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Freighter Jjoe
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Posted - 2009.02.14 20:12:00 -
[1]
Seriously - they are not gimped but do need a little bit of love as compared to the other races.
First - I have 3 PvP main characters that range from 28mil to 75mil. I fly all races, and all ships except HIC's I have not seemed to train yet on any for some reason. Maybe its because I live in 0.0 and dont like the slowboat approach to dictoring.
Anyway - with the recent changes Matar is feeling a little gimped and here is a summary of my belief why:
Capitals - seriously *&^% you ccp. You make us train extra skills for dread and our carrier is sub par if no the worse.
Battleships - Matar has 3 of the most mediocre BS in the game. Typhoon cannot have dps and tank. Arty layouts do significantly lower dps then their counterparts in other races. Really I have stopped flying Matar BS in favor of my Amarr BS which frankly are rather nice atm. I alwasys like the DOMI and the Raven I find extremely versatile. Matar leaves me nothing I really WANT to fly as a BS.
BC - here is where the Matar actually do ok. I think the Cane is a good ship although it is easily outdamaged and out tanked by other offerings. In comparrison, Harbinger is awesome dps and range, Drake can be great tank and useful dps if you know how to load it out, and Brutix is king of dps and very cheap. So Matar holds it sown here but I would not say it is number 1 by any means or length.
Command - ok this is the one ship that I think Matar has some of the nicest offerings. That or Amarr tbh. I would say Gallente need a small boost here. I like the vulture too.
HAC - Vaga is still fastest but cannot really speed tank anymore. Really I find myself preferring cerb or Zel these days. Munin is good as a sniper, but beam zel and long range cerb generally better. I would say Matar is ok here.
Recon - PLEASE. Rapier and Huggin are just lame now. They really depended on speed tank. And if taking that away from them was not enough CCP nerfed webs making these ships even less useful. Maybe give them a bonus to web effectiveness? Just a slight one ???
In comparrison, Falcon is OP - we all get it. I can jam 3-4 tagets consistantly with one. Curse is still fun and does its job though it too with the speed nerf is more frail. Arazu and Lach are more useful now and likely you have noticed one locking you down recently.
Interceptors - funny you would think Matar would excel here but not really. Meh dps but I do like the 4 slot stilleto for tackling.
AF - Ok I actually like the Jaguar.
t1 cruisers - dont really fly much anymore but my favorites are arbitrator and vexor, and rax I guess.
t1 frigates - shuttles with dps I guess.
CCP - a little love for our chewing gum and tape race please.
Fix Matarr Recons and BS as a start. And while you are at it - a little love for Gallente Command SHips even though I will not fly em -
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LadyLubU2
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.14 20:17:00 -
[2]
Edited by: LadyLubU2 on 14/02/2009 20:17:24
I agree. Minnie do need some love, mostly in the arty department..
And in before NightmareX (because LOL UR A NOOB IF U DONT LIKES TEMPEST!!!)
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Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2009.02.14 20:28:00 -
[3]
You honestly do not think the Typhoon and Maelstrom are good? Like...seriously...you do not think they are good? What are you talking about?
Capitals they have always been gimped that is for sure. With battleships they have 2 good out of 3 and that is not bad at all. The tempest is...definitely awkward with the phoon and maelstrom in existence though.
BC I still do not like the Cyclone and never have. But they aren't bad. Command are fine. The Muninn could use a little re-thinking but not much. Vagabond still functions just fine. The recon lineup isn't spammed as crazy as it was before but it is still very useful although the tank has been nerfed. I'm slightly surprised there have not been many re-thinks on how to tank them even on the forums with the EFT junkies.
Small ships and T1 seem fine to me.
What do you want them to fix about the battleships anyways? The problems with artillery are with artillery across the board, not just battleship size. So that is not a good reason. Artillery needs to be fixed on its own level and then tweaked at appropriate sizes. The Maelstrom and Typhoon are awesome close range "I'm gonna eat you" ships.
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Put in space whales!
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2009.02.14 20:32:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Freighter Jjoe
Capitals - seriously *&^% you ccp. You make us train extra skills for dread and our carrier is sub par if no the worse.
Best fleet carrier, due to a great bonus.
Quote:
Typhoon cannot have dps and tank.
Typhoon can get a 7 slot tank and nearly push 1K DPS. With skills it is probably one of the best close range BSes in the game.
