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In the feature storm, no mention of the Local-Chat-Intel-Gathering issue.

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Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 681	Posted - 2012.04.22 18:56:00 - [61] - Quote Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote: Dont like the way high sec is? Dont like local? Go live in WH problem solved yeah but then I have to scan and stuff, plus the guys living there know how to use d-scan i just want to right-click set destination to a 0.0 system, warp to belt and kill a hulk screw you nullbear for crapping on my dreams
Asuri Kinnes Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 348	Posted - 2012.04.22 20:42:00 - [62] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Asuri Kinnes wrote: The reason "no local intel" works in W-space is that there are no static routes. Bookmarks become useless in 16 to 36 hours (usually much less). No local chat/intel + Stationary gates = ? On the plus side, you do get used to being more aware of your surroundings and using d-scan... I like that Worm Holes are different, i would (personally) like to keep them different... If you want a good idea of how nullsec would be with delayed local, let's just remove the cynojamming from wh-space and put in wormhole stabilizers. From the threads I've read in Assembly Hall and Jita Park, wormhole residents think it would be really good for w-space. Fact of the matter is, other then delayed local, every other aspect of w-space favours the defender compared to 0.0. And even then only 5% of players choose to live there. I can't imagine how anyone could imagine that a version of delayed local with static routes, far less reward and cyno hot drops would do any better. Ummmmmm - totally missed. I wasn't advocating removing local in Null (or anywhere else for that matter). I was simply saying why no local (or delayed local) works in WH's. Also forgot about not being able to cyno - that is also a big one. So no, I wasn't advocating removing local, just pointing out why it (delayed loca) wouldn't work in null/low sec. And I want WH's to stay entirely different from the rest of space (no sov war, no upgrades, no building anything related to Sov, no moon minerals, etc). Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 6230	Posted - 2012.04.22 20:49:00 - [63] - Quote Local being removed as a source of intel is part of the :5-year-plan: for null. Stay tuned. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants.
Sigurd Sig Hansen Hedion University Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2012.04.22 20:51:00 - [64] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote: Dont like the way high sec is? Dont like local? Go live in WH problem solved yeah but then I have to scan and stuff, plus the guys living there know how to use d-scan i just want to right-click set destination to a 0.0 system, warp to belt and kill a hulk screw you nullbear for crapping on my dreams lol I hate null I hate when someone comes in system you dont know you have to warp to the station like cockroaches when the lights are switched on Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Cyprus Black Novatech Armada En Garde 199	Posted - 2012.04.22 21:01:00 - [65] - Quote That "strong interest in no local" came from a very small handful of players and their army of alts. CCP generally doesn't bow to the wims of a tiny minority and their terribad ideas, regardless how loud they an their alts cry. You wouldn't complain about needles when you get a tattoo. So why would you complain about PvP when you play EVE?
Camios Minmatar Bread Corporation 95	Posted - 2012.04.22 22:54:00 - [66] - Quote Cyprus Black wrote: That "strong interest in no local" came from a very small handful of players and their army of alts. CCP generally doesn't bow to the wims of a tiny minority and their terribad ideas, regardless how loud they an their alts cry. You're wrong. There was general consensus within CCP that local chat as an intel tool is an issue. Period. The point now is, what position is it in the backlog?
