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[Issue] Tempest vs Mealstrom v2

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Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:26:00 - [31] Originally by: Sensor Boosting Originally by: Pattern Clarc Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 02/02/2009 08:58:03 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Pattern Clarc Sure, it would not beat a tempest 1v1 every single time now A tempest can beat a megat every time now if the pilot is any good. It's all down to the pilot. The fact that your trying to have this discussion in an attempt to suggest that the tempest equv to the megathron suggests that something wrong. Have you ever flown a typhoon against a megathron? Sure, they'll have similar bonuses, but beyond extra tracking 1v1 wise, little changes. For sniping and anti support, it sets it's self apart from the Maelstrom and creates a niche within the battleship line up - thats the objective, and I think I achieve that with these changes. i have flown a typhoon, but we r talking about the tempest here. with your changes its giving the tempest less dps (giving it more drones makes it worse as drones can be killed, thus losing more dps than current tq version). i still dont see how it will be a sniping anti-support....this is arties you are talking about isnt it? It'll have better tracking with artillery, and more alpha with 1400mm's (12.5% more) with an increased drone bay similar (but not as large as) the typhoon. ____ My Blog Is Awesome
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:31:00 - [32] Originally by: Pattern Clarc It'll have better tracking with artillery, and more alpha with 1400mm's (12.5% more) with an increased drone bay similar (but not as large as) the typhoon. If tracking is what matters in anti-support it will still be worse with arties. But you may have also created problems with the ship when used with AC's.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:23:00 - [33] I just noticed that the thread is titled " [Issue] Tempest vs Mealstrom v2". Mealstrom, om nom nom nom nom nom. You gotta admit, the Typhoon/Maelstrom does any role better than the Tempest, isn't that worth looking at? I would also like to see this Tempest fitting that can *beat any megathron pilot*.
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:32:00 - [34] Originally by: Vaal Erit I just noticed that the thread is titled " [Issue] Tempest vs Mealstrom v2". Mealstrom, om nom nom nom nom nom. You gotta admit, the Typhoon/Maelstrom does any role better than the Tempest, isn't that worth looking at? I would also like to see this Tempest fitting that can *beat any megathron pilot. He's probably thinking, LAR+1600mm plate, dual webs, dual neuts, or something, whilst forgetting that theres half a dozen ships in which that razor thin balance between death and the target warping the *** out just doesn't apply. Not that the situation in of it's self is how you balance anything. (lolapoc) ____ My Blog Is Awesome
Sensor Boosting	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:33:00 - [35] Originally by: Vaal Erit I just noticed that the thread is titled " [Issue] Tempest vs Mealstrom v2". Mealstrom, om nom nom nom nom nom. You gotta admit, the Typhoon/Maelstrom does any role better than the Tempest, isn't that worth looking at? I would also like to see this Tempest fitting that can *beat any megathron pilot*. tempest fitting is 800's siege launchers, gyrostabs, plates web, mwd painter, other stuff.....oh and pilot skill
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:46:00 - [36] Lol at this stupid thread. This is not balance ,this is how to make matar the best in everything even in fleet sniping.
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:05:00 - [37] Originally by: Naomi Knight Lol at this stupid thread. This is not balance ,this is how to make matar the best in everything even in fleet sniping. Nope, even after these changes, it would still have to go to the amarr.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:13:00 - [38] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Naomi Knight Lol at this stupid thread. This is not balance ,this is how to make matar the best in everything even in fleet sniping. Nope, even after these changes, it would still have to go to the amarr. Who cares about amarr as apoc is op. Both megathron and rokh would be completly useless compared to the tempest. Matar--> speed and hit and run close range race --> no need to have good sniper fleet bs
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:15:00 - [39] Originally by: Sensor Boosting Originally by: Vaal Erit I just noticed that the thread is titled " [Issue] Tempest vs Mealstrom v2". Mealstrom, om nom nom nom nom nom. You gotta admit, the Typhoon/Maelstrom does any role better than the Tempest, isn't that worth looking at? I would also like to see this Tempest fitting that can *beat any megathron pilot*. tempest fitting is 800's siege launchers, gyrostabs, plates web, mwd painter, other stuff.....oh and pilot skill Thanks for proving my point. Phoon does plate gank much better and the pest will do less damage than the megat at the same ranges, unless you are trying to make us believe you can stay out of web range of a megat? Pilot skill nothing, the megat is going to catch you and you will be fighting at 5km while webbed.
