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Siobhan
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
   |
Posted - 2009.02.01 00:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Siobhan on 01/02/2009 00:02:22
CVA & the Amarr Militia
Seven months ago the Curatores Veritatis Alliance made a statement in support of the newly established Amarrian Militia: http://www.eve-search.com/thread/795659/page/1
As part of that announcement our diplomat made the following statement:
We the CVA take great pride in our longstanding service to the Empire in bringing peace and safety to all Amarrians and true Neutral citizens who reside with Amarr Empire and Providence space. With that point clear, ANY member of the 24th Imperial Crusade who may choose to to go rogue and engages in the heretical act of piracy against their fellow citizens or against other true neutrals, will be hunted and destroyed with extreme prejudice. Piracy is a devious sin, made more vile if done whilst flying under the flag of Holy Mother Amarr.
We therefore very strongly encourage all pilots of the 24th Imperial Crusade to continue the longstanding efforts of your fellow Amarrian Loyalist Organizations, and maintain a strict adherence to NRDS Rules of Engagement while flying within the borders of the Amarr Empire and Amarrian Providence.
Again, let us speak plainly and clearly: Piracy in Amarr Space or in Providence will NOT be tolerated in ANY form. Not by the usual suspects, and not by members of the 24th Imperial Militia.
Unfortunately, despite significant diplomatic efforts, many members of the Amarr Militia have continued to commit crimes against Amarrian residents both in low-sec and Holy Amarrian Providence and as a result have ended up on the CVA and our allies KOS lists. This has in turn led to incidents which have worsened relations between the CVA and the Militia.
Various diplomatic efforts were made to avoid conflict between CVA and the Amarr militia, led by staunchly loyal Amarrian corporations such as PIE and Vigilia Valeria. These efforts included æno fly zonesÆ and even offers of compensation for innocent pilots killed in Amarr space by piratical elements of the Militia.
Unfortunately the chaotic nature of the Militia (no formal leadership, no standards of recruitment etc) and the fact that many anti-Amarrian and anti-CVA agitators and spies have infiltrated its ranks meant that all such agreements have proved worthless and unenforceable.
The CVA is no longer willing to work with the Amarr Militia as it is currently comprised. Vast amounts or diplomatic and leadership time have gone into developing good relationships but regrettably relations only seem to worsen. We are no longer prepared to tolerate the criminal elements within the Militia or waste diplomatic time negotiating with an organisation that lacks clear leadership.
While neither CVA, nor our allies, will be deliberately seeking out fights with criminals in the Amarr Militia (and of course the entirety of the Minmatar Militia remains KOS to us), neither will be prevented from doing business in and patrolling areas of low-sec Amarrian space - and if this leads to clashes with reds in the Militia then so be it.
We would remind law-abiding members of the Militia that should they seek to protect known pirates from justice û they too will be considered criminals.
The CVA remain committed to the extension of the Amarrian Empire and to maintaining security in low-sec Amarrian space and Amarrian Providence. We remain committed to enforcing Amarrian law and order in formerly lawless space and we remain committed to the betterment of the Empire.
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Siobhan
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.01 00:04:00 -
[2]
(Continued)
While we want the Amarr Militia to be successful on behalf of the Empire û we do not want this to be at the expense of honour. While the Minmatar may willingly recruit every random criminal to their cause in a vain attempt to ensure victory we believe the Amarr Militia should aim for a higher standard. Unfortunately we do not believe that the current makeup and structure of the Militia enables that to happen, despite the best efforts and influence of loyalist organisations such as PIE and VV, and as such we are withdrawing our support until such time as this is corrected.
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Derus Grobb
Selectus Pravus Lupus
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Posted - 2009.02.01 01:24:00 -
[3]
Best
CVA
Thread
Ever |
MirrorGod
Heretic Army
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 01:25:00 -
[4]
Edited by: MirrorGod on 01/02/2009 01:27:15
*A camera-drone follows MirrorGod off his interceptor class hull "TES Guardian". Walking with a black cigarette, he looks directly into the lens, trying in vain to conceal a cackle.*
...
*He raises a hand, as if to speak, and then shakes it off, face exploding with with smoke and laughter*
...
*He tries once more, eventually finishing in a long, drawn out laugh.*
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JIm Hammer
Minmatar
Heretic Army
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 01:25:00 -
[5]
Good call. Unfortunately I will still be shooting you. "Get off my Lawn"
YARRRR |
Sarsha Lyonsbane
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Posted - 2009.02.01 03:18:00 -
[6]
So... you are responding to some clashes in 0.0 by adding More confusion and giving an advantage to the worst enemies of the empire ?
By blocking Militia work you will make Minmatars stronger...
Great Move :-D The empress will be certainly happy with this !
Amarrians are really strange people... no wait... the CVA has no more Amarrians in it :-P His CEO is a Gallentean like me :-P |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 05:05:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Sarsha Lyonsbane
you are responding to some clashes in 0.0
Actually, this was largely precipitated by clashes in the Bleaklands themselves...though the few incidents in Providence that occured only complicated the issues occuring in low security space.
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Forty Three
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.01 05:58:00 -
[8]
I welcome this announcement with open arms. Finally CVA and U'K will be able to collaborate on something.. let us destroy the Amarr militia together!!
*Forty Three struggles to keep a straight face, then explodes in loud, deep laughter*
-----------------------------------------------
UNITY!!!
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T 2
Minmatar
Tribal Core
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Posted - 2009.02.01 08:08:00 -
[9]
I have to say that this move was something I have been waiting for. The Militias of all four factions are so infested with malicious pirating thieves that a proper communication and co-operation is very hard.
I tip my hat to CVA for trying so long to negotiate with the Amarr militia - even though the result was foreseen.
However it makes one sad to see one worthy advisory leave the field of battle and that is saying much - you are Amarr.. I sure hope to see you in space even you are leaving the warzone - my rifter's auto-cannons are waiting.. 
Best Regards,
T 2, Tribal Core
-----------
Member of Tribal Core - fighting for Minmatar Militia.
Death to Amarr; long live the Minmatar Nation.
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Nur AlHuda
Amarr
Callide Vulpis
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Posted - 2009.02.01 10:01:00 -
[10]
As Amarr Militia is under imperial jurisdiction all corporations signed up or individuals violating the imperial code of conduct aka commiting open piracy should be branded as traitors to the empire and killed on sight.
Amarrian empire had given the opportunity to allow peregrines joining the militia work for the goals of the empire but this should be not used for personal gains. |
O Thief
The Littlest Hobos
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 11:11:00 -
[11]
I, too, have the Amarr Militia on my KOS list.
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.02.01 11:31:00 -
[12]
Ammatar Free Corps Response
We of the Free Corps recognise the achievements of our Amarrian allies. We do not forget that the Curatores Veritatis Alliance has established a flourishing Amarrian Providence, and indeed its logistical support to the 24th Imperial Crusade. The loyal pilots of 24th Imperial Crusade in turn have succeeded in reversing the situation on the frontlines against the tribals.
It is without doubt that the Empire benefits from both of these forces achieving their goals. That the 24th Imperial Crusade is now working independent of the established pioneers of providence is something we believe should not tarnish either of their efforts.
May their successes continue. |
William Ytiri
YTiRi Retail
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 12:36:00 -
[13]
Next to good fruits, a good tree can also give rotten fruits. It does not make the tree rotten also. However, I see your concerns. Possibilities for organisation within the Militia's is indeed limited, but it is up to Concord to change that.
It is possible to put a corporation within the Faction Militia's that is completely up to any standard. I think that is the way to go for the development of any Faction Militia. A core of dependable, trustworthy Faction Corporations working together with support of outsider alliances/corporations and the rest of the Militia can be used as cannonfodder or just be ignored until they prove their worthiness or usefullness.
Nevertheless, good luck in your further endeavours, as your previous achievements are still an inspiration to a lot of capsuleers.
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.01 17:27:00 -
[14]
The message from the CVA remains consistent, at least, 'do what we say, behave as we expect you to behave, shoot only those we permit you to shoot or suffer our wrath'.
Quote:
Unfortunately the chaotic nature of the Militia (no formal leadership, no standards of recruitment etc) and the fact that many anti-Amarrian and anti-CVA agitators and spies have infiltrated its ranks meant that all such agreements have proved worthless and unenforceable.
We know that in the CVA's mind 'anti-Amarrian' and 'anti-CVA' are essentially synonymous, such is their arrogance and hubris. A translation of 'anti-CVA agitators' for general consumption would read 'people who refuse to obey the CVA's every whim and carry out their own business, in their own way, without reference to the CVA or its arbitrarily-imposed rules'.
It's no great surprise to me that the CVA, perceiving a rival power formation in Amarrian politics that it cannot control or suborn, decides to take a high-handed and hostile attitude. This is what the CVA has done with every Amarrian organisation that has refused to lick its suppurating rectum.
In short, no news here.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 18:42:00 -
[15]
Again another small step to take CVA further and further away from Amarrian extremism. Very good news indeed.
Still, naturally, no reason to consider neutralizing our standings yet, but one can see some glimmers of hope that in some foreseeable future CVA will have the guts to completely pull themselves away from under the influence of the Empire.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Diplomat
Electus Matari
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today. |
Alistair Cononach
Amarr
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 19:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
In short, no news here.
The Cosmopolite
Indeed Cosmopolite. You've come forth with the utterly predictable long-winded blowhardism we've all come to expect from the Stir Fiction anarchists. Those who can, do. Those who cannot write endless manifestos about their own self-importance. Clearly, most objective observers know where Stir Fiction, who ran screaming in failure every time they've come to Providence, stand in that regard. What next, plan on claiming we "never undock"? Please.
The fact is, we in the CVA have longstanding standards and priciples to uphold. Defending Providence and Imperial low-sec space against piracy and the wanton slaughter of neutrals is one of those principles. The simple act of becomming a mercenary or privateer for the milita does not change who and what we fight against, and must defend against. Actions and deeds speak far louder than mere milita membership ever could.
We made all of this very explicitly clear when the militia was formed, and we make it clear again here and now.
There is very little CVA can do about the fact that the Empire has chosen to not limit who it accepts to fight it's proxy war. There is no question that next to the long-time loyalists of unquestionable integrity and standing such as my former brothers of PIE, there are also a wide variety of mercenary pirate s**** under the militia banner, looking for nothing more than a quick isk, a convenient shield from its enemies, or the simple enjoyment of shooting people with someone more importants blessing.
Hell, even the Stir Fiction could fight for Amarr if they chose, with no limitation or questioning by Imperial Recruiters. Such is the way of things today. We cannot control that.
But what CVA CAN control is our own adherance to our principles and beliefs. And let me make this very very clear, we in the CVA WILL ALWAYS stand for our core principles and beliefs, regardless of any criticism or sniping we may face in these public comm channels.
We in the CVA, our Providence allies, and the vast number of neutrals who live in our space, have chosen the path we are on. The rightious path. God's path. End of story.
