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lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.05 13:42:00 - [1] After the debacle and ridiculous disbandment of BOB, it is obvious that eve actually has a real and fully working I-WIN button. CCP should fix this right away and give BOB its alliance and SOV systems back.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2009.02.05 14:28:00 - [2] Make disbanding an Alliance require a vote by all directors and shareholdes of the executor corp just like such simple things as wardecs and blueprint lockdowns already do?
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.05 14:40:00 - [3] Originally by: Amy Wang Make disbanding an Alliance require a vote by all directors and shareholdes of the executor corp just like such simple things as wardecs and blueprint lockdowns already do? Yup, a timer deal for long term absent directors ect should be implemented as well.
Winters Chill Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.02.05 16:27:00 - [4] I agree, Fix the hole sure, but no takes backsies, no rollbacks, whats done is done.
Etien Aldragoran DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.05 16:42:00 - [5] Negative. Go read up on the info CCP provides for alliance creation.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.05 16:57:00 - [6] Originally by: Etien Aldragoran Negative. Go read up on the info CCP provides for alliance creation. And im sure you being a goon has no baring on your opinion...or that you would be screaming OMGBOBDEVHAX if BOB had done it to your alliance. This I-WIN button should be removed asap as it is not winning by playing the game.
Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.02.05 17:20:00 - [7] While I agree that Alliance disbanding should not be instant, even I while go berserk if CCP does any rollbacks. What is done is done, and should not be intervened in by devs. It's no exploit. Might be a mechanic that needs work, but it's damn clever work on Goons part and should not be rollbacked. Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2009.02.05 17:38:00 - [8] ...or alliance management can limit director access in the executor corp.
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners	Posted - 2009.02.05 18:42:00 - [9] intrestingly enough by the looks of the general forum and what one guy said this has happened before and i assume from what he said that his alliance WAS reinstate now if that precedent is true well technically BOB would have to be reinstated in its former state.
mcnuggetlol Amarr Outlandish Operations	Posted - 2009.02.05 19:15:00 - [10] Originally by: lebrata After the debacle and ridiculous disbandment of BOB, it is obvious that eve actually has a real and fully working I-WIN button. CCP should fix this right away and give BOB its alliance and SOV systems back. In order for this "I win" button to be used the heads of the alliance have to put someone in the position where they can actually pull it off. CCP doesn't need to do ****, people just need to be careful who they make directors.
Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.05 19:24:00 - [11] EVE game design that allowed such sudden disbanding of BoB is simply bad design. It may not even be on level of exploit, it's just poor, weak game design. In that sense, it should be fixed, improved But no rollbacks, of course. No restoration of sov. In a way, BoB had a good run, it's time they learn some humility.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.05 19:41:00 - [12] Originally by: mcnuggetlol Originally by: lebrata After the debacle and ridiculous disbandment of BOB, it is obvious that eve actually has a real and fully working I-WIN button. CCP should fix this right away and give BOB its alliance and SOV systems back. In order for this "I win" button to be used the heads of the alliance have to put someone in the position where they can actually pull it off. CCP doesn't need to do **, people just need to be careful who they make directors. A game design that allows a single player to destroy billions in other players assets, to remove the sov of a almost unlimited amount of star systems with other players POS and capital arrays among other things WITH A SINGLE CLICK OF A BUTTON AND NO WARNING OR TIMER DELAY TELLING OTHER LEADERS or that gives them the ability to stop it is a **e designed game mechanic. I dislike bob intensely and had they done this to goon i would have the same opinion of them...anyway a precedent has been set for roll backs in this situation as it has happened before.
mcnuggetlol Amarr Outlandish Operations	Posted - 2009.02.05 19:44:00 - [13] Originally by: lebrata I dislike bob intensely and had they done this to goon i would have the same opinion of them...anyway a precedent has been set for roll backs in this situation as it has happened before. Given CCP's history with BoB there's no way in hell they'd rollback. Although chances are there'll be an extra patch note come M10 regarding alliance disbanding.
Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.05 19:49:00 - [14] BoB need a lesson in humility. They aren't better than everyone else. No rollbacks. If only you could see the amount of verbal abuse I got from their members.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.05 20:01:00 - [15] Originally by: Ephemeron BoB need a lesson in humility. They aren't better than everyone else. No rollbacks. If only you could see the amount of verbal abuse I got from their members. Right and wrong is not a popularity contest, and if ccp has rolled back for another alliance that had the same thing done to them it is only right they do it for BOB.
Midday Toker	Posted - 2009.02.05 20:10:00 - [16] I think this is all pretty interesting. Its using game mechanics to circumvent game mechanics. LOL My alt is a majority share holding director in the executor corp of the alliance, I intend to take over, but havent gotten around to training up the required skills. Anyway, as a director with a full suite of roles I can do everything the Executor/CEO can, bar from one thing. There is no disband alliance option available. I can withdraw the executor corp or kick other corps, but I cannot disband the alliance as a whole. Generally if the executor leaves, its no biggy, the remaining corps just vote on the new executor. However in this situation the guy kick every corp first, before withdrawing the Executor from the alliance. This is essentailly a loophole around the Executor Corp's CEO being the only one who can disband the alliance. So yeah, Game mechanics to circumvent game mechanics? that doesnt sound to be working as intended to me. I mean really, if I have to go through a 24 hour vote period to unlock something in the hangar, it boggles my mind that directors can kick every corp and withdraw with out some kind of voting measure in place to prevent this exact kind of thing. I think this is more of a situation of unforseen possibilites on CCP's part then anything.
rValdez5987 Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2009.02.05 21:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Etien Aldragoran Negative. Go read up on the info CCP provides for alliance creation. After myself or someone else does this exact same thing to you, we will see how you feel about it. Youll be whining even harder. I look forward to it.
Etien Aldragoran DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.05 22:04:00 - [18] Originally by: rValdez5987 Originally by: Etien Aldragoran Negative. Go read up on the info CCP provides for alliance creation. After myself or someone else does this exact same thing to you, we will see how you feel about it. Youll be whining even harder. I look forward to it. I look forward to it too but only because I'm in the pool for it. But seriously. CCP has published the information related to alliance management to where it's available for everyone. Guess what the description for the director role is?
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2009.02.05 22:06:00 - [19] There is an instruction for EVE? O_O
Zoiewu	Posted - 2009.02.06 01:22:00 - [20] Originally by: Amy Wang Make disbanding an Alliance require a vote by all directors and shareholdes of the executor corp just like such simple things as wardecs and blueprint lockdowns already do? Agree with but alliances should be given the option to either have a vote or be able to leave as is, Shouldn't close the door to this but give more options.
Koyama Ise Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon	Posted - 2009.02.06 02:27:00 - [21] So it remains that it's more of a security threat that a director renames your corp wallet/hanger divisions rather than disbanding the alliance? --- O.P. is made of fail c/d. Originally by: rValdez5987 I dont like your sig. It fills me with rage. I want it removed. Reported.
El Huapo	Posted - 2009.02.06 03:39:00 - [22] confirming that the giant Alliance tears are the tastiest.
Zaxana K. M. A. Enterprise Anarchy.	Posted - 2009.02.06 03:52:00 - [23] It can happen to any alliance worth its space. The most powerful individuals in this game now are the director level spies in executor corps and they know it.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.02.06 08:40:00 - [24] Originally by: Random Womble intrestingly enough by the looks of the general forum and what one guy said this has happened before and i assume from what he said that his alliance WAS reinstate now if that precedent is true well technically BOB would have to be reinstated in its former state. Yes, and from the same forum chatter you can tell, that it was reinstated because the account, that did that was hacked. So the precedent doesn't really apply to this case.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.06 09:39:00 - [25] But didn't bob do this very thing to other corps? Why is it unfair now? inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.06 09:57:00 - [26] Originally by: Zeba But didn't bob do this very thing to other corps? The only time i have heard of this happening was rolled back. Originally by: Zeba Why is it unfair now? Because it was unfair then......
Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.06 10:49:00 - [27] The only possible chance of a rollback is if there is direct evidence of account hacking. It doesn't seem to be the case. If CCP seriously thought this deserved roll back, it would have happened last downtime. The window of opportunity is closed. So just suck it up. You are not better than everyone else.
Rhadamantine Game Community	Posted - 2009.02.06 10:52:00 - [28] What's done is done, they have both been guilty of similar actions. If you live by the sword, expect to die by it. Regards. Rhadamantine.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.06 11:36:00 - [29] Originally by: Ephemeron The only possible chance of a rollback is if there is direct evidence of account hacking. It doesn't seem to be the case. If CCP seriously thought this deserved roll back, it would have happened last downtime. The window of opportunity is closed. So just suck it up. You are not better than everyone else. President or not ccp fully investigating and then making a decision or not is not the real issue, changing the mechanic so it cannot happen again must be done. Seems to me that ppls jealousy is coloring their opinions on the subject, i cannot stand bob and i loathe goons but this game mechanic is so screwed it should be fixed and ppl should not benefit from its use. The entire issue for me is the individual players who's investments and time are now screwed over because of this broken loop hole mechanic.
Tahripado	Posted - 2009.02.06 16:20:00 - [30] and OP r alt BOB, stop to cry n stfu...
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners	Posted - 2009.02.06 16:32:00 - [31] Originally by: Tahripado and OP r alt BOB, stop to cry n stfu... TBH BOB have not complained much can you just imagine if it was goons that got hit they would have the biggest threadnaught ever complaining and demanding a roll back along with all their allies and TBH just by shear numbers they might even get it. Its like a sports game where the sound of the home fans (due to their greater numbers) influences a descion made by an offical which benefits their team.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.06 16:55:00 - [32] Originally by: Tahripado and OP r alt BOB, stop to cry n stfu... Have never been and never will be a member of bob or goons. Go back to caod and troll there with the rest of eves rtars, this forum is for ppl with valid points to discuss.
Tahripado	Posted - 2009.02.06 18:15:00 - [33] Originally by: lebrata Originally by: Tahripado and OP r alt BOB, stop to cry n stfu... Have never been and never will be a member of bob or goons. Go back to caod and troll there with the rest of eves rtars, this forum is for ppl with valid points to discuss. If u arent trolling too y u dont post w ur main then??? Most people know theres a way to things like that dont happen... create an alt corp w only 1 person there n give director roles only for this alt n dont give for **** ur acc pw for any1 else...
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.06 18:26:00 - [34] Originally by: Tahripado If u arent trolling too y u dont post w ur main then??? My main is not allowed to post at the moment or i would. Originally by: Tahripado troll.......... Whatever...like i say go back to caod this area is for grown ups.
NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.06 18:45:00 - [35] Originally by: lebrata Originally by: Tahripado If u arent trolling too y u dont post w ur main then??? My main is not allowed to post at the moment or i would. What the hell, this is not CAOD LOL.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.06 18:56:00 - [36] Edited by: lebrata on 06/02/2009 18:56:43 Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: lebrata Originally by: Tahripado If u arent trolling too y u dont post w ur main then??? My main is not allowed to post at the moment or i would. What the hell, this is not CAOD LOL. Whats caod got to do with anything apart from the muppet above?, im using my cyno account to post as i said.
NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.06 18:58:00 - [37] Originally by: lebrata Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: lebrata Originally by: Tahripado If u arent trolling too y u dont post w ur main then??? My main is not allowed to post at the moment or i would. What the hell, this is not CAOD LOL. A forum ban is a forum ban nub thats why im using my cyno account. Uhm, when you said you were not allowed to post with your main now, then i though you had corp rules about that, and then i was like wtf is that all about. Next time say your main is banned from the forum then instead ktnxbai.
