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Constructive thread- What happened to Bob?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Technix Gallente DAB	Posted - 2009.02.05 14:58:00 - [211] Originally by: Nguyen VanPhuoc If the character was sold then it'd need to be via the Character Bazaar and somehow I'd think BoB might notice one of their directors selling the account [/list] Quote: Part of the Rules for selling a toon require you to have the said toon in a NPC corp. I think. Seems it will go one way or the other.
Mestoth Minmatar Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.05 15:03:00 - [212] Edited by: Mestoth on 05/02/2009 15:04:37 Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras I am not pro BoB, but from what mittani said "so I logged on his account..." This is CLEAR violation of EULA: part 2.B You may not obtain, attempt to obtain, use or attempt to use the password of anyone else. So dont get your hope too high Goons ... I would not be impress if CCP reset the alliance and SOV and Ban Mittani in the process for EULA violation If CCP do act , they will probably restore all sov to level they were before said Violation of EULA, but Any asset loss will probably not be refund from the same EULA part 2.B "You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Password and for any damage, harm, lost or deleted characters, etc. resulting from your disclosure, or allowing the disclosure, of any Password, or from use by any person of your Password." Where the valid interpretation of "any damage" is damage done to the Account itself (its caracter and the caracter asset) not the damage done BY the caracter. My .02 isk Taking your EXACT quote "You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Password and for any damage, harm, lost or deleted characters, etc. resulting from your disclosure, or allowing the disclosure, of any Password, or from use by any person of your Password. Bolded the RELEVANT bits. Assuming the goons involved DID violate the TOS, the SECOND part of your quote from the EULA indemnifies CCP from having to do anything. At WORST, you would get banned for violating the first part of 2.B, however the results from any violation (or violations) are CLEARLY shown it also says "any damange", it doesnt say "any damage to that person, their account and their pet monkey"...any damage MEANS any damage, you disband an alliance, poor you, You loose a titan...poor you Not trying to start a flame war, but you cant choose to take the bits that make your argument and ignore the bits that counter it!. And yes, state the obvious, im in goonfleet. Seeing BoB go down like this does tickle me a bit, not going to deny it, but arguing about whether bob ever metagamed and OMG goon is teh evil (or teh win) is pointless, CCP will make a judgment, and we will ALL live with it one way or the other, no matter how many we add to posts
Zemi Dahut Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.05 15:04:00 - [213] Originally by: Garia666 Originally by: Garia666 Originally by: Conlin This will make Goons look even more pathetic than they already are , . hehehe as i tought that was never possible.. anyway these things always backfire.. its an game and shouldnt make things personal. but now they have every reason to do so.. I realize you're a stupid pubbie with the attention span of a gnat but SirMolle already declared that this is as personal as it gets, two and a half years ago.
Daoi Sith Gallente Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2009.02.05 15:35:00 - [214] ITT thread lots whinging about metagaming with no proof a director disbanding the alliance is not metagaming spying, treachery, stealing assets and being a turncoat is not metagaming. discussing EvE outside of EvE in a forum does not constitute metagaming. there is no "disband alliance" button on the EvE website it was done IN GAME
Imutep Amarr Seven.	Posted - 2009.02.05 16:12:00 - [215] rofl, this game is so full of people spouting crap and short memories... BoB were king of the metagaming style of play and probably introduced most of it. But then people learnt, adapted to compete on the same level to survive and be better than them at it to win. What this guy did was an absolute classic but cheating?? Don't talk out of your collective bob buttkissing rears. This was espionage on speed, and deserves a well done. In some way I feel for some of the bobbits, because they haven't lost this war, the right to win or lose on the battlefield has likely been removed for them. But one way or another the playground bully always gets his come uppance :p
zzCoins Caldari Decorum Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.02.05 16:28:00 - [216] Edited by: zzCoins on 05/02/2009 16:28:06 Originally by: Aegis Osiris Originally by: Admiral Feelgood in the mp3 he is talking about getting forum logins not ingame logins, he later says that the character is doing all the in game things himself Seems clear in listening to it he means the logins for the game. The forum rules probably prohibit users impersonating other users, so using someone elses forum login is illegal. Mittens should be banned and BoB restored
Daoi Sith Gallente Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2009.02.05 16:51:00 - [217] Originally by: zzCoins Edited by: zzCoins on 05/02/2009 16:28:06 Originally by: Aegis Osiris Originally by: Admiral Feelgood in the mp3 he is talking about getting forum logins not ingame logins, he later says that the character is doing all the in game things himself Seems clear in listening to it he means the logins for the game. The forum rules probably prohibit users impersonating other users, so using someone elses forum login is illegal. Mittens should be banned and BoB restored how does CCP have rules over a third party forum ? they are not talking about the eve forums in the mp3.
