than gatecampers, who here who was actually around for WT15 liked WT15? Those days were awful. I'm glad autopilot has stayed at WT15, but manual flying with that as the closest jump setting was just tedious and lame. i agree i used to gate camp because i was in a low sec that was sarrounded by high sec so i couldnt move lol but after abit i started moving and goin real pvp the fact is if it wasnt for the wt0 id still be gate campin and bored to **** so im glad ccp made the changes and they were balanced changes as well
Davien Thule	Posted - 2009.01.27 09:30:00 - [33] Why are you all taking this somewhere it doesn't need to go? Face it, 95% of PvP happened at either gates OR stations at the undock point. That's how it all initiates, whether it be some unlucky hauler from 0.0 or a fleet warping to the gate just before the battle. Gate camps was a risk that is taken whenever you go into low sec, and that was what made this game so fun; it's PIRACY and it was a part of the game, regardless. Warp to 0 ruined PvP, and I would be a zealous Eve player were it still around.
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.27 09:56:00 - [34] Originally by: Davien Thule Warp to 0 ruined PvP, and I would be a zealous Eve player were it still around. ^^ this basicly. other then the very few fights you can get in a belt, all pvp happens at stations/gates(unless you count pos warfare as pvp)
Hopey Gallente L.O.S.T. Industries	Posted - 2009.01.27 09:58:00 - [35] Originally by: Apoctasy Gatecamping isn't pvp. this is the absolute truth. any gatecamper that thinks they are PvPers are delusional. \|~~~~~~~~~~~\| Hopey CEO & Founder, L.O.S.T. Industries \|~~~~\|
Hopey Gallente L.O.S.T. Industries	Posted - 2009.01.27 10:07:00 - [36] every night i go out to a bar and i wait outside and when people come out, i club them unconscious with the lid of a rubbish bin. ergo, i'm a street-fighter! gatecamping = lame gatecamping != pvp \|~~~~~~~~~~~\| Hopey CEO & Founder, L.O.S.T. Industries \|~~~~\|
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.01.27 10:41:00 - [37] Sitting at gate and ganking noobs who haven't copied 1 zillion instajump BMs yet isn't pvp. There's still plenty of fights. Sorry if your easymode Ganking For Beginners now takes more effort. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back! Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.27 10:55:00 - [38] Following the OPs logic I would have thought, that it was instas that killed PvP in EVE long time before WTZ was introduced. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Spurty Caldari Technologic Dance	Posted - 2009.01.27 10:57:00 - [39] oh i do miss the horrendous lag generated as people copied their 4k of wtz bookmarks and a hundred people made copies from it .. .. wait a moment! pvp is alive, it was more fun when minmatar ships could 1volley you into hull tbh, having to bring 2+ friends to break a tank was a bigger death knell
Davien Thule	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:07:00 - [40] Sure, it's PvP. I'd always have fun setting up a gate camp bust op with my corp, and usually succeed.
Davien Thule	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:08:00 - [41] Originally by: Spurty oh i do miss the horrendous lag generated as people copied their 4k of wtz bookmarks and a hundred people made copies from it .. .. wait a moment! pvp is alive, it was more fun when minmatar ships could 1volley you into hull tbh, having to bring 2+ friends to break a tank was a bigger death knell That's taken care of now with their (read: CCP) new hardware to drop latency with the servers.
Spurty Caldari Technologic Dance	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:10:00 - [42] Originally by: Davien Thule That's taken care of now with their (read: CCP) new hardware to drop latency with the servers. but it only ever caused load on the system spawning copies. BrRAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiNNNNNNZzzzzzzzzzzz
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:14:00 - [43] I learned some of my most valuable lessons setting up bookmark runs. One as pointed out, gate camping is not PvP. Using noob alts to make the 30 km run to set up a gate BM, I got to see just how spaced out these people are. A good many times, they would pop the same Velator 50, 60 times knowing it was an Alpha clone and with a local respawn. Like mindless animals, they would warp in and pop the Velator over and over. It was really rather tragic to watch. Then they would get ****ed at me and smack in local because I kept coming back and 'made' them kill me, over and over like mindless animals..