Sensor Boosting	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:22:00 - [40] Edited by: Sensor Boosting on 02/02/2009 12:25:51 Originally by: Vaal Erit Originally by: Sensor Boosting Originally by: Vaal Erit I just noticed that the thread is titled " [Issue] Tempest vs Mealstrom v2". Mealstrom, om nom nom nom nom nom. You gotta admit, the Typhoon/Maelstrom does any role better than the Tempest, isn't that worth looking at? I would also like to see this Tempest fitting that can *beat any megathron pilot*. tempest fitting is 800's siege launchers, gyrostabs, plates web, mwd painter, other stuff.....oh and pilot skill Thanks for proving my point. Phoon does plate gank much better and the pest will do less damage than the megat at the same ranges, unless you are trying to make us believe you can stay out of web range of a megat? Pilot skill nothing, the megat is going to catch you and you will be fighting at 5km while webbed. phoon = 5 heavy drones, 4 torps, 4 guns.....tempest = 6guns 2 launchers, 3 heavy drones.... different kind of gank ship. oh and you are supposed to web them back, or keep out of web range. but aparantly in another thread blasters cant hit anything orbiting it (i lol'ed tbh) if anything its ac's that need a dmg increase...as for the tempest itself...its fine
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:22:00 - [41] Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Naomi Knight Lol at this stupid thread. This is not balance ,this is how to make matar the best in everything even in fleet sniping. Nope, even after these changes, it would still have to go to the amarr. Who cares about amarr as apoc is op. Both megathron and rokh would be completly useless compared to the tempest. Matar--> speed and hit and run close range race --> no need to have good sniper fleet bs I don't think that even with 1650mm's, minmatar will be able to hit at 200km well. At there optimal, they would have the worst tracking by orders of magnitude, poor clip size with only 15% more alpha than tachyons on an Abaddon and a 5% damage increase. - As for the tempest, it would be basically the same as current but with more tracking on what is currently the worst tracking, poorest range turrets relative to all the other fleet snipers.
Sensor Boosting	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:29:00 - [42] Edited by: Sensor Boosting on 02/02/2009 12:31:33 Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Naomi Knight Lol at this stupid thread. This is not balance ,this is how to make matar the best in everything even in fleet sniping. Nope, even after these changes, it would still have to go to the amarr. Who cares about amarr as apoc is op. Both megathron and rokh would be completly useless compared to the tempest. Matar--> speed and hit and run close range race --> no need to have good sniper fleet bs I don't think that even with 1650mm's, minmatar will be able to hit at 200km well. At there optimal, they would have the worst tracking by orders of magnitude, poor clip size with only 15% more alpha than tachyons on an Abaddon and a 5% damage increase. - As for the tempest, it would be basically the same as current but with more tracking on what is currently the worst tracking, poorest range turrets relative to all the other fleet snipers. you seem to miss out falloff all the time....projectiles have the longest falloff. yeh u dont hit everytime in falloff but atleast u can hit way past optimal, unlike pulse lasers (which have a higher optimal to compensate for their low falloff) seems to me you are slowly turning this into a "my projectiles cant do what lasers are doing so amarr are overpowered" thread
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:37:00 - [43] Originally by: Sensor Boosting you seem to miss out falloff all the time....projectiles have the longest falloff. yeh u dont hit everytime in falloff but atleast u can hit way past optimal, unlike pulse lasers (which have a higher optimal to compensate for their low falloff) seems to me you are slowly turning this into a "my projectiles cant do what lasers are doing so amarr are overpowered" thread Artillery can't, and won't hit at the optimal ranges, megathrons and rokhs can instead... Happy?
Kayleigh Lothian KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:31:00 - [44] Yes please, make my large sailboat usefull again.
Machiu Troyan Uninvited Guests Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.02.02 16:37:00 - [45] Support ------------------
Riaz Qaadir	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:11:00 - [46] Supporting with my Amarr char so have reason to use my Minny char in BS
TimGascoigne The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:43:00 - [47] I am happily the first to say in any crowd that minmatar battleships are broken. However these changes will do nothing to help them. What you need to do is creativity a role for then not new module. After 2 1/2 years in the game I'm not really sure what the role of the tempist was ever meant to be....... Currently the typhoon is a reasonably good NPCing ship and close range BS. However it's split weapons mean that there is no best optimal range for it and alternatives like the Armageddon and Domi have better tank, DPS and alpha. The tempist is good at close range combat with artillery and siege missile launchs . However it is less useful at sniping then a mealstrom and utterly terrible in comparison to other ship in large fleets. The Maelstrom has a high alpha and that's where it needs to excel. Unfortunately it was made as a minmatar mission running ship. At which it is utterly terrible and cannot hit NPCs to justify undocking. This ship is best used as a fleet sniper however it becomes uncompetitive at any reasonable sniping range as its alpha is pathetically small in the shot optimal and long falloff. What actually needs to change: 1. Auto cannons - drastically. I can't remember the last time I saw an AC fit BS for PvE or PvP. Both terrible range and terrible tracking = no hits. 2. Theres no sniper BS. This race needs a sniping battleship that does large alpha traded with low DPS. However this is not in the game at the moment because the alpha cannot reach the target. atm not the tempist nor the mealstrom can be effectively manipulated into this role.
NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.02 18:17:00 - [48] Originally by: TimGascoigne I am happily the first to say in any crowd that minmatar battleships are broken. However these changes will do nothing to help them. What you need to do is creativity a role for then not new module. After 2 1/2 years in the game I'm not really sure what the role of the tempist was ever meant to be....... Currently the typhoon is a reasonably good NPCing ship and close range BS. However it's split weapons mean that there is no best optimal range for it and alternatives like the Armageddon and Domi have better tank, DPS and alpha. The tempist is good at close range combat with artillery and siege missile launchs . However it is less useful at sniping then a mealstrom and utterly terrible in comparison to other ship in large fleets. The Maelstrom has a high alpha and that's where it needs to excel. Unfortunately it was made as a minmatar mission running ship. At which it is utterly terrible and cannot hit NPCs to justify undocking. This ship is best used as a fleet sniper however it becomes uncompetitive at any reasonable sniping range as its alpha is pathetically small in the shot optimal and long falloff. What actually needs to change: 1. Auto cannons - drastically. I can't remember the last time I saw an AC fit BS for PvE or PvP. Both terrible range and terrible tracking = no hits. 2. Theres no sniper BS. This race needs a sniping battleship that does large alpha traded with low DPS. However this is not in the game at the moment because the alpha cannot reach the target. atm not the tempist nor the mealstrom can be effectively manipulated into this role. 1st. It's called Tempest, not Tempist. 2nd. Autocannons are totally fine as they are now. It's the Artillery that needs to be looked at. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
herindoors x Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.02 18:32:00 - [49] NT
Triest Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.02 20:36:00 - [50] I have long argued that the Tempest, and large projectiles in general, are in need of some fixing. A third artillery size, and a change to the Tempest/Maelstrom bonuses would go a fair way to fix them. I especially feel like the Maelstrom/Tempest need more to distinguish them for PVP; right now the Maelstrom is just a slower Tempest with more EHP.
Mal 2 Darkness and Chaos Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.02 22:19:00 - [51] Like it
Nagilam Quam Singulari Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.03 04:35:00 - [52] Edited by: Nagilam on 03/02/2009 04:35:12 Any kinda of debate, to boost Minmatar BS's, gets my approval. Although the Tempest would certainly be nicer with that 7th high slot for another AC/Arty.
Kovid Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.02.03 09:30:00 - [53]
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.03 10:24:00 - [54] Originally by: TimGascoigne I am happily the first to say in any crowd that minmatar battleships are broken. However these changes will do nothing to help them. What you need to do is creativity a role for then not new module. After 2 1/2 years in the game I'm not really sure what the role of the tempist was ever meant to be....... Currently the typhoon is a reasonably good NPCing ship and close range BS. However it's split weapons mean that there is no best optimal range for it and alternatives like the Armageddon and Domi have better tank, DPS and alpha. The tempist is good at close range combat with artillery and siege missile launchs . However it is less useful at sniping then a mealstrom and utterly terrible in comparison to other ship in large fleets. The Maelstrom has a high alpha and that's where it needs to excel. Unfortunately it was made as a minmatar mission running ship. At which it is utterly terrible and cannot hit NPCs to justify undocking. This ship is best used as a fleet sniper however it becomes uncompetitive at any reasonable sniping range as its alpha is pathetically small in the shot optimal and long falloff. What actually needs to change: 1. Auto cannons - drastically. I can't remember the last time I saw an AC fit BS for PvE or PvP. Both terrible range and terrible tracking = no hits. 2. Theres no sniper BS. This race needs a sniping battleship that does large alpha traded with low DPS. However this is not in the game at the moment because the alpha cannot reach the target. atm not the tempist nor the mealstrom can be effectively manipulated into this role. In the op I try to define the tempests role as anti support skirmisher/sniper or weapons platform similar to the muninn. If you believe AC's are lacking check out this thread
Sensor Boosting	Posted - 2009.02.03 11:28:00 - [55] Originally by: Pattern Clarc In the op I try to define the tempests role as anti support skirmisher/sniper or weapons platform similar to the muninn. If you believe AC's are lacking check out this thread not gonna happen...... no-one wants to get in a battleship just to shoot support.....thats what smaller ships are for. tempest needs to stay how it is u can change the maelstrom if u want....but if u change the shield boost bonus, the minmatar mission runners are gonna hate you
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.03 11:34:00 - [56] Originally by: Sensor Boosting Originally by: Pattern Clarc In the op I try to define the tempests role as anti support skirmisher/sniper or weapons platform similar to the muninn. If you believe AC's are lacking check out this thread not gonna happen...... no-one wants to get in a battleship just to shoot support.....thats what smaller ships are for. tempest needs to stay how it is u can change the maelstrom if u want....but if u change the shield boost bonus, the minmatar mission runners are gonna hate you Believe it or not, but there are styles of game play that exist right now that you may be completely unaccustomed to, but that's ok. I'm pretty sure they'd be happy with the passive tanking a/c sponge of doom that 25% to base shields would give.
