I do think the new turret icons need looked at. They shouldn't revert to the old ones, but make it so that they are easier to distinguish between modules. The laser icons look like camel dung.

I do think the new turret icons need looked at. They shouldn't revert to the old ones, but make it so that they are easier to distinguish between modules. The laser icons look like camel dung.

ITT: Easily confused people.

So let me get this straight. You want CCP to get entirely new icons for the entirely new icons they currently use for the turret icons. Are you sure that it wouldn't be better to have the old icons instead of the new? The old look exactly like a gun. The new ones look like a wookie. And this doesn't maybe change your opinion of the situation?

No. ITT: people who dislike functional deterioration (because that's what has happened GÇö the new icons pictures are functionally inferior to the old (actual) icons).

GǪand I don't see the need to create new new ones, when there already exists a full set of icons that match the prevalent UI design. Just go back to using those (and send the person who decided to ditch the icons for pictures as UI elements to a basic class in HMI design).

Let me see if I follow you correctly: The new icons

Let me see if I follow you correctly: The new icons are functionally more difficult because they actually look like the things they represent, rather than an abstraction of the weapon type?

GǪno, you're not following me correctly. The new pictures are not icons GÇö they're pictures. They do not serve the same function.

Icons are meant to quickly, clearly, and cleanly represent a concept or action, and do so in a way that distinguishes the icon from the rest of the UI and from other icons, even ones that are closely related. The simple the icon can be and still communicate its use and be easily distinguished from the background noise and competing symbols, the better it is.

The old icons did all of that, because they were icons. The new pictures do almost none of it (unsurprisingly since they're not really icons).

So yes, the new pictures are functionally much worse than the old icons at the job of being icons.

So, what you're saying

You're telling me you'd rather go back to the old, lower quality icons, because you don't have the ability to learn how to distinguish between different things. What did you do when you originally started playing and had no idea what any of these icons meant?

Case closed, /thread.

Is that icons should be icons, not pictures.

The new pictures do not serve the purpose they're meant to serve GÇö the old icons did. It's that simple.

I must borrow this lovely image by Tippia

[img]http://eve.beyondreality.se/incarna/TurretComp.png[/img]

Now... what was the statement about low quality there ?

btw there was thread about this in old assembly hall, but don't really want to start new one... It already made clear that many people seemed to be rather unanimous on the topic.

It just would be nice to know is this topic burried for good or are there any plans to do _something_.

I am amused that you think a picture cannot be an icon

or that having icon pictures that look like the objects they represent is somehow confusing.

Yes, the old ones were low quality. When you see those new icons there? Yeah, that's exactly what it will look like when it's on your ship. I fail to see how this is SO UTTERLY CONFUSING.

I am amused that you think a picture cannot be an icon, or that having icon pictures that look like the objects they represent is somehow confusing.

Yes, the old ones were low quality. When you see those new icons there? Yeah, that's exactly what it will look like when it's on your ship. I fail to see how this is SO UTTERLY CONFUSING.

I thought gamers were in general afraid of change, but this takes it to a whole new level of absurdity.

So I take it you argue with you optometrist, or every other professional you come across. This is UI design 101. A picture makes a horrible icon for the simple reason that they're not simple. There's too much noise; too much detail; too much useless pixels; too much information loss at different sizes and scales.

If you want to use a picture as a basis for an icon, that's fine, but you will have to refine it something immensely and simplify and refine the defining characteristics to the bare minimums. Otherwise, it fails as an icon.
Except, of course, that this is not what I'm saying GÇö that's what you're saying.

What I'm saying is that pictures are not icons because they fail to do all the things an icon needs to do.
GǪexcept, of course, that what they look on your ship is entirely irrelevant for what the icon is there to do. Why are you so confused by having an icon that means GǣLarge Long-range Laser TurretGǥ? Why are you so confused by having an icon that stands out against its background? Why are you so confused by clarity?

So no, the new ones are not of a higher quality GÇö they are of a higher detail level, which actually means they're lower-quality icons.

its the turret "icons" next to the locked target that get me, they just all look like brown ****.

So I take it you argue with you optometrist, or every other professional you come across. This is UI design 101. A picture makes a horrible icon for the simple reason that they're not simple. There's too much noise; too much detail; too much useless pixels; too much information loss at different sizes and scales.

If you want to use a picture as a basis for an icon, that's fine, but you will have to refine it something immensely and simplify and refine the defining characteristics to the bare minimums. Otherwise, it fails as an icon.
Except, of course, that this is not what I'm saying GÇö that's what you're saying.

What I'm saying is that pictures are not icons because they fail to do all the things an icon needs to do.
GǪexcept, of course, that what they look on your ship is entirely irrelevant for what the icon is there to do. Why are you so confused by having an icon that means GǣLarge Long-range Laser TurretGǥ? Why are you so confused by having an icon that stands out against its background? Why are you so confused by clarity?

So no, the new ones are not of a higher quality GÇö they are of a higher detail level, which actually means they're lower-quality icons.

Well obviously your and my standards of high quality are different, so we clearly disagree here. That happens a lot to me, but I'll live... :)

Btw... you gotta at least admit that the new icons are way off from line compared to all the other old icons.

GǪor, to use that old chestnut, let's take the example of the Fire Exit sign.

How do you design one? Well, you don't plaster a picture of Phan Thi Kim Phuc on the door and hope people see the connection. It may contain the right elements (fire, running away, painGǪ) but its meaning is thoroughly unclear in the heat of a fire.

Instead, you have a highly stylized fire, a highly stylized running man, and an arrow pointing in the right direction. Hell, you could arguably even skip the running man. This conveys in a few very easily recognizable shapes the meaning "Fire? Run! Over there GåÆ"

Replacing these icons with pictures of the same things (if at all possible, which is debatable in some cases) does not improve the sign GÇö quite the opposite, because it just adds unnecessary (and even harmful) extra information to process.

