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Element 22 Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.15 06:01:00 - [31] Originally by: Corstaad Believe what yah want but Minny BS's are average at best. The real secret is how the tempest experts have found ways to not to get on killboards. Sorry but this isn't early 2007. I Ninja tempests! I knew it! No wonder they're never on the killboard! Ninjas wouldn't want their presence to be adver Signatures are annoying...kinda like me.
Fire Ants The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple	Posted - 2009.02.15 06:30:00 - [32] Originally by: Element 22 Ninja tempests! I knew it! No wonder they're never on the killboard! Ninjas wouldn't want their presence to be adver Ha! Surely you jest. Why, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever hea ----- Internet Spaceships perfectly strikes your Sense of Humor, wrecking for Serious Business. -----
Psiri	Posted - 2009.02.15 06:34:00 - [33] Haha, very funny guys. Do you honestly expect me to be
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.02.15 09:22:00 - [34] I am minmatar and must say a few poitns a pure bull312#!@#!@ Arties have MORE dps than rail! Their only real issues are very limited range and the very small clip. Solve the clip issue and all is ok. Typhoon is the BS can can field more tank and gank at same time. No other battleship can dish 900 dps with 7 SLOT TANK! THe recons and capitals although really need some love. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Polinus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.02.15 09:26:00 - [35] Originally by: Fire Ants I have yet to find a single ship in this game that someone hasn't already complained about at great length. That's why I pick my ships based purely on their appearance and then do my best to not totally suck in them. Seriously, I'm gonna be all up in the Loki, split weapons and all. try findign people sayign the revelation or moros suck. OR that the falcon suck. Hard but not impossible to find people that think zealot sucks. try to find people that say the current apoc sux (the old one was the godfather of all whined ships)
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.02.15 09:50:00 - [36] Edited by: BiggestT on 15/02/2009 09:51:57 What IS the OP whinging about? I admit that bs projectiles are a tad meh but thats about it. Try flying Caldari for once, where you have no slots for ewar + tank, crappy grid (any non-fail setup needs an rcu), have mediocre dps and are often only truely effective when in some kind of rarely used extremist niche. Sure theres some expceptions e.g. falcon, but thats only because its extreme niche suddenly suits the EvE metagame. edit: And with all this said and done I dont think Caldari need a boost, some ships need boosts/balancing but these exist in every race. EVE history t2 precisions
Burn Mac Minmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.02.15 13:58:00 - [37] I have a few problems with Minnie ships and weapon systems (i cannot comment on caps since i dont fly em) Our falloff gets tracking disrupted but it doesnt get boosted by a tracking computer or tracking enhancer (thats bad). hmm thats about it, i love my rifter,rupture,stabber and hurricane even though i dont pilot the hurricane yet.
To mare	Posted - 2009.02.15 14:12:00 - [38] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Arties have MORE dps than rail! Their only real issues are very limited range and the very small clip. Solve the clip issue and all is ok. Lies artillery have LESS base dps than rails, and this is fine, the only thing that arty need is to make their alpha worth again. other things: give minmatar a T1 ammo that do equal base damage to AM for blaster and MF for laser. switch typhoon and tempest shield & armor HPs. REDUCE MASS ON OUR SHIPS, its not possible that minmatars paper ships have the same mass of amarr ships, this go at least for the typhoon, tempest, stabber, vagabond and all the others ships that are supposed to be fast.
Caelwrath	Posted - 2009.02.15 18:56:00 - [39] Seriously, Boost Arties, and specifically address Rapier/Huggy and this will help. Arties need slight bump on dps, better tracking and fixed clip. Rapier and Huggin need a slight bonus to web strength effectiveness thrown on top of everything. Currently with both speed tanking nerf AND web nerf they are the least effective Recons in the game. I would like to see a fix but OPowering them is not necessary - Say 5% web effectiveness /recon level. They won't stop things dead in their tracks like they used to, but with dual webs they will seriously have a chance of preventing a ship from getting back to the gate while the gang dps's it. 25% to a 60% web would be what using ccps math? This would also be a fix that would stop webs from being as effective on all ships similar to ecm on falcons - except not near as OP. They will still die fast as they cannot be speed tanked and cannot be armor tanked or even properly shield tanked but at least they will have a role.
Lasran Tekeal	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:01:00 - [40] Originally by: Kagura Nikon I am minmatar and must say a few poitns a pure bull312#!@#!@ Arties have MORE dps than rail! Their only real issues are very limited range and the very small clip. Solve the clip issue and all is ok. Typhoon is the BS can can field more tank and gank at same time. No other battleship can dish 900 dps with 7 SLOT TANK! THe recons and capitals although really need some love. Stop posting this bull**, the amount of training it takes to even fit the typhoon not to mention get the weapons to do that much damage is ****ed.
