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Create a Cloak Disrupter

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tun	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:23:00 - [1] CCP should create a module that shoots out a pulse say 50km wide that distrupts a ships cloak for 5-10sec. The module only shoots out a pulse every 15 secs and needs to be active in a highslot. Gives pvp'ers a chance to find these cloakers that like to prey on helpless ships.
ReioS Caldari THORN Syndicate Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:05:00 - [2] no
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:18:00 - [3] No ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
tun	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:48:00 - [4] hahaha too funny. Im sure i know why you guys say NO
Ziat Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:05:00 - [5] No Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:21:00 - [6] N....doh always late...
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:48:00 - [7] Do people even know the difference between this forum and Features & Ideas? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
MyOwnSling Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.27 22:16:00 - [8] Edited by: MyOwnSling on 27/01/2009 22:17:01 Originally by: An Anarchyyt Do people even know the difference between this forum and Features & Ideas? Except this is the features and id-OH WAIT
Rhadamantine Game Community	Posted - 2009.01.27 22:33:00 - [9] Originally by: tun hahaha too funny. Im sure i know why you guys say NO If you know, why post such a stupid idea?
Avion Saberis	Posted - 2009.01.28 06:06:00 - [10] umm sure just screw with the trackers too uhh. though it isn't a bad idea, only problem is then cloakers will day they need a cloak stronger then the distrupter, and it will keep going and going and going. so ya see why they don't do it. lol
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.01.28 07:36:00 - [11] and how about a probe that works only 1000km, some extra strength 'cause cloaked people would have a similar if not "worse" signature than people in plexes - putting the gist back into logistics
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:48:00 - [12] Should be in Ideas but, isnt there a dictor weapon that decloaks?
Major Celine	Posted - 2009.01.28 12:02:00 - [13] Edited by: Major Celine on 28/01/2009 12:02:52 Originally by: tun CCP should create a module that shoots out a pulse say 50km wide that distrupts a ships cloak for 5-10sec. The module only shoots out a pulse every 15 secs and needs to be active in a highslot. Gives pvp'ers a chance to find these cloakers that like to prey on helpless ships. CCP has created an even more effective module. You do not need to "find" cloakers, you have an iWin button with this. I'm not kidding! /edit: thread move requested
203 Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.28 15:42:00 - [14] What's wrong about a Cloak-scanner? It doesn't need to uncloak a Player, just let him know: "I see you. I have you locked. Uncloak and we can have a Talk..." Even more Fun if it stacks with Passive targeting Equipment. It's all fun and Games 'till someone's broke :) - T'is an alt for playing the Forum -
Metalcali Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.28 16:01:00 - [15] Nothing wrong with cloaking, so why change it?
Kalbuir	Posted - 2009.01.28 17:15:00 - [16] yes, IF the pulse is only 2,500 m
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2009.01.28 18:29:00 - [17] These have been on the database for a long time. But I don't forsee them making their way into production. It shows that CCP has been thinking of inventive ways to combat Cloaks, since it would seem that for every player who thinks they're fine... There are players who would at least like a fighting chance to find them. Personally, I don't think any device should deactivate a Cloak. My suggestion has always been for a sensor that displays distance between you and a cloaker. Then you actually have to play Hide and Seek, or maybe Marco Polo is more appropriate, in order to find them. No instant "iWin" buttons, just new tactics. --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
NightF0x Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:30:00 - [18] Originally by: Marcus Gideon These have been on the database for a long time. But I don't forsee them making their way into production. It shows that CCP has been thinking of inventive ways to combat Cloaks, since it would seem that for every player who thinks they're fine... There are players who would at least like a fighting chance to find them. Personally, I don't think any device should deactivate a Cloak. My suggestion has always been for a sensor that displays distance between you and a cloaker. Then you actually have to play Hide and Seek, or maybe Marco Polo is more appropriate, in order to find them. No instant "iWin" buttons, just new tactics. And this idea is also fail because you could easily triangulate with a group. Leave cloaks alone. There is a huge penalty for using one...like a 30 second delay in locking after you decloak. If you can't warp away in 30 seconds then you need a different ship. As for covert ops ships, that is their role. If you make ways to detect them then they are useless. ------------------------------------
Ahkali Ahline Minmatar Fire Wings of Destiny Brotherhood of Nod.	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:45:00 - [19] I do 90% of my exploring in lo sec with my cheetah. My ONLY defense is cloaking. No, on any type of decloak.
