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Diek Ran
Amarr
Autonums
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:13:00 -
[31]
RL is pretty unbalanced, too.
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Funk solitude
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:20:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Haakelen
IMO, no, it's completely fine. But this is a nice time point out, again, that every single method of for-profit suicide ganking is preventable by the targeted pilot taking proper precautions. The only suicide ganks that are guaranteed to succeed are massive overkills for laughs/revenge.
So in this case would my proper precautions be praying to the lag gods "FFS unlag me now, there's gankers about"?
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Haakelen
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:23:00 -
[33]
Do you honestly think he made an appreciable amount of money off that?
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ToTheCore
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:31:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Funk solitude
So in this case would my proper precautions be praying to the lag gods "FFS unlag me now, there's gankers about"?
I'd say in this case proper precautions would be:
- Don't go to Jita
- Get a better ISP
- Turn off effects
- Don't go to Jita
- Use brackets
- Jump through instead of sitting at the gate
---
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Sorted
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:33:00 -
[35]
btw> I know how this works, I know how long it takes to get into position and get the bombs off AFTER your "lagged" ass didnt Ewarp into systme like everyone does when its busy.
your "lagged" ship was in system for a good 60 secs b4 de cloaking - and his hit time at best would be a few minutes after that.....
admit it. you went afk and now have to buy some new toys  
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Hairy Sue
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:33:00 -
[36]
pssst
pssst
target is lying
pssst
target was on autopilot
pssst
target sat afk on gate for over 5 mins before he was spotted
pssst
afk pilot is ganked in eve shocker ..... hold the press
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Diek Ran
Amarr
Autonums
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:35:00 -
[37]
"Balanced" doesn't mean that nobody has a reason to complain.
"Balanced" also doesn't mean that there are no winners or no losers.
Imbalance is what drives dynamic systems.
Balance has to be achieved on a universal level, which of course is true for RL.
I wouldn't judge EVE's balance based on my personal disappointments.
Suicide ganking is a valid part of EVE gameplay. It is the result of creating and discharging imbalance.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Hairy Sue
pssst
pssst
target is lying
pssst
target was on autopilot
pssst
target sat afk on gate for over 5 mins before he was spotted
pssst
afk pilot is ganked in eve shocker ..... hold the press
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:41:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Funk solitude
Originally by: Haakelen
IMO, no, it's completely fine. But this is a nice time point out, again, that every single method of for-profit suicide ganking is preventable by the targeted pilot taking proper precautions. The only suicide ganks that are guaranteed to succeed are massive overkills for laughs/revenge.
So in this case would my proper precautions be praying to the lag gods "FFS unlag me now, there's gankers about"?
Or having a properly tanked ship... 
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Funk solitude
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:42:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Haakelen
Do you honestly think he made an appreciable amount of money off that?
woohoo someone see's my point. If I was in an industrial carrying 200+mil worth of stuff I wouldn't be surprised for someone to take a sec hit and pop me for my loot, but to pop me to make 10-20mil(if the pithi booster popped as well he woulda made a loss on the kill) got me very surprised, it must be that easy for him to avoid the penalties for high sec ganking that he can do it at will. this didn't seemed very balanced to me, hence i asked for others feed back on the forums.
High-sec ganking someone, taking the sec hit then working to regain sec status(ratting etc)= balanced
High sec ganking someone, avoiding all penalties, and repeating again and again = not balanced
that's my opinion. |
Sorted
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:46:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Funk solitude
High sec ganking someone, avoiding all penalties, and repeating again and again = not balanced
that's my opinion.
he risked 10m for a 50/50 30m loot drop.. seemed balanced to me
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Hairy Sue
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Posted - 2009.01.29 02:04:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Funk solitude
stuff
pssst
target does not deny he was lying about being active
pssst
i know as i war watching his ship
pssst
stay at the keyboard pilots ... you dont get blown up :)
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Aya Sin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.29 05:01:00 -
[43]
Is this still on the table?
Originally by: CCP Fear
In addition, the highly requested feature of removal of insurance in CONCORD related events will be implemented in the near future.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=577
This was five or six months ago. I was under the impression they already made this change... 
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ToTheCore
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.29 05:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Aya Sin
Is this still on the table?
Originally by: CCP Fear
In addition, the highly requested feature of removal of insurance in CONCORD related events will be implemented in the near future.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=577
This was five or six months ago. I was under the impression they already made this change...
It's not like that will prevent suicide ganking if someone wants to kill somebody else badly enough. TBH, I don't even think most people care about not losing too much money due to insurance. I think the majority do it because of an obscene amount of ISK located in someone's ship that could potentially be theirs or just purely for the lulz.
