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Tankanaka
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Posted - 2009.02.11 23:20:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Tankanaka on 11/02/2009 23:21:19 I really don't think attributes matter that much as far as diversity goes in eve.
Increasing the skills that use Charisma isn't going to solve anything if they aren't related to your career path.
Being able to remap your attributes every six months is fine. It means you either pick a solid layout that allows you to train efficiently in both perception and intelligence or you select an uber focused layout and focus train. The issue with doing this is obvious. Most people find it hard enough focus training for 3 months let alone 6. What are the days gained by doing an uber focus layout vs a perception/intell balance? I recon the total days aren't that many.
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Lord CH0w
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Posted - 2009.02.12 06:46:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Tankanaka Edited by: Tankanaka on 11/02/2009 23:21:19 I really don't think attributes matter that much as far as diversity goes in eve.
Increasing the skills that use Charisma isn't going to solve anything if they aren't related to your career path.
Being able to remap your attributes every six months is fine. It means you either pick a solid layout that allows you to train efficiently in both perception and intelligence or you select an uber focused layout and focus train. The issue with doing this is obvious. Most people find it hard enough focus training for 3 months let alone 6. What are the days gained by doing an uber focus layout vs a perception/intell balance? I recon the total days aren't that many.
i have to agree on this one - for a new player its still better to pick a balanced character then proposed 15/9 - after half a year maybe when ppl have most of the basics in place and are aware what they want to do in EvE its nice to start focusing :)
deffo perc/will for me and a shame i cant leave perc at 3 
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.12 10:06:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Tankanaka Edited by: Tankanaka on 11/02/2009 23:21:19 I really don't think attributes matter that much as far as diversity goes in eve.
Increasing the skills that use Charisma isn't going to solve anything if they aren't related to your career path.
Being able to remap your attributes every six months is fine. It means you either pick a solid layout that allows you to train efficiently in both perception and intelligence or you select an uber focused layout and focus train. The issue with doing this is obvious. Most people find it hard enough focus training for 3 months let alone 6. What are the days gained by doing an uber focus layout vs a perception/intell balance? I recon the total days aren't that many.
Most people with six month old characters will find it hard to focus training in one area, but as time goes on it gets easier and easier to do it.
The change will help the vets more than the noobs, and that's a bad thing.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Tankanaka
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Posted - 2009.02.12 11:22:00 -
[94]
A valid point Rodj...
Though one could also say that the older characters would probably sink their focused training into lvl5 skills, which as we know lvl5 skills for the most part don't really add that much of a advantage -except when used for unlocking more content. I think it would be safe to assume that most older characters would already have most of these within their racial spec.
From my point of view we would see a lot more cross training. Which imo would be a good thing.
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Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2009.02.12 11:24:00 -
[95]
New players will benefit by being able to pick balanced stats without having to roll a cookiecutter stats race/bloodline. So it is an improvement over their current situation.
Do not forget that they get two free respecs meaning you can train everyting int/mem, respec and do per/will. Or whatever suits your skillplan 
CEO | Diary of a pod pilot |

RaTTuS
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.02.12 11:51:00 -
[96]
yes but ATM the re-specs are still 6months apart - so you can nurf yourself pretty hard - after months 5 mil is nothing -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.02.12 13:53:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Tankanaka Edited by: Tankanaka on 11/02/2009 23:21:19 I really don't think attributes matter that much as far as diversity goes in eve.
Increasing the skills that use Charisma isn't going to solve anything if they aren't related to your career path.
Being able to remap your attributes every six months is fine. It means you either pick a solid layout that allows you to train efficiently in both perception and intelligence or you select an uber focused layout and focus train. The issue with doing this is obvious. Most people find it hard enough focus training for 3 months let alone 6. What are the days gained by doing an uber focus layout vs a perception/intell balance? I recon the total days aren't that many.
Most people with six month old characters will find it hard to focus training in one area, but as time goes on it gets easier and easier to do it.
The change will help the vets more than the noobs, and that's a bad thing.
This, pretty much. Just like the call for "erase learning skills and give everyone +10 stat", the prime beneficiaries will be experienced veterans who can quickly farm up their alts in the optimum fashion while playing their mains. Start out your alt with excellent INT & MEM, get the learning skills maxed in record time, then all those support skills - engineering, mechanics, science; switch to ultra-high PERC & WILL and nomnomnom the command and gunnery skills. A year in and 22M SP up and you can fine-tune your stats to whatever specialisation exactly suits you.
