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Possible Answer to Ninja Salvaging?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.03.03 10:45:00 - [91] Originally by: Johli Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass It's not my fault this topic keeps gettin brought up in thread after thread. Guess alot of people dislike the current salvage mechanics. Aren't you the one bumping each topic with your theories about how CCP devs don't know anything about the game? Are you posting in the same threads? No the devs don't all know everything about thier game. Take fof missiles for instance. Real life versions can tell who's friendly and who's not. Eve versions go after the nearest target. Depending on who you ask at ccp, you'll get both answers as to how they work in game.
bettybettybettybetty	Posted - 2009.03.03 11:04:00 - [92] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Originally by: Johli Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass It's not my fault this topic keeps gettin brought up in thread after thread. Guess alot of people dislike the current salvage mechanics. Aren't you the one bumping each topic with your theories about how CCP devs don't know anything about the game? Are you posting in the same threads? No the devs don't all know everything about thier game. Take fof missiles for instance. Real life versions can tell who's friendly and who's not. Eve versions go after the nearest target. Depending on who you ask at ccp, you'll get both answers as to how they work in game. How does the fact that a missile works differently in-game than it does in real life (which is due to game balancing) mean that ccp don't know everything about their game?
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.03.03 13:01:00 - [93] Originally by: bettybettybettybetty Trolling alt pretends to fail at reading comprehension. Point remains, if you ask ccp how fof missiles work, in game, you'll get 2 different answers depending on who answers.
Wardo21	Posted - 2009.03.03 15:58:00 - [94] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Originally by: bettybettybettybetty Trolling alt pretends to fail at reading comprehension. Point remains, if you ask ccp how fof missiles work, in game, you'll get 2 different answers depending on who answers. Welcome to the complex world of EVE. No single Dev/GM can know all of the finite details for all of the game mechanics. Get used to it, it's only getting more and more complicated as new content comes out. You want to know how missiles work, ask a dev that programmed that chunk of code.
bettybettybettybetty	Posted - 2009.03.03 18:13:00 - [95] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Originally by: bettybettybettybetty Trolling alt pretends to fail at reading comprehension. Point remains, if you ask ccp how fof missiles work, in game, you'll get 2 different answers depending on who answers. The receptionist doesn't count.
Kiay Stryx Gallente Phoenix Mandate	Posted - 2009.03.03 19:30:00 - [96] Edited by: Kiay Stryx on 03/03/2009 19:33:22 This is getting old, fast. The pilot does not lay claim to the wreck. Simple. Its a wreck, its useless. In EVE there is even a profession that is skilled at salvaging these wrecks. They go about doing so while respecting the other pilots claim on the items within. That is the idea behind the system. But, this is EVE, people have the right to steal, loot, pillage, scam all they want, if they want. What ever your opinion, the original idea in the OP doesn't work. Think of something better. ~Stryx
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.03.03 19:33:00 - [97] A miner sits in a belt - mining lasers pointing at an asteroid. A second miner enters the belt and points his mining lasers at the same asteroid. Should the second miner have to request permission from the first miner? Should the second miner be flagged to the first miner for stealing his minerals? While some people will surely say "Yes, that would be funny" - most people will agree this isn't the way things are supposed to work. Neither miner owns the asteroid. Both miners have the same rights to use thier equipment and skills to turn the asteroid into minerals. Wrecks are like asteroids. The pilot who created the wreck has ownership over the loot in the wreck, but that pilot does not have ownership over the wreck itself. The wreck is like an asteroid. It belongs to noone, and anyone is able to use thier equipment and skills to "create" salvage from that rock, in the same way a miner "creates" minerals from an asteroid. