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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Fumen
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Posted - 2009.02.10 18:48:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Gartel Reiman
No, it won't actually. All things being equal, it will take them exactly the same time to get to the 7m skillpoint level:
(....)
In short - it's not actually going to make a vast amount of difference in terms of invalidating older players' time. For most, normal players this will end very similar to the old scheme but allowing them to choose specifically what skill to include in their "starting" set. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if general advice in future is to ignore training learning skills past level 1 or 2 until you have about a million skillpoints...
Gartel is exactly on here. They've taken away 800k sp meaning that new players have to spend a week or two training just to catch up to the same spot a character created a year ago was at the minute it was created.
I might have to disagree a bit here on the best idea start for learning skills. Getting all 3s in the learning skills overnight on your very first day will probably be ideal. Given that 4s will now only take about 10-12 hours each will mean they can be trained in the first week easily using the skill queue. Even going 4/3 on the learning skills can probably be done in a week. I'd have to sit down and do the math on to get exact numbers. Again, it's going to come down to player choices: are they patient enough to spend a few days preparing to enjoy EVE for the long term (1-2 yrs+) or are they just looking for the MMO du jour.
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Ishikari
Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.02.10 19:16:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Ishikari on 10/02/2009 19:15:52 Also keep in mind that unless a new player is given a fat pile of isk off the bat, they wont have the 4.5m per advanced learning skill to go buy them.. unless they REALLY like that rookie ship and want to take that over a nice frigate.
So the 4/3 thing is out the window at least initially.. although getting the basic learnings to 4 each wont take long at all and is sufficiant for a new player in the first 2/3 months until they get the hang of things and are going to stick around. --- Ishikari Industries
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Anneke Goulet
CUTLASS CORPORATION
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Posted - 2009.02.10 19:40:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Flinchey does anyone else here.. have a problem with new players now being able to train all rank 1 learning skills to V... and all rank two to IV at HALF PAYOFF TIME
RTFM. Seriously as atm you're just trolling away so much it's sad. 1.6mil sp. Rank 1 learning skill to 5= 256k sp. Rank 3 to 4 = 135k Learning to 5 =256k.
So, numbers 6x256k + 5x135k =1.536 mil + 0.675 mil ... at 1.6mil the 100% boni drops. What your argument was again? Next time check your facts before you start shouting them on the open, might help a bit if you even remotely knew what you're supposed to talk.
Originally by: Napro Yeah the difference being I had my 800K spread out amongst about 60 diff skills
A newb or alt can focus those 1.6 on learnings entirely
Does not change the fact that the time in hours when you're done the learning and the march 10 newbie is done learning + frig, industry etc skills to match borked achura alt, same time has passed. Or you do you really suspect the newbie is going to stay in his shiny ibis and civilian repper+guns for 2.211 mil sp time?
Sure, he could *win* day in training, but since you're minmaxer who's going to stay with us for long time, you most likely have all learning done to lvl 5 anyways so you're just going to keep getting ahead of him in the years to come. If you dont have done all learnings to 5, dont ***** and moan as you're yourself failed to max-out sp speed. |
Bimjo
Caldari Domination. Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.02.10 19:53:00 -
[34]
As a vet with over 90 mill SP I welcome this move, the more people on higher SP the better for all
Regarding Chribba, He is allowed leeway in his posting due to his tireless hours/úúú he allocates to make EVE a better place |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.02.10 20:50:00 -
[35]
yay, less toon spam from cyno alts, research bimbos and whatnot - and i think thats a good thing. i want people in "real" chars. i'm sure half of our alliance consists of these throw-away "exploits" - 'sploiting the fact that you can get a solid copy achura in less than a day. i'm glad everybody can do that on his main and/or prime alt "just as well", if not faster.
this makes little difference to new players; after <2months, the break-even will be reached and most of them will have less cr4p than the current templates. you're just *****ing about your instant/"free" throw-away alts |
Stalina
Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:08:00 -
[36]
Does this make skilling cynoalts easier or is it limited to one character per account? _________________________________
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Random Womble
Minmatar Master Miners
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Posted - 2009.02.11 00:22:00 -
[37]
Got to say i love the people in here who have not read the truth of what is happening (admittedly i missed the whole starting at 50k again thing at first). This change is imho a good one it means noobs will now learn what their skills do as the train them again rather than being able to fly a cruiser after a day without having a clue wtf to do with it.
To the guy that started at 800k that did not read and was *****ing seriously you have no right to complain this time they are making it so someone that starts now does not really have any disadvantage to someone who starts later except that they have less choice of their skills. When they intially introduced the 800k starting SP all the people that had just reached 800k or were just about to got shafted as they did not get a boost to their skillpoints (which would then have meant everyone would have to have been boosted) so even tho they could have been playing for a month a 1 day old noob had the same sp of them.