Ah well screw it. I have 41M SP, so whatever. I can't even be bothered to get annoyed about this; I'll just milk it. My WILL sucks anyway.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.02.12 13:55:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Tankanaka A valid point Rodj...
Though one could also say that the older characters would probably sink their focused training into lvl5 skills, which as we know lvl5 skills for the most part don't really add that much of a advantage -except when used for unlocking more content. I think it would be safe to assume that most older characters would already have most of these within their racial spec.
From my point of view we would see a lot more cross training. Which imo would be a good thing.
I have come to realise that a rack of Lvl.5 skills counts for more than is intuitively obvious.
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Lexfire Tryone
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Posted - 2009.02.12 14:07:00 -
[99]
I would love just 1 chance at modifying the stats. When I started I thought charisma would be important. Current stats are flat across the board but Will needs some help
Intelligence 8 +9 +4 23.1 Perception 8 +9 +4 23.1 Charisma 11 +8 +3 23.1 Willpower 4 +9 +4 18.7 Memory 8 +9 +4 23.1
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Kurfin
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Posted - 2009.02.12 19:53:00 -
[100]
As long as it is just redistributing the 5 points on the attribute section of character creation (with the same restriction of max 3 points per attribute) it's not going to that big a deal.
It will allow people to correct mistakes made a character creation. Of course you may not have made mistakes in the first place if ancestry came before allocating the extra points, but that's another discussion.
And as for the older players using it to shorten training time, they probably have their attributes around the mid 20's anyway, so it's not going to make a huge difference.
That said I would favor a one time only respec over one every 6 months, because someone is bound to find a way of exploiting it. I'd also quite like one extra attribute point to bring the total up to a nice round 40.
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Tankanaka
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Posted - 2009.02.12 20:11:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Malcanis
I have come to realise that a rack of Lvl.5 skills counts for more than is intuitively obvious.
I have 108 lvl 5 skills. It certainly looks nice on a skill sheet and I'm completely specialized in 3 races, but end of the day there really isn't a big difference between me and a guy that has 30-40 million sp except I can fly more races.
...and to respond about the alt comment. You don't need to be an old player to have alts. Anyone can use this feature to create an army of station training alts.
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SchwarzeFee
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Posted - 2009.02.13 04:46:00 -
[102]
After reading all this stuff, i still dont get it what people find so horrible at respeccing every 6 month. All i had read was "because i dont like it". Its fine if thats someones opinion and everybody is free to have his personal view. But that isnt any kind of serious argumentation against it. It dont hurts you if someone can respecc his attributes, so why do you bother? And not only other people have advantages through it, you also benefit. Dont you like to train faster? Why? Tell me please, because i really dont get it.
And no you arent gimped as a new player. Youre now starting with pretty balanced attributes (8/8/8/8/7) and you can keep them as long as you like them. Thus youre able to train every skill group with a nice balanced training speed. After you got a few basic skills, youre than be able to respecc and faster your training speed. This is an advantage, not a disadvantage. Imagine if you couldnt respecc at this point, you now would be stuck at your balanced training speed and couldnt speed it up anymore.
ps: i know my grammar sucks. sorry. had tried my best.
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Ragnerock
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.13 06:56:00 -
[103]
\o/ re map of atts this should be really good, i tried it out on the ts and now all the skills i could not train very fast my char is wizzing by. this should also make up for the loss of sp when it comes to losing a t3 ship and once every 6 mo is a very good distance of time to allow you to reset attributes. this is by far the best move ccp has made 
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Vindarten
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Posted - 2009.02.13 17:45:00 -
[104]
I can't wait for this to go live. I had quit but before I did I maxed my learning skills for when and if I came back. So now I can train entire skill groups at 33 / 26, and the random skills in between plans will at worst be at 22 / 22.
Not too bad, and I'm glad new players won't feel like they messed up a few months down the line when they come to the forums and realize Charisma is junk.
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jackudza
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Posted - 2009.02.13 22:06:00 -
[105]
Just a little math: Lets assume that learnings and implants are perfect and there are 60 * 24 * 30 * 6 = 259200 minutes in 6 months.