Good day Mr. Cosmopolite. Perhaps one day we will see you in space again.
|
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.01 20:58:00 -
[17]
I think the tone and the length of the remarks issued by the paramilitary Cononach speaks volumes.
So I will merely smile, reflect on the numerous victories we have had over the allegedly invincible Amarrian fleets whenever we have conducted operations in Providence and just let your fevered denunciations stand without comment.
You will indeed, sooner or later, see me and my comrades in space again and again and again.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Ammatar Free Corps
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 21:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
So I will merely smile, reflect on the numerous victories we have had over the allegedly invincible Amarrian fleets whenever we have conducted operations in Providence and just let your fevered denunciations stand without comment.
Yes, the crushing effect of these "victories" must be why CVA stations aren't popping up like mushrooms all over Providence.
...Wait, CVA stations are popping up like mushrooms all over Providence.
Also, your involvement against the Amarr militia must be why they haven't taken back every system they lost in the first few weeks of the campaign and aren't making advances into territory that has belonged to the Minmatar Republic for centuries.
...Wait, they have taken back every system they lost and they are making advances into the Minmatar Republic.
______________________________________________
-My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 22:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
...suffer our wrath
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
decides to take a high-handed and hostile attitude.
You misunderstand the situation entirely and massively overstate CVA's approach. Cooperation with the 24th Imperial Crusade has proved impossible given the amount of CVA-hostile (and in most cases out-right piratical) elements of the 24th Crusade, so CVA cooperation will no longer be attempted. We will carry out our business in the Bleaklands with no ill-will to the 24th Crusade but we will engage CVA-hostile elements within the 24th Crusade as necessary.
The only difference now is simply if otherwise neutral elements within the 24th Imperial Crusade fire upon CVA vessels at the behest of/in support of CVA-hostile elements within the 24th Imperial Crusade, we will no longer seek a peaceful solution to the issue. We will handle our business in each tactical situation in a way that is tactically sufficient instead of diplomatically sufficient. Diplomacy has not worked through months of effort.
It is curious to see a Fractionite condemn this approach: when neutrals in Providence engaged Fractionite vessels engaged in combat with the CVA, Fractionite forces handled the situation in precisely the same way. Was this also because Star Fraction was put out that the Providence locals "refused to lick its suppurating rectum?" |
Saul Dhampir
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 00:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Alistair Cononach
Blar blar blar
What was that you said about long-winded blowhardism? |
Deckhard Aura
Amarr
Sarum A Fortiori
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 00:51:00 -
[21]
Sarum A Fortiori has dropped from the Militia due to similar problems with leadership and organization. It is difficult to work with groups you know you cannot fully trust.
I find our recent progress more a lack of the Minmatar Militia willing to fight than anything, I see no possible change in the outcome of this war.
Amarr Victor. |
Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Slacker Industries
The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 04:45:00 -
[22]
I'll notify Righteous Fury of this.
He could do with a good laugh today.
|
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 04:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Garreck
You misunderstand the situation entirely and massively overstate CVA's approach. Cooperation with the 24th Imperial Crusade has proved impossible given the amount of CVA-hostile (and in most cases out-right piratical) elements of the 24th Crusade, so CVA cooperation will no longer be attempted. We will carry out our business in the Bleaklands with no ill-will to the 24th Crusade but we will engage CVA-hostile elements within the 24th Crusade as necessary.
The only difference now is simply if otherwise neutral elements within the 24th Imperial Crusade fire upon CVA vessels at the behest of/in support of CVA-hostile elements within the 24th Imperial Crusade, we will no longer seek a peaceful solution to the issue. We will handle our business in each tactical situation in a way that is tactically sufficient instead of diplomatically sufficient. Diplomacy has not worked through months of effort.
It is curious to see a Fractionite condemn this approach: when neutrals in Providence engaged Fractionite vessels engaged in combat with the CVA, Fractionite forces handled the situation in precisely the same way. Was this also because Star Fraction was put out that the Providence locals "refused to lick its suppurating rectum?"
A nice attempt, Garreck, but it falls short because the CVA do not hold to the standards that the Star Fraction use in determining who is and isn't hostile. Rather, the CVA uses a varied mix of ingredients û actual hostile action against the CVA, hostile action against allies, alleged piracy, hearsay, lies told it by lickspittles, lies told its command by pilots with a grudge or desire to ease out economic rivals, base greed on its own part and various other low motives û thrown haphazardly into its diplomatic cookpot by a gang of evil old men, once all Amarrian warlords, now presided over by a corrupted Gallente wolfshead, and used to excuse its arbitrary hostile action against anyone it thinks is a threat to its hegemony in Providence.
We know that this has historically included those who consider themselves loyal to the Amarr Empire. We know that such have either bended the knee to the CVA to gain 'rights' to use of territory, moons, mineral belts, etc. in the CVA's empire or they have been forcibly ejected while always being accused of being 'pirates', which latter term is the CVA's preferred cover-all label for people it wants to slander as a prelude to removing them as a thorn in its flesh.
You say that the Star Fraction dealt with neutrals who aggressed us at the CVA's behest by the use of deadly force. Yes, true enough. But only those we actually saw take hostile action against us with our own eyes. We didn't shoot neutrals who allegedly 'pirated' some tinpot client alliance of ours. We didn't shoot neutrals who allegedly used Providence as a 'base for piracy'. We didn't interfere in disputes between neutrals and friends by castigating the neutrals as 'pirates' and proceeding to wage war both physical and propagandist against them. We didn't, most importantly, attack or threaten to attack anyone for their choice of rules of engagement. You are the gang that does that, not us. And you are the gang who here above give notice that this is what you're going to do again.
Except this time you are going to attack people who fly under the banner of the Amarr Empire itself. It is clear enough that the CVA don't like the fact that there is now a large concentration of Amarrian loyalist capsuleers who carry out their business on behalf of the Empire without asking themselves if the CVA would approve.
I don't condemn for a second the CVA responding as anyone would to direct hostile action. I simply think that more than that is being said here. I think this can be fairly read as a clear attempt to threaten and bully the Amarr militia into doing what the CVA wants. I simply say this is of a piece with the CVA approach to 'diplomacy'.
The Cosmopolite
|
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 05:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
We didn't shoot neutrals who allegedly 'pirated' some tinpot client alliance of ours.
It's a shame you would view any allies of Star Fraction in such a light, Cosmopolite. "Tinpot client?" Eesh.
I'm proud to say that we hold our allies in very high regard, we honor their word and we honor our commitments to them. Such is the "beast" that is Amarrian Providence. |
Hardin
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
Ordo Magna
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 06:36:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Hardin on 02/02/2009 06:41:52
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
I don't condemn for a second the CVA responding as anyone would to direct hostile action. I simply think that more than that is being said here. I think this can be fairly read as a clear attempt to threaten and bully the Amarr militia into doing what the CVA wants.
As a known enemy of Amarr I really don't see why any statement of yours on this issue has any credibility here, other than being a transparent attempt to sow discord.
However, just to clarify we are not threatening nor bullying the Militia. We have simply stated our new policy. If the Militia wants to alter its behaviour because of that then that is up to them. We have stated our position clearly and publicly and the Militia now knows where we stand.
We want the Militia to be successful, but while its ranks are filled with anti-Amarrian agitators (many of them no doubt planted by yourself and other enemies of the Empire) we have no option but to stand by our principles when it comes to piracy in Amarrian space.
Contrary to the image that you and your anti-Amarrian band want to perpetuate the CVA KOS list is not some random arbitrary listing that we have made up on the spur of the moment. It is a list based primarily of those who pirate in low-sec Amarrian space or Amarrian Providence. It is constantly revised and updated by our, and our allies', diplomats. Individuals and organisations come off and on all the time. All of this is logged and solid reasons given and our records date back for many years. Occasionally mistakes are made but in those instances CVA (or our allies) will usually pay compensation.
Unfortunately, the pirates who lurk in the Amarr Militia do not pay compensation. Nor do many show any atonement for their sins against commerce and trade in Amarrian space. While bureaucrats in the Militia administration (presumably former CONCORD staff) are willing to turn a blind eye to these crimes the CVA will not.
We are not asking the Militia to adopt CVA's KOS list. Its law-abiding members simply have to respect that we cannot turn a blind eye to criminal pilots lurking in their ranks and therefore not interfere when justice is applied.
I would also remind you that the CVA KOS list is public. If members of the Militia (both corps and individuals) are concerned that they have been set red for illegitimate reasons, or they now regret their former criminal actions (or their membership of piratical/terroristic organisations), and wish to clear the record then they can contact CVA diplomats in order to do so.
If the 'reds' in the Militia are truly dedicated to the Amarrian cause then this is something they shouldn't actually have to be prompted to do! The fact that some in the Amarrian Militia actually seem to revel in their criminal acts in Amarrian space indicates that they have no real loyalty to the Empire other than a mercenary one!
-----
Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services
Advert |
Kazzzi
Amarr
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 11:32:00 -
[26]
Political strife, that's what I like to see.
And you Imperialists say the tribes are too disorganized to work together.
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Greme
Amarr
Slacker Industries
The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 11:54:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Greme on 02/02/2009 11:56:51
Oh this is just classic. CVA working "in the interests of the Amarr empire" again I see.
Nothing changes
|
Jon Rocks
Amarr
Rothana Heavy Industries
The Black Isle
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 12:03:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Jon Rocks on 02/02/2009 12:05:59
Its easy to see for most why CVA had to make a stand.. But the slave spin machine is in full twirl..
Nothing Changes..
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Greme
Amarr
Slacker Industries
The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 13:42:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jon Rocks
Edited by: Jon Rocks on 02/02/2009 12:05:59
Its easy to see for most why CVA had to make a stand.. But the slave spin machine is in full twirl..
Nothing Changes..
Sir, if you are referring to myself as a slave (as I can only assume from your rather weak attempt at a satirical copy of my post). Perhaps you should bother to do some research into both my ancestral bloodline, and indeed which militia I was aiding in the past (hint: the answer to both is Amarr).
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 14:37:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Greme
... Perhaps you should bother to do some research into both my ancestral bloodline, and indeed which militia I was aiding in the past (hint: the answer to both is Amarr).
Ah but you're not CVAmarr thats the difference 
________________________
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Ethidium Bromide
Amarr
PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 15:29:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
Originally by: Greme
... Perhaps you should bother to do some research into both my ancestral bloodline, and indeed which militia I was aiding in the past (hint: the answer to both is Amarr).
Ah but you're not CVAmarr thats the difference
astounding how one of your shortest posts ever is pretty much the most useful ever 
|
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 16:07:00 -
[32]
Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 02/02/2009 16:10:40
Garreck, I truly regard you as a tragic case. A manifestly decent, thoughtful and courteous man who has swallowed whole the evil lies that the Amarrian church has sown among my people for millennia. I note the rather weak attempt at turning my irony back against me but your heart is clearly not in it. But wait! I see why, your master has emerged from the depths of yet another of his clap-board alliances to spray forth his bluster. Perhaps anticipating the embarrassment rendered you so halting. I sympathise.