Psiri	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:38:00 - [41] Originally by: Lasran Tekeal Stop posting this bull**, the amount of training it takes to even fit the typhoon not to mention get the weapons to do that much damage is ****ed. Ok lets not get carried away here, it's only around 1-1,5m SP in missiles. Some Minnie pilots will also have many of the missile support skills aswell. However, I still don't think that the Phoon is a good BS.
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:50:00 - [42] Edited by: Karl Luckner on 15/02/2009 19:56:11 Add falloff bonus to tracking enhancers and tracking comps and Minmater are fixed. Ninjaedit: an bigger clipsize for artillery
Lasran Tekeal	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:54:00 - [43] Originally by: Psiri Originally by: Lasran Tekeal Stop posting this bull**, the amount of training it takes to even fit the typhoon not to mention get the weapons to do that much damage is ****ed. Ok lets not get carried away here, it's only around 1-1,5m SP in missiles. Some Minnie pilots will also have many of the missile support skills aswell. However, I still don't think that the Phoon is a good BS. He said with the 7 low point tank, that's the fitting with no damage mods, apart from needing mental fitting skills just to even get everything on, you also need all the gunnery skills to actually get that much out of it.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:59:00 - [44] Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 15/02/2009 19:58:50 Originally by: Lasran Tekeal you also need all the gunnery skills to actually get that much out of it. But you only need energy emission systems III for neuts hint hint.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.15 20:56:00 - [45] Whats the problem with having only medicore bses? all 3 bs are useable and ppl use those bses everyday. Medium arty is awesome , try out hurricane with max arty 2 sb+3gyro + tracking enhancers/comps and you will know that. Large arties only problem is the small clip for the 1400mm but thats all,and only in laggy situations. Alpha>>dps most of the time except pos/capital shooting. Ac-s are fine, the low tier ones are a lol to fit and the tier2-s are nice dps/falloff and still easy to fit. Rapier/huginn now not 70%of the gang will fly these but they are still have place in any gang. And still can solo most enemy ships.While I agree 60% webs are weak for these ships. Matar ships are still the fastest and smallest 2 awesome advantages over other races. What else do you need?
kor anon Amarr The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.02.15 20:59:00 - [46] Best frigate in game (rifter), best cruiser in game (rupture), best BC in game (hurricane), one of the best if not best close range BS in the game (typhoon). Yeah you slaves sure have it bad. However i do agree your capitals need a boost, but that is all
bettybettybettybetty	Posted - 2009.02.15 21:03:00 - [47] Originally by: kor anon Best frigate in game (rifter), best cruiser in game (rupture), best BC in game (hurricane), one of the best if not best close range BS in the game (typhoon). Yeah you slaves sure have it bad. However i do agree your capitals need a boost, but that is all Typhoon sucks, all our BS's are poo.
Lisento Slaven The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2009.02.15 21:18:00 - [48] Originally by: bettybettybettybetty Originally by: kor anon Best frigate in game (rifter), best cruiser in game (rupture), best BC in game (hurricane), one of the best if not best close range BS in the game (typhoon). Yeah you slaves sure have it bad. However i do agree your capitals need a boost, but that is all Typhoon sucks, all our BS's are poo. Typhoon is awesome, all our BS's are decent. --- Put in space whales!