Jenna Malone Caldari W-hat LLC	Posted - 2009.02.06 19:03:00 - [38] Post with your ex-BoB main, you pansy alt!
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.06 19:06:00 - [39] Originally by: NightmareX Uhm, when you said you were not allowed to post with your main now, then i though you had corp rules about that, and then i was like wtf is that all about. Next time say your main is banned from the forum then instead ktnxbai. Or you could just comment on the topic instead of just trolling it and making rash and uneducated judgments like a idiot...
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.06 19:07:00 - [40] Originally by: Jenna Malone troll Go away or add content moron.
NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.06 19:32:00 - [41] Originally by: lebrata Edited by: lebrata on 06/02/2009 19:10:08 Originally by: NightmareX Uhm, when you said you were not allowed to post with your main now, then i though you had corp rules about that, and then i was like wtf is that all about. Next time say your main is banned from the forum then instead ktnxbai. Or you could just comment on the actual topic instead of just trolling it and making rash and uneducated judgments like a idiot... Wow, when was saying that i though you had corp rules against posting is trolling?. Damn you must really know what trolling is. You seems to be the only one who actually are trolling here now.
Zarak1 Kenpach1 R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.02.06 19:46:00 - [42] QQ more about bob failing to do simple admin tasks. CCP has given you all the tools to keep this from happening to you too. Its called role auditing. Had bob not been a bunch of fails they would have spotted him and dropped his roles before this ever happened. Cry more, alliance and coalitioner tears are second tastiest only to empire carebears. yummy
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.06 19:48:00 - [43] Originally by: NightmareX Wow, when was saying that i though you had corp rules against posting is trolling?. Cos this is worthy content?.................... Originally by: NightmareX What the hell, this is not CAOD LOL. Go away.
Zarak1 Kenpach1 R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.02.06 19:49:00 - [44] L2userolestohelpyoufindidledirsthatcouldkillyouralliance. fail
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.02.06 19:56:00 - [45] Originally by: Amy Wang Make disbanding an Alliance require a vote by all directors and shareholdes of the executor corp just like such simple things as wardecs and blueprint lockdowns already do? Yes, that makes sense.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.06 19:58:00 - [46] Originally by: Poreuomai Originally by: Amy Wang Make disbanding an Alliance require a vote by all directors and shareholdes of the executor corp just like such simple things as wardecs and blueprint lockdowns already do? Yes, that makes sense. I agree.
Georn VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.02.07 08:40:00 - [47] It's a flaw that needs to be addressed imho As far as I understand it, it was done within the limits of the game mechanics. Therefore there should be no rollback, but the system needs to be reworked to remove such possibilities for "cheating"
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.07 09:48:00 - [48] Originally by: Georn It's a flaw that needs to be addressed imho As far as I understand it, it was done within the limits of the game mechanics. Therefore there should be no rollback, but the system needs to be reworked to remove such possibilities for "cheating" While that is true ever exploit in the game is done within the game mechanics, it has to as its within the game that the exploit is available and done. If its designated a exploit or broken mechanic then the lost items/space sov ect ect should be replaced as is done with every other broken mechanic.