I must say, I always find statements by Hardin to be delightful in terms of the insight they give into the mindset of the CVA. One is left with the impression of a befuddled giant sea-beast which does not consider that the ending of the ocean in a rather inhospitable shoreline is anything that should concern it. Rather, to the contrary, this hubristic leviathan believes the beach should give way to it, with sadly predictable results. Amazing to behold and always comical.
First, I'd like to highlight the usual example of the CVA bemoaning the fact that the Amarr Empire does not carry out its business as the CVA believes it should:
Originally by: Hardin
Unfortunately, the pirates who lurk in the Amarr Militia do not pay compensation. Nor do many show any atonement for their sins against commerce and trade in Amarrian space. While bureaucrats in the Militia administration (presumably former CONCORD staff) are willing to turn a blind eye to these crimes the CVA will not.
I am amused that the CVA believes that the command staff of the 24th Imperial Crusade are closet supporters of piracy and perhaps even agents of the diabolical CONCORD. I fear Hardin simply doesn't understand that the Amarr Empire has different priorities to the CVA and it really doesn't care if members of its militia are in conflict with a gang of cut-throats who no longer even pretend to behave like a traditional Amarrian organisation, let alone a loyal one. The casual insults flung at the Amarr Empress by CVA members on a fairly regular basis rather speaks for itself.
Cutting away the rest of the bluster, the meat of the CVA viewpoint can be found in the following paragraphs:
Originally by: Hardin
I would also remind you that the CVA KOS list is public. If members of the Militia (both corps and individuals) are concerned that they have been set red for illegitimate reasons, or they now regret their former criminal actions (or their membership of piratical/terroristic organisations), and wish to clear the record then they can contact CVA diplomats in order to do so.
If the 'reds' in the Militia are truly dedicated to the Amarrian cause then this is something they shouldn't actually have to be prompted to do! The fact that some in the Amarrian Militia actually seem to revel in their criminal acts in Amarrian space indicates that they have no real loyalty to the Empire other than a mercenary one!
Note the arrogance. The pilots of the Amarr militia don't show they are 'truly dedicated to the Amarrian cause' by flying in combat operations against the Minmatar militia and its allies. No, the way to show they are 'truly dedicated' is to check in with the CVA and beg that any past transgressions against the renegades of Providence be forgiven. It is quite simply breathtaking.
We might pass over in weariness the usual inherent assumption that any act of hostility to the CVA or its gang of vassals is de facto 'criminal'. Let us just note that if you are in legitimate conflict with the CVA or any of its lickspittles, conflict that is not in necessary contradiction with loyalty to the Amarr Empire, then you will be painted with the same old labels of 'pirate', 'traitor', 'terrorist', etc. etc.
The sore point is, again, clear. The CVA don't like the fact that they are no longer the authority as to who is and is not a loyal Amarrian capsuleer. The Empire now takes that role fully upon itself and how the CVA rail against this.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Elise Randolph
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 17:43:00 -
[33]
This is absolutely shocking! I had no idea CVA claimed to support the Amarr Militia this entire time. They've been randomly shooting at the Amarr Militia since it was created. The good news for the Militiamen is that this verbose CVA pseudo-threat is absolutely meaningless as they haven't been supporting the Militia at all anyways.
I suppose CVA just feel like they needed attention now that they don't have slaves to boss around.
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Grr
Amarr
Epitoth Fleetyards
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 19:38:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Elise Randolph
This is absolutely shocking! I had no idea CVA claimed to support the Amarr Militia this entire time. They've been randomly shooting at the Amarr Militia since it was created. The good news for the Militiamen is that this verbose CVA pseudo-threat is absolutely meaningless as they haven't been supporting the Militia at all anyways.
I suppose CVA just feel like they needed attention now that they don't have slaves to boss around.
Some elements of CVA have done more for the miltia than you ever did. Slacker Industries did nothing but disrupt militia operations and try to put a wedge in between CVA and its loyalist allies.
We have shot Amarr militia members since it was created that is correct. Amarr militia members who were pirates such as yourselves, members who tried to use the Amarr militia as a shield to cover their own agenda.
And what slaves exactly are you referring to? You are aware only a small amount out of the billions of slaves were recently given freedom right or is this another example of how clueless Slacker Industries are?
|
Madmartigan
Gallente
Slacker Industries
The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 20:09:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Grr
e]
Slacker Industries did nothing but disrupt militia operations and try to put a wedge in between CVA and its loyalist allies.
Might I remind you that Amarr Militia was a totally headless army before we came into the ranks of Amarr Militia. We raised Amarr Militia to previously unknown hights, from the lowest ranking militia to the highest ranking militia. Amarr Militia did far more under our control for the good of the Amar Empire, then you have done in your entire history.
Hell......Amarr Empire doesn¦t even have any ambitions towards Providence, that¦s solely your own ego trip.
Originally by: Grr
We have shot Amarr militia members since it was created that is correct.
Hmmmm...........by all standards except CVA standards, you have violated the will of the empire with this action. The Amarr EMpire has deemed that all pilots who are willing to fight on behalf of the Empire within it¦s factional warfare against the "stinkies" are worthy of doing so.
So please tell me, WHO THE F#"#K AE YOU TO TELL PEOPLE OTHERWISE ?
Unless of course you aren¦t a loyal follower of the Amarr Empire.
|
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 20:32:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Madmartigan
Hmmmm...........by all standards except CVA standards, you have violated the will of the empire with this action.
By what standards, exactly? Yours? The standards of enemies of the CVA?
I'm frankly more interested in the standards of the Imperial Navy, the Heirs, or the Empress Herself, and I don't believe they've weighed in on the issue at all.
For all the bluster about CVA interference, the Crusade marches on with measurable success. It is obvious that our antipiracy stance has not negatively impacted the Crusade to any great degree, and that the grievances of those who have fallen under our guns are personal issues masked by concerns for the success of the Crusade. |
Jodie Amille
Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 20:53:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Grr
Slacker Industries did nothing but disrupt militia operations and try to put a wedge in between CVA and its loyalist allies.
We have shot Amarr militia members since it was created that is correct. Amarr militia members who were pirates such as yourselves, members who tried to use the Amarr militia as a shield to cover their own agenda.
No offense Grr, but how is taking a leading role and providing fc experience, leadership and combat expertise disrupting militia operations?
How can you say that with a straight face while CVA's allies come to militia territory and gank ships right out from under our fleets as we prepare to engage the Minmatar?
Which is more disrupting?
If CVA wants to come into militia operational space and shoot their own reds with blatant disregard for how this affects militia operations then that is their prerogative.
The Militia was sanctioned by the Empire and you attacking it's forces put you in direct conflict with it's operations, regardless of your intentions. This is not up for debate. It is fact. Militia gangs will continue to defend their members from you and your allies' attack so I guess soon enough most corps within the militia will be set red to Providence holder alliances. Spin it all you want with whatever supposed high morals and high ground supremacist attitude you like but in the end you will be working fully AGAINST the efforts of the Empire to retake the lowsec area from the minmatar every time time you come to our area of operations. Amarr loyal alliances indeed.
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Jodie Amille
Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 20:57:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Madmartigan
Hmmmm...........by all standards except CVA standards, you have violated the will of the empire with this action.
By what standards, exactly? Yours? The standards of enemies of the CVA?
I'm frankly more interested in the standards of the Imperial Navy, the Heirs, or the Empress Herself, and I don't believe they've weighed in on the issue at all.
Tell me, who again sanctioned the militia? Who allowed ANY corp to join the militia?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 21:22:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Garreck on 02/02/2009 21:23:54
Originally by: Jodie Amille
Tell me, who again sanctioned the militia? Who allowed ANY corp to join the militia?
The militias were chartered by CONCORD in accordance with the Emergency Militia War Powers Act. It was a panic move by four session members in the wake of the destruction of CONCORD's headquarters in Yulai.
If I had to guess, conflict between elements in the 24th Imperial Crusade and the CVA are only the early beginnings of further trouble cluster-wide from what was obviously a short-term solution with no long-term vision. The allowance for pilots and organizations with a known history of piracy is no doubt only one of many oversights in the charter. |
Jodie Amille
Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 21:34:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Garreck
Edited by: Garreck on 02/02/2009 21:32:21
Originally by: Jodie Amille
Tell me, who again sanctioned the militia? Who allowed ANY corp to join the militia?
The militias were chartered by CONCORD in accordance with the Emergency Militia War Powers Act. It was a panic move by four session members in the wake of the destruction of CONCORD's headquarters in Yulai.
If I had to guess, conflict between elements in the 24th Imperial Crusade and the CVA are only the early beginnings of further trouble cluster-wide from what was obviously a short-term solution with no long-term vision. The allowance for pilots and organizations with a known history of piracy is no doubt only one of many oversights in the charter.
It should be noted that, in the pursuit of God's Good Work, CVA has a history of defying CONCORD on other issues as well.
Chartered by concord, yes. And submitted to concord for sanction by each of the 4 empires leadership. And you accuse SF of twisting words.
--------
|
Greme
Amarr
Slacker Industries
The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 21:38:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Garreck
It should be noted that, in the pursuit of God's Good Work, CVA has a history of defying CONCORD on other issues as well.
It should also be noted that the generalised words for those who defy concord tend to revolve around "pirate" and "criminal". Is this the final admission that CVA are in fact the greatest hypocrites? Conducting criminal and pirate activity whilst condemning it verbally.
|
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 21:41:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jodie Amille
Chartered by concord, yes. And submitted to concord for sanction by each of the 4 empires leadership. And you accuse SF of twisting words.
Then allow me to be more direct:
Most zealous Amarrian eggers have gone on record to some extent or another villifying CONCORD. That the Amarrian session member (I must admit to some ignorance as to who that member even is or was, it certainly was not the Empress) saw fit to ask CONCORD for permission to carry out a campaign against the enemies of the Empire brings into question, in my mind, the validity of the charter from the word "go."
|
Elise Randolph
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 21:43:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Grr
Some elements of CVA have done more for the miltia than you ever did. Slacker Industries did nothing but disrupt militia operations and try to put a wedge in between CVA and its loyalist allies.
We've been through this, the only claim to fame that CVA has with respect to the Militia is that they allowed neutral militia pilots to enter into Providence. However, it's not really a benefit when same neutral pilots could have gone into Providence anyways. Besides Garreck, I haven't seen any CVA pilots assisting militia fleets. I've seen a bunch of them withholding help and aiding the Minmatar Militia by pirating Amarrian Militiamen.
Originally by: Grr
We have shot Amarr militia members since it was created that is correct. Amarr militia members who were pirates such as yourselves, members who tried to use the Amarr militia as a shield to cover their own agenda.
I don't see how you can argue that helping the Militia by organizing them into a cohesive group and in turn killing the opposing militia was furthering our "pirate agenda". Really, it makes no sense whatsoever. I suppose that's just some vain attempt at propaganda.