I think i had 30k SP when i started, had i had the 800k you get today i would have been a worse pilot for far longer than i was, learning what stuff did was important.
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Gil Danastre
Amarr Madhatters Inc. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 04:30:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Gil Danastre on 11/02/2009 04:34:38 Only thing I don't understand is why is everyone complaining you need to get the basics to 5 and advanced to 4? going 4/3 will save you a lot of time, and you really won't notice those 2 extra attrib's for a long while. I mean looking at EVEmon, I tossed together a ~1 year skillplan, the suggested train for learning skills would save me a total of 7 days train time out of an initial 380 day train. Saving the money and getting some +3/4 implants is far more effective IMO. |
Yentruoc Hynd
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Posted - 2009.02.11 07:04:00 -
[39]
Howdy RW
I have to agree on this move too. Now, in a Noobs mind, it won't be forced to train those learnings up. I mean seriously, we older folk must of loved torturing ourselves. Actually spending the first month getting up from 30k in just learning skills. Then being told yeah, you should work on getting past those lame mining lasers.
Now, the new person will be exposed to many different aspects of eve Faster without the learning skill lag caused by us older folk putting so much emphasis on training the learning skills and nothing but for the first month. Now we can say, hey peon, train that friggy up mwd and scrammers, and come have some fun. Oh and when that learning bonus drops, you better train up your learning skills and implant skills.
Dunno, far better then the last change, givin the nubbins so much sp at the start..
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deepfreeze007
Caldari Swordfish LLD
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Posted - 2009.02.11 08:37:00 -
[40]
This is for the ppl that actually have more than one account. How many of you really spent as much time training learning skills on your first character as you should have? Weren't you too busy mining/missioning/ratting/pvp'ing/learning how the game worked/etc and working on those skills to make iskies to worry about taking 2+ months off just to get the advanced skills to 5? I still don't have maxed learning skills, but the alts that came after trained for learning and +5 sets straight off the bat.
Unless a new player comes into this game with an "experienced" friend, I see them starting out much the same way we all did, just kinda stumbling around and learning how to walk before learning how to run. ---
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Tnam
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:00:00 -
[41]
This is just a beautiful piece of alt love <3 it CCP. Works for everyone, I don't care much about the people who make isk selling nub alts with learnings because for me they might as well sell GTC/Plex, its the same deal you are paying the account you train and pay the Ç20 transfer fee anyway.
But for me, this is nice, I can roll and alt and train it for cyno and cloaking in about 3 days etc.
Also to all the whiners, I've known so many people start eve and quit over learning skills, when you start the game you want to feel progress, this means skills progress too else its just very very boring. Gamer's instincitively know that if they don't train learnings they are nerfing themselves in the future for progress, but if they spend ~1 month training learnings then they are stuck in a t1 fitted t1 frig which is not everyone's bag and isn't really offering many options for earning ISK either. ----
Mortis Angelus is recruiting, please see our recruitment thread |
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:21:00 -
[42]
Notice how he has like 50,000 sp.
Every char starts with > 750,000 and even if ur a moron and podded urself a few times. You will still have basic clone amount of sp. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
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CCP Fear
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:44:00 -
[43]
This looks more like a thread about learning skills than anything else! "You can train learning skills quicker". I wanted to chime in a little bit.
There is a devblog explaining this all coming in (no idea when it will hit, the schedule for the devblogs keeps changing) But a quick summary;
We reduce skills that you get from Character creation to 50K or around that. This means that we would essentially be destroying noobies post apocrypha. Thus we need to get them up to par with others.
Double speed will allow you to "catch up" to those pre-apocrypha in about 40 days, which is at 1.6 million SP. This is calculated at total SP though so you can go more than 40 days if you don't spend all days training.
Learning skils. Yes you can train them but my advice to any noob would be to wait. Yes, you might get some long term bonus after X amount of months. But let's look at it this way;
Two noobies start at the same time. One is instructed to train the learning skills right away, the other is not.
They both hit the 1.6 million mark around the same time, but let's analyze their SP and skills.
The one training the learning skills has;
50K SP towards weapons, mining, ships and so forth. 1.55 million SP towards learning skills
The one that trained regular skills;
1.6 millions SP geared towards specilized weapons, industry, S&I, ships etc.
Now, which one of these would you like to be? The one that started the learning skills and gains some bonus in his training over a period of unknown time; or the one who can play the game from day one and gets to fly new ships and stuff.
This change allows for much better specilization, more choices and basically enhances the sandbox. They are free to do whatever they wish to do with those 1.6 million SP.