---
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ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.01.29 05:41:00 -
[45]
ist still possible that means its balanced
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Funk solitude
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Posted - 2009.01.29 05:54:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Hairy Sue
pssst
target does not deny he was lying about being active
pssst
i know as i war watching his ship
pssst
stay at the keyboard pilots ... you dont get blown up :)
This has no bearing on the question asked in the OP, it is an attempt to nitpick the post to try and muddy the waters, for the record I was trying to jump out of jita, I was lagging badly at a gate so I went to the toilet when I came back I had stopped lagging and was in my pod, I never lied, I never said I wasn't afk.
wether a pilot was afk or not means nothing, it is only a self justification from people that don't deserve to be in that part of new eden.
To me the real problem with this scenario is not ppl afk momentarily at a gate. It is someone who has -10 security rating in high sec in a (combat) ship, killing people with no aggression flag. they should only be in these systems in a pod as they have voided their rights to be able to operate ships in high sec.
This is intrinsic to the way the game is played: 0.0, low-sec and high-sec are there to keep people of differing security statuses from each other, if this wasn't the case no new players would ever play this game.
these factors don't mean that a player shouldn't be able to unlawfully kill another player's ship or pod (suicide ganking), It does mean tho that you have to earn the right to be lawfully in high-sec in a ship, before you can unlawfully kill another player.
So I hope soon CCP make changes to keep the outlaws from operating in high sec, and leave the suicide ganking to the people who deserve to be there.
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ToTheCore
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.29 06:19:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Funk solitude
To me the real problem with this scenario is not ppl afk momentarily at a gate. It is someone who has -10 security rating in high sec in a (combat) ship, killing people with no aggression flag. they should only be in these systems in a pod as they have voided their rights to be able to operate ships in high sec.
No....just no. They have not voided their rights to do anything other than be in high sec space without the faction navies chasing their ass around.
Originally by: Funk solitude
So I hope soon CCP make changes to keep the outlaws from operating in high sec, and leave the suicide ganking to the people who deserve to be there.
So you're suggesting completely restricting the actions of some players because they chose to have a low sec status? Does that mean that CCP should prevent players with a 5.0 sec status from getting bounties since they don't really deserve them anymore?
---
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.29 07:41:00 -
[48]
The only problem I see here is insurance.
Remove insurance when you commiting a crime and everything is gona be fine.
The ganker at this km lost somthing like 20m by getting his bs killed by concord.
Remove insurance payouts and you solved the the hole "worthless" suicide thingy.
Gankers can still suicide juicy targets but they will think twice who they gank.
________________________________________________
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Joe
Umbra Legion
Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.01.29 07:48:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Zeveron
The only problem I see here is insurance.
Remove insurance when you commiting a crime and everything is gona be fine.
The ganker at this km lost somthing like 20m by getting his bs killed by concord.
Remove insurance payouts and you solved the the hole "worthless" suicide thingy.
Gankers can still suicide juicy targets but they will think twice who they gank.
I agree totally that Insurace payouts for ships lost to ded/concord is complete rubbish...
But whats stopping Guistas or Sansha's offering the same type of 'insurance' for piolts disrupting empire operations and cuasing mayhem in empire?
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Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 08:20:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Joe
Originally by: Zeveron
The only problem I see here is insurance.
Remove insurance when you commiting a crime and everything is gona be fine.
The ganker at this km lost somthing like 20m by getting his bs killed by concord.
Remove insurance payouts and you solved the the hole "worthless" suicide thingy.
Gankers can still suicide juicy targets but they will think twice who they gank.
I agree totally that Insurace payouts for ships lost to ded/concord is complete rubbish...
But whats stopping Guistas or Sansha's offering the same type of 'insurance' for piolts disrupting empire operations and cuasing mayhem in empire?
So get rid of it alltogether. Insurance doesn't make sense from an rp perspective no matter what the circumstances are, so you don't need Guri or Sansha to "rp it up".
But yeah, we've been through this many times in previous threads.
Insurance voids the "suicide" part of so called suicide ganking (i.e. no cost, or very little cost for the lazy).
Blinkies boarding ships in space voids what remains of that "consequences to your actions" bit, that people sometimes go on about. I.e. when your sec-rating is very low, the resulting downward change is very small, but the upward change is very large. So at some point the effort needed to undo the latest sec hit (if you ever bother to do that) becomes negligeable, whereas if you are closer to 0 the effort/time needed to undue an identical (percentage based) sec hit would be a whole different story. (Still too easy, but that's another discussion entirely.
I wrote this... explanation because Tippia might start talking about psychology if I didn't explain how it's a technical issue, not one of psychology.
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MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.29 08:32:00 -
[51]
My point of view depends on what really happen here. If the pirate with the -10 sec standing had the Faction navy chasing him down to kill him while he zip over to sucide gank someone then I am fine with it.