Originally by: Grr
And what slaves exactly are you referring to? You are aware only a small amount out of the billions of slaves were recently given freedom right or is this another example of how clueless Slacker Industries are?
I was referring to the small amount of of billions that you likely still had until your Empress told you to free them. Regardless, not really a big deal as it doesn't really relate to the matter at hand; I was just trying to justify your actions for you. Forgive me if I'm an altruist at heart.
But why listen to me, listen to MirrorGod, while we were around the main Minmatar Militia FC, and Jodie, who is statistically one of the best Amarrian Militia pilots and Fleet Commanders. They both are saying that CVA have constantly pursued their own goals with no respect for the militia. I'm fine with that, we've been over this many times: CVA have no duty to the Militia.
What I'm not fine with, and where I do take offense, is when CVA suggests that they have been helpful to the Militia. So last week the CVA did nothing to assist the militia and shot at them when they saw fit. After this large declaration, CVA has announced they will do nothing to assist the militia and will shoot when they see fit. What changed? Either nothing changed and you lot just want attention, or you're trying to imply that previously your actions were valiant and your endless tolerance was pushed too far by the vile militiamen. Pathetic attention-seeking, propaganda-spewing behavior either way if you ask me.
----------
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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 21:49:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Greme
It should also be noted that the generalised words for those who defy concord tend to revolve around "pirate" and "criminal". Is this the final admission that CVA are in fact the greatest hypocrites?
I've never known the rejection of a standard to be called hypocrisy. Arrogant and self-righteous, yes...but that goes with the territory of carrying out God's Will.
We are not accountable to CONCORD, we are accountable to God.
|
Jodie Amille
Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 22:05:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Jodie Amille
Chartered by concord, yes. And submitted to concord for sanction by each of the 4 empires leadership. And you accuse SF of twisting words.
Then allow me to be more direct:
Most zealous Amarrian eggers have gone on record to some extent or another villifying CONCORD. That the Amarrian session member (I must admit to some ignorance as to who that member even is or was, it certainly was not the Empress) saw fit to ask CONCORD for permission to carry out a campaign against the enemies of the Empire brings into question, in my mind, the validity of the charter from the word "go."
Quite frankly, neither yours nor CVA's opinions matter. The militia is a sanctioned Amarrian force(unlike CVA btw) and you are going directly against the Empire's will by attacking it's members. Just because you don't agree with this doesn't make it any less true
--------
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Karn Mithralia
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 22:10:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 02/02/2009 22:13:41
Amazing ... I find myself agreeing to a degree with Garreck.
As I have repeatedly and publicly said, the only people that the Militia system serves is those that created it - CONCORD and the hegemony on power they preserve.
I differ in my opinion from Garreck in that I don't believe it was hastily done or short sighted, but in fact was planned for a long time in advance and implemented when the opportunity arose.
CapsuleerÆs threaten the traditional power structures like nothing ever before. CONCORD fear that. The Militia system functions both as a vent and a distraction for capsuleerÆs. It provides an outlet for aggressive pod pilot action, while ensuring that aggression is expended in an entirely futile way.
The idea of a sanctioned (yet contained) turf-war is farcical to say the least, the fact CONCORD's militia structure ensures chaos make it not only farcical but ludicrous.
I'm glad to see that slowly more pilots are coming to see that, even if they are my enemies.
To those who resist tyranny and oppression in all its guises, never forget there is one institution who keeps slavery alive, beyond the obvious tyranny of the Amarrian way - that of CONCORD.
Or have we all forgotten the day that Keitan Yun was thrown from the CONCORD assembly for pointing out the obvious?
|
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 22:11:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Jodie Amille
Just because you don't agree with this doesn't make it any less true
Nor does you stating louder and louder make it true.
But we're entering the realm of fairly pointless footstomping over the issue. If 24th Imperial Crusade members wish to condemn the CVA for pursuing antipiracy actions against members within the militia, that is their issue. If they wish to continue to rely on known pirates to carry out their mission, that is their problem. If they wish to scream to the public when CVA polices the Militia to keep God's work pure, that is their business.
CVA will carry on pursuing the Will of God. The rest is rhetoric.
|
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 22:14:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
I differ in my opinion from Garreck in that I don't believe it was hastily done or short sighted, but in fact was planned for a long time in advance and implemented when the opportunity arose.
What you suggest is staggering.
And disturbingly feasible.
|
Jodie Amille
Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 22:16:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Jodie Amille
Just because you don't agree with this doesn't make it any less true
Nor does you stating louder and louder make it true.
But we're entering the realm of fairly pointless footstomping over the issue. If 24th Imperial Crusade members wish to condemn the CVA for pursuing antipiracy actions against members within the militia, that is their issue. If they wish to continue to rely on known pirates to carry out their mission, that is their problem. If they wish to scream to the public when CVA polices the Militia to keep God's work pure, that is their business.
CVA will carry on pursuing the Will of God. The rest is rhetoric.
Oh the irony. rhetoric indeed. And thus we see the value of trying to talk sense with blind fanatics.
--------
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Nur AlHuda
Amarr
Callide Vulpis
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 22:34:00 -
[50]
I think we heard CVA opinion on this matter and we know their solution. But the other side which is against CVA didnt bringed any solution.
I mean we have here some very important questions...
1. How to prevent that Militia dont moves around allaince controlled territories and just dont shoots around to provoke troubles?
2. How to get militia focused on battle objectives?
From previous discussion most arguments were against CVA approach but in same time didnt provide any answer to problems that are before us. |
Righteous Fury
Slacker Industries
The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 22:49:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Righteous Fury on 02/02/2009 22:52:30
Originally by: Grr
Some elements of CVA have done more for the miltia than you ever did. Slacker Industries did nothing but disrupt militia operations and try to put a wedge in between CVA and its loyalist allies.
I'm sorry, who wrote some of the fleet command guides you're still using? Oh, look, someone from Slacker Industries. Your hypocrisy is pretty hilarious, do I need to take screen captures of your delightful little leadership corner discussion board as proof of your weakness? Fairly certain there are still quite a few posts from you as an individual, thanking us for helping so much. Your silliness is simply too overdone to be believable, here on public forums.
Unless of course, you're suffering from multiple personality disorder. Should this be the case, I've got the contact information for a nice Gallente doctor you might want to check out.
Oh, I'm sorry, I forget that its all the cute little CVA logistics corporations that like to think they do all the contributions. Seems so strange that they never have any proof of any of their usefulness, and even infact, how most people have no idea they've done anything at all?
Food for thought. Don't strain yourself with too much thought though, everyone knows how the spittle from your mouth-frothing just gets everywhere. |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 23:32:00 -
[52]
Carebears Very Angry |
MirrorGod
Heretic Army
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 23:37:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 02/02/2009 22:13:41
Amazing ... I find myself agreeing to a degree with Garreck.
As I have repeatedly and publicly said, the only people that the Militia system serves is those that created it - CONCORD and the hegemony on power they preserve.
I differ in my opinion from Garreck in that I don't believe it was hastily done or short sighted, but in fact was planned for a long time in advance and implemented when the opportunity arose.
CapsuleerÆs threaten the traditional power structures like nothing ever before. CONCORD fear that. The Militia system functions both as a vent and a distraction for capsuleerÆs. It provides an outlet for aggressive pod pilot action, while ensuring that aggression is expended in an entirely futile way.
The idea of a sanctioned (yet contained) turf-war is farcical to say the least, the fact CONCORD's militia structure ensures chaos make it not only farcical but ludicrous.
I'm glad to see that slowly more pilots are coming to see that, even if they are my enemies.
To those who resist tyranny and oppression in all its guises, never forget there is one institution who keeps slavery alive, beyond the obvious tyranny of the Amarrian way - that of CONCORD.
Or have we all forgotten the day that Keitan Yun was thrown from the CONCORD assembly for pointing out the obvious?
I couldn't agree more...but personally, I'm enjoying all this sensless violence, CONCORD be damned. |
Saint Hauler
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 23:42:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Saint Hauler on 02/02/2009 23:43:57
Interesting announcement - so basically, CVA finally admit they're a self-serving, and in any other way unaffiliated criminal organisation conducting operations against the empires interests by regularily committing acts of piracy against Amarr loyalists from out of lawless space...
Well - basically what everyone knew for ages - the guiding hand social club (or some entity designed for the purpose of revenge designed after its blueprint) has taken power of the CVA ages ago - and to add insult to injury, they installed a gaylente leader and then KOS'd the only true selfless Amarr loyalists one by one...
Nice job infiltrating  |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 23:49:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Saint Hauler
Edited by: Saint Hauler on 02/02/2009 23:43:57
Interesting announcement - so basically, CVA finally admit they're a self-serving, and in any other way unaffiliated criminal organisation conducting operations against the empires interests by regularily committing acts of piracy against Amarr loyalists from out of lawless space...
Well - basically what everyone knew for ages - the guiding hand social club (or some entity designed for the purpose of revenge designed after its blueprint) has taken power of the CVA ages ago - and to add insult to injury, they installed a gaylente leader and then KOS'd the only true selfless Amarr loyalists one by one...
Nice job infiltrating
At least humor is still alive and well in these perilous times. |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 23:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar
Carebears Very Angry
Bad name, i change my mind
This one's better:
Cureboars Verytarts All-in-arce |
Jonny Damordred
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 00:45:00 -
[57]
*munches popcorn between laughs*
|
Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Slacker Industries
The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 04:58:00 -
[58]
While I wasn't involved (heaven forbid should Rubyor will it) in Slackers participation of the Crusade, the corporation did as much as they could to turn the tide against the Republic support including Commanding fleets and information guides (as my esteemed CEO pointed out).
All I see CVA doing is shooting Crusade entities who happen to be red to CVA and disrupting Crusade activities.
The only solution I can see to this is that CVA leave the field of battle and go hide back in Providence.
CVA: You're neither helping the Crusade or aiding the Empire. While the Crusade gains crucial systems deep in Republic territory, you're attempting to destroy loyal members of its contingent.
Leave now, go see to your flock in Providence and leave the real fighting to the noble heroes of the Empire left doing the dirty work.
And lastly, what a pathetic bunch of slavers your are.
|
Heromann
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 05:53:00 -
[59]
I would like to whole heartily endorse this endeavor. More alliances, that have no REAL banner under Concord law are pretty much a sham unless they are truly giving a total effort to the war.
UK, UM, CVA are all total rejects acting like they care.
Heretics and Star Fraction are great examples of going in head first and not worrying about selfish alliance interests over the good of their respective empires.
|
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Solaris Operations
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 06:55:00 -
[60]
Quote:
Bad name, i change my mind This one's better: Cureboars Verytarts All-in-arce
*screen flickers to life*
You, troll, leave now. We don't need your kind.
Originally by: Heromann
I would like to whole heartily endorse this endeavor. More alliances, that have no REAL banner under Concord law are pretty much a sham unless they are truly giving a total effort to the war.