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 345	Posted - 2012.04.23 03:08:00 - [67] - Quote Marlona Sky wrote: Cearain wrote: You are definitely correct that losing local will decrease the frequency of good pvp fights in eve. We agree there. I just think they should look for ways to increase the amount of action per hour (although i am against arenas). But anyway how many fewer good fights do you want? Where did I say that losing local will decrease the frequency of good fights in eve?? Here is the simple fact about local: It requires far less time and effort to avoid conflict due to the local channel than it takes an aggressor to find and successfully engage someone using local channel. good fights don't often happen when one side is trying ot gtfo and the other side just happens to catch them before they can get out. Your comments about match button made it seem you agreed with the obvious point that local help finding good fights. But now I see you consider only situations where only one side wants a fight. Those generally aren't good fights. Again if you only see pvp in eve as ganks then yeah removing local will help pvp - until all the pvers move out of low and null sec. In the long run it will be like wormholes - where pvp is much less frequent. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Duvida The Scope Gallente Federation 62	Posted - 2012.04.23 03:26:00 - [68] - Quote Camios wrote: Cyprus Black wrote: That "strong interest in no local" came from a very small handful of players and their army of alts. CCP generally doesn't bow to the wims of a tiny minority and their terribad ideas, regardless how loud they an their alts cry. You're wrong. There was general consensus within CCP that local chat as an intel tool is an issue. Period. The point now is, what position is it in the backlog? Is there something I could read from Fanfest or something about it? Also, how do the wormhole folks feel about no local? Good? Mostly Good? Not-so-good? "Wormhole dwellers" ... I suppose Wormbears wouldn't be a better term.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 441	Posted - 2012.04.23 03:46:00 - [69] - Quote Cearain wrote: Again if you only see pvp in eve as ganks then yeah removing local will help pvp - until all the pvers move out of low and null sec. In the long run it will be like wormholes - where pvp is much less frequent. In that case, heh, highsec has some amazing pvp. Very little blobbing, either, no caps and above. In fact, it's all about the destroyers and T3 battlecruisers ~ Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY
Soldarius United Highsec Front The 99 Percent 207	Posted - 2012.04.23 03:47:00 - [70] - Quote Aiwha wrote: Yes, we all want to bumble around nullsec blind and unnable to find fights. Not being able to pvp will make us all very very happy. True story. Dude, you suck. True story. I was in peek-a-boo bombers with Chessur. ** was fun as hell. There was no need for local. No one spoke in local because they didn't want to let you know they were there. All you had to do was putter around the system and hit dscan a couple times, something any decent scout in nul does anyway. Local is not required to find fights. If the wormhole system is empty, you just scan down another and go there. In nul, if the system is empty, you jump through a gate. The only difference between nul and w-space is that with delayed local you have to actually make a small effort to gather the intel or probe out another wormhole. Hell, get rid of instant local and I dare say you'll find more fights. Those ratting Tengus won't know to cloak up until they either see you on dscan or overview. And there is nothing stopping you from announcing yourself in local to ask for fights. I swear, anyone that can't find a fight without local is a lazy ** that should biomass. "How do you kill that which has no life?"

Asuri Kinnes Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 349	Posted - 2012.04.23 13:46:00 - [71] - Quote Duvida wrote: Is there something I could read from Fanfest or something about it? Also, how do the wormhole folks feel about no local? Good? Mostly Good? Not-so-good? "Wormhole dwellers" ... I suppose Wormbears wouldn't be a better term. A) WH dwellers are generally loving no local. B) You are correct, "Wormbears" would not be a better term... Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Dragon Outlaw Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 74	Posted - 2012.04.23 15:13:00 - [72] - Quote CCP should just make the game as realistic as anyone would expect from a sci-fi universe. If local would not have existed since Eve's beginning, nobody would talk about it. Nobody would even want it. Same thing applies with travelling through gates, shooting through asteroids/structures and the list could go on and on. Keep the game hard but ffs make it REAListic!
Zora'e Nasty Pope 2	Posted - 2012.04.23 15:22:00 - [73] - Quote Local should be Immediate in High Sec, Delayed in low sec (or until someone talks). Non existent in null sec/wh's (until someone talks). Reasoning: In high sec, Concord is aware of where everyone is through their superior equipment and ship ident boxes. In low, Concord does not patrol or enforce the space lanes but each gate and station periodically sends out an updated "system status" squak to all ships in system that identifies ships that have jumped into the system or become active in a station (player logs on) However, ships that log into the system in space are NOT detected by gates and stations and therefor are not broadcast until the person in the ships talks, jumps or docks. In null/wh's there is no local as this is lawless space and only the most rudimentary gates and operations software are provided for each system Ships are not identified, players are only identified if they speak in local and this identification only remains for a cpl hours or so. An option for null might include a sov based deep space scanning array that cycles every few minutes and will detect all but cloaked ships and then broadcast the number (and only the number) of detected ships "in local" to all ships in the system. Just my thoughts on it and a possible way local could be worked by ccp. In EVE Online...-á-áA Friend will calm you down when you are angry after getting Ganked.., but a Best Friend will fly along beside you commanding a Strike Group singing "Someones Gonna Get It!!!".-á ~Zora'e
Welsige Amok. Goonswarm Federation 49	Posted - 2012.04.23 16:12:00 - [74] - Quote Aiwha wrote: Yes, we all want to bumble around nullsec blind and unnable to find fights. Not being able to pvp will make us all very very happy. True story. QFT ~ 10.058 ~ Free The Mittani
Marlona Sky Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies. 809	Posted - 2012.04.23 16:23:00 - [75] - Quote Like I have said many times before and what has been mentioned in this thread. If the local channel had never been a mechanic when EVE was released years ago and then someone came up with the idea to put it into the game like it is now, it would by far be the biggest, raging threadnought in MMO history due to how dumb of a change it would be. Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner!