Orree Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.05 16:53:00 - [218] Originally by: Ace Frehley Hurray whole eve is now blue to each other!! Now NC reached their goal, Mine in peacefull \o/ LOL...I love that out of all the things that could possibly be said about this situation (none of it having anything to do with the "NC"), your big choice is to say "quack quack NC quack quack." Awesome, man. Thanks for a bit of comic relief. "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli
Xiao Tek Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.02.05 16:53:00 - [219] I interpreted it as being about the BOB forums, not the eve-o forums. Either way prepare for interesting times.
Quigon Jimm Caldari First Flying Wing Inc Primary.	Posted - 2009.02.05 16:54:00 - [220] sniffs can anyone else smell win-sauce round here?
Apocalisys Amarr Caldari Deep Space Ventures Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.05 16:59:00 - [221] Originally by: zzCoins Edited by: zzCoins on 05/02/2009 16:28:06 Originally by: Aegis Osiris Originally by: Admiral Feelgood in the mp3 he is talking about getting forum logins not ingame logins, he later says that the character is doing all the in game things himself Seems clear in listening to it he means the logins for the game. The forum rules probably prohibit users impersonating other users, so using someone elses forum login is illegal. Mittens should be banned and BoB restored You should read this forum and listen the MP3 AGAIN, the forum that the recorded TS is talking about is THE BOB FORUM, not EVE GAME or EVE FORUM. I'm neutral and hostile for every one here, but i can see Goonswarm did a hell of the job and defeat his enemy with one of the old weapons in this world and the real one, a SPY. And for those who think CCP will save your BOB ass cuz the account got hacked, KEEP DREAMING, the EULA say account hack = ban and also say damage done is your problem and will not restore anything. So i'm glad to post in this epic topic about this epic BOB fall in this epic day for EVE Online. God Speed!!! Apocalisys - CDSV - ARCANE ALLIANCE (INTEL) Joscelynn - CDSV - ARCANE AALIANCE (Combat Pilot)
Shane Darman Gallente Anatolian Diligentia Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.02.05 17:08:00 - [222] its a bit contradicting after everyone is saying how dishonorable this is when AAA have been paying GS Directors to post chat logs, forum posts and to offline Poses, to have a rebuttal by Goonswarm this way lol. better part yet though, GS didn't even have to pay Haargoth =). Lets just wait for when Mittani/Haargoth post the archived BoB n BCN Forums.
RocoTheCircusMonkey Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.05 17:10:00 - [223] This was a disgruntled BoB director that went rogue, plain and simple. There will be no rollback.
Aya Gallente coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.02.05 17:11:00 - [224] Edited by: Aya on 05/02/2009 17:11:20 Originally by: RocoTheCircusMonkey This was a disgruntled BoB director that went rogue, plain and simple. There will be no rollback. You know that for sure?? Or your hit l er-esque leader tell you that?
PlanetXMail Amarr Imperium Forces Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.02.05 17:15:00 - [225] Right now it appears to be legit.... but in the future there CLEARLY needs to be changes made to the game mechanics for corporate espionage and disbaning of dozens of corps and losing ALL sov literally after one hour of DT (downtime).. It's ridiculiously unrealistic. Think about ONE person being able to disband the UK or USA, just ONE person? This simply would not be possible. EVE and CCP needs to rethink how this could happen. I think no less than 2 accounts (therefore 2 spies) need to be in agreement to do major actions like disbanding corps and mismantling a HUGE EVE alliance. I am not defending BoB, but rather EVE itself. Sure, spies are in Real Life, sure stuff happens. But, to dismantle an entire super power in EVE with a few clicks of a mouse button, and have the SOV change overnight is simply unrealistic. I am sure we will see some changes made to EVE mechanics in regards to how all this happened. (One player can do all this?) Unrealistic at best.
rValdez5987 Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2009.02.05 17:22:00 - [226] Originally by: Nguyen VanPhuoc Edited by: Nguyen VanPhuoc on 05/02/2009 15:06:04 Edited by: Nguyen VanPhuoc on 05/02/2009 15:04:36 Lets assume the following: Haargoth's account wasn't hacked. I cant see anyone being dumb enough to think they could get away with disbanding BoB (lol) using a hacked account. So to me it comes down to this. Who owns the Haargoth character/account and how? If the account was owned by Mittani since it's creation and he successfully infiltrated BoB then there is no comeback for BoB. If Haargoth owns the character/account still and has switched sides to Goons then there is no comeback for BoB (Mittani has spoken for Haargoth on the forums and in the MP3 explanation so it's possible). If the Haargoth account was sold to Mittani then that's an EULA violation, one which BoB could base a petition around. If the character was sold then it'd need to be via the Character Bazaar and somehow I'd think BoB might notice one of their directors selling the account I wonder which it will be :) Edited to change option 2 after reading some more. characters sold in the sell orders area are REQUIRED to be in a npc corp at the time of sale. Anything else is a violation of the rules.
