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Ok then, another angle: Is the Falcon in-line with other races Recons?

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Ivorr Bigun	Posted - 2009.01.29 09:56:00 - [1] What I am interested in is the question in the title. Would it be fair to say that the Falcon is the ONLY recon worth flying now? If it is better than the others what do they need, or what needs doing to the falcon to bring it into line? This is the usual spurious request but please try and put your ZOMG nerf-it/I trained all my alts to fly Falcons in the 9,000 other threads concerning this.
Rhadamantine Game Community	Posted - 2009.01.29 10:00:00 - [2] Moar Falcon threads, that's what we need................ Regards. Rhadamantine.
bff Jill	Posted - 2009.01.29 10:17:00 - [3] Give minmatar recons a scrambler range bonus also, since disabling MWDs is also an important part of 'slowing stuff down' now. Make it so nos fit on amarr recons work like noses worked before the nos nerf Impliment the ECCM burst modules and give gallente recons a bonus to those.
Camilo Cienfuegos Earned In Blood	Posted - 2009.01.29 10:22:00 - [4] Curse & Pilgrim both work, and unlike the falcon these ships can to an extent be used solo. The Falcon is a one trick pony, and that is the source of any trouble with it. Or rather it's not the Falcon that's the problem but the Rook! Give the rook some more shield HP and maybe even an extra low and you'll see less falcons floating around. One client: Three Screens!
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.01.29 11:34:00 - [5] LEAVE FALCON ALOOOOONE LEAVE IT ALOOOONE!
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:17:00 - [6] no, the other recons are also worth it, just each for a different reason/purpose --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
daisy dook	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:24:00 - [7] While we're at it can I have a Caldari HAC in line with a Zealot?
P'uck	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:25:00 - [8] "Worth it" is very much a matter of perspective, isn't it? Of course, all the recons are somewhat useful... but if you look at the recons that participate in fights, I'm almost willing to bet my puny wallet (ingame) that falcons have the smallest percentage of lossmails, only alleviated by myriads of carebears now jumping into that ship. Gief force raccoons even grountz plox.
Major Celine	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:30:00 - [9] Originally by: daisy dook While we're at it can I have a Caldari HAC in line with a Zealot? Yeah, good idea. Seconded. Can I have a Minmatar BS which is in line with the Megathron or Apoc please?
ry ry	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:33:00 - [10] Edited by: ry ry on 29/01/2009 12:35:08 falcons are seriously in need of a boost. a) they do NOT have a drone bay b) they cannot shoot people from the ranges they operate in c) they cannot tank properly with a decent ECM setup d) caldari suck e) they are the slower than titans f) they cannot spider tank from the ranges they operate in g) they always come near the bottom of the damage list on killmails h) there is a chance an ECM MODULE will do NOTHING for upto the ENTIRE DURATION OF IT'S CYCLE i) some other ships are overpowered. particularly gallente, minmatar and amarr ships. j) they cannot use a jump drive
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:39:00 - [11] Quote: falcons are seriously in need of a boost. a) they do NOT have a drone bay b) they cannot shoot people from the ranges they operate in c) they cannot tank properly with a decent ECM setup d) caldari suck e) they are the slower than titans f) they cannot spider tank from the ranges they operate in g) they always come near the bottom of the damage list on killmails h) there is a chance an ECM MODULE will do NOTHING for upto the ENTIRE DURATION OF IT'S CYCLE i) some other ships are overpowered. particularly gallente, minmatar and amarr ships. j) they cannot use a jump drive You troll, but I've highlighted a few things that in all honesty should be done to the Rook...
Major Celine	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:42:00 - [12] Originally by: ry ry Edited by: ry ry on 29/01/2009 12:35:08 falcons are seriously in need of a boost. I think it is fine. If this is one of your troll posts, then I smell some bitterness... This thread can be closed imho, we have so many threads about Falcons already...
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:46:00 - [13] Edited by: TimMc on 29/01/2009 12:46:28 Falcon, as someone else said, is a one trick pony and a damn good one. Other recons are flexible and fun to fly. Tbh, this is what needs to happy to falcon and rook. Move them close, give them more to do and more options. - Reduce the ECM range, maybe buff the strength to compensate. - Give dronebay and more hp. More speed too. - Give a secondary ewar bonus like the other races have. Would be funny to see a nano-rook that spews heavy missiles and light drones, orbiting from 50km.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 13:05:00 - [14] Originally by: Ivorr Bigun Would it be fair to say that the Falcon is the ONLY recon worth flying now? No its ok in gangs against poorly setup ships but against a good versatile gang it sucks. The other recons are great solo ships while the falcon is useless without a good ammount of support for tackling, dmg dealing ect ect. Originally by: Ivorr Bigun If it is better than the others what do they need, or what needs doing to the falcon to bring it into line? Nothing, if the other recons are poor in gang combat that is not a falcon issue. Fix the others ffs, do not break the falcon.
ry ry	Posted - 2009.01.29 13:07:00 - [15] Originally by: lecrotta Fix the others ffs, do not break the falcon. i agree BOOST THE FALCON CCP!
o0TuNa0o Idle Miners	Posted - 2009.01.29 14:50:00 - [16] Shut up about falcons ffs. Haven't you all got better things to do than make more threads? Go play a game or something.. oh wait... TuNa
Linnth Amarr Darkill Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 16:25:00 - [17] Give the Falcon a jamming range of 12 km. Then we can call it all good. Same range as the pilgrim has.