Davien Thule	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:18:00 - [44] Originally by: Ocih I learned some of my most valuable lessons setting up bookmark runs. One as pointed out, gate camping is not PvP. Using noob alts to make the 30 km run to set up a gate BM, I got to see just how spaced out these people are. A good many times, they would pop the same Velator 50, 60 times knowing it was an Alpha clone and with a local respawn. Like mindless animals, they would warp in and pop the Velator over and over. It was really rather tragic to watch. Then they would get ****ed at me and smack in local because I kept coming back and 'made' them kill me, over and over like mindless animals.. So you're speaking for yourself or are you speaking out of your ass?
Spurty Caldari Technologic Dance	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:19:00 - [45] i too had the knack for creating them, could have all gates and station undock spots in minutes. i'm cool with removing wtz if you can't place a bookmark within 250 of a gate :P BrRAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiNNNNNNZzzzzzzzzzzz
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:29:00 - [46] Originally by: Davien Thule Originally by: Ocih I learned some of my most valuable lessons setting up bookmark runs. One as pointed out, gate camping is not PvP. Using noob alts to make the 30 km run to set up a gate BM, I got to see just how spaced out these people are. A good many times, they would pop the same Velator 50, 60 times knowing it was an Alpha clone and with a local respawn. Like mindless animals, they would warp in and pop the Velator over and over. It was really rather tragic to watch. Then they would get ****ed at me and smack in local because I kept coming back and 'made' them kill me, over and over like mindless animals.. So you're speaking for yourself or are you speaking out of your ass? Why?
Gneeznow Minmatar Goo Spew	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:29:00 - [47] things were a LOT more dangerous before warp to 0 which was good, now you can run around low sec with zero risk almost (sub battleship)
Darwin Duck A Quest Millitia	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:36:00 - [48] Originally by: Davien Thule Warp to 0. For the rest of you care bears it was your finest moment in this game. To all of you newbies who're just beginning I don't expect you to understand. I disagree, gatecamping scared many people away from low sec and 0.0. IMHO limiting gatecamoing will populate 0.0 and in the long run give us more PvP.
Spurty Caldari Technologic Dance	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:41:00 - [49] Originally by: Darwin Duck I disagree, gatecamping scared many people away from low sec and 0.0. IMHO limiting gatecamoing will populate 0.0 and in the long run give us more PvP. Ah something along these lines could work. How do you suggest limiting time people can congregate at a gate? I thought spawning a ton of rogue drones (no bounties) on them to clear them off every 5 mins in could work. Save on having to do mining duty as well perhaps helping more people fight BrRAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiNNNNNNZzzzzzzzzzzz
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:47:00 - [50] Originally by: Spurty Originally by: Darwin Duck I disagree, gatecamping scared many people away from low sec and 0.0. IMHO limiting gatecamoing will populate 0.0 and in the long run give us more PvP. Ah something along these lines could work. How do you suggest limiting time people can congregate at a gate? I thought spawning a ton of rogue drones (no bounties) on them to clear them off every 5 mins in could work. Save on having to do mining duty as well perhaps helping more people fight As long as they have a short despawn timer. I'm picturing the 150 concord on the gates in high sec suicide systems.
Darwin Duck A Quest Millitia	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:51:00 - [51] Originally by: Spurty Originally by: Darwin Duck I disagree, gatecamping scared many people away from low sec and 0.0. IMHO limiting gatecamoing will populate 0.0 and in the long run give us more PvP. Ah something along these lines could work. How do you suggest limiting time people can congregate at a gate? I thought spawning a ton of rogue drones (no bounties) on them to clear them off every 5 mins in could work. Save on having to do mining duty as well perhaps helping more people fight One thing they could do is make you invunerable in shuttles to make people be able to jump out to 0.0 and buy ships and establish themself out there. however this screams scouting exploits to high heaven. So , maybe some avatar transport service, just to transport your character out there, many give up after 2-3 failed attempts through 30 low.0 systems and are scared away. Not all corps can escort their new recruits out there. I want these people to get out there safe and join the fight for terretories and power! Then they can add more 0.0 systems as population grows in the outer regions. Gatecamping is lame, fleet ops hunting down red's in your backyard is the cool part of eve, but thats just my opinion. Everybody likes different things, so the Devs just have to find that perfect balance, but it's so elusive!