KalamMek Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.05 17:23:00 - [227] Originally by: Aya You know that for sure?? Or your hit l er-esque leader tell you that? My CEO MEIN FUHRER! Actually he's not, but hey might as well play along. Thank you Godwin's Law for predicting Aya's wonderful post.
vahu shamy Gallente SRBI Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.02.05 17:30:00 - [228] What BOB?
Delc Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.05 17:33:00 - [229] Why can't people just face the fact that one member or spy, defecting or not, sat in the alliance working up the food chain to totally dominate BOB. We all know there are two sides to this, one's who hate BOB and one's that follow. PICK ONE!
Leif Lun Minmatar Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2009.02.05 17:54:00 - [230] Originally by: PlanetXMail ...to dismantle an entire super power in EVE with a few clicks of a mouse button, and have the SOV change overnight is simply unrealistic. I am sure we will see some changes made to EVE mechanics in regards to how all this happened. (One player can do all this?) Unrealistic at best. May I suggest that it is not unrealistic? Consider, for example, the fall of the Incas. I suspect you are correct about changes in game mechanics, but I find this to be an unique and fascinating episode.
Daoi Sith Gallente Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2009.02.05 17:58:00 - [231] Originally by: PlanetXMail Right now it appears to be legit.... but in the future there CLEARLY needs to be changes made to the game mechanics for corporate espionage and disbaning of dozens of corps and losing ALL sov literally after one hour of DT (downtime).. It's ridiculiously unrealistic. Think about ONE person being able to disband the UK or USA, just ONE person? This simply would not be possible. EVE and CCP needs to rethink how this could happen. I think no less than 2 accounts (therefore 2 spies) need to be in agreement to do major actions like disbanding corps and mismantling a HUGE EVE alliance. I am not defending BoB, but rather EVE itself. Sure, spies are in Real Life, sure stuff happens. But, to dismantle an entire super power in EVE with a few clicks of a mouse button, and have the SOV change overnight is simply unrealistic. I am sure we will see some changes made to EVE mechanics in regards to how all this happened. (One player can do all this?) Unrealistic at best. well, the eve page on alliances does make it quite clear that those protections ARE NOT in place and to be VERY careful. i dont suppose BoB could be bothered to have read it ? Alliances "The limitation to a single executor simplifies the operation of the Alliance system, however it also places a great deal of responsibility on the member corporations to oversee the actions of the executor. At present there is no formal alliance-wide voting system on Alliance actions and policies in place, and while this is in development the use of a single executor corporation offers a suitable workaround when combined with the Declaration of Executor Support. It is up to individual members of the alliance to make informed decisions regarding actions and empower the executor to carry out the consensus. The amount of responsibility vested in the executor should also mean that executor corporations or individuals who act against the wishes of the alliance should be replaced as quickly as possible to ensure continued operation of the Alliance "
PlanetXMail Amarr Imperium Forces Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.02.05 18:11:00 - [232] Well as you have stated BY CPP, yes there is great concern if a bad apple appears as executing director. However, there was no 24 hr role change timer... as there is if I want to leave a Corporation I have roles in. Yet, someone is able to dismantle an entire Alliance, with NO 24 hour timer, and NO evemail or anything sent to the other participating directors, about the disbanding of their 4 year 'blood and sweat' alliance? Come on, whatever CCP warns us able, NEEDS a timer at least.
Breaky Uzumaki Caldari The Greater Moon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.05 18:20:00 - [233] Forums account != in-game account. Learn to listen. It's stated clearly.
Daoi Sith Gallente Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2009.02.05 18:24:00 - [234] Edited by: Daoi Sith on 05/02/2009 18:28:57 Originally by: PlanetXMail Well as you have stated BY CPP, yes there is great concern if a bad apple appears as executing director. However, there was no 24 hr role change timer... as there is if I want to leave a Corporation I have roles in. Yet, someone is able to dismantle an entire Alliance, with NO 24 hour timer, and NO evemail or anything sent to the other participating directors, about the disbanding of their 4 year 'blood and sweat' alliance? Come on, whatever CCP warns us able, NEEDS a timer at least. i totally agree it needs to change. but its been asked for before when it happened to other alliances. i ask, why now the outrage and not before ? it has happened before and CCP knew it could happen yet they didnt change the mechanic. the only conclusion is (based on that alliance link and what is currently implemented) is that they had it on their to do list but it was of so little importance it had not been done yet, despite the mechanic being there for years. now that BoB is affected, will it become important to them ? and is that fair to the previous alliances and corps that BoB infiltrated and used similar tactics on ? as with government officials, CCP should tread carefully here. public perception of preferential treatment (even if it doesnt exist) is a very bad thing for all players morale. when players feel that other players have an unfair advantage or access to resources they dont have, it poisons the trust relationship.