Quote:
I alwasys like the DOMI and the Raven I find extremely versatile. Matar leaves me nothing I really WANT to fly as a BS.
Honestly, the Typhoon is more versatile than a Domi. Guns, Missiles, Drones, Neuts or RR take your pick.
Quote:
HAC - Vaga is still fastest but cannot really speed tank anymore. Really I find myself preferring cerb or Zel these days. Munin is good as a sniper, but beam zel and long range cerb generally better. I would say Matar is ok here.
The Cerb/Zealot really don't compare well to the Vagabond, they don't fill the same purpose. Munin is pretty terrible however.
Quote:
Recon - PLEASE. Rapier and Huggin are just lame now. They really depended on speed tank. And if taking that away from them was not enough CCP nerfed webs making these ships even less useful. Maybe give them a bonus to web effectiveness? Just a slight one ???
Speed tanking is easy when you can web things from 40km away. The Web nerf does suck, but these ships are far from being useless. A target painter or two in a gang is always a good idea and they have a nice bonus to that as well.
Quote:
In comparrison, Falcon is OP - we all get it. I can jam 3-4 tagets consistantly with one.
Wouldn't be a proper post without a falcon whine. Not sure how this comes into boost Matari though...
Quote:
Interceptors - funny you would think Matar would excel here but not really. Meh dps but I do like the 4 slot stilleto for tackling.
Well Interceptors and DPS are not really meant to be mentioned in the same breath. The Claw can make a decent dogfighting interceptor, though its locking range woes prevent it from excelling elsewhere
4 mid slots and a warp disruptor bonus makes the Stilleto VERY nice, perhaps one of the best tackling interceptors around.
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2009.02.14 20:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
The Cerb/Zealot really don't compare well to the Vagabond, they don't fill the same purpose. Munin is pretty terrible however.
Speed tanking is easy when you can web things from 40km away. The Web nerf does suck, but these ships are far from being useless. A target painter or two in a gang is always a good idea and they have a nice bonus to that as well.
Agree with most you said, but these 2 above.. no. Muninn is good, just not utilized in a proper way. It needs range, it needs space, and it needs alot of mobility. If you're a roaming HAC gang, this ship is great against blobbing defenders. Think pre-nano-nerf style fighting.
As for the Rapier, in the case you talk about, you assume it has the ability to stay at 40km. Well, it's a force recon, it's best used in small gangs. In that kind of gang the Rapier is the natural tackler. Pure combat recon gang for example, the natural tackler is ofc the Arazu. Second to it tho, is the Rapier. As it is right now the Rapier is paper thin and can't pin things down for a gang to support it, as most things will rip that Rapier apart and them warp off before the rest even lands. It could use some survivability boost. Not to mention that a dual web with a 24km disruptor today means the Rapier will die to any ship that has MWD fitted.. so you want it to go web at <9km while scrambling? Or permarun mwd while webbing at 20-24km?
The simple solution to the Rapier is to never tackle with it and only run in bigger gangs, but as I said, then the Huginn is actually a good option. Or, ironicly, the Muninn.
I fly all sub-bs minmatar with my alts, not particulary happy with the Rapier as it is, as for the rest (all frig- and bc hull, and all cruisers bar that one combat recon - but it's a necessity as force recons can't compare) I think minmatar is good.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2009.02.14 21:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Misanth
As for the Rapier, in the case you talk about, you assume it has the ability to stay at 40km. Well, it's a force recon, it's best used in small gangs. In that kind of gang the Rapier is the natural tackler. Pure combat recon gang for example, the natural tackler is ofc the Arazu. Second to it tho, is the Rapier. As it is right now the Rapier is paper thin and can't pin things down for a gang to support it, as most things will rip that Rapier apart and them warp off before the rest even lands. It could use some survivability boost. Not to mention that a dual web with a 24km disruptor today means the Rapier will die to any ship that has MWD fitted.. so you want it to go web at <9km while scrambling? Or permarun mwd while webbing at 20-24km?
I don't quite follow how the Rapier would die to an MWD ship, not even a dual webbed interceptor could catch a MWDing Rapier.
Yeah, I'd say a Rapier would have be in a bigger gang. A role I think it shines in is just webbing and target painting and letting other ships handle pointing. You'll be giving a sizable boost to tracking and damage by dual webbing and target painting targets.
The Munin in my eyes really only has its place using Artilley, and I think there are better 60-100km HAC snipers out there. If you want ACs + armor tank, the Fleet Issue Stabber is really where its at in my opinion.