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2009.03.03 19:41:00 - [98] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri A miner sits in a belt - mining lasers pointing at an asteroid. A second miner enters the belt and points his mining lasers at the same asteroid. Should the second miner have to request permission from the first miner? Should the second miner be flagged to the first miner for stealing his minerals? While some people will surely say "Yes, that would be funny" - most people will agree this isn't the way things are supposed to work. Neither miner owns the asteroid. Both miners have the same rights to use thier equipment and skills to turn the asteroid into minerals. Wrecks are like asteroids. The pilot who created the wreck has ownership over the loot in the wreck, but that pilot does not have ownership over the wreck itself. The wreck is like an asteroid. It belongs to noone, and anyone is able to use thier equipment and skills to "create" salvage from that rock, in the same way a miner "creates" minerals from an asteroid. I was just about to ask this same thing... Does the first Miner to jump into a belt automatically "tag" all the asteroids, so that any other Miner to enter would be flagged for mining them? As for the dreaded Ninja Salvagers, why not bring a friend to clean up behind you... or why not fit a tractor and salvager to your mission ship and clean up after yourself. While it's slow going, you can use a Destroyer with half guns and half salvage gear. Or I use a Domi, and just let the drones kill while I clean up. Last guy pops, I loot the wreck, and the salvage is collected by the time the drones are recalled. "No mess, no fuss" --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
R4d1o4ct1v3 Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.03.03 19:45:00 - [99] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Wrecks are like asteroids. The pilot who created the wreck has ownership over the loot in the wreck, but that pilot does not have ownership over the wreck itself. The wreck is like an asteroid. It belongs to noone, and anyone is able to use thier equipment and skills to "create" salvage from that rock, in the same way a miner "creates" minerals from an asteroid. I think everybody has pretty much gotten how it actually works. The discussion is about how we would like it to work. And no, wrecks are (or rather: should be) nothing like asteroids. Asteroids are spawned out of thin air, never requiring any effort on any pilots part to come into existence. It makes no sense that anybody could claim ownership over a piece of rock that just happened to spawn into existence. A wreck only exists because a pilot went through the trouble of blowing a ship up. It is not unreasonable for that pilot to at least be able to argue that he should be able to claim the resources generated by his efforts. This is what we are doing. Reciting over and over how this is currently working is not actually helpful in this discussion.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.03.03 20:36:00 - [100] Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 03/03/2009 20:37:51 I'm here! What did I miss? Name's Tchell, Empress of Dodixie. Hi, how ya doin'? Ninja Edit: Oh, right. I forgot to say it. I am the answer to Ninja Salvaging. Why? I just do it better. We're Recruiting!

Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.03.03 20:40:00 - [101] Originally by: R4d1o4ct1v3 A wreck only exists because a pilot went through the trouble of blowing a ship up. True, however, the loot is the 'prize' and the salvage is a 'byproduct'. Mission Runners have their prize, should they wish to take it, and anyone can take the byproduct, providing they are fast enough to do so. We're Recruiting!
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2009.03.03 20:46:00 - [102] Fakt is that the current mechanic is broken: - looting flags + salvaging does not flag To fix it i suppose one of the following ways: - looting + salvaging flags - looting + salvaging does not flag I know some argumented that salvage is like asteroids and no one owns it. So why should the killer own his loot? Its still more likely that this stuff was the property of the killed one instead of being the killers property. Or is it okay and well designed that the killers corp owns loot? If this is the truth than also the salvage should become his property because basically both sorts of items will be extracted from the same wreck. And people please stop arguing idiotic things like: "haha for this carebaears when they realize that flagging for salvaging brings death to them" - the truth is, that most ninja salvagers avoid giving their victims the ability to shoot back because they simply avoid touching their loot. It would be so easy to start blinking but most of them simply avoid this.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.03.03 20:54:00 - [103] Originally by: Kel Nissa Fakt is that the current mechanic is broken: - looting flags + salvaging does not flag To fix it i suppose one of the following ways: - looting + salvaging flags - looting + salvaging does not flag Truth be told, the items in the wreck should belong exclusively to the person who's ship was just blown up, his corpmates, etc., and not automatically become 'owned' by the person who blew the ship up. This is how it works when you shoot another player's ship currently, and that mechanic hasn't changed. So, why don't we just make the NPC Pirates' loot continue to be owned by them, and that would solve all of our problems? Oh, right. Then, Mission Runners would complain that the loot was being stolen without an aggression flag, and then they'd complain about that. Make NPC Pirates and their corpmates more 'intelligent' and make them loot/salvage the cans/wrecks, and then you'll be more even when you're talking about broken mechanics. Why, just because it's an NPC does a mechanic have to be different? We're Recruiting!