UK, UM, CVA are all total rejects acting like they care.
Heretics and Star Fraction are great examples of going in head first and not worrying about selfish alliance interests over the good of their respective empires.
I laugh at you saying that Heretics and Star Faction aren't working for their own "selfish interests". They want to claim victory on the field of battle. Not for Gallente or Minmatar, but for themselves. If this wasn't true, then the various corporations of both alliances would join Factional Warfare and fight under the banner of the Gallente or Minmatar. NOT the banner of the Heretics or Star Faction Alliance.
Until then, they are working for their own selfish reasons.
--Isaac
Isaac's Haul*Mart
|
Gangleri
Amarr
Vigilia Valeria Expeditionary Forces
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 08:38:00 -
[61]
Corporations and pod pilots that have committed crimes against the Empire, its citizens or pilots flying with a neutral allegiance within the borders of the Amarr Empire have chosen themselves to be hunted down within the borders of our Empire. The fact that they joined the Amarr Militia under the "Emergency Militia War Powers Act" does not give them amnesty or salvation for their crimes nor does it give them legal protection. Every pirate has the chance of salvation, and if these pirates within the ranks of our militia are truly faithful to the Empire then they should demonstrate this by seeking redemption. It is again their choice not to do so and if they choice not to do so then every law obeying pod pilot, within CVA or not, has the full right to hunt down these pirates that are hiding within the ranks of the Amarr Militia. The Vigilia Valeria alliance has announced a clear statement on this matter.
VFOR is recruiting |
Kazzzi
Amarr
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 11:59:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Gangleri
and if these pirates within the ranks of our militia are truly faithful to the Empire then they should demonstrate this by seeking redemption.
Joining your militia and serving your ***** empress isn't an act of redemption in and of itself? Or are you saying that the Amarr Empire only authorizes CVA sanctioned criminal activity in the bleaks?
|
Dantalus Portos
Amarr
Vigilia Valeria Expeditionary Forces
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 12:07:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Dantalus Portos on 03/02/2009 12:08:24
Edited by: Dantalus Portos on 03/02/2009 12:08:11
Originally by: Kazzzi
Joining your militia and serving your ***** empress isn't an act of redemption in and of itself?[/quote
That is precisely Marshall Gangleri's point. A pirate that passes the frankly lax admission procedures to join the Amarr Militia is still a pirate. Redemption starts with diplomacy, renouncing past piratical deeds and making appropriate compensation to those parties that have suffered by these deeds. Thus begins the process of removing a pilot or entity from the KOS list.
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MirrorGod
Heretic Army
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 13:29:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
If this wasn't true, then the various corporations of both alliances would join Factional Warfare and fight under the banner of the Gallente or Minmatar. NOT the banner of the Heretics or Star Faction Alliance.
Until then, they are working for their own selfish reasons.
--Isaac
Go ahead and check out where Heretic Army is enlisted, please. 
[center]
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 15:00:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Mebrithiel Ju'wien
The only solution I can see to this is that CVA leave the field of battle and go hide back in Providence.
Interestingly enough, Hardin's solution seems to be working out just fine: shortly after this very announcement, CVA and Severance forces polished off an x13 tower in Sahtogas without incident from 24th Imperial Crusade forces. I was part of the small advance element which visited the tower as it was still in reinforced to ensure all of its weapons were out of commission. We encountered several of the non-red pilots and organizations who have complained in this very discussion of CVA heavy-handedness, and there was no shooting, no hostile words, no problems of any kind.
While in the area, we reported strongholds, hostiles, and offered assistance against any large pirate or Minmatar Militia fleets that may have been around (there were none). This was a personal choice of the pilots in our fleet.
The primary issues that have changed for CVA is that such cooperation is no longer CVA policy, and that we will no longer behave towards the Crusade in a way that is diplomatically expedient...but tactically expedient. When a CVA/Holders engagement against our reds turns into a fight with neutrals supporting CVA hostiles, we will simply clear the field of any vessels engaged in hostilities against our forces and leave it at that. This was not previously how the situation was handled. |
Heromann
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 17:54:00 -
[66]
Some of you missed the point there.
It's easy for CVA, UK, UM to stay in their own little space and condemn action of the militia when they are NOT in the fight. Do they support the militia every once an a while? Sure, but only when it is advantageous to themselves.
Heretics are IN the miltia.
Star Fraction FIGHTS in the war space.
CVA, UK, UM, etc sit in their 0.0 space fighting for themselves and THEIR territory, not the respective empires they claim to assist.
|
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Solaris Operations
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 18:12:00 -
[67]
Originally by: MirrorGod
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
If this wasn't true, then the various corporations of both alliances would join Factional Warfare and fight under the banner of the Gallente or Minmatar. NOT the banner of the Heretics or Star Faction Alliance.
Until then, they are working for their own selfish reasons.
--Isaac
Go ahead and check out where Heretic Army is enlisted, please.
My terrible bad. I thought the Heretic Alliance was still around. But my point still stands about the Star Faction. Regardless of whether or not they "own space" it is still their selfish reasons that they engage Amarrian forces in the bleak Lands. Not for Minmatar.
*screen flickers away*
--Isaac
Isaac's Haul*Mart
|
Elise Randolph
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 18:18:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Garreck
Interestingly enough, Hardin's solution seems to be working out just fine: shortly after this very announcement, CVA and Severance forces polished off an x13 tower in Sahtogas without incident from 24th Imperial Crusade forces. I was part of the small advance element which visited the tower as it was still in reinforced to ensure all of its weapons were out of commission. We encountered several of the non-red pilots and organizations who have complained in this very discussion of CVA heavy-handedness, and there was no shooting, no hostile words, no problems of any kind.
It was my understand from this announcement that CVA declared they would attack the Amarr Militia, not the other way around. And secondly, I wouldn't say that the reluctance of a smaller force to attack a larger one connotes a successful policy. If a small CVA force ran upon a larger Slacker Industries force and decided not to engage, I wouldn't take that to mean CVA rethought their standings towards us and decided we were no longer "heathen pirates".
Originally by: Garreck
While in the area, we reported strongholds, hostiles, and offered assistance against any large pirate or Minmatar Militia fleets that may have been around (there were none). This was a personal choice of the pilots in our fleet.
The primary issues that have changed for CVA is that such cooperation is no longer CVA policy, and that we will no longer behave towards the Crusade in a way that is diplomatically expedient...but tactically expedient.
I was under the impression that pursuing CVA interests was CVA's modus operandi from the start, and this was confirmed by their actions and even their statements.
Again, what I take issue with here is not CVA's policy - I could care less of the policy - but of implications that previously the CVA were noble and helpful in their relations with the Militia. The only times I noticed, or even heard of, the helping hand of CVA is when certain CVA pilots decided to dismiss protocol and assist "reds", much like your advanced fleet did today.
From last week to this week nothing has changed with the CVA's actions towards the Militia, so the only thing that rational minds are left to believe is that this announcement was either: a means to get attention, or intentional promulgation of disinformation. |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 18:39:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Garreck on 03/02/2009 18:41:03
Originally by: Elise Randolph
It was my understand from this announcement that CVA declared they would attack the Amarr Militia, not the other way around.
Allow me to clarify, then:
It has always been CVA policy to engage CVA reds in the Crusade. However, it has also been CVA policy to try and handle the diplomatic fallout when neutrals became involved who had no idea of the standings issue between CVA and our targets. This manifested itself sometimes as reparations paid to neutrals who lost their ships in the confusion, and also manifested itself as the rejection of "KOS requests" against neutrals simply acting to defend against what they viewed as hostilities from CVA towards the Crusade (rather than a target within the Crusade).
The policy is now to continue to engage our enemies within the Crusade, and to further engage any who defend them without remorse or concern or any diplomatic actions on their behalf. If CVA vessels are fired upon by any in the Militia for any reason, CVA vessels will simply handle the tactical situation at hand by clearing the field of any aggressive vessels. There will no longer be diplomatic follow-up.
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Reilly Jax
Amarr
Freespace Technologies
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 20:09:00 -
[70]
This is actualy a pretty sweet deal for CVA & team.
Allow me to explain, see, the minnies they are purely KOS to the amarr militia, so if an amarr fleet engages them, the full brunt of its force is applied. either resulting in the termination of said fleet, or the defeat of the attacking fleet, but there isnt any hesitation to engaged.
With this ROE set, CVA & co can wander around the bleaks hunting for their "reds". when they find them, they get to apply all of the force of their collective fleet to the "reds". The individuals who are being attacked will respond in kind, but their support, depending on composition, could hesistate, or flat out refuse to engage. CVA applying 100% of its force to their objective will only recieve a fraction of force in return, if even for only a few secods. it gives the a HUGE advantage...
many of you are aware how having the initiative in combat is the key to victory. with this rule set, CVA will always have the initiative. They will be able to cull fleets of key members, and then respond to those who REACT to their agression.
This is a Fleet Commanders DREAM, hats off to you guys.
So what if that fleet was headed over to Lantorn or kourmonen to push a 20 strong fleet of minnies out of a major unrestricted, that could verywell flip the system. before they ran into cva the had 25, afterwards they had 8, those 8 should have NO problem what so ever of pushing those still remaining minnie folks out of that plex... oh wait.
the key thing here is, the enemey... you konw, the guys who bombed amarr prime, murdered millions in an overt act of agression, well they take 0 losses and achieve their objective without incident, then they move on and gank a few FW folks running about.
Hats off to CVA, the Amarrian RP alliance who has sworn to defend the empire, the UK couldnt do a better job if they tried.
The truth is in CVA & co's actions... they could give two sh**s about FW. They want to get their gun off, their targets arent in amarr/prov lowsec so they will move to where they are, in the bleak lands and the metropolis region.
It will be neat to see long time and staunch allies... on their killboard.
Just remember folks... the only people who can betray you are your friends and family.
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Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 20:54:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Hardin on 03/02/2009 20:55:08
Originally by: Reilly Jax
The truth is in CVA & co's actions... they could give two sh**s about FW. They want to get their gun off, their targets arent in amarr/prov lowsec so they will move to where they are, in the bleak lands and the metropolis region.
1) I would suggest you actually read the first post again before posting further. Primarily the sentence highlighted in bold:
While neither CVA, nor our allies, will be deliberately seeking out fights with criminals in the Amarr Militia (and of course the entirety of the Minmatar Militia remains KOS to us), neither will be prevented from doing business in and patrolling areas of low-sec Amarrian space - and if this leads to clashes with reds in the Militia then so be it.
2) CVA already has plenty of targets in low-sec Domain/Derelik and Providence. Approximately 25 billion ISK worth of targets every WEEK. We have no need to hunt reds in Bleaks to find targets. However we will no longer give criminal Militia pilots the 'benefit of the doubt' when the entering the Deliverance area, nor do we expect our allies such as sev3rance who have trade/industrial interests the Bleaklands to ignore pirating by Militia members.