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.02.14 21:39:00 -
[7]
In my Opinion:
1. Artilery, DPS and Range sucks and the Alpha isn¦t good enught to compensate(also the small Clips are just pain). Dubble Clipsize and higher Alpha(and a little bit more DPS) in my Optinion.
2. Tempest, not realy shure, 7. Turret, bigger Damage Bonus, more Dronebay(not actualy Bandwide but Dronebay to become more flexible). It not needs all of this but something more than it got now. Also better lock Range, serious it is the main Mini Sniper BS with a terrible base Lockrange to begin with. 
3. Huggin/Rapier, now lack the stopingpower(what makes it actualy quite easy to take them down solo combined with her lower speed).
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.02.14 21:41:00 -
[8]
OP is a numbnut, disregarding T1 frigates as 'shuttles with DPS' just goes to show this. Minmatar is strong overall but really shines sub-cruiser IMO, as for their Recons yes they are a bit weak but we ain't exactly seeing alot of Gallente recons either.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.02.14 22:24:00 -
[9]
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/02/2009 22:26:28
Originally by: LadyLubU2
Edited by: LadyLubU2 on 14/02/2009 20:17:24
I agree. Minnie do need some love, mostly in the arty department..
And in before NightmareX (because LOL UR A NOOB IF U DONT LIKES TEMPEST!!!)
I'm not saying your a noob if you don't like the Tempest. I'm only saying your a noob if you think the close range fitted Tempest is crap, because it's not crap, at all.
Seriously, the Autocannon Tempest is totally FINE.
Those who say it is crap are either pretty crap at flying the ship, or they are using an UBERSUPERDUPERFAILFAILFAIL setup on the ship.
But i'm not gonna say anything about the other Minmatar ships, because those ships is not my strong part in EVE.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2009.02.14 22:29:00 -
[10]
-Typhoon's a good ship, but it'd be nice if you concentrate on a single weapon system.
-I like the theory behind the Pest's design, but because large ACs don't do much damage, its true potential isn't fully reached.
-Mael's alright in theory, but active shield tanking has such a limited niche that it would be better off with a different bonus. Optimal bonus would be nice so Matari could actually compete with Amarr and Caldari in snipefests (though lolArty amirite?)
-Vaga's still awesome. Sold both my Zealots but I can't let go of my crazy dragon ship.
-Huginn could use a web strength bonus instead of missile damage bonus. That would make it better than the Rapier in some areas, while the Rapier would still be very useful thanks to the cloak.
In summary, boost ACs, boost Arties, boost Huginn.
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yrknat
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Posted - 2009.02.14 22:35:00 -
[11]
tbh, just take fusion ammo (tied in second for damage with plasma), give it the same total damage as multifreq & antimatter. all it would take.
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Sarkiss
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.02.14 22:40:00 -
[12]
t1 cruisers - Rupture is a monster
t1 frigates - Rifter is also a monter.
and the cyclone is a sex bomb. nuff said
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Raniss
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Posted - 2009.02.14 23:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/02/2009 22:26:28
Originally by: LadyLubU2
Edited by: LadyLubU2 on 14/02/2009 20:17:24
I agree. Minnie do need some love, mostly in the arty department..
And in before NightmareX (because LOL UR A NOOB IF U DONT LIKES TEMPEST!!!)
I'm not saying your a noob if you don't like the Tempest. I'm only saying your a noob if you think the close range fitted Tempest is crap, because it's not crap, at all.
Seriously, the Autocannon Tempest is totally FINE.
Those who say it is crap are either pretty crap at flying the ship, or they are using an UBERSUPERDUPERFAILFAILFAIL setup on the ship.
But i'm not gonna say anything about the other Minmatar ships, because those ships is not my strong part in EVE.
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TimMc
Gallente
Extradition
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Posted - 2009.02.14 23:34:00 -
[14]
Artillery, Dread and BS are only problems for Minmatar. Else they are great.
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Deathnail
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Posted - 2009.02.14 23:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
-Typhoon's a good ship, but it'd be nice if you concentrate on a single weapon system.
-I like the theory behind the Pest's design, but because large ACs don't do much damage, its true potential isn't fully reached.
-Mael's alright in theory, but active shield tanking has such a limited niche that it would be better off with a different bonus. Optimal bonus would be nice so Matari could actually compete with Amarr and Caldari in snipefests (though lolArty amirite?)