NightF0x Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists	Posted - 2009.03.03 23:20:00 - [104] Originally by: Kel Nissa I know some argumented that salvage is like asteroids and no one owns it. So why should the killer own his loot? Its still more likely that this stuff was the property of the killed one instead of being the killers property. Or is it okay and well designed that the killers corp owns loot? If this is the truth than also the salvage should become his property because basically both sorts of items will be extracted from the same wreck. If CCP goes the route that they have been talking about, there won't even been loot to worry about. Be blessed that you get what you get now because in the future you may not. I've already argued the points that CCP Dev's have already came in here and said, basically that nothing is going to change. ------------------------------------
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.03.04 00:06:00 - [105] Originally by: NightF0x I've already argued the points that CCP Dev's have already came in here and said, basically that nothing is going to change. And so we come full circle. It changed before, it'll change again as more and more people get fed up with the "new" old mechanic. Funny thing about combat. The winner gets the spoils. Unless the other guy can hide behind concord.
R4d1o4ct1v3 Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.03.04 00:49:00 - [106] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: R4d1o4ct1v3 A wreck only exists because a pilot went through the trouble of blowing a ship up. True, however, the loot is the 'prize' and the salvage is a 'byproduct'. Mission Runners have their prize, should they wish to take it, and anyone can take the byproduct, providing they are fast enough to do so. That's how it currently works, and I get the idea, but it's all just so messed up. All this salvaging business does is allow unskilled pilots to make a lot of ISK without having to do more than learn the basic scanning techniques. Absolutely no risk, but potentially huge rewards. Sound right to you? They could just as well drop cans filled with ISK at random moons. Meanwhile, the mission runners generating all those wrecks are having to watch random people run of with a huge part of the profit their work could be earning them, powerless to do anything about it. I mean, can you honestly blame us for being a bit annoyed, seeing the results of our work getting hauled away by some random freeloader? And yes, I know it's not really "mine", but it's there because of my work. I wish we could just choose not to leave wrecks. Then we could choose not to deal with this nonsense. Anyways, I'm done with this issue, finding something less annoying to do.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.03.04 01:05:00 - [107] Quote: basic scanning techniques. Absolutely no risk, but potentially huge rewards. Sound right to you? I'm going to start keeping a tally of missionrunners who whine about how easy ninjaing is. My ironymeter is overloading.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.03.04 01:15:00 - [108] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: basic scanning techniques. Absolutely no risk, but potentially huge rewards. Sound right to you? I'm going to start keeping a tally of missionrunners who whine about how easy ninjaing is. My ironymeter is overloading. Why do you care what mission runners do? If mission running is so easy, why don't you do it?
bettybettybettybetty	Posted - 2009.03.04 01:26:00 - [109] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: basic scanning techniques. Absolutely no risk, but potentially huge rewards. Sound right to you? I'm going to start keeping a tally of missionrunners who whine about how easy ninjaing is. My ironymeter is overloading. Why do you care what mission runners do? If mission running is so easy, why don't you do it? Because it's boring as sin.
Johli Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.04 01:53:00 - [110] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: basic scanning techniques. Absolutely no risk, but potentially huge rewards. Sound right to you? I'm going to start keeping a tally of missionrunners who whine about how easy ninjaing is. My ironymeter is overloading. Why do you care what mission runners do? If mission running is so easy, why don't you do it? Probably because you care so profusely what the salvage ninjas do. I'm sure if you spent the time missioning and earning all those LPs and bounties and sec status (depending) than whining on eve-o about a mechanic that works perfectly fine except for the few who continue to whine about anything that threatens your oh so precious and safely obtained isk. You first whine about how there is no risk involved, no pvp, etc. Then you decide to look at yourself: mission running, with it's pvp-less isk making, no risk involved, etc... sounding familiar. Then you start ranting about how CCP contradicts itself, how the devs don't agree with each other, etc. It was hilarious before, and now with the dev reply, it is FABULOUSLY hilarious. And ironic.

Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.04 09:54:00 - [111] Quote: All this salvaging business does is allow unskilled pilots to make a lot of ISK without having to do more than learn the basic scanning techniques. Absolutely no risk, but potentially huge rewards. Sound right to you? Like real bin rakers, we need to add the risk of disease. 1% chance on an unsuccesful salvage attempt that you get infected with some wierd space-borne virus that eats brains. Or makes you want to eat brains. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.03.04 12:57:00 - [112] I'll ask again: Why do any of you care that people run missions? What are they doing that hurts you? It's obvious why someone running a mission dislikes a ninja salvager.
Dotard Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.03.04 13:49:00 - [113] Sheez... There are things you can do about the ninja. Whining on the forums is just one of them.
Insa Rexion Minmatar M3T4LH34DZ	Posted - 2009.03.04 15:10:00 - [114] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: basic scanning techniques. Absolutely no risk, but potentially huge rewards. Sound right to you? I'm going to start keeping a tally of missionrunners who whine about how easy ninjaing is. My ironymeter is overloading. QFT...astro triangulation rank 5, astro pinpointing rank 5 and signal acquisition rank 8 anyone ? Not to mention actually having to learn how to scan properly once you have some skills trained. well mannered ah*
Insa Rexion Minmatar M3T4LH34DZ	Posted - 2009.03.04 15:13:00 - [115] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: All this salvaging business does is allow unskilled pilots to make a lot of ISK without having to do more than learn the basic scanning techniques. Absolutely no risk, but potentially huge rewards. Sound right to you? Like real bin rakers, we need to add the risk of disease. 1% chance on an unsuccesful salvage attempt that you get infected with some wierd space-borne virus that eats brains. Or makes you want to eat brains. Oh yeah...I like this, zombie salvagers well mannered ah*
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.04 15:46:00 - [116] mmm, ~~brains~~ wrecks --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.03.04 16:40:00 - [117] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass I'll ask again: Why do any of you care that people run missions? What are they doing that hurts you? Nothing actually hurts us. It's what they do that fuels us, or rather what fuels my ship. Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass It's obvious why someone running a mission dislikes a ninja salvager. I'm not content with "dislike". I'm looking for spitting, screaming, crying and unbridled hate. Feel free to post any or all of that in local, or even a PM, and I'm one happy Empress. We're Recruiting!
Irida Mershkov Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.03.04 16:50:00 - [118] There is no problem with ninjasalvaging, if you don't like it, stop running missions.
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2009.03.04 19:03:00 - [119] > There is no problem with ninjasalvaging, if you don't like it, stop running missions. The chance that there is a problem with ninjasalvaging is higher then the chance that there is no problem. Both chances are probably low, but in reality there is a tendency that ninjasalvaging is a problem.
Karentaki Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.03.04 19:12:00 - [120] Originally by: Kel Nissa > There is no problem with ninjasalvaging, if you don't like it, stop running missions. The chance that there is a problem with ninjasalvaging is higher then the chance that there is no problem. Both chances are probably low, but in reality there is a tendency that ninjasalvaging is a problem. A: Your post made no sense. Learn statistics before trying to use probabilities. B: The only problem with ninja salvaging is carebears (I mean this in the nastiest way possible) who think that eve is a single player game which should be entirely focused on them and their ability to make isk. Let me give you a hint: EVE is a multiplayer game which encourages scamming, pirating, stealing, and anything else. Furthermore, salvaging is NOT a bonus to mission running - it is its own profession, and should require considerable skill investment (not a single skill as it is currently). Now, please go back to WOW because I feel overall you will be happier there. Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.



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