Sensor Boosting	Posted - 2009.02.03 11:41:00 - [57] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Sensor Boosting Originally by: Pattern Clarc In the op I try to define the tempests role as anti support skirmisher/sniper or weapons platform similar to the muninn. If you believe AC's are lacking check out this thread not gonna happen...... no-one wants to get in a battleship just to shoot support.....thats what smaller ships are for. tempest needs to stay how it is u can change the maelstrom if u want....but if u change the shield boost bonus, the minmatar mission runners are gonna hate you Believe it or not, but there are styles of game play that exist right now that you may be completely unaccustomed to, but that's ok. I'm pretty sure they'd be happy with the passive tanking a/c sponge of doom that 25% to base shields would give. ahh so just cos u want to use a ship for sniping, you want everyone to? i get you now
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.03 11:51:00 - [58] Originally by: Sensor Boosting Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Sensor Boosting Originally by: Pattern Clarc In the op I try to define the tempests role as anti support skirmisher/sniper or weapons platform similar to the muninn. If you believe AC's are lacking check out this thread not gonna happen...... no-one wants to get in a battleship just to shoot support.....thats what smaller ships are for. tempest needs to stay how it is u can change the maelstrom if u want....but if u change the shield boost bonus, the minmatar mission runners are gonna hate you Believe it or not, but there are styles of game play that exist right now that you may be completely unaccustomed to, but that's ok. I'm pretty sure they'd be happy with the passive tanking a/c sponge of doom that 25% to base shields would give. ahh so just cos u want to use a ship for sniping, you want everyone to? i get you now Personally? I have 3 races battleship to lvl 5 and if I really wanted my favourite ship to be boosted, i'd be asking the CCP for a 7th low to the Hyperion. There's an issue with the Typhoon/Tempest/Mealstrom and there roles and this is the best solution I can come up with without screwing up balance. Now are you done trolling this thread yet? ____ My Blog Is Awesome
Sensor Boosting	Posted - 2009.02.03 11:58:00 - [59] Quote: Personally? I have 3 races battleship to lvl 5? congrats. so do quite a few people..... typhoon - turret/missile/drone gank ship .... can fit a nice armor tank on it tempest - turret gank ship/sniper , can fit decent plate setup on maelstrom - mission runner/sniper/close gank sorry the only ship role that needs changing is the maelstrom to be more of a sniper rather than a close ganker.
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.03 12:16:00 - [60] Originally by: Sensor Boosting Quote: Personally? I have 3 races battleship to lvl 5? congrats. so do quite a few people..... typhoon - turret/missile/drone gank ship .... can fit a nice armor tank on it tempest - turret gank ship/sniper , can fit decent plate setup on maelstrom - mission runner/sniper/close gank sorry the only ship role that needs changing is the maelstrom to be more of a sniper rather than a close ganker. I think you've just proved my point. The tempest has roles which overlap with each of it's racial peers. In every case, it's a poorer alternative to them, decent plate setup? With 6 lows? Ganking with turrets? Who cares when the phoon does the most dps of any bs in the game, and the mealstrom has more turrets and a better active tank. The tempest is pig in the middle i'm sorry to say, with the tracking bonus, and a new tier of artillery, I ope to provide a clear distinction between it and the maelstrom for sniping with little changing as far as close quarters is concerned.

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