Welsige Amok. Goonswarm Federation 49	Posted - 2012.04.23 16:34:00 - [76] - Quote I dont really care either way. But given a choice, I would let it as it is. Even if I would benefit more of its absence. The proposed change favours much the hunter, and gimps the prey. In the end, we all need the carebears, they are part of our ecosystem. Yes there's ways around it, this and that and whatever is already said, but in the end the game will be more cumbersome for the people already doing combersome tasks. This solution benefits the hunters regarding getting preys in a casual roam, but I believe it will as well make the universe more stale and less dinamic thinking about the big picture. With intel comming harder, fleet movements will also be fewer and slower. ~ 10.058 ~ Free The Mittani
Dragon Outlaw Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 75	Posted - 2012.04.23 17:11:00 - [77] - Quote Welsige wrote: I dont really care either way. But given a choice, I would let it as it is. Even if I would benefit more of its absence. The proposed change favours much the hunter, and gimps the prey. In the end, we all need the carebears, they are part of our ecosystem. Yes there's ways around it, this and that and whatever is already said, but in the end the game will be more cumbersome for the people already doing combersome tasks. This solution benefits the hunters regarding getting preys in a casual roam, but I believe it will as well make the universe more stale and less dinamic thinking about the big picture. With intel comming harder, fleet movements will also be fewer and slower. A Goon afraid of hunters? Are you worried of high sec carebears being hunted or are you refering to nullbears?
Kengutsi Akira Ministry of War Amarr Empire 432	Posted - 2012.04.23 17:18:00 - [78] - Quote Camios wrote: Cyprus Black wrote: That "strong interest in no local" came from a very small handful of players and their army of alts. CCP generally doesn't bow to the wims of a tiny minority and their terribad ideas, regardless how loud they an their alts cry. You're wrong. There was general consensus within CCP that local chat as an intel tool is an issue. Period. The point now is, what position is it in the backlog? links? Id l;ike to read that for myself instead of taking your word for it https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1109909#post1109909 My stance on WiS (updated)
hired goon Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix 136	Posted - 2012.04.23 17:49:00 - [79] - Quote I love wormholes. They are where the elite of the elite go, to "finish" eve - the end game where we go to retire in a quiet but chaotic fire of small-gang warfare and exciting unknowns. Everyone who comes to live in a wormhole is simply better than those who choose not to - whether pvper or 'nullbear'. It is "pure" Eve, how the game was meant to be; and all who do not attend are simply hypocrites. The lack of local is just the icing on a cake that's frickin' made of icing as far as I'm concerned. Of course I am in favour of rolling it out over the entire universe, and arguments that it somehow "wouldn't work" seem unfounded and newly concocted by desperate, lazy, risk-averse cowards. Along with TiDi fixing lag, and this new "ECM Epic Burst" module that breaks the "primary target powerball" type gameplay; removal of local chat from null-sec would definitely be the final "fix" required to tempt me back to 0.0 warfare. However, I am hesitant to lose what is "special" about wh space. I do feel like a superior being living out here, away from the stupid whiny concerns of suicide ganks in hi-sec or pos-bashing in null. If local was removed from the game, the rest of you idiots being able to handle it okay would dampen my godly self-image - and I'm just enjoying that too much atm.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 685	Posted - 2012.04.23 18:32:00 - [80] - Quote hired goon wrote: I love wormholes. They are where the elite of the elite go, to "finish" eve . lol

Marlona Sky Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies. 811	Posted - 2012.04.23 18:36:00 - [81] - Quote hired goon - You still have that mass limitation and connections to random unknowns which is more than enough to keep wormhole space special enough. Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner!