Cribba Sebiestor Minmatar Malik Enterprises Inc	Posted - 2009.02.05 18:36:00 - [235] Edited by: Cribba Sebiestor on 05/02/2009 18:36:34 Looking at all the evidence, it is a legit happening. As someone said it is absurd that one person can do it, and tbh i would have thought the only person that would be able to would be the CEO of the executor corp. Otherwise this thing as has been said will happen every time a director in an Alliance has to sweep out the hangers for the 3rd week in a row. But a word of caution, if this has happened to BOB then presumably there is nothing to stop it happening to Goonswarm either. People in glass houses should not fire neutron blasters.
mia mia Caldari Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.02.05 18:37:00 - [236] Edited by: mia mia on 05/02/2009 18:38:08 Originally by: PlanetXMail in the future there CLEARLY needs to be changes made to the game mechanics for corporate espionage and disbaning of dozens of corps and losing ALL sov literally after one hour of DT (downtime).. Why? Why can't I disband my alliance if I have the authority to do so? Why can't the CEO of the alliance executor corp kick corps from their alliance? I think this is a great game mechanic. Give me a good reason this shouldn't be allowed. As distasteful as the BoB director's action may seem to you, I haven't seen a good reason why this shouldn't be allowed. Originally by: PlanetXMail It's ridiculiously unrealistic. Says the guy playing an internet spaceship game.
David Grogan Gallente The Motley Crew	Posted - 2009.02.05 18:38:00 - [237] perhaps BoB disbanded due to the global recession lol Isk is worthless :P SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P
SMB's TheJoker Gallente Seven.	Posted - 2009.02.05 18:44:00 - [238] Originally by: PlanetXMail Well as you have stated BY CPP, yes there is great concern if a bad apple appears as executing director. However, there was no 24 hr role change timer... as there is if I want to leave a Corporation I have roles in. Yet, someone is able to dismantle an entire Alliance, with NO 24 hour timer, and NO evemail or anything sent to the other participating directors, about the disbanding of their 4 year 'blood and sweat' alliance? Come on, whatever CCP warns us able, NEEDS a timer at least. Dude, if this was some low/medium sized alliance in any diffrent part of Eve - none of your arguments would be raised here. All your whining serves no point anywhere. The only issue currently at hand is the fact if the director in question was on a hacked account or not. All the rest is mute. If BoB didnt teach their art of war so well to their foes, Goons would have never resolved to using a spy to slay a major blow at BoB. The only *****ing that goes around here is the fact that Goons did their spy-act ten times better from both pets like you ( yes, I was in NC when you guys screwed us for some cheap moons) or bobbits themself who cant accept the fact they got owned by their own tactics. Why off-line a cyno jammer like BoB did in the past when you can off-line the whole damn alliance...? Personnally I think its a excellent tactic - Goons only mistake would have been not to use such a great asset. I dont say I like Goons - personnally I dont think they are any diffrent from BoB besides their name and location. Goons are a bunch of selfish ego-trippers who in a near or distant future will suffer a fate similar to BoB cause of the size of their structure or collapse under an outside force. Its the eb and flow of any power state weather in real-life or a simulation. The only thing the powers-that-be can do is postpone it but sooner or later it happens none the less. Napoleon once said: fight an enemy too often and you'll teach him all your art of war. Bonaparte made that mistake - BoB thoughd appearently too highly of themselfs to heed his warning.
Aaron Kyoto Minmatar Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2009.02.05 18:47:00 - [239] BoB had a good run, and though i may mourn their passing - I say Kudos to Goon. It will certainly change the eternal stalemate that was in place. The collapse of such a massive alliance does deserve it's own cronicle.
Sakurako Kimino Caldari OffBeat Creations	Posted - 2009.02.05 18:48:00 - [240] i just woner who will goons go after next, now this has been done does this mean the end of blob warfare now to get ride of a sov holding alliance all you need is a spy and then to cose the the alliance sov gone move in take space very cheap and very easy. so will goons now close all the alliance in the gbc and will it then do the same to the nc making itself the most powerfull alliance in the game. will they then tell all alliance look pay us or else will do this to you. you know they can. i wounder if the holding corp of goons have any directors left in it as they must make sure this can't happen to them. also we now know that goon could never kill bob anyother way if they could they would have.

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