203 Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:53:00 - [20] Originally by: NightF0x And this idea is also fail because you could easily triangulate with a group. Leave cloaks alone. There is a huge penalty for using one...like a 30 second delay in locking after you decloak. If you can't warp away in 30 seconds then you need a different ship. As for covert ops ships, that is their role. If you make ways to detect them then they are useless. You still wouldn't be seen. Ever played Tag! in the Dark without Flashlights? Counter to this Module: Speed. Keep moving around them, orbit this Ship, orbit that Ship, laugh while they play Battleships. Until CCP allows Shots into the blue it won't kill you. Only Thing that I'm afraid of is insta-pawn at Gatecamps, that 'jumpcloak' would need to be an alternate Mode to the Module induced one. It's all fun and Games 'till someone's broke :) - T'is an alt for playing the Forum -
Shaka Quatuic	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:58:00 - [21] Edited by: Shaka Quatuic on 28/01/2009 19:59:03 even I say NO to decloak module implemented like that. gtting on the grid (but nowhere near 0m resolution... more like 100km resolution) as a safespotted cloaker yes - after a great deal of effort in probing which the cloaker can see using the directional, and apply evasive tactics to accomodate for. cloaking should be an extremely effective means to hide whether on or off grid not an impervious 'I Win by Doing Nothing' button.
Zaiyo Modi Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:10:00 - [22] I was thinking that another way to implement de-cloaking, could be to have a ship or pos module to emit trans-fusionary-sillyfying-nanobeams for a small or large area, slowly rendering a cov ops cloak field to a dimminished 0. After some time, with cloak strength at 0, the cloak module is turned off. This is ofc complemented with a cov-ops-pilot's option to counter this, by simply pushing a button on the GUI to tilt the cloak-requencies in his favour for the next hour or so. This way, 23/7 off-keyboard cloakers are found while at-keyboard cloakers can stay safe. Off-keyboard cloakers would need to check their GUI every hour even if there are no hotiles at time 0, but hostiles might appear hours later and put up a decloak field, keeping 23/7 cloakers a little busy every hour.
Shaka Quatuic	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:16:00 - [23] Originally by: Zaiyo Modi I was thinking that another way to implement de-cloaking, could be to have a ship or pos module to emit trans-fusionary-sillyfying-nanobeams for a small or large area, slowly rendering a cov ops cloak field to a dimminished 0. After some time, with cloak strength at 0, the cloak module is turned off. This is ofc complemented with a cov-ops-pilot's option to counter this, by simply pushing a button on the GUI to tilt the cloak-requencies in his favour for the next hour or so. This way, 23/7 off-keyboard cloakers are found while at-keyboard cloakers can stay safe. Off-keyboard cloakers would need to check their GUI every hour even if there are no hotiles at time 0, but hostiles might appear hours later and put up a decloak field, keeping 23/7 cloakers a little busy every hour. while creative, this approach is too hands-off. hunters should be able to keep cloakers on their toes a bit more than this suggestion would allow. it requires nothing more than a button press on the part of the cloaker - no course or position changes, no monitoring of the directional scanner... nothing.