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2009.02.15 21:59:00 - [49] Originally by: Naomi Knight Worthless information everyone already knows. The problem isn't medium guns, ships or anything non-battleship size and up. The current list of complaints in this thread are: 1) Large artillery are the worst out of all the weapon systems, possessing the worst tracking, DPS, optimal and clip size. You can't out damage, out range or out maneuver your opponent with these weapons, which makes it inferior in every way possible except damage type selection and alpha strike. All and all a decent hit-and-run gun, but you can't hit-and-run with a battleship. 2) Falloff is affected by TDs (why?) yet there are no scripts for tracking computers or bonuses on enhancers to increase falloff, so either we need falloff scripts/bonuses or TDs need their falloff inhibitor removed. 3) Minmatar battleships in general are under-powered because as the ship size and number of capsuleers increase, DPS and EHP are the only thing that matter. Battleships are basically slugfest boats in fleet fights where maneuverability and speed matter less than thickness of armor and the power of your guns, and here Matari battleships give up too much for too little; there has to be either some more damage potential with Matari battleships (boosting artillery some would do this) or an increase of agility/lowering of mass. And after all this time, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
Riaz Qaadir	Posted - 2009.02.15 22:29:00 - [50] A lot of exaggerations from both sides here, but then you donÆt get anything by saying ôwe need small tweaksö, got to make things sound world ending (am I right 2008 amarr bros?). Got 5 mins to kill so hereÆs my takeà Typhoon û ItÆs okay, its EFT stats are pretty good but hard to get in game (speaking as player who has a char specÆd for full t2 Typhoon). Torps only have 20km range, lose damage on anything thatÆs moving slightly and thatÆs smaller than 450 (huge battleship ie. rokh). ACÆs have rubbish base damage with the ROF bonus with no damage mods and lose damage from less range than blasters, itÆs the drone bay that rescues its damage. As far as its tank, only option is passive armour because it has rubbish armour HP, has more shield HP ffs, never mind trying to fit an active tank. Tempest û ItÆs below average at everything, something always does it better. ACÆs with ROF and DMG bonus with no damage mods only give around same DPS per weapon as a Siege launcher with no bonuses. With only 6 lows youÆre limited in how much you can increase that damage without making it a tin can tank. Sniping, your dps is ok but your range is worst, tracking is worst, and once you reload dps is worst. Why use the lowest range, worst tracking, lowest dps sniper? Maelstrom û ACÆs damage isnÆt bad here compared to ACÆs on Pest/Typhoon because you shield tank so always can fit 3 gyroÆs. Only problem I have is same as with Cyclone/Sleipnir/Claymore, bonus is best solo/tinygang yet to do solo/tinygang you need to tackle but that takes the same slots as your tank modsà oxymoron tank bonus. Cane û Fine when fit/used correctly. Cyclone û Apart from bonus (see above) an extra turret is needed. Sleipnir/Claymore û Fine apart from bonus. Vagabond û It was never a damage dealer compared to other races (sure EFT peak is nice but thatÆs at like 2km), was always the ôit can run awayö factor that made people like it in a world of blobbing. 4 mids on a shield tanker doesnÆt give you many options, a bit more base HP wouldnÆt hurt since its survivability is reduced (especially with warp scrams switching mwd off). Muninn û Suffers how most arty ships suffer except poor tracking is fixed by tracking bonus just leaving poor range/dps compared to other options. No real tanking options with 3 mids and 5 lows with two huge armour resistance holes. 2 misc highs are pretty pointless when sniping. Recons û Yeah they arenÆt as good due to web changes. Thing is reducing web performance has increased the effect of TPÆs. Rapier can sort of fit a 4 slot armour tank hence fit webs and TPÆs but Huginn with 3 lows is pretty poor, especially with missile changes. 1 low and cloaking vs 3 missilesà IÆll take Rapier everytime now. Change Huginn so its webbing performance is better by replacing TP bonus with web effectiveness bonus. Inties û Stilleto is fine at its tackling job. ClawÆs cpu and targeting range are rubbish. Never mind its mass is stupidly heavy for a minny ship leaving it very ungainly for a minny ship (but base speed compensates to give good mwd speed). AF û EveryoneÆs old favourite argument with the backwards bonuses. Either way could use more pg for arty setups, even 250s limit choices drastically with the usual minny arty issues (tracking/range/dps).
Compendium	Posted - 2009.02.15 22:56:00 - [51] This should have been put in the suggestions forum so there would be a chance that a developer would see this. Large projectiles do need some assistance. Tracking seems to be a little low for the turret that's supposed to have the best. Damage is also a bit low for how much powergrid/cpu these take up. Don't lower the fitting requirements, but increase their damage and tracking a bit.
bettybettybettybetty	Posted - 2009.02.15 22:57:00 - [52] Originally by: Lisento Slaven Originally by: bettybettybettybetty Originally by: kor anon Best frigate in game (rifter), best cruiser in game (rupture), best BC in game (hurricane), one of the best if not best close range BS in the game (typhoon). Yeah you slaves sure have it bad. However i do agree your capitals need a boost, but that is all Typhoon sucks, all our BS's are poo. Typhoon is awesome, all our BS's are decent. Nooooo all our BS's are meh and the phoon is the stupidest one.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.02.16 02:39:00 - [53] imo the problem is minmatar have 2 ways of fighting; skirmishing and hit and run and we are supposed to be good at utility. Things like capless guns, kiting enemies and whatnot work for skirmishing but are useless for their hit and run part. I've never really liked the skirmisher part of minmatar I've always worked towards their hit and run abilities and their utility but tbh I'd think we are going ok here. It's our hit and run area that needs work, everyone knows minmatar alpha has been nerfed till the point that the best alpha ship is now amarr. We can't do high dps over a short time either as we specialize in skirmishing wish is the exact opposite (staying in the area for a long time). The other part is getting out which needs high agility and high speed. Our advantage in these area's has been worn down a fair bit. The maelstrom is a good example having the lowest agility of all tier 3 bs's. Though I've never liked the maelstrom it works well for the skrimisher role but for things like alpha, agility, speed and utility it sucks in all of them and tbh feels more like a amarr ship with shield and projectiles rather than a minmatar ship. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Nexus Kinnon Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:08:00 - [54] postin'
Jalif Black Sinisters Freedom of Elbas	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:32:00 - [55] Hmmmm I don't fly bigger then BC size anyway. I started with minmatar and I am still quite rocking with it. I have notting to complain with it. Muninn rocks as a medium range sniper 70/80km. I just can't use it since I am solo 90% of the time and I am a pirate. I like minmatar but I can't wait until I can try another race for a chance.