-Vaga's still awesome. Sold both my Zealots but I can't let go of my crazy dragon ship.
-Huginn could use a web strength bonus instead of missile damage bonus. That would make it better than the Rapier in some areas, while the Rapier would still be very useful thanks to the cloak.
In summary, boost ACs, boost Arties, boost Huginn.
^^ This (and boost Rapier). Munin needs a little something even as a snipe hac, but boosting Arties would do that.
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Lasran Tekeal
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Posted - 2009.02.14 23:43:00 -
[16]
Mael and tempest are solid ships. but the phoon is ****ty. "Bu bu but it can be one of the best" i hear you cry, well yes it can be but only if you have all level 5 fitting, armour and gunnery skills, it needs to be fixed because atm its not nearly worth the training time for what you get out of it. |
Cheshire Katt
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Posted - 2009.02.14 23:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/02/2009 22:26:28
Originally by: LadyLubU2
Edited by: LadyLubU2 on 14/02/2009 20:17:24
I agree. Minnie do need some love, mostly in the arty department..
And in before NightmareX (because LOL UR A NOOB IF U DONT LIKES TEMPEST!!!)
I'm not saying your a noob if you don't like the Tempest. I'm only saying your a noob if you think the close range fitted Tempest is crap, because it's not crap, at all.
Seriously, the Autocannon Tempest is totally FINE.
Those who say it is crap are either pretty crap at flying the ship, or they are using an UBERSUPERDUPERFAILFAILFAIL setup on the ship.
But i'm not gonna say anything about the other Minmatar ships, because those ships is not my strong part in EVE.
Serious question.
Could you please share this fit for the Tempest? I'm just about able to fit T2 ACs so I will finally be able to entirely T2 fit the Temp and would love to get a good close range setup.
Thanks!
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2009.02.14 23:47:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 14/02/2009 23:48:31
Originally by: Deathnail
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
-Typhoon's a good ship, but it'd be nice if you concentrate on a single weapon system.
-I like the theory behind the Pest's design, but because large ACs don't do much damage, its true potential isn't fully reached.
-Mael's alright in theory, but active shield tanking has such a limited niche that it would be better off with a different bonus. Optimal bonus would be nice so Matari could actually compete with Amarr and Caldari in snipefests (though lolArty amirite?)
-Vaga's still awesome. Sold both my Zealots but I can't let go of my crazy dragon ship.
-Huginn could use a web strength bonus instead of missile damage bonus. That would make it better than the Rapier in some areas, while the Rapier would still be very useful thanks to the cloak.
In summary, boost ACs, boost Arties, boost Huginn.
^^ This (and boost Rapier). Munin needs a little something even as a snipe hac, but boosting Arties would do that.
Woops, forgot the Muninn... thx.
Edit: I'm such a failboat at quoting.
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Bernard Bolzano
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Posted - 2009.02.14 23:53:00 -
[19]
i am all with the minmatar here. why does my 8high/5mids/6low Tempest not outdamage/tank/ewar the 8high/3mid/8low geddon ????
unfair i say!
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yrknat
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Posted - 2009.02.14 23:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cheshire Katt
Serious question.
Could you please share this fit for the Tempest? I'm just about able to fit T2 ACs so I will finally be able to entirely T2 fit the Temp and would love to get a good close range setup.
Thanks!
pretty sure its the standard plate AC pest with a multispec ecm in the 5th mid. id rather use eccm, TD, second web, a 9km scram, sensor booster instead but watever.
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.02.15 00:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Originally by: Misanth
As for the Rapier, in the case you talk about, you assume it has the ability to stay at 40km. Well, it's a force recon, it's best used in small gangs. In that kind of gang the Rapier is the natural tackler. Pure combat recon gang for example, the natural tackler is ofc the Arazu. Second to it tho, is the Rapier. As it is right now the Rapier is paper thin and can't pin things down for a gang to support it, as most things will rip that Rapier apart and them warp off before the rest even lands. It could use some survivability boost. Not to mention that a dual web with a 24km disruptor today means the Rapier will die to any ship that has MWD fitted.. so you want it to go web at <9km while scrambling? Or permarun mwd while webbing at 20-24km?
I don't quite follow how the Rapier would die to an MWD ship, not even a dual webbed interceptor could catch a MWDing Rapier.
Yeah, I'd say a Rapier would have be in a bigger gang. A role I think it shines in is just webbing and target painting and letting other ships handle pointing. You'll be giving a sizable boost to tracking and damage by dual webbing and target painting targets.