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EvilSpork
Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:51:00 -
[44]
Originally by: CCP Fear
The one training the learning skills has;
50K SP towards weapons, mining, ships and so forth. 1.55 million SP towards learning skills
The one that trained regular skills;
1.6 millions SP geared towards specilized weapons, industry, S&I, ships etc.
Now, which one of these would you like to be? The one that started the learning skills and gains some bonus in his training over a period of unknown time; or the one who can play the game from day one and gets to fly new ships and stuff.
i would rather be the one with a boatload of skills that i had no idea i needed or even existed and already having the basic ability to fly a frig or cruiser within a few days.
the starting skills are a huge boost to the starting player. they get one or two skills at lvl 5 that they would NEVER have at that early of a stage otherwise, etc. starting with 800k sp gives the new player a basis to work from. 50k sp puts them completely in the dark and makes the already insane learning curve even harder.
this also screws existing players wanting to make a fast trade alt or pos gunner or, or, or, or...
this does not affect me in the least but i do not like the change. (the low sp change that is.) fast training would be nice for trial accounts or something.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:54:00 -
[45]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 11/02/2009 12:55:58 well it's more of like... a good chunk of the players, not all mind you but some. And a developer was quoting saying learning skills was the biggest mistake eve ever made on eve tv when asked what was the one thing he would change.
but honestly, it's mostly me I'm really passionate about finding some new way to give out skill points and abolishing advanced learning skills :(
thanks for thr reply, I've ben thinking about too and your right about one thing, it's better to train lots of things as far as what is fun in eve. But what happens when players down the road find out they could of trained those skills in 6 days instead of 14-15? It's just... advanced skills.... nvm I'm ranting
Quote: they get one or two skills at lvl 5 that they would NEVER have at that early of a stage otherwise, etc. starting with 800k sp gives the new player a basis to work from. 50k sp puts them completely in the dark and makes the already insane learning curve even harder.
you haven't tried out the new tutorial have you
it's very clean on what skills to train.
and besides, training your skills to level 5 is pointless when you start off, so I guess that's a good thing.
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EvilSpork
Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 13:02:00 -
[46]
Edited by: EvilSpork on 11/02/2009 13:05:30
Originally by: MotherMoon
Quote: they get one or two skills at lvl 5 that they would NEVER have at that early of a stage otherwise, etc. starting with 800k sp gives the new player a basis to work from. 50k sp puts them completely in the dark and makes the already insane learning curve even harder.
you haven't tried out the new tutorial have you
it's very clean on what skills to train.
and besides, training your skills to level 5 is pointless when you start off, so I guess that's a good thing.
i haven't because i cant log on to eve on sisi or tq on either of my computer due to bugs
i disagree about starting with a lvl 5. if i want to mine and i start with lvl 4 mining + a few other related skills, i can jump right into it and be effective. same with frigate 4, and gunnery 5 or some such.
that level 5 skill will be a shining point in their character sheet for likely a year before they start getting similar skills to lvl 5.
at the very least.. thing of the alts!!!
edit: replying to your edit: starting with science 4 can certainly put you well on your way to a goal.
http://www.eve-guides.com/chargen/chargen.php look at the suggestions for creating character types. several of those gain a LOT from the initial 800k sp and skills.
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Azzatu
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Posted - 2009.02.11 13:09:00 -
[47]
a simple solution would be to abolish learning skills, give everyone the stats from them, and let people redistribute the SP somehow, although that would need some precious coding time... |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.11 13:22:00 -
[48]
no wait think about it. With the new training time, instead of getting that level 5 skill, you have the same sp BUT you now have 2 more skills at level 4.
so instead of a 5% increase in something, you have 2 20% bonuses. at the same sp count.
Also, no that skill wasn't helpful, I would of rather had double sp training for my alts.
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EvilSpork
Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 18:35:00 -
[49]
Originally by: MotherMoon no wait think about it. With the new training time, instead of getting that level 5 skill, you have the same sp BUT you now have 2 more skills at level 4.
so instead of a 5% increase in something, you have 2 20% bonuses. at the same sp count.
Also, no that skill wasn't helpful, I would of rather had double sp training for my alts.
you're probably right, but im going to argue my point anyway
i just like the idea of training for like a week and having all the needed stuff to fly something.. or even train 15 minutes and be able to hit the belts mining.
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.02.11 19:33:00 -
[50]
Well if I had to pick I would go for the full learning character, but then again I got 2 characters already loaded with usefull skills. Wish they had brought this system in a long time ago so I didn't had to keep my alt docked in station for several months to finish learning. Heck this thing was outdated! So updated.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.11 19:39:00 -
[51]
Originally by: CCP Fear This looks more like a thread about learning skills than anything else! "You can train learning skills quicker". I wanted to chime in a little bit.