ry ry	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:35:00 - [56] i can't fly caps, so i couldn't possibly comment on how much better the Nyx is than the Hel, or why being vertical isn't as good as having a single fully-bonused weapon system. with regards to sub cap ships - arties probably need a bit of work, the minmatar recons are pretty much the worst of the bunch, tempests are a bit ****. other than that they're not terrible. they've got the best tackly interceptor, good AFs, good t1 (f,c,bc), good commands. minmatar don't need a boost, they need tweaking.
Zaenna Dark4ngel	Posted - 2009.02.16 18:22:00 - [57] Adjust bonuses to rapier/huginn. They got double nerfed with QR - that's a bit too much to take. Adjust clip size and tracking for medium and large artillery. I am pure caldari and even I see this as obvious. For Caldari . . .well just don't touch my falcon and we can be friends!
Learol	Posted - 2009.02.16 18:52:00 - [58] Edited by: Learol on 16/02/2009 18:55:36 (yes, its an alt) IÆve been totally faithful to artillery for the last few years, recently got myself a phantasm faction cruiser, it out DPSs my Maelstrom somewhat epically *edit, this is only when target is moving at more than 10m/s and the maelstrom is closer than 150km
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners Electric Monkey Overlords	Posted - 2009.02.16 19:29:00 - [59] Originally by: Freighter Jjoe Interceptors - funny you would think Matar would excel here but not really. Meh dps but I do like the 4 slot stilleto for tackling. That would partially be because for some **ed up reason minmatar ceptors have the most mass of any ceptors. Also to the guy that said the nid is the best fleet carrier get a clue as has been said time and time again its bonus is far less useful than the resistance bonus of the archon or the chimera since those carriers get the same effect when being repped by another archon or chimera as a nid gets when being remote repped by a nid plus their own personal tank also gets a boost therefore: Chimera/archon repping chimera/archon +25% effectiveness of RRed HP = effectively +25% HP repped +25% effectiveness of local repped HP Nid repping Nid +25% HP remote repped On top of that because the nid has a **ty tank anyway in a mixed carrier fleet its going to often get called primary (that or a thanny depends on whats more important at the time removing DPS or breaking tank) so you cant even use the it will help the other carriers more reason since by the time they are being shot its dead.
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners Electric Monkey Overlords	Posted - 2009.02.16 19:58:00 - [60] Originally by: Kagura Nikon I am minmatar and must say a few poitns a pure bull312#!@#!@ Arties have MORE dps than rail! Their only real issues are very limited range and the very small clip. Solve the clip issue and all is ok. Typhoon is the BS can can field more tank and gank at same time. No other battleship can dish 900 dps with 7 SLOT TANK! The recons and capitals although really need some love. To get just under 900 dps with no damage mods fitted and max skill on a typhoon you have to fit 4 torp launchers 4 800mm autos and 5 ogre IIs using Rep Fleet EMP and CN Torps then you have just over 1000 PG to fit all your other slots oh and you will need a target painter to even get full damage on BS . However a mega will do around the same DPS with no fittings using neutrons with CN anti and 5xOgre II and have 4500 PG left for the rest of its fittings (same mids and lows) along with a spare high slot. The Neutrons on the mega will have better tracking than the autos on the phoon and because of the tiny range of torps even with max skills you will probably want to stay within 15kms of your target minimum with the phoon so the range wont be too diffrent. Add in mega has more base EHP and more base armor and finally you will need around 7mil more SP to get those stats with the typhoon due to the missile skills and things really dont look to good Alternatively if you want to look at tier 1 BS we could use the geddon instead of mega yes it does about 50 less DPS but then it can outrange a torp phoon it does admittedly have some cap issues and slot layout is -1 med +1 low but it also still uses 7mil less SP and the typhoons extra med is going to have to have TP anyway and DPS can be added by making that extra low slot a heat sink then geddon does more dps than phoon and still has more PG left to fit tanking mods. And since we are talking about tier 1 ships here we should be asking why on earth the first level of battleships for minmatar should require so many skillpoints to be even semi effective.

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