Rivur'Tam the united Negative Ten. 25	Posted - 2012.04.23 19:49:00 - [82] - Quote Copine Callmeknau wrote: Siva Surya Kshatriya wrote: Marlona Sky wrote: Many years ago the local channel stopped working. It showed no one except the number of pilots in that system. For that one day the game had changed. Real scouts were sent out to gather information and the excitement of not knowing what was out there was amazing. Then CCP changed it back to what you have now. An instant, effort free, super intel gathering device. So lame. This. Or you could make local delayed, with the delay before your name pops up dependent on the sig radius of your ship - for example, a Rifter with a tiny sig radius might take 1.5 minutes to show up, whereas a BS would show ip in like 20 seconds (all arbitrary numbers, but you get the idea). This would make small, light scouts a lot more useful and make gangs of raiding frigs far more viable, as they would have a stealth advantage when compared to heavier ships. Definitely the best solution. This way nobody is 'blinded' as it was put, but local is also no longer the best scouting tool players have. terrible idea local is fine the way it is why waste time and effort on something that is not broken. there is no local in wh space go hang about in there problem solved. If you take away local there will be no ratters there for you to gank anyway then you would just whine about and that. There needs to be some way to uncloak ships, aoe uncloaker would be epic its badly needed in this game. I live in lowsec, i spent long periods in both null and wh space and i like lowsec better so if they ruined teh game by delaying it or whatever it would effect me becuase people would quit and there would be less for me to kill so it would hurt y game in a roundabout way. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire ^^ my sig was awesome that naugty spitfire stole it for himself true story United Recruitment Director.
Welsige Amok. Goonswarm Federation 49	Posted - 2012.04.23 20:48:00 - [83] - Quote Dragon Outlaw wrote: A Goon afraid of hunters? Are you worried of high sec carebears being hunted or are you refering to nullbears? As I said, I would probably benefit from this change. But I imagine people that spend time mining will have a hard time with increased risks for their 'fun' activity. It would be a pitty to have decreased industralist activity in null sec, imo. Its not because I play on the other court that i am oblivious to the pains of others. Eve is a big playground, and i imagine it will be a pain to get fights without intel. Its already a pain as it is, with "real time" intel. Delayed intel has no value. ~ 10.058 ~ Free The Mittani
Marlona Sky Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies. 813	Posted - 2012.04.23 22:43:00 - [84] - Quote Good intel is a double edged sword. You can argue it causes more fights to happen or less fights to happen. Intel is so effort free and fast that you can't undock and move more than two systems without your name, alliance you are in, ship types and numbers being blasted over intel channels for five regions. All because someone had saw you in local. Plenty of time to form a blob to, well blob your three man t1 cruiser fleet or simply warp off to a pos/station/cloak to avoid any conflict. Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner!
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 685	Posted - 2012.04.23 22:56:00 - [85] - Quote Marlona Sky wrote: Good intel is a double edged sword. You can argue it causes more fights to happen or less fights to happen. You can't argue that delayed local causes more fights to happen when CCP Diagoras' stats have w-space pvp activity trailing behind everywhere except highsec. What you need to accept that that the pve activity that you wish to prey on needs an incentive to actually do in nullsec instead of in highsec, not some sort of additional hurdle added.
Dragon Outlaw Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 77	Posted - 2012.04.23 23:28:00 - [86] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Marlona Sky wrote: Good intel is a double edged sword. You can argue it causes more fights to happen or less fights to happen. You can't argue that delayed local causes more fights to happen when CCP Diagoras' stats have w-space pvp activity trailing behind everywhere except highsec. Of course there is gona be less PvP in WHs. You need to scan them down 1st.
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 51	Posted - 2012.04.24 00:14:00 - [87] - Quote What if local stopped showing standings/color tags but constellation would? Makes defending your systems/region more efficient. Makes the sole/lone ratter easier to catch in highly populated systems. Makes the solo/small gangs harder to detect Think about it.
Benny Ohu The Lazy Dragoons True Apathy 56	Posted - 2012.04.24 03:59:00 - [88] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: You can't argue that delayed local causes more fights to happen when CCP Diagoras' stats have w-space pvp activity trailing behind everywhere except highsec. It's impossible to say whether this is a causual relationship
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 449	Posted - 2012.04.24 04:12:00 - [89] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: You can't argue that delayed local causes more fights to happen when CCP Diagoras' stats have w-space pvp activity trailing behind everywhere except highsec. It's impossible to say whether this is a causual relationship Yep, the lack of pvp actually leads to the game not updating its local, thus less pvp causes delayed local, but delayed local actually increased pvp. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY
Zagdul Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 539	Posted - 2012.04.24 04:15:00 - [90] - Quote No local = more difficult to find PVP. Compromise: Pilots do not show up in local until they decloak. It's not rocket surgery.



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