NightF0x Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:27:00 - [24] Originally by: Shaka Quatuic Originally by: Zaiyo Modi I was thinking that another way to implement de-cloaking, could be to have a ship or pos module to emit trans-fusionary-sillyfying-nanobeams for a small or large area, slowly rendering a cov ops cloak field to a dimminished 0. After some time, with cloak strength at 0, the cloak module is turned off. This is ofc complemented with a cov-ops-pilot's option to counter this, by simply pushing a button on the GUI to tilt the cloak-requencies in his favour for the next hour or so. This way, 23/7 off-keyboard cloakers are found while at-keyboard cloakers can stay safe. Off-keyboard cloakers would need to check their GUI every hour even if there are no hotiles at time 0, but hostiles might appear hours later and put up a decloak field, keeping 23/7 cloakers a little busy every hour. while creative, this approach is too hands-off. hunters should be able to keep cloakers on their toes a bit more than this suggestion would allow. it requires nothing more than a button press on the part of the cloaker - no course or position changes, no monitoring of the directional scanner... nothing. And why should there be anything to detect cloaks? Cloaks are cloaks and are not meant to be found. What is so shocking for someone to have a cloak? So someone sits in a system waiting for someone to come along that he can kill. He uncloaks...then what? He has a 30 second delay before he can even lock on anything. Sorry but if you can't scramble out in 30 seconds then you deserve to die. Instead of being in a BS the guy is in a covert ops. The worse that he can do is lock you down. He doesn't have more than 1 gun and (maybe) 1-2 light drones (not sure if any covert ops have a drone bay, i know that Amarr doesn't). It's not like he is going to do a BS much harm. Now I hear all you carebears that somehow got trapped in null-sec screaming...'BUT HE LOCKS DOWN OUR SYSTEM FOR HOURS'. If you can't venture out of the station while a red is in your system then you have more issues than can be solved here. Get over the fear of loosing something in this game. Cloaks aren't the issue, it's your inability to not focus on that one red icon in your local channel. Grow a pair and venture out of the station and try to find him. If that fails then do the same thing to them in their space. ------------------------------------
Shaka Quatuic	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:36:00 - [25] what we need is a special kind of bomb launcher... call it the HedgeHog (yeah its a historical reference... so what?) this bomb launcher is fitted specifically to destroyers, and kicks special bombs out along a vector defined by the player's camera aim at a speed of 1.5km/sec. these special bombs - much smaller and less expensive, but with significantly less damage potential than their stealth bomber counterparts - detonate after coasting along their path for 10 seconds, and have a blast radius of 10km. the blast from these charges does not disrupt the cloak of a vessel that may encounter it, but said vessel will take the blast damage directly to armor - bypassing shields. a single hit from this bomb cannot destroy even the flimsiest of covert ops frigates, but multiple close detonations could prove a survival risk to even cruiser sized vessels.
NightF0x Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Shaka Quatuic what we need is a special kind of bomb launcher... call it the HedgeHog (yeah its a historical reference... so what?) this bomb launcher is fitted specifically to destroyers, and kicks special bombs out along a vector defined by the player's camera aim at a speed of 1.5km/sec. these special bombs - much smaller and less expensive, but with significantly less damage potential than their stealth bomber counterparts - detonate after coasting along their path for 10 seconds, and have a blast radius of 10km. the blast from these charges does not disrupt the cloak of a vessel that may encounter it, but said vessel will take the blast damage directly to armor - bypassing shields. a single hit from this bomb cannot destroy even the flimsiest of covert ops frigates, but multiple close detonations could prove a survival risk to even cruiser sized vessels. Even worse than your other ideas...sorry but just stop and leave cloaks alone ------------------------------------