But the OP makes it sound like the guy is hanging out in the system with out any police coming after him unitl concord of course pop him after the gank. I dont know how the game mechanic work, but one way I think is wrong (ie hanging out with no police after him) and the other way is just fine (him running from police while he zips up and ganks someone).
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.29 11:56:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Lady Aja
you CANNOT undock from a station witha sec stat worse than -5.0. you will get locked down and shot at till you die or you redock no way can you even warp off
All of this is incorrect. It's perfectly ok to undock while an outlaw. You will not get locked down and shot at. You will only draw som faction navy response (not CONCORD), and the navies are specifically designed to be avoidable, so getting away is possible by very design.
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Wait a minute with all this "you can't undock as a red flashy" stuff. I thought that you can't undock without CONCORD coming after you ONLY IF you get killed by CONCORD, dock in your pod, get a new ship, and undock before the countdown expires.
Faction navies don't scram you, and Jita isn't a CONCORD-sovereignty system (is it?) So yes, you should be able to not only undock with -5 status (as long as you don't have a GCC) and even fly around, as long as you can handle faction navy damage for a bit.
This is correct. People just get the navy forces mixed up with CONCORD. The former will hunt you on sight; the latter will only hunt you if you do somethign bad. The former will let you get away (including outtanking them or just warping off); avoiding the latter will get you banned. The former will kill you if your tank is crap; the latter will kill you… period (and again, avoiding it is an exploit).
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Atnal
One trick I read on these forums was to create an disposible alt, have it attack you, then use the CONCORD ships that responded to you for protection against other suicide-gankers.
This is actually considered "illegal" by CCP I believe, or maybe it was labelled as an Exploit. Either way, i'm pretty sure you're not allowed to do this anymore.
Last I heard, conjuring up CONCORD isn't an exploit, but using a disposable alt (i.e. one that gets recycled when his sec status gets too low) to avoid the penalty for doign so is.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Sorted
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 11:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Funk solitude
Originally by: Hairy Sue
pssst
target does not deny he was lying about being active
pssst
i know as i war watching his ship
pssst
stay at the keyboard pilots ... you dont get blown up :)
This has no bearing on the question asked in the OP, it is an attempt to nitpick the post to try and muddy the waters, for the record I was trying to jump out of jita, I was lagging badly at a gate so I went to the toilet when I came back I had stopped lagging and was in my pod, I never lied, I never said I wasn't afk.
wether a pilot was afk or not means nothing, it is only a self justification from people that don't deserve to be in that part of new eden.
To me the real problem with this scenario is not ppl afk momentarily at a gate. It is someone who has -10 security rating in high sec in a (combat) ship, killing people with no aggression flag. they should only be in these systems in a pod as they have voided their rights to be able to operate ships in high sec.
This is intrinsic to the way the game is played: 0.0, low-sec and high-sec are there to keep people of differing security statuses from each other, if this wasn't the case no new players would ever play this game.
these factors don't mean that a player shouldn't be able to unlawfully kill another player's ship or pod (suicide ganking), It does mean tho that you have to earn the right to be lawfully in high-sec in a ship, before you can unlawfully kill another player.
So I hope soon CCP make changes to keep the outlaws from operating in high sec, and leave the suicide ganking to the people who deserve to be there.
SO! you warped to Zero on theg ate and THEN went afk due to "lag" - he obvisuoly wasnt lagging, and bumped your ship off the gate and then (smartbombs cant fire within range of the gate) AND THEN killed you, podded you, stole your stuffs and lulled.
LOL!
He took the time to play the game and you took the time to take a dump. He then rolled a 50/50 drop chance and gambled 10m in the process - after putting the effort in.
Personally i dont get outa the station for less than 150m
But it seems balanced to me mate.
my advice? Eat more prunes and cry less
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 13:30:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Funk solitude
To me the real problem with this scenario is not ppl afk momentarily at a gate. It is someone who has -10 security rating in high sec in a (combat) ship, killing people with no aggression flag.
Why is this a problem? Oh, and they do get an aggression flag when they attack you… not that you need to care about that since the mere fact that they're -10 means that you can attack them anyway.
Quote:
This is intrinsic to the way the game is played: 0.0, low-sec and high-sec are there to keep people of differing security statuses from each other, if this wasn't the case no new players would ever play this game.
I think you've misunderstood what the security ratings are for, and the fact that tons of new players have been playing this game since its inception proves your assertion wrong. Sec rating is just a measurement of the amount of punishment you get for doing bad things (highsec = high punishment, lowsec = low punishment, nosec = no punishment) — flying around is not a bad thing.