Maximum SP amount that different chars can get in 6 months:
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Perfect learner: Per15 Wil9 Int5 Mem5 Cha5
(15 + 15 + (9 + 15) / 2) * 1.1 * 259200 = 11975040 ( 23,950,080 per year or 1,995,840 per month)
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Achura: Per10 Wil8 Int10 Mem8 Cha3
(10 + 15 + (8 + 15) / 2) * 1.1 * 259200 = 10406880 ( 20,813,760 per year or 1,734,480 per month)
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Balanced: Per8 Wil8 Int8 Mem8 Cha7
(8 + 15 + (8 + 15) / 2) * 1.1 * 259200 = 9836640 ( 19,673,280 per year or 1,639,440 per month)
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SP difference per year:
Achura/Balanced (10,406,880 - 9,836,640) * 2 = 570,240 * 2 = 1,140,480
Perfect learner/Achura (11,975,040 - 10,406,880) * 2 = 1,568,160 * 2 = 3,136,320
Perfect learner/Balanced (11,975,040 - 9,836,640) * 2 = 2,138,400 * 2 = 4,276,800
No comments :) |

Anri
O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.14 04:43:00 -
[106]
In my opinion a respec every 6 months will just lead to people maxing (or as close to maxing) 2 attributes per 6 months and just focusing on those skills. More useful to older characters that want to train several skills to 5, not so good for newer characters who may need to train up various skills that use a wider range of attributes.
If CCP really wants to allow people to make unlimited changes to their attributes make it a gradual change over time. Like allow characters to lower one attribute and put that point in another once a month.
This would not only allow people to move their focus, but would not allow them to always have the "optimal" attributes for what they are training for.
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Lord CH0w
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Posted - 2009.02.14 09:27:00 -
[107]
thats why no one is forcing new players to make 15/9 chars - balanced is still the best way to go for a newbie like me, after 6 months/year its time to respec atributes couse really how much u can get from int/mem skills compared to perc/will and after a year most ppl are already thinking on training other races ships/weapons
cheers |

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2009.02.14 11:35:00 -
[108]
actually, best spec for newbie is int/mem high, rest low. even for combat pilot, everyone (except maybe traders) will need learning and fitting skills, all of it int/mem intensive. this is not to say newbie should start with 3+ month learning (no matter how efficient would that be in the long run), just that training diverse basic skills favors int/mem build. |

Jaabaa
Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.14 18:02:00 -
[109]
Over 5 1/2 years of EVE, so does that mean I get to switch 11 points ?  -- EVE Mobile Skill Planner V3 !! http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/ |

maranne marachian
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Posted - 2009.02.14 22:21:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes actually, best spec for newbie is int/mem high, rest low. even for combat pilot, everyone (except maybe traders) will need learning and fitting skills, all of it int/mem intensive. this is not to say newbie should start with 3+ month learning (no matter how efficient would that be in the long run), just that training diverse basic skills favors int/mem build.
iirc due to the new 100% boost etc you can get 5/4 learning skills in somthing like 3 weeks with int/mem focus if they can use their freespecs at anytime they are laughing all the way to the increased learning speed
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Lord CH0w
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Posted - 2009.02.14 23:21:00 -
[111]
Originally by: maranne marachian
Originally by: Jagga Spikes actually, best spec for newbie is int/mem high, rest low. even for combat pilot, everyone (except maybe traders) will need learning and fitting skills, all of it int/mem intensive. this is not to say newbie should start with 3+ month learning (no matter how efficient would that be in the long run), just that training diverse basic skills favors int/mem build.
iirc due to the new 100% boost etc you can get 5/4 learning skills in somthing like 3 weeks with int/mem focus if they can use their freespecs at anytime they are laughing all the way to the increased learning speed
afaik its 2x speed till 1.6 mln so u cant get 5/4 in all learning skills
but if u mean only 5 in analytical mind/instant recall and 4 in logic/eidetic memory then sorry
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Khrillian
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.15 02:02:00 -
[112]
Attribute Respec: Confirmed for Brawl
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QuantumX
Minmatar Sicarri Covenant Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.15 11:33:00 -
[113]
I'm for this...
As a OLD OLD OLD player.. When i first started EvE i had no real guide to creating a character and started with something like 100k sp... I had a minimatar character that i liked the look of, but meant i had more chrisma then normal..
I would love to remove some of the chrisma points to another stat, though i do believe in a limitation of being able to only move a small proportion of the original points.. ========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
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Calvin Firenze
Minmatar Firenze Heavy Industries Anarchy.