Ralitge boyter Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.07 10:18:00 - [49] A roll back? Never, BOB and all other alliances knew and know full well that this could happen they could have complained to CCP for many many months yet none of them did. So no rolly backies for the poor BOB boys and girls they lost their alliance and that is final. As for a broken mechanic, I think you have a point there, there is something to say for the fact that an alliance of several thousands of players should not be destructible by a single person having a bad day. I would suggest a vote system with a +50% rule to make it happen and a 1 week timer set, making all that do not vote in time abstain from voting accepting what ever the outcome of the remaining votes will be. That should cover the long time absent directors and that should also give the grunts and bottom feeders enough of a heads up, providing that a mail is send to all corp directors involved letting them know that the vote is on the table. But rolly backsies, because ~2.000 out of the 250.000 people lost their sov in a few of the solar systems, no way there is not a single possible explanation to give to all the other players that would loose their gains made over the past few days. BOB will have to suck it up and rebuild (like they plan to) or simply roll over and die, which ever way it will go no roll backs for the few hurting the masses.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.07 10:28:00 - [50] Originally by: Ralitge boyter As for a broken mechanic, I think you have a point there, there is something to say for the fact that an alliance of several thousands of players should not be destructible by a single person having a bad day. If you believe this, and i happen to agree with you. Originally by: Ralitge boyter BOB will have to suck it up and rebuild (like they plan to) or simply roll over and die, which ever way it will go no roll backs for the few hurting the masses. Then they should have their stuff returned like anybody else would if a broken mechanic lost them it. 2000, 200,000 or just 2 members the numbers are not what is important its the fact that its the practice of eve/ccp to return lost or destroyed items if they are lost and destroyed due to a game error/broken mechanic. A titan was returned not so long ago because when it was removed from the hangar it flew out of the pos and the buyer jumped in and stole it, this was a known issue but ccp still returned the titan to the owner. It is only personal prejudices against a successful and rich alliance that makes ppl fail to see it.
Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.07 10:54:00 - [51] From what I see this caused a lot of interesting things to happen. Delve region is full of life and excitement now. You should have seen it 1 month ago - it was virtually dead. Nothing but chinese farmers This is good for the game.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.02.07 11:38:00 - [52] no cake "we don't meddle with internal affairs" was what i heard when my research-pos-corp was abducted. and i will only accept a total and logical rework of the entire thing. just fixing stuff bob has problems with... we've had that - putting the gist back into logistics
Mag's MASS	Posted - 2009.02.07 12:11:00 - [53] Originally by: lebrata Originally by: Ralitge boyter BOB will have to suck it up and rebuild (like they plan to) or simply roll over and die, which ever way it will go no roll backs for the few hurting the masses. Then they should have their stuff returned like anybody else would if a broken mechanic lost them it. 2000, 200,000 or just 2 members the numbers are not what is important its the fact that its the practice of eve/ccp to return lost or destroyed items if they are lost and destroyed due to a game error/broken mechanic. A titan was returned not so long ago because when it was removed from the hangar it flew out of the pos and the buyer jumped in and stole it, this was a known issue but ccp still returned the titan to the owner. We can all site situations to back up our reasoning. What about the guy who lost his Hulk BPO? He was the CEO of the corp, but the others scamming him had all the shares, so even though the BPO was in lock down in a hanger, they started a vote ejected the CEO and took the BPO. OMG failed mechanic 111!!!!111 Both BoB and Goons have been using Meta gaming tactics on each other. Both have been playing with fire, it just so happens this time, BoB got burnt the most. Originally by: lebrata It is only personal prejudices against a successful and rich alliance that makes ppl fail to see it. Indeed, yours is shining through, now stop your whining and move on, as BoB have. I do infact have more respect for BoB after this, not sure it will last but hey ho.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.02.07 12:40:00 - [54] Originally by: Mag's We can all site situations to back up our reasoning. What about the guy who lost his Hulk BPO? He was the CEO of the corp, but the others scamming him had all the shares, so even though the BPO was in lock down in a hanger, they started a vote ejected the CEO and took the BPO. OMG failed mechanic 111!!!!111 Majority rule, a better mechanic than a individual with the ability to screw over thousands of paying and playing individuals with a single click. Originally by: Mag's Both BoB and Goons have been using Meta gaming tactics on each other. I know i saw the threadnaughts, player bans ect. Originally by: Mag's Indeed, yours is shining through, now stop your whining and move on, as BoB have. My prejudices are against meta no matter who does it. But i do agree that my dislike for bob has lessened marginally considering their response to this indecent, i doubt goons would be so mature about it.

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