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:44:00 - [27] Due to the sporatic and repetative nature of F&I, I had to go back to page 7... To find where Shaka and I have been discussing this exact same topic. No one (with any sense) is arguing for a nerf to Cloaks. No one is asking for an instant iWin button. They're only asking for the opportunity to fight back. Currently, the Cloak IS an iWin button. You fly in some random direction, and activate it. You are now completely immune to everything, unless the opposition happens to bump into you, or sets off a bomb/DD. You could be at the other end of the system, or casually orbiting their POS. And they'd never know the difference. Now... I do agree fully, that anything which renders the Cloak inactive, no matter the duration... Is a devastating blow to the idea of spying and sneaking. However, it is fully within the realm of possibility to provide for a means to combat such tactics used against you. Never in the history of mankind, has one side of a conflict invented some new toy... That the other side wasn't trying to find a way around it. It's completely rediculous to say "Cloaks are fine, leave them alone" like some long haired YouTube member. Cloaks are allowing completely free reign observation and avoidance. And while I am an advocate of proper tactical advantages... total and complete immunity is too much. If you could Probe down the Cloak, using either a set of Gravimetric exploration probes (due to lots of Grav tech in Cloak construction) or using an entirely new set of probes (due to the epic Exploration changes coming with Apocrypha) you could find out what grid they're hiding in. Once there, you can begin scanning with my proposed Hunter module. Using a high slot, with a lengthy scan cycle, and an obvious Overview signal that someone is scanning... an attentive CovOps pilot is completely capable of moving about to avoid capture. While an AFK player, who only parked to harass the Locals, will be triangulated, bumped, and destroyed. Harsh? I don't think so, when that same pilot has probably heard "Don't AP long trips, there's always the chance of suicide ganks". Well... Don't sit cloaked all day, there's always the chance you'll get probed down and ganked. Cloaks already have enough drawbacks. They don't need further reduction or penalties. But... They do need a means of balance. --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
Shaka Quatuic	Posted - 2009.01.28 21:05:00 - [28] Edited by: Shaka Quatuic on 28/01/2009 21:29:48 Edited by: Shaka Quatuic on 28/01/2009 21:22:25 Originally by: NightF0x Even worse than your other ideas...sorry but just stop and leave cloaks alone guess what? your side - as advocates of leaving cloaks alone - needs to justify your position just as much as our side needs to justify why a means to get on the same grid as a safespotted cloaker is needed. arguments like 'cloaks are fine as they are' or 'cloaks are cloaks and not meant to be found' are opinion or in the case of the 'not meant' quote imply a weakness that can be exploited by a hunting force, and are not evidentiary for the purpose of establishing your point in any case. Originally by: NightFox Grow a pair and venture out of the station and try to find him. nice try, but you see the idea of going out to find a cloaker requires the ability to TRACK DOWN his general vicinity.
NightF0x Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists	Posted - 2009.01.28 22:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Shaka Quatuic Edited by: Shaka Quatuic on 28/01/2009 21:29:48 Edited by: Shaka Quatuic on 28/01/2009 21:22:25 Originally by: NightF0x Even worse than your other ideas...sorry but just stop and leave cloaks alone guess what? your side - as advocates of leaving cloaks alone - needs to justify your position just as much as our side needs to justify why a means to get on the same grid as a safespotted cloaker is needed. arguments like 'cloaks are fine as they are' or 'cloaks are cloaks and not meant to be found' are opinion or in the case of the 'not meant' quote imply a weakness that can be exploited by a hunting force, and are not evidentiary for the purpose of establishing your point in any case. Originally by: NightFox Grow a pair and venture out of the station and try to find him. nice try, but you see the idea of going out to find a cloaker requires the ability to TRACK DOWN his general vicinity. I fail to see how we have to justify an existing game mechanic. I'm not the one trying to persuade CCP to change something. That justification falls upon those that take that stance. The fact is there are penalties and ways to decloak a cloaked ship. Just because you don't like those methods doesn't mean that they are invalid. ------------------------------------
NightF0x Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists	Posted - 2009.01.28 22:37:00 - [30] Originally by: Shaka Quatuic nice try, but you see the idea of going out to find a cloaker requires the ability to TRACK DOWN his general vicinity. How do you know that he is cloaked? Are you constantly running scan probes to locate him? He could just be warping constantly between safe spots. The fact is that you have no idea where someone is in your system and that scares you, admit it. If you are out mining with a hostile in the area then use some protection. I doubt very much that you will be bothered, unless they know that they can take your bodyguards out. ------------------------------------

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