Linnth Amarr Darkill Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 16:26:00 - [18] Originally by: daisy dook While we're at it can I have a Caldari HAC in line with a Zealot? You mean the Cerberus?
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.01.29 17:04:00 - [19] Originally by: Linnth Originally by: daisy dook While we're at it can I have a Caldari HAC in line with a Zealot? You mean the Cerberus? This was my thought too; doesn't the cerb get like 400 dps out to like 200+ km? On-topic: One problem with comparing the falcon/rook to other recons is that the other recons aren't NEARLY as focused ships. The amarr recons are drone/TD/neut ships, the gallente recons are gun/missile/damp/warp disruptor ships, the minmatar recons are web/paint/shield buffer/nano/some guns... the caldari recons are just ECM. So it follows that if you're looking for a ship that's pure ewar, well, the one with bonuses to pure ewar are going to be the best ones.
Major Celine	Posted - 2009.01.29 17:10:00 - [20] Originally by: Terianna Eri Originally by: Linnth Originally by: daisy dook While we're at it can I have a Caldari HAC in line with a Zealot? You mean the Cerberus? This was my thought too; doesn't the cerb get like 400 dps out to like 200+ km? Lol yeah, DPS is what counts. Originally by: Terianna Eri On-topic: One problem with comparing the falcon/rook to other recons is that the other recons aren't NEARLY as focused ships. The amarr recons are drone/TD/neut ships, the gallente recons are gun/missile/damp/warp disruptor ships, the minmatar recons are web/paint/shield buffer/nano/some guns... the caldari recons are just ECM. So it follows that if you're looking for a ship that's pure ewar, well, the one with bonuses to pure ewar are going to be the best ones. So the question is: Make all races' ships equal (either through buffing or nerfing) or keep races different with various advantages and disadvantages? This is a general problem and not only focused on the Falcon / other recons topic.
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.01.29 17:13:00 - [21] Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
kor anon Amarr The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.01.29 17:15:00 - [22] Falcon is overrated. It is not an I-WIN ship. Boost other recons such as the rapier, hug, arazu and lachiesis.
Ivorr Bigun	Posted - 2009.01.29 17:31:00 - [23] so in that case remove all extra roles from the other Recons but give them the same advantages the Falcon has? 100km+ webber rapier 100km+ damper Arazu 100km+ neut Pilgrim sounds good dunnit?
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.01.29 18:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Linnth Give the Falcon a jamming range of 12 km. Then we can call it all good. Same range as the pilgrim has. Then you must make it able to tank and deal enough damage to kill the things a pilgrim can as well as giving it a drone bay.
kor anon Amarr The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.01.29 18:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Ivorr Bigun so in that case remove all extra roles from the other Recons but give them the same advantages the Falcon has? 100km+ webber rapier 100km+ damper Arazu 100km+ neut Pilgrim sounds good dunnit? Pilgrim is fine Rapier should get a web effective bonus. Arazu could be given triple range to close range jammers
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2009.01.29 19:25:00 - [26] Originally by: kor anon Originally by: Ivorr Bigun Pilgrim is fine Rapier should get a web effective bonus. Arazu could be given triple range to close range jammers This TBH. The problems with falcons are twofold, so the easiest way around that is to just nerf them. however, if gallente recons could damp at the same ranges falcons can jam, they'd make for exellent anti-falcon work. The other problem however lies in how the falcon compares to other ECM ships. In most cases, the chain of power goes Battleship > tech II cruiser, and combat recon > force recon. With the caldari however this is completely backwards. They took the scorp (a ship which is already great in pvp) and made a cruiser variant, only the cruiser can do everything the battleship can, just as well, while still being able to turn like a cruiser. THEN they took this already overpowered ship (Take a good ship and make it better, you make it OP), and gave it a cloak! So now you've got the falcon, the result of 2 steps of senseless buffing. No one flies rooks because the falcon is so much better, and no one flies scorps because the rook is so much better. But as I said, give the arazu/lach a range bonus that lets them damp at the ranges falcons can jam at, and the problem should solve itself. It's one thing for people to complain about a falcon when only caldari recons can stand up to them, but if gal recons could as well, it would mean half the recons in the game could be used against them.
Linnth Amarr Darkill Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 19:33:00 - [27] Originally by: Ivorr Bigun so in that case remove all extra roles from the other Recons but give them the same advantages the Falcon has? 100km+ webber rapier 100km+ damper Arazu 100km+ neut Pilgrim sounds good dunnit? There we go. Getting my Pilgrim ready as we speak.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.01.29 20:00:00 - [28] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 29/01/2009 20:00:31 Originally by: Ivorr Bigun Would it be fair to say that the sabre is the ONLY dictor worth flying now? If it is better than the others what do they need, or what needs doing to the sabre to bring it into line? Fixed it for u.

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