The higher definition icons we use now are better.

They look exactly like what they are.

They're also color coded for those of us who pay attention to that kind of thing. As I sit here in a station right now cycling through the various weapon types, I can tell at a glance exactly what they are and do.

I was under the impression that all icons would get the photorealistic overhaul eventually.

Next time you fit your ship in a smoke filled room as you dive out a window, you let me know.

I'm a bit ignorant and can't contemplate common sense mostly ever.

What is wrong with the new icons you ungrateful things?

...not good icons. Well, that's progress at leastGǪ

Important note: Capital laser batteries do not actually exist, either.

You know what they do with the art, when they make new icons for things inside your ship? MAKE IT UP.

Your bad points are entirely arbitrary.

Literally, you're sitting here saying 'Hey, CCP! I know you spent money and time on this and all, but I don't like it. You should waste some more money to meet my entirely arbitrary art-school list of demands.'

So?

Sums it all up, right there.

No. ITT: people who dislike functional deterioration (because that's what has happened GÇö the new icons pictures are functionally inferior to the old (actual) icons).

GǪand I don't see the need to create new new ones, when there already exists a full set of icons that match the prevalent UI design. Just go back to using those (and send the person who decided to ditch the icons for pictures as UI elements to a basic class in HMI design).

So you agree then. Good.

CCP, give us back the oldactual turret icons.

you'll just keep saying my arguments are straw men

while you spout unfounded claims of your own

I start to get the feeling that Xander photoshopped these images for us from the actual models and now he doesn't want them to get trashed. Clear CCP alt spotted. Tinhat on. There is no spoon.

Nah, I just don't get my **** tied in a knot every time anything changes.

Excellent. Then we can petition CCP to add a functionality where everything that appears in your (personal or corp) hangar and wallet is immediately transferred to me instead.

Because change is good.

Excellent. Then we can petition CCP to add a functionality where everything that appears in your (personal or corp) hangar and wallet is immediately transferred to me instead.

Because change is good.

Doesn't your school have a debate class or something?

Could someone with the knowledge let me/us know if there are plans to restore these?

The new icons are really messy compared to old ones and really difficult to see in space. I know very few - if any - who would disagree about old icons being better and easier to tell the difference between each other.

The CSM stated that although the new gun effects are very nice, the new gun icons leave something to
be desired and are difficult to distinguish from each other. The CSM felt they were too dark and
generally hard to see. CCP agreed there was room for improvement, and stated that work was already
underway on this matter.

You think they blend in with the background. I don't. They look just fine beside the target locked.

However, icons aren't about words - they are meant to be a quick and convenient way to relay information without using words.
The old icons did that.
The new ones don't.

Icons work best when they are clear, colorful and abstract.
The new icons are none of those things.

Have to agree here, the new 'icons' are not Icons. They are a set of "wouldnt_it_be_cool_if_we_showed_how_detailed_we_could_make_tiny_pictures_of_our_new_guns"

Icons shouldnt be about geting as much detail as possible in... they are about functionality.

I agree that the new icons are very hard to identify compared to the old ones.

I also don't think this is a very big problem. How many different guns do you guys mount on your ships?
One type of gun and maybe a group of launchers and/or neuts covers 99% of the fits. Why do you need to see the type of gun from the icon?

Could someone with the knowledge let me/us know if there are plans to restore these?

The new icons are really messy compared to old ones and really difficult to see in space. I know very few - if any - who would disagree about old icons being better and easier to tell the difference between each other.

The CSM stated that although the gun effects are very nice, the new gun icons leave something to be desired and are difficult to distinguish from each other. The CSM felt they were too dark and generally hard to see. CCP agreed there was room for improvement, and stated that wok was already underway on this matter.

We don't need to step back to the old ones.
If we did then we would have icons that look nothing like the guns.

CCP is already working on better icons. It seems as though the current icons are too low-res for the amount of detail they have. It's almost as though someone took pictures of each turret and then badly compressed them. Ideally the icons should match those we see in the fitting window, albeit somewhat simplified so that they are easy to distinguish quickly.

Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.

We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.

I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.

This is really great news :)

There are times when I should correct my slightly damaged attitude towards decissions made by CCP.
This is one of them.
Big thank you.

Oh for god sake. I have never seen such a heated back and forth discussion about such a worthless, trivial matter in all my days. What's worse is that some of you are actually serious and are treating this like an important issue. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. The icons really don't matter. They don't. It got that bad in here that t0rfifrans gave you your answer. You're getting the old icons back. If this thread is any indication of what you think is important- god help us when CCP deliver ship customization and it's not to everyone's personal tastes.

Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.

The icons really don't matter.

It got that bad in here that t0rfifrans gave you your answer.

If this thread is any indication of what you think is important- god help us when CCP deliver ship customization and it's not to everyone's personal tastes.

Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.

We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.

I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.

If this thread is any indication of what you think is important- god help us when CCP deliver ship customization and it's not to everyone's personal tastes.

Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.

We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.

I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.

Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.

We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.

I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.

Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.

We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.

I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.

Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.

We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.

I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.

Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.

We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.

I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.

Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.

We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.

I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.

Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.

We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.

I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.

If say, 30% of the population don't like the looks of new artwork, things really don't need to be prioritized to fit their desires.

Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.

We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.

I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.

You're telling me you'd rather go back to the old, lower quality icons, because you don't have the ability to learn how to distinguish between different things. What did you do when you originally started playing and had no idea what any of these icons meant?

Case closed, /thread.

Nah, I just don't get my **** tied in a knot every time anything changes.

Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.

We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.

I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.

Any update about the time frame?

SoonGäó

Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.

We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.

I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.