The Munin in my eyes really only has its place using Artilley, and I think there are better 60-100km HAC snipers out there. If you want ACs + armor tank, the Fleet Issue Stabber is really where its at in my opinion.
I used to MWD-Gank Rapiers all the time with my Vagabond before the nano-nerf. I'm pretty sure I can still do it, only need point long enough to get through most Rapiers' 7k effective hit points (one LSE)
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Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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Corstaad
Minmatar
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2009.02.15 00:23:00 -
[22]
Believe what yah want but Minny BS's are average at best. The real secret is how the tempest experts have found ways to not to get on killboards. Sorry but this isn't early 2007. I
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.02.15 00:33:00 -
[23]
Signing in to say I think minmatar are somewhat underrated and still tons of win. I think they could use some improvement on things that were recently nerfed, but nothing sticks out as game breaking to me as a minmatar pilot (on all three accounts)
I don't like my Rapier/Huginn a whole lot anymore since they have a hard time keeping something pinned without 3 webs, which pretty much means no more solo setups  (and by that I mean crawling back to gate dual webbed is f-ing easy. had a sleipnir webbed 5x and he still made it to gate 4-5 times, no problem...)
I still fly my Vaga, I like the battleships though I would love a bit more DPS from the autopest. Maelstrom is my favorite small non-RR gang damage dealer... I still like the phoon, I just see too many improper setups for it, and my missile skills are sub-par.
I don't know about caps, but I do know they go down hard... yay weakest link.
BC's if you say Brutix is king of DPS ya dunno my Cane setup, Brutix is only king on EFT but getting it into range and actually hitting for the amounts of DPS EFT tells you is a different story. I get Explo damage and near 650-700 dps out of a gank cane, put projectile ambits on it and it throws RF EMP a good distance too. Cyclone has it's place, I fly it for lols... but same with the ferox here
T1 cruisers - you don't even mention the stabber or rupture, probably two of the most common super cheap pirate ships.
T1 frigs - you fail, Rifter and Vigil are win. And yes I have kills to prove this.
Meh... poorly written attempt at getting attention for the hardest race to train and fly. I could pick it apart more, but not really in the mood. \o/
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Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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ZigZag Joe
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.15 03:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: TimMc
Artillery, Dread and BS are only problems for Minmatar. Else they are great.
This is pretty much it.
Phoon can do some sick damage, and is good as it is (though another missile slot would be sweet); however large projectiles blow chunks damage-wise (tempest, mael), the dread is a laughingstock, and arty is poor all-around. Some of the cruisers (rapier/huggin, vaga mayhaps) could do with small changes but they are at least functional.
And yes, the Cyclone/Sleipnir are sex bombs. <3
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.02.15 03:28:00 -
[25]
I think the only "real" problem right now is artillery, most everything else is pretty good and balanced against the other races (although I think the Amarr tracking buff nullified our advantage in turrets, really now that was just crazy).
And the dread, you can go with a comparable buffer and better sustained tank (yay?) with horrid damage with an armor tank, or you can slap on a shield tank and have sub par damage still. I'd rather see more CPU on the dread to let a shield tank happen without double co-procs, take away powergrid and there you go, a Matari-styled ship with some decent damage.
And after all this time, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
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Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Duragon Pioneer Group
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.15 03:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/02/2009 22:26:28
Originally by: LadyLubU2
Edited by: LadyLubU2 on 14/02/2009 20:17:24
I agree. Minnie do need some love, mostly in the arty department..
And in before NightmareX (because LOL UR A NOOB IF U DONT LIKES TEMPEST!!!)
I'm not saying your a noob if you don't like the Tempest. I'm only saying your a noob if you think the close range fitted Tempest is crap, because it's not crap, at all.
Seriously, the Autocannon Tempest is totally FINE.
Those who say it is crap are either pretty crap at flying the ship, or they are using an UBERSUPERDUPERFAILFAILFAIL setup on the ship.
But i'm not gonna say anything about the other Minmatar ships, because those ships is not my strong part in EVE.
I wouldn't say tempest is bad. Just that x is better for X and y is better for Y while z is better for 2. a ship that tries to do xyz just doesn't seem to fit in most pvp trends today(which is a shame).
-- stuff -- |
Psiri
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Posted - 2009.02.15 03:40:00 -
[27]
What's the problem with AC's? Would you trade them versus blasters or torps, I sure wouldn't.