3) Pirates attacking Amarrian shipping in low-sec are in our view as much of an enemy to the Empire as the Minmatar rebels are. That is why the CVA has focused on developing law and order in low-sec Amarrian space and Holy Amarrian Providence. That is why the areas patrolled by us and our allies are amongst the most populated and thriving in the Galaxy. We cannot allow the security of Amarrian space to be put a risk by pirates using the Crusade as an excuse to escape justice.
4) We recognise the importance of the Crusade to the Empire and have indeed provided it with much support. However it is our view that the in the longer term the Militia will be strengthened when its has purged those elements of it which have no true loyalty to the Empire and are simply seeking a quick ISK and some glamourous titles. While some may see our anti-pirate commitment as 'obstructive' we consider it more of a 'pruning' which will strength the Militia and the Empire in the long run. The Amarr have always been a patient race and we don't seek an easy way out or 'victory at all costs'. We can no longer ignore the criminal acts of 'some' pilots in the Crusade who believe their membership of the Crusade legitimises their criminality.
-----
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Reilly Jax
Amarr
Freespace Technologies
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 21:25:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Hardin
Edited by: Hardin on 03/02/2009 20:55:08
Originally by: Reilly Jax
The truth is in CVA & co's actions... they could give two sh**s about FW. They want to get their gun off, their targets arent in amarr/prov lowsec so they will move to where they are, in the bleak lands and the metropolis region.
1) I would suggest you actually read the first post again before posting further. Primarily the sentence highlighted in bold:
While neither CVA, nor our allies, will be deliberately seeking out fights with criminals in the Amarr Militia (and of course the entirety of the Minmatar Militia remains KOS to us), neither will be prevented from doing business in and patrolling areas of low-sec Amarrian space - and if this leads to clashes with reds in the Militia then so be it.
2) CVA already has plenty of targets in low-sec Domain/Derelik and Providence. Approximately 25 billion ISK worth of targets every WEEK. We have no need to hunt reds in Bleaks to find targets. However we will no longer give criminal Militia pilots the 'benefit of the doubt' when the entering the Deliverance area, nor do we expect our allies such as sev3rance who have trade/industrial interests the Bleaklands to ignore pirating by Militia members.
3) Pirates attacking Amarrian shipping in low-sec are in our view as much of an enemy to the Empire as the Minmatar rebels are. That is why the CVA has focused on developing law and order in low-sec Amarrian space and Holy Amarrian Providence. That is why the areas patrolled by us and our allies are amongst the most populated and thriving in the Galaxy. We cannot allow the security of Amarrian space to be put a risk by pirates using the Crusade as an excuse to escape justice.
4) We recognise the importance of the Crusade to the Empire and have indeed provided it with much support. However it is our view that the in the longer term the Militia will be strengthened when its has purged those elements of it which have no true loyalty to the Empire and are simply seeking a quick ISK and some glamourous titles. While some may see our anti-pirate commitment as 'obstructive' we consider it more of a 'pruning' which will strength the Militia and the Empire in the long run. The Amarr have always been a patient race and we don't seek an easy way out or 'victory at all costs'. We can no longer ignore the criminal acts of 'some' pilots in the Crusade who believe their membership of the Crusade legitimises their criminality.
I appologise, i missed that when i read it the first time. Im sure you can understand my position having missed that part.
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Saint Hauler
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Posted - 2009.02.03 23:56:00 -
[73]
*The screen flickers as the neocom starts up*
Yeah - CVA and the Amarr Militia
*shrugs* |
Foolish Bob
Caldari
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 00:44:00 -
[74]
wait, wait, back up a little bit here...
there are PIRATES in the Amarr Militia?!? 
At the end of the day, as hard as the loyalists work, the warzone would be a very different place if those of us who fight for the fight itself rather than for some lofty goal were not present. The truth of that matter is that, assuming CVA do want to see the militia in any way victorious, then they have to make a choice between their principles and that victory. Not to sound all Star Fraction-y but to establish principles of warfare and loose, surely shows that those principles are not suitable for the war you wish to wage. The following quote is brought to mind:
"I sometimes dream of a land built on trust and honour, a land without lies or deceit. Then I dream of attacking that land, because they'll never suspect it"
You cannot change our nature, it was futile to try. Instead you should use it. Pay us to declare war on those that are supporting the Minmatar. Assign bounties. We will fight, just give us reason to fight your enemies more than your allies. Bring us targets and maybe we won't go hunting for our own so much.
Finally, I also suspect that there would be far less issue with piracy if the minmatar didn't spend all their time hiding either in a blob or a station, but I've ranted about that already in another place. Still nice to see that what I warned has come to pass - too bad for them really.
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Laboratory Chick
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 02:18:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Saint Hauler
*The screen flickers as the neocom starts up*
Yeah - CVA and the Amarr Militia
*shrugs*
That is far more accurate than you realize....
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Romulus Maldonado
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 07:49:00 -
[76]
I commend CVA for standing on its principles and support their efforts in Providence. At the fifth alliance tournament, I watched a CCP spokesperson bemoan the fact that only 19% of the New Eden population resided in null sec. To that individual, I say, look at your own maps. Every gateway into null sec has dozens of pod kills, most by pirates. Yet CVA has taken great pains to establish a free commerce zone inside their null sec holdings. Providence is a place where lawful pilots can experience great opportunity with others who respect Amarrian law. As long as CVA upholds their position of honor and support for the empire, they will have my loyalty and humble gratitude. |
Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 11:46:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Heromann
Some of you missed the point there.
It's easy for CVA, UK, UM to stay in their own little space and condemn action of the militia when they are NOT in the fight. Do they support the militia every once an a while? Sure, but only when it is advantageous to themselves.
Heretics are IN the miltia.
Star Fraction FIGHTS in the war space.
CVA, UK, UM, etc sit in their 0.0 space fighting for themselves and THEIR territory, not the respective empires they claim to assist.
You seem to be unaware that the U'K alliance, having been prevented from joining the militia, have had more than one individual corp fighting IN the militia.
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Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 11:54:00 -
[78]
The question which arises in my mind regarding CVA's stance is what CVA care more about? Fighting piracy within the empire or territorial expansion of the empire?
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Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 14:32:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Poreuomai
The question which arises in my mind regarding CVA's stance is what CVA care more about? Fighting piracy within the empire or territorial expansion of the empire?
Both.
Holy Amarrian Providence grew out of efforts to control piracy in the low-sec Domain and then developed when it became clear that pirates were using Providence as a starting point for their depredations of low-sec Amarrian trade.
Slowly but surely under the auspices of 'Operation Deliverance' CVA and our loyalist allies expanded our foothold in Providence, in the process evicting the pirates and terrorists who had bases in the region. The development of our 0.0 holdings developed in tandem with the development of security and anti-piracy communities in low-sec Domain and more recently Derelik (http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=947079).
Our goal is that the Empire, when it is ready, will recognise the work that CVA and our allies have undertaken in Providence and 'officially' integrate Amarrian Providence into Empire - with the Amarrian Navy stepping in to provide additional security. When this happens CVA and our allies will focus on bringing Amarrian civilisation to another region of lawless 0.0.
In the meantime we will continue to police Amarrian Providence and Amarrian low-sec vs piracy as we have always done - working alongside law-abiding pilots who, like us, wish to see Amarrian law and order prevail over lawlessness and terrorism.
While we are not currently in an expansionist phase and are focused on developing and strengthening the security of the 'Deliverance' regions we do not rule out further expansion if it is necessary to ensure the security of the Deliverance area.
If for example your terroristic alliance decided to sieze territory bordering our own we and our allies would have no option but to respond in force
Amarr Victor
-----
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Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:22:00 -
[80]
I suppose for you the expansion of the empire and the elimination of piracy is one and the same. An Amamake ruled by Amarr pirates would be as objectionable as an Amamake ruled by Minmatar pirates.
Let My People Go |
Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:37:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Poreuomai
I suppose for you the expansion of the empire and the elimination of piracy is one and the same. An Amamake ruled by Amarr pirates would be as objectionable as an Amamake ruled by Minmatar pirates.
We oppose piracy in Amarrian/Ammatar space. If the lesser civilisations cannot control piracy in their claimed sovereignty it simply serves as an example of Amarrian superiority.
-----
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Zoku
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Posted - 2009.02.05 16:46:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Hardin
We oppose piracy in Amarrian/Ammatar space. If the lesser civilisations cannot control piracy in their claimed sovereignty it simply serves as an example of Amarrian superiority.
Are those the same lesser civilisations who's civilians make up the best part of your alliance?
Let's quit with the Amarr loyalist crap as well Hardin, your aims are purely to engulf Providence, Catch and Derelik with your sick Imperialist ideals.
I've sc****d bugs off the bottom of my boot that have more integrity than you Hardin. 
----------------------------------------
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Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 19:13:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Hardin on 05/02/2009 19:14:20
Originally by: Nebulous
I've sc****d bugs off the bottom of my boot that have more integrity than you Hardin.
Ah an angry terrorist. My day has been made!
The fact is that Amarrian Providence is a shining beacon of light in this troubled universe. Its sizeable and growing population is testament to our (and our allies) success in bringing law and order to what was once just a pirate infested hell-hole.
We don't force people to come here but they come because they recognise that we Amarrians provide a bedrock of civilisation and stability which no one else can.
As for our membership, yes some are from the lesser civilisations. Indeed it is precisely because they are from lesser civilisations that they have recognised that the Amarrian way is superior and are therefore as zealous as we are in protecting and developing Amarrian values!
It is inevitable that all will reach this conclusion eventually!
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Zanco Ceal
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 21:22:00 -
[84]
No offense Grr, but how is taking a leading role and providing fc experience, leadership and combat expertise disrupting militia operations?
How can you say that with a straight face while CVA's allies come to militia territory and gank ships right out from under our fleets as we prepare to engage the Minmatar?
Which is more disrupting?
If CVA wants to come into militia operational space and shoot their own reds with blatant disregard for how this affects militia operations then that is their prerogative.
The Militia was sanctioned by the Empire and you attacking it's forces put you in direct conflict with it's operations, regardless of your intentions. This is not up for debate. It is fact. Militia gangs will continue to defend their members from you and your allies' attack so I guess soon enough most corps within the militia will be set red to Providence holder alliances. Spin it all you want with whatever supposed high morals and high ground supremacist attitude you like but in the end you will be working fully AGAINST the efforts of the Empire to retake the lowsec area from the minmatar every time time you come to our area of operations. Amarr loyal alliances indeed.
this x2
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 22:55:00 -
[85]
Frankly, I don't really see the point to this whole discussion. There has always been a wide dividing line between those loyal to the Amarrian cause and pirate. On the one hand, you have a group of people that slaughter innocents, invent whole new methods to torture and abuse women and children, and plunder the hard work of others for their own benefit. On the other hand, you have pirates. See what I mean?