Spurty Caldari Technologic Dance	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:51:00 - [52] >.< could despawn the second gate is clear, no need for them when its clear. 150 Concord sounds like some of them not working and new ships spawned in but thats a digression BrRAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiNNNNNNZzzzzzzzzzzz
Kai DeathCutter	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:53:00 - [53] the thing I really miss about those days was when u went into a new region u hadn't bm'd yet, it was scary and u were at a massive disadvantage. if you were planning a campaign, first step was to get someone in to bm the main routes or u wouldnt stand a chance against the locals. once bm trading hit bigtime, yh, might aswell bring in wtz. Still think they should've used a more complex solution based on region/constellation maps that would be created by mapping the area. They could be bought/sold but not copied, maybe with a quality that would degrade over time if not used etc etc
Spurty Caldari Technologic Dance	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Kai DeathCutter the thing I really miss about those days was when u went into a new region u hadn't bm'd yet, it was scary and u were at a massive disadvantage. if you were planning a campaign, first step was to get someone in to bm the main routes or u wouldnt stand a chance against the locals. now this is why we had ships doing crazy speeds, you really needed them. I remember the relief and lag free playing the day Bookmarks got deleted and wtz arrived. I don't want that crazy load back, but would love to know I can get out to 0.0 solo to help if needed without being choked the first jump to 0.4 by a HIC and friends (motherships sitting on Nonni/Aunenen gate smartbombing 23/7?) BrRAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiNNNNNNZzzzzzzzzzzz
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:09:00 - [55] Originally by: Spurty >.< could despawn the second gate is clear, no need for them when its clear. 150 Concord sounds like some of them not working and new ships spawned in but thats a digression I think they depawn at down time and the thing that makes it silly is, if you suicide a gate and 20 Concord show up, the next guy to suicide the gate gets ignored by the concord that are there. He gets his own 20 and so on and so on. With spawns on any gate based on player interaction, they accumulate. That's the way is seems to work right now. Anyone who uses 0.0 alot knows, WTZ isn't accurate anyway. You never WTZ at an outpost. Usually 1800 m or so. Unless you see Docking or warping or jumping over your HUD, it isn't happening. No matter what is popping up on your screen. I still bookmark systems I use alot. One at around 280 km from the base or gate, one sitting on top of the base. This allows for a HIC bubble check and a true 0 dock or jump point.
Meiers	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:14:00 - [56] EVE used to be hardcore, with hardcore players excellent at adapting. Now most there is, is whining. Maybe that killed the game :)
Spurty Caldari Technologic Dance	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:15:00 - [57] Originally by: Meiers EVE used to be hardcore, with hardcore players excellent at adapting. Now most there is, is whining. Maybe that killed the game :) how dare you bring logic and observation into an irrational whine about 'how we play today' ;0 BrRAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiNNNNNNZzzzzzzzzzzz
Eva midgard Caldari the undivided Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:20:00 - [58] Originally by: Joe Only thing that ruins PVP is FOTM sheep combined with forum whiners. Prepare for Falcon nurf, then ishtar nerf, then maybe a nice rupture nurf. Bland pvp without variety is the only inevitable outcome of FOTM sheep combined with forum whiners. ^^^THIS THIS THIS YES YES YES The only true and decent comment in this thread. I love the hate gatecampers ones what they don't realise that ganking a ratting bs with 10 hacs is no different. And 200 v 200 fights are just, shoot primary, shoot secondry boring lagfest crap. If you want real pvp as you call it, convo 2bad4ux2 he will happily 1v1 you he will even say gf after he kills you, . . RIVUR'TAMS alt
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:20:00 - [59] Originally by: Meiers EVE used to be hardcore, with hardcore players excellent at adapting. Now most there is, is whining. Maybe that killed the game :) There is truth to this. Alot of nerfs came about all wrong but 'Adaptation' in EvE is get a bigger bat. They have 10 Titans, we get 12. They have 500 caps, we get 600. They brought 30 pilots to bust up our roaming gang, we come back with 50. If there was no 'whining' there would be no need for 'Adaptation'. You could just keep building a bigger and bigger bat. It's a limit to video gaming. Any video game. FF7? Play it long enough, grind the sub long enough, cloud had 255 everything and the sea monster was just in the way.
David Grogan Gallente The Motley Crew	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:21:00 - [60] Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Davien Thule Warp to 0. For the rest of you care bears it was your finest moment in this game. To all of you newbies who're just beginning I don't expect you to understand. /signed PVP no longer exists in EVE because of this. warp to 0 still doesnt counter large smart bombs.... shuttles / noobs / t1 frigates all tend to die from these low sec gate campers and their smart bombing gates if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P

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