There is a devblog explaining this all coming in (no idea when it will hit, the schedule for the devblogs keeps changing) But a quick summary;
We reduce skills that you get from Character creation to 50K or around that. This means that we would essentially be destroying noobies post apocrypha. Thus we need to get them up to par with others.
Double speed will allow you to "catch up" to those pre-apocrypha in about 40 days, which is at 1.6 million SP. This is calculated at total SP though so you can go more than 40 days if you don't spend all days training.
Learning skils. Yes you can train them but my advice to any noob would be to wait. Yes, you might get some long term bonus after X amount of months. But let's look at it this way;
Two noobies start at the same time. One is instructed to train the learning skills right away, the other is not.
They both hit the 1.6 million mark around the same time, but let's analyze their SP and skills.
The one training the learning skills has;
50K SP towards weapons, mining, ships and so forth. 1.55 million SP towards learning skills
The one that trained regular skills;
1.6 millions SP geared towards specilized weapons, industry, S&I, ships etc.
Now, which one of these would you like to be? The one that started the learning skills and gains some bonus in his training over a period of unknown time; or the one who can play the game from day one and gets to fly new ships and stuff.
This change allows for much better specilization, more choices and basically enhances the sandbox. They are free to do whatever they wish to do with those 1.6 million SP.
That sadly is the problem with learning skills - any newbie figures out that SP = good, faster SP = better. The game is much more interesting if you _don't_ train learning skills, but ends up crippling you longer term.
That's what's known as a 'lose-lose' situation. -- 249km locking? |
SecHaul
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Posted - 2009.02.11 19:56:00 -
[52]
My recommendation is:
Start new characters with the reduced 50k. Put the other 800k that currently new characters get, and put it all into Learning skills.
That way a new character post March 10th has all the options to try what they want in a sandbox, however they aren't put into a situation where they need to choose between learning or practical, because a huge chunk of learning is already provided.
This minimizes the time they need to get started if they wish to min/max SP gain, starts them on-par with current character SP, and gives them all the options of an open sandbox.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.11 20:06:00 -
[53]
Originally by: SecHaul My recommendation is:
Start new characters with the reduced 50k. Put the other 800k that currently new characters get, and put it all into Learning skills.
That way a new character post March 10th has all the options to try what they want in a sandbox, however they aren't put into a situation where they need to choose between learning or practical, because a huge chunk of learning is already provided.
This minimizes the time they need to get started if they wish to min/max SP gain, starts them on-par with current character SP, and gives them all the options of an open sandbox.
this please.
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deepfreeze007
Caldari Swordfish LLD
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Posted - 2009.02.11 20:38:00 -
[54]
Originally by: SecHaul My recommendation is:
Start new characters with the reduced 50k. Put the other 800k that currently new characters get, and put it all into Learning skills.
That way a new character post March 10th has all the options to try what they want in a sandbox, however they aren't put into a situation where they need to choose between learning or practical, because a huge chunk of learning is already provided.
This minimizes the time they need to get started if they wish to min/max SP gain, starts them on-par with current character SP, and gives them all the options of an open sandbox.
No. They are already being given a tool to help them catch up to "slightly older" players, let them decide where they want to put their SP. ---
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Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:04:00 -
[55]
Can we just get rid of learning skills?
Give everyone +8 to all of their attributes, drop all learning skills, be done with it. Use the shiny new +100% learning time tool to give players who have any learning skills to 5 the chance to make up the lost SP.
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Mica Swanhaven
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:09:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik Can we just get rid of learning skills?
Give everyone +8 to all of their attributes, drop all learning skills, be done with it. Use the shiny new +100% learning time tool to give players who have any learning skills to 5 the chance to make up the lost SP.
agreed
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WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:09:00 -
[57]
Noobs should be rewarded the learning skills by doing some basic missions. Instead of isk reward give them learning skill levels. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
"Nothing about Eve should be easy. Not even ganking." -Rhohan
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr Shadow Command Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:20:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 11/02/2009 21:21:56 Could somebody explain to me what's wrong with the system as it is now? As a 3 month old newbie I don't like the idea that if I started on M10 I'd have to wait 2 weeks to actually begin playing the game without getting blown up in lvl 1 missions.
________________________________________________
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:22:00 -
[59]
Originally by: WarlockX Noobs should be rewarded the learning skills by doing some basic missions. Instead of isk reward give them learning skill levels.
Seriously, do it ccp.
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr Shadow Command Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:27:00 -
[60]
I'm actually going to think about this for a second...
It WOULD have saved me time when I was training Salvaging/Connections/Learning skills. They're all invaluble for a newbie, so I guess that this does have bonuses. But if you can't actually play the game when you begin, how do you find the will to keep playing? ________________________________________________
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