Quote:
So I hope soon CCP make changes to keep the outlaws from operating in high sec, and leave the suicide ganking to the people who deserve to be there.
Why don't they deserve to be there? |
Adara Algar
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 13:36:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Adara Algar on 29/01/2009 13:36:31
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Expencive Tastes
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 13:39:00 -
[56]
right time to set the matter straight, funk solitude is a noob and a liar, his ship was destroyed on the sobeseki gate after he jumped into jita as his ship was 20km off it, he was afk from 3-5mins and at the time there about 350 ppl in local so the only lag he could of experienced was from the comp screen to the small brain in is head.
i wont go into the details, but if CCP didnt want this sort of thing to happen they wouldnt of invented such a thing as a cargo/ship scanner.
in summary:
Ganking = good
Whining = bad
funk solitude = liar/noob
thank you for your time. |
Haalanii
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 13:42:00 -
[57]
You can make isk much faster with less unpredictability doing many other things.
Stop trying to make it so guns won't fire in high sec. Eve is just not that kind of game.
My opinion - your fault for now warping to zero and jumping on contact. Computer sucks? Again, though I feel for you, it is not a problem with game mechanics. |
Funk solitude
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 16:42:00 -
[58]
Originally by: MilowFV
My point of view depends on what really happen here. If the pirate with the -10 sec standing had the Faction navy chasing him down to kill him while he zip over to sucide gank someone then I am fine with it.
But the OP makes it sound like the guy is hanging out in the system with out any police coming after him unitl concord of course pop him after the gank. I dont know how the game mechanic work, but one way I think is wrong (ie hanging out with no police after him) and the other way is just fine (him running from police while he zips up and ganks someone).
Yes the -10 ganker and his hauler alt hangs out in jita all day, somehow he avoids the attention of the caldari police. they have both posted in this thread 2 & 3 posts above this one.
Originally by: Expencive Tastes
right time to set the matter straight, funk solitude is a noob and a liar, his ship was destroyed on the sobeseki gate after he jumped into jita as his ship was 20km off it, he was afk from 3-5mins and at the time there about 350 ppl in local so the only lag he could of experienced was from the comp screen to the small brain in is head.
To be called a liar/noob and having a diminished brain is quite offensive, more so that non of them are true.
The point I am trying to argue here is you are side stepping the sec status rules and their intended use, so stop flaming and get to the nitty gritty.
To most of the other posters Pls read the effin post, and stop this rhetorical replying of "it's eve, ganking should be allowed, its the nature of the game"
I BELIEVE THIS TOO,
Ganking is a part of the game,
If i was ganked by a player with a sec rating above -2, I wouldn't have a beef with it.
I just think that an outlaw shouldn't be flying round high sec ganking ppl,
FFS a little dialog box comes up stating that "You have entered Caldari space ***** *****(pilot name), where criminals will not be tolerated!" when an outlaw boards a ship in hisec space (or undocks/jumps thru)
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 17:18:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Funk solitude
Yes the -10 ganker and his hauler alt hangs out in jita all day, somehow he avoids the attention of the caldari police. they have both posted in this thread 2 & 3 posts above this one.
This is by design.
Quote:
If i was ganked by a player with a sec rating above -2, I wouldn't have a beef with it.
Why this artificial limit? It has nothing to do with any of the existing mechanics.
Quote:
I just think that an outlaw shouldn't be flying round high sec ganking ppl, FFS a little dialog box comes up stating that "You have entered Caldari space ***** *****(pilot name), where criminals will not be tolerated!" when an outlaw boards a ship in hisec space (or undocks/jumps thru)
… which further shows that there is nothing strange about what happened to you. They've implemented a mechanic that gives outlaws minor worries when travelling through civilized space. They've included mechanics that make it possible to dodge the navies. As it happens, they've also given you a mechanic that allows you to nuke him back to the stone age just for being there, so why don't you use it?
Why does the mechanics need changing? He's using them to their fullest, why don't you? Why do the rules need to be pushed even further in your favour when you haven't even begun to take advantage of the vast amount of options that already exist?
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Sorted
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 17:22:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Funk solitude
To be called a liar/noob and having a diminished brain is quite offensive, more so that non of them are true.
The point I am trying to argue here is you are side stepping the sec status rules and their intended use, so stop flaming and get to the nitty gritty.
we are at the nitty gritty - but how can we be expect to listen to you when you lie constantly
fact of the matter is you went AFK and lost your stuff to a gank.
Its harder to gank when -10 - ergo he's paying the price for being -10, hes dealing with the police who arent as ott as concord, if he wanted an easier gank he should rat.
It shouldnt be impossible to gank and you agree.
If you want to undock sit at the keyboard and dont AP to jita.
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