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:09:00 -
[114]
I'm pretty happy with my attributes, I don't remember what I did when I made my character, but I think I said **** it and started clicking randomly because I had no idea what I was doing. If I find an odd point in there on charisma or something I'll take it off, but I only see myself needing to do this one time. I think its a great idea, but I think you should only be allowed to do it once.
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Vindarten
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Posted - 2009.02.16 05:53:00 -
[115]
I used the implant calculator to simulate a 15/9 spread on perc/will.
It shaved 25 days off one of my skill plans. I am so ready for this to go live.
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gammatude
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Posted - 2009.02.16 06:19:00 -
[116]
Since nobody else has pointed this out, let me bold a few phrases that I find interesting from the notes on SISI
Quote: New characters are now able to redistribute their attribute points at will any time after character creation (Twice for free). This option is available on the Character SheetĘs Attributes screen. Pilots pick their character attributes in a way that supports their expected gameplay. With Attribute Respecification, players will be able to change their core attributes (charisma, intelligence, memory, perception, willpower) within the game. Older characters can now redistribute their attribute points once every six months.
If I am reading this correctly then CCP has a dual focus for this feature. The related issues of retaining new players with gimped skill distributions and allowing characters to train in a more focused manner have both been covered.
The focus that I have not seen mentioned is the creation of another revenue stream. NEW players will get two free respecs after which we can assume they will have to pay RL money for any additional respecs. If wide spread training optimization in new players takes place it will only do so because the owners of toons created after March 10th are willing to sink extra money into their characters after they have used their two free repecs.
An important distiction that I see in the note is that charcters created prior to March 10th (Older characters) will have an unlimited supply of FREE respecs at the rate of one every six months. So basically there is no RL money cost to the amount of focused traing that the older characters will have.
I was considering starting a new account or two and will need to move soon as the free repecs for life is an enticing feature.
I am also curious if the free repecs for older characters will follow the characters if they are sold or transfered.
I am also curious why I have so many skill points in Charisma (19 before implants). Oh wait, that was because I was a noob and didn't know any better so I created a balanced character.
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.16 08:34:00 -
[117]
Dude! its 5 million ISK per respec, Its NOT a "For USD" deal like the other things (most games use IGC to "pay" for respeciing) just mine Veldspar for half an hour or so in a hulk.
Lets be blunt
They did this for one reason only.
to make it easyer to do everything on one toon. lets face it the skillpile you need to do things grows with each expansion, and in some cases you end up with skills that are totaly useless. Heck ask anyone who flies BC/Batleships almost exclusivly nowdays how they feel about the skills they invested way back to specialise in Destryers or Assualt frigates.(or the guy who started off as a mining-producer who now spends 95% of his time as a FC in PvP or doing the odd Exploration bit with his freinds because its a slow day)
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gammatude
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Posted - 2009.02.16 10:13:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Steve Thomas Dude! its 5 million ISK per respec, Its NOT a "For USD" deal like the other things (most games use IGC to "pay" for respeciing) just mine Veldspar for half an hour or so in a hulk.
Lets be blunt
They did this for one reason only.
to make it easyer to do everything on one toon. lets face it the skillpile you need to do things grows with each expansion, and in some cases you end up with skills that are totaly useless. Heck ask anyone who flies BC/Batleships almost exclusivly nowdays how they feel about the skills they invested way back to specialise in Destryers or Assualt frigates.(or the guy who started off as a mining-producer who now spends 95% of his time as a FC in PvP or doing the odd Exploration bit with his freinds because its a slow day)
Dude! Sweet! Well I had no idea that it was in game currency that will be used for attribute respeccing since RL currency is used for other character change functions such as transfer fees and avatar changes I assumed that this would also be a real currency based charge. If it is only 5 million ISK that's basically nothing so...
Dude! Sweet!
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MarieFrance Tessier
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Posted - 2009.02.16 13:25:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Meylota LeFey Screenie of the respec window
Oh ****.
That learning column is out of 15.
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Eichlan
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Posted - 2009.02.16 14:40:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Antarr Slagh
Originally by: Planktal There's a simple answer to all this, if you don't like it, DON'T DO IT! Maybe you don't like this but many others have been waiting years for something like this. Just because you think this is a bad idea for yourself doesn't mean others do.
exactly
On that basis they should allow for redistribution of SP's already earned, any that don't like it can just ignore it.
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