--
Becq Starforged
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 23:15:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Hardin
Ah an angry terrorist. My day has been made!
yes, we're normally so fluffy and loveable. at least you've stopped calling us pirates, but im starting to understand CVA-speak. anyone hostile is a pirate, and a pirate is anyone hosile, even if they operate NRDS.
Quote:
The fact is that Amarrian Providence is a shining beacon of light in this troubled universe. Its sizeable and growing population is testament to our (and our allies) success in bringing law and order to what was once just a pirate infested hell-hole.
providence is a beacon of oppression and subjugation and the maggots wriggling through its putrid flesh are a testament to the greed of the average capsuleer, willingness to sell out any self determination and ethical sense they may have once had to suckle from the slavers' teat.
but at least you are no longer pretending to follow the will of your "divine ruler" and have finally admitted that CVA will always act in its own self interest, whatever the moral cost. |
xGradiusx
Minmatar
Shoot To Thrill
Un-Natural Selection
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 10:36:00 -
[87]
God has called for nbsi in this galaxy. CVA willstill suck until they follow that policy.
GETTHEPOD! |
BattleStar Crusader
Amarr
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 10:57:00 -
[88]
Absinthe Brothers Consortium is part of the amarr milita, we are also KOS to providences becuase of one small misunderstanding, my corp when in fleet formation quite often froms the back bone of the fleet, and 7/10 times will be on its way to egnage a large minmitar force. Now if CVA and the providence folk attack My guys in fleet formation A) the fleet is considerably weeker and B) the fc will be gone. Now the problem is being KOS my corp falls into the criminal/pirate catacgory shoved onto use byt the KOS list. When in fact we have never pirated, agressed providence in any way or even attempted to enter, and often go in all out conflict with the pirates attacking the amarr milita.
Sense Any one
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Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 18:49:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Hardin
Originally by: Poreuomai
I suppose for you the expansion of the empire and the elimination of piracy is one and the same. An Amamake ruled by Amarr pirates would be as objectionable as an Amamake ruled by Minmatar pirates.
We oppose piracy in Amarrian/Ammatar space. If the lesser civilisations cannot control piracy in their claimed sovereignty it simply serves as an example of Amarrian superiority.
If Amamake falls to the Amarr, then the Amarr will want to control piracy in their claimed sovereignty.
The Amarr loyalists have to ask themselves whether they would want to gain Amamake with the help of Amarr pirates or not. PIE seem to be saying Yes, CVA seem to be saying No. |
Grr
Amarr
Epitoth Fleetyards
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 19:00:00 -
[90]
Originally by: BattleStar Crusader
Absinthe Brothers Consortium is part of the amarr milita, we are also KOS to providences becuase of one small misunderstanding, my corp when in fleet formation quite often froms the back bone of the fleet, and 7/10 times will be on its way to egnage a large minmitar force. Now if CVA and the providence folk attack My guys in fleet formation A) the fleet is considerably weeker and B) the fc will be gone. Now the problem is being KOS my corp falls into the criminal/pirate catacgory shoved onto use byt the KOS list. When in fact we have never pirated, agressed providence in any way or even attempted to enter, and often go in all out conflict with the pirates attacking the amarr milita.
Sense Any one
I'm not going to go into details here on a public forum but there are several incidents on record as to why your corp is KOS including several acts of piracy.
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Sebastien Starstrider
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 20:16:00 -
[91]
I fully support an everlasting and costly conflict between the forces if CVA and their enemies within the Amarr Militia. And I do hope that the conflict will escalate drastically, with the Amarr Militia fighting back alongside their like-wise disillusioned 'bretheren', against their like-wise disillusioned foes.
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Vaarun
Amarr
PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 22:28:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Vaarun on 06/02/2009 22:29:06
Originally by: Poreuomai
The Amarr loyalists have to ask themselves whether they would want to gain Amamake with the help of Amarr pirates or not. PIE seem to be saying Yes, CVA seem to be saying No.
"seem to" and reality can be AUs apart.
There are nuances to our stances which the galaxy at-large is not privvy to.
The public declarations will stand as they are.
Originally by: Sebastien Starstrider
I fully support an everlasting and costly conflict between the forces if CVA and their enemies within the Amarr Militia. And I do hope that the conflict will escalate drastically, with the Amarr Militia fighting back alongside their like-wise disillusioned 'bretheren', against their like-wise disillusioned foes.
How are you at dealing with "disappointment"?
"To bring order to chaos, one must bring chaos to its knees."
-Vaarun |
Cattletard Evader
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 23:54:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Grr
Originally by: BattleStar Crusader
Absinthe Brothers Consortium is part of the amarr milita, we are also KOS to providences becuase of one small misunderstanding, my corp when in fleet formation quite often froms the back bone of the fleet, and 7/10 times will be on its way to egnage a large minmitar force. Now if CVA and the providence folk attack My guys in fleet formation A) the fleet is considerably weeker and B) the fc will be gone. Now the problem is being KOS my corp falls into the criminal/pirate catacgory shoved onto use byt the KOS list. When in fact we have never pirated, agressed providence in any way or even attempted to enter, and often go in all out conflict with the pirates attacking the amarr milita.
Sense Any one
I'm not going to go into details here on a public forum but there are several incidents on record as to why your corp is KOS including several acts of piracy.
Wut? We nayver aggresst teh providance or have been pireting - so pleese come forwart with aby accusations publically! |
Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 10:43:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 07/02/2009 10:46:15
Originally by: Vaarun
Originally by: Poreuomai
The Amarr loyalists have to ask themselves whether they would want to gain Amamake with the help of Amarr pirates or not. PIE seem to be saying Yes, CVA seem to be saying No.
"seem to" and reality can be AUs apart.
There are nuances to our stances which the galaxy at-large is not privvy to.
The public declarations will stand as they are.
Yes, indeed, it is very clear that your public words and your actual intentions are not exactly one and the same - as I find it unlikely that you really intend to open fire on CVA, and I suspect therefore that CVA do not intend to engage militia pirates when PIE is around. |
BattleStar Crusader
Amarr
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 10:54:00 -
[95]
I'm not going to go into details here on a public forum but there are several incidents on record as to why your corp is KOS including several acts of piracy.
Please inform us of these incedent becuase we dont know of them, as every time we ask you to provide evidence you cease the communications or change subject.
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Mr Teatimeer
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 13:29:00 -
[96]
What the hell is CVA ????
I heard of Goonswarm, BOB (R.I.P.), AAA but I never hear anything about a CVA |
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Solaris Operations
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 16:54:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Mr Teatimeer
What the hell is CVA ????
I heard of Goonswarm, BOB (R.I.P.), AAA but I never hear anything about a CVA
*screen flickers to life yet again*
*Isaac sighs at Mr. Teatimeer*
Leave these forums troll. Want to know what CVA is? Look here. This is RP forums, not COAD.
*Screen flickers away*
--Isaac
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 19:05:00 -
[98]
I fear that I can't leave this discussion without noting with great amusement how Garreck eagerly grasped at the slender line thrown to him by the noble Karn Mithralia. I seem to see in my mind's eye a man struggling in the turbulent waters, let us imagine he is a wine merchant wrecked at sea, who then espies what he takes to be a small fishing smack cutting towards him. The master of this boat throws out the line and the merchant pulls himself aboard, shakes himself and cries out, 'Hail fellow, well met! ...', only to have further words die in his mouth as he looks about and realises he is aboard that most noble of vessels, a smuggler's sloop, richly stocked with wine that has paid no duty. All taken with all, the rescued man is grateful, but he is not by any means in the same position as the smuggler, for once returned to dry land he has to go back to paying duty on his goods... unless by some extraordinary conversion the merchant sees the benefits of anarchist economics.
Now, Karn is right to make the remarks he does about the militia system and I agree with them in all their essentials. It seems Garreck also has some sympathy for them. But myself and Karn are in the position of belonging to free organisations that do not define themselves by loyalty towards any particular government or empire. The Ushra'Khan has many times acted in defiance of the Minmatar Republic, its prime loyalty being to the goal of abolishing utterly slavery in general and the enslavement of the Minmatar in particular. The position of the Star Fraction with regard to governments needs I think no elaboration.
Garreck's problem is that whatever his attitude to the absurdities of the CONCORD Emergency Militia War Powers Act may be, the Empire he and his alliance claim to be loyal to is currently happy to make use of its provisions. The Amarr Empire is conducting a crusade, no less, under the asupices of this act and while I agree with Karn on the absurdity of the CONCORD provisions, and also the likely fact that they have a dark purpose underlying them, I don't think I agree with the faint implication that Garreck and his ilk can justly evade the charge that their actions are questionable, at best, in terms of their oft-claimed 'loyalty'.
The basic problem remains: the Amarr Empire measures loyalty in capsuleer paramilitaries by their service in the 24th Imperial Crusade, and it seems incredible that the CVA can expect to have their claims of loyalty taken seriously when they now say that they will shoot militia fighters loyal to the Empire without entering into diplomacy. That's nothing to do with the terms of the militia act because the Empire have no difficulty with those terms. What it is all about is the CVA being discomfited by the fact that the Empire now has a standard by which it measures loyalty and that capsuleers that meet it can justly claim they are loyal no matter what the CVA may claim.
The Cosmopolite
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Monkey M3n
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Posted - 2009.02.09 02:11:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Monkey M3n on 09/02/2009 02:11:12
When i killed a golem and paladin 2 days ago in cva space i started to wonder how big is your stupid KOS list. So exactly how big is it O_O OVER 9000!!!!!!? |
Mr Teatimeer
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Posted - 2009.02.11 18:48:00 -
[100]
Isaac, go to Thailand or Brazil or wherever and get some girls and stop taking this game so damn serious for crying out loud
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Tweakalvos
R0GUE ENTITY
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Posted - 2009.02.11 23:11:00 -
[101]
Well for a hypocritical organization I can understand why the militia doesn't want help from CVA. I don't understand why the Empress herself doesn't investigate your corrupt practices.
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Tash' Ehreondii
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Posted - 2009.02.28 04:28:00 -
[102]
Well, I do agree that CVA has excersized every possible diplomatic effort. But mabe this is a sign for all of us. Mabe it's time to let diplomacy die and every one of us apposed to piracy strap on the dps and truly refuse to tollerate it's practice.
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Dan' Ehr
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Posted - 2009.02.28 04:38:00 -
[103]
I know what you mean about "Labeled" as a pirate because a minor incident is on the darn list. I feel many things in eve are in need of revision. And it's real easy to do something that seems criminal during war from a specific point of view.
Nomatter you are a criminal or not, in war, it only makes sense to allow the aid of an element that you intend to dispose of anyway. So who cares if some of them are pirates? As long as they help win the war. We will kill the pirates after.
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Rachaiel
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.02.28 09:31:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Siobhan
Edited by: Siobhan on 01/02/2009 00:16:22
We would remind law-abiding members of the Militia that should they seek to protect known pirates from justice û they too will be considered criminals.