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Fire Ants
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
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Posted - 2009.02.15 05:18:00 -
[28]
I have yet to find a single ship in this game that someone hasn't already complained about at great length.
That's why I pick my ships based purely on their appearance and then do my best to not totally suck in them.
Seriously, I'm gonna be all up in the Loki, split weapons and all.
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Internet Spaceships perfectly strikes your Sense of Humor, wrecking for Serious Business.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.02.15 05:39:00 -
[29]
Originally by: TimMc
Artillery, Dread and BS are only problems for Minmatar. Else they are great.
This.
I could even agree to assigning the claw +2km locking range. There's something wrong with a ceptor that can't use a t2 warp disruptor. Other than that they're plenty of fine.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 354465
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Absalom Marathon
Incarnation of Evil
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Posted - 2009.02.15 05:42:00 -
[30]
Minnie need love with one thing sub cap and that's the battleships. Or rather, the large artillery. Other than that I think they're good. Perhaps not FOTM any more but they are good enough.
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Element 22
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.15 06:01:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Corstaad
Believe what yah want but Minny BS's are average at best. The real secret is how the tempest experts have found ways to not to get on killboards. Sorry but this isn't early 2007. I
Ninja tempests! I knew it! No wonder they're never on the killboard! Ninjas wouldn't want their presence to be adver
Signatures are annoying...kinda like me. |
Fire Ants
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
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Posted - 2009.02.15 06:30:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Element 22
Ninja tempests! I knew it! No wonder they're never on the killboard! Ninjas wouldn't want their presence to be adver
Ha! Surely you jest. Why, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever hea
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Internet Spaceships perfectly strikes your Sense of Humor, wrecking for Serious Business.
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.02.15 06:34:00 -
[33]
Haha, very funny guys. Do you honestly expect me to be
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.02.15 09:22:00 -
[34]
I am minmatar and must say a few poitns a pure bull312#!@#!@
Arties have MORE dps than rail! Their only real issues are very limited range and the very small clip. Solve the clip issue and all is ok.
Typhoon is the BS can can field more tank and gank at same time. No other battleship can dish 900 dps with 7 SLOT TANK!
THe recons and capitals although really need some love.
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Polinus
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.15 09:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Fire Ants
I have yet to find a single ship in this game that someone hasn't already complained about at great length.
That's why I pick my ships based purely on their appearance and then do my best to not totally suck in them.
Seriously, I'm gonna be all up in the Loki, split weapons and all.
try findign people sayign the revelation or moros suck. OR that the falcon suck.
Hard but not impossible to find people that think zealot sucks. try to find people that say the current apoc sux (the old one was the godfather of all whined ships)
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BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.02.15 09:50:00 -
[36]
Edited by: BiggestT on 15/02/2009 09:51:57
What IS the OP whinging about?
I admit that bs projectiles are a tad meh but thats about it.
Try flying Caldari for once, where you have no slots for ewar + tank, crappy grid (any non-fail setup needs an rcu), have mediocre dps and are often only truely effective when in some kind of rarely used extremist niche.
Sure theres some expceptions e.g. falcon, but thats only because its extreme niche suddenly suits the EvE metagame.
edit: And with all this said and done I dont think Caldari need a boost, some ships need boosts/balancing but these exist in every race.
EVE history
t2 precisions |
Burn Mac
Minmatar
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.02.15 13:58:00 -
[37]
I have a few problems with Minnie ships and weapon systems (i cannot comment on caps since i dont fly em)
Our falloff gets tracking disrupted but it doesnt get boosted by a tracking computer or tracking enhancer (thats bad).
hmm thats about it, i love my rifter,rupture,stabber and hurricane even though i dont pilot the hurricane yet.
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To mare
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Posted - 2009.02.15 14:12:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Arties have MORE dps than rail! Their only real issues are very limited range and the very small clip. Solve the clip issue and all is ok.
Lies artillery have LESS base dps than rails, and this is fine, the only thing that arty need is to make their alpha worth again.
other things:
give minmatar a T1 ammo that do equal base damage to AM for blaster and MF for laser.
switch typhoon and tempest shield & armor HPs.
REDUCE MASS ON OUR SHIPS, its not possible that minmatars paper ships have the same mass of amarr ships, this go at least for the typhoon, tempest, stabber, vagabond and all the others ships that are supposed to be fast.
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Caelwrath