I agree that the recruiting policies of the crusade have lead to many unsavoury and indeed piratical individuals taking refuge under their banner, and would never seek to protect them from the righteous wrath of the servants of the Imperium, but you should look to your own recruitment to operation Deliverence.
By the behaviour of your allies within holy Providence, it appears you have already decided to attack law abiding members of the militia on sight.
I was trying to suppress the insidious Sansha presence in Providence before returning to the front when I was attacked, without warning, by your so called allies in Sev3rence and other corporations who seem to have no real connection with the Empire at all, but nevertheless are considered friends by yourselves.
Senior members of the Curatores Veritatis Alliance seemed utterly unconcerned by this incident. Rest assured that it has been reported to the Imperial security services. |
Morden Nok
Cohortes Vigilum
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.28 10:50:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Rachaiel
By the behaviour of your allies within holy Providence, it appears you have already decided to attack law abiding members of the militia on sight.
Originally by: Rachaiel
Senior members of the Curatores Veritatis Alliance seemed utterly unconcerned by this incident. Rest assured that it has been reported to the Imperial security services.
Your previous corporation is KOS to CVA and thus you will be considered KOS until you join a real corporation that has at least rudimentary standards of recruitment, unlike 24th Imperial Crusade or Viziam.
This is standard operating procedure and is clearly spelled out in our rules for Providence.
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Caiman Graystock
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.28 13:00:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Caiman Graystock on 28/02/2009 12:59:47
Hear hear. The militias are becoming a real problem and if the empires have any sense they will cut them loose.
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Rocius
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.02.28 13:51:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Hardin
Edited by: Hardin on 03/02/2009 20:55:08
Lies..... Hypocritical comments.... Standard rhetoric...
I still think it rather strange, that you have the courage to stand up, show your face, and even touch a topic that involves piracy. I find it rather amusing that given the isk that YOU have made, doing your little side buisness, that you dare touch stuff like this. I guess the random founding of varied alliances that are specificly set up to engage in piracy is totaly different somehow that being involved in piracy. No matter that you made isk from it or not?
I guess I should expect no less a level of deciet and hypocricy from a man of your stature, you are after all, what you are.
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Rachaiel
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.02.28 16:03:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Morden Nok
Originally by: Rachaiel
By the behaviour of your allies within holy Providence, it appears you have already decided to attack law abiding members of the militia on sight.
Originally by: Rachaiel
Senior members of the Curatores Veritatis Alliance seemed utterly unconcerned by this incident. Rest assured that it has been reported to the Imperial security services.
Your previous corporation is KOS to CVA and thus you will be considered KOS until you join a real corporation that has at least rudimentary standards of recruitment, unlike 24th Imperial Crusade or Viziam.
This is standard operating procedure and is clearly spelled out in our rules for Providence.
Then why were your diplomats not able to supply this explanation? By making this public I have at least obtained a clear answer.
In any case your rules state the following:
"CVA consider that anyone in an NPC corp, whose last player corp was a red corp, to still be red"
This implies that someone leaving a red corp will remain red, not that someone whose last corp has become red (over a year, mind, after parting ways) will also become red.
I can understand that that is not what you meant your rules to say, but to state as you do that your rules are clearly spelled out seems incorrect.
Furthermore on entering the name of my previous corp on your galnet page it says quite clearly "Not KoS". I now understand that they have joined an alliance that is KoS, but our association is so ancient that I did not at the time realise this.
I suspect that the pilot who lead the destruction of my vessel to have been more interested in the false honour of a killmail than the security of Providence - a simple request to move on would have of course been honoured.
However now that you have at last clearly stated your rules I will avoid entering your province until my situation is such that there will be no further misunderstandings with trigger happy pirate hunters.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.28 17:34:00 -
[109]
Only giant alliances with territory seem to complain over a couple dead pod pilots.
I mean how dare someone go to LAWLESS space and shoot something?
Stop, hammer time. |
Spurty
Caldari
Amok.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.02.28 20:09:00 -
[110]
ah yes, people on your side shooting you is the very best of eve.
How dare anyone get upset at friendly fire lol
</sarcasm>
now i have a gazzlion Counter strike ff on servers to go pop some team mates and take their AWPs off em.
</honestly, I do this from time to time>
BrRAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiNNNNNNZzzzzzzzzzzz |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.01 01:43:00 -
[111]
So.. when the Imperial Navy pull over a CVA ship for smuggling, or other offenses related to his piloting. How does it become 'ok' for them to therefore disregard the will of the Empress (and as I understand it, the will of God) as a result?
Or are you all choosing to disregard the fact that the militia is fighting on behalf of the Empire and you're just building your own down in Providence?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.01 01:47:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Rachaiel
Originally by: Morden Nok
Originally by: Rachaiel
By the behaviour of your allies within holy Providence, it appears you have already decided to attack law abiding members of the militia on sight.
Originally by: Rachaiel
Senior members of the Curatores Veritatis Alliance seemed utterly unconcerned by this incident. Rest assured that it has been reported to the Imperial security services.
Your previous corporation is KOS to CVA and thus you will be considered KOS until you join a real corporation that has at least rudimentary standards of recruitment, unlike 24th Imperial Crusade or Viziam.
This is standard operating procedure and is clearly spelled out in our rules for Providence.
Then why were your diplomats not able to supply this explanation? By making this public I have at least obtained a clear answer.
In any case your rules state the following:
"CVA consider that anyone in an NPC corp, whose last player corp was a red corp, to still be red"
This implies that someone leaving a red corp will remain red, not that someone whose last corp has become red (over a year, mind, after parting ways) will also become red.
I can understand that that is not what you meant your rules to say, but to state as you do that your rules are clearly spelled out seems incorrect.
Furthermore on entering the name of my previous corp on your galnet page it says quite clearly "Not KoS". I now understand that they have joined an alliance that is KoS, but our association is so ancient that I did not at the time realise this.
I suspect that the pilot who lead the destruction of my vessel to have been more interested in the false honour of a killmail than the security of Providence - a simple request to move on would have of course been honoured.
However now that you have at last clearly stated your rules I will avoid entering your province until my situation is such that there will be no further misunderstandings with trigger happy pirate hunters.
I'm afraid that the CVA are more than happy to shovel their own agenda down your neck, wrapped around a convoluted knot of sophistry. All they're really trying to do is hide the fact that they've broken away from the Empire ages ago, and actually would much rather act as a classic territorialist-enclosurist entity. But as long as they can continue paying lip service to the ideal, then... well, they might as well really. More support back home has it's uses.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.03.01 12:22:00 -
[113]
Quote:
While the Minmatar may willingly recruit every random criminal to their cause in a vain attempt to ensure victory
Glad to be a random criminal and deface your faction 42 vs 4.
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=utype&tyid=5&cid=10000033
Imagine if we'd were any better than random criminals
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Starbud Paul
Amarr
R0GUE ENTITY
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Posted - 2009.03.03 03:38:00 -
[114]
OK BEFORE I START MY RAMBLINGS
Starbud disclames any spelling mistakes in this post due to drunkeness and weed consumption!!!!!
First of all OMG how the hell did this get to 4 pages long considering the length of blogs them goonie ****s are putting on this forum about the chin nutting they giving them bob ****s or ex bob ****s hahahaha
"come on people wtf GET A LIFE lolz Naturaly theirs not enought pewpew going on in eve if people can make 4 pages long links hehe "
Second Star faction have it spot on CVA again using their emo fit propaganda to try controll the fw carebears like the rest of their blind pets they have managed to fleese that reside in provy "ps **** poor space btw lolz great for kills like :D help me red attacking me in belt in locals always makes me lol very loud
Third big up to our homies in ushra khan \0/ o7
can i also add in big up any corp/alliance/peoples or person who are red to cva and their carebear colective and activly pawning the carbears in provi/domain and any other region they lay claim to in the empire's name
last point who realy cares ? this is coming from an alliance that controles everything has a alliance logo that kind of looks like a tree!
i have a idea go back under ur tree hold hands with all the rest of ur carebear freinds hug/kiss and sing songs ps may i remind u that a**l ghay **x carries with it the possibility of a std lol
and oh before i forget be champions
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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.03 16:02:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Starbud Paul
last point who realy cares ?
Every pilot who sees fit to bump a month old announcement with their rambling anti-CVA vitriol for starters.
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Aldrith Shutaq
Amarr
Ordo Nigrorum Susurri
Ordo Magna
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Posted - 2009.03.03 21:25:00 -
[116]
Really now, this hasn't been sorted out yet? It shames me to see pilots I followed and still respect during my time in the militia and my current allies in CVA squabbling over petty "who started what" situations, to the glee of our common enemies. Really I think this all roots from misunderstandings and poor KoS list bureaucracy, along with the odd "true agitator" that arises from time to time. Still, I see both sides of this conflict, and respect them.
Also, the simple fact that the Amarr militia is in essence an unpaid capsuleer mercenary force speaks for itself - you cannot expect it to follow rules concerning CVA when there is no way enforce it internally, as lady Siobhan pointed out in the original message. However, the fact stands that some of the best pilots and FC's in the Amarr militia are either former/current pirates or CVA reds. To ostracize them is to ostracize the entire Amarr militia, and rather than tolerate the odd hostile situation with ill-behaved members of the militia, CVA has chosen to withdraw support completely. I think this is a mistake, especially at a time when the Amarr militia is on its back foot.
While it has been about a month since my last ventures on the front lines, I never once engaged in an act of piracy when in a militia fleet being led by Battlestar Crusader, a member of Gunship Diplomacy, or anyone else whose integrity is being doubted by CVA. They all behaved exemplarily well and brought us many victories against the Tribal Liberation Force. What they did when not leading me and my brethren was none of my business, and all of us in the militia had an understanding that whatever your fellow pilot did off the battlefield did not matter. Unfortunately CVA cannot abide by that.
With this recognized, IÆd like to make a suggestion to CVA. Rather than setting offending militia pilots to the standard ôredö, could they be set to ôorangeö, where they are only KoS if they are within CVA space? This way CVA pilots can still cooperate with the unsavory elements within the militia while keeping their own territory safe. While IÆm not a diplomat and am not familiar with the nuances of the situation, might it be possible to reach such a compromise?
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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.03 22:14:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Aldrith Shutaq
Really now, this hasn't been sorted out yet?
It has, in fact, been sorted. It was sorted a month ago. This thread was merely an announcement of the fact.
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Aldrith Shutaq
Amarr
Ordo Nigrorum Susurri
Ordo Magna
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Posted - 2009.03.03 22:24:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Aldrith Shutaq on 03/03/2009 22:24:21
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Aldrith Shutaq
Really now, this hasn't been sorted out yet?
It has, in fact, been sorted. It was sorted a month ago. This thread was merely an announcement of the fact.
Well, I would argue that cutting off support and reportedly attacking the Amarr militia is a rather unfavorable way of sorting of it, but I stand corrected.
I apologize if I was being presumptuous. As I said I'm not familiar with what has been discussed since this announcement was made, but I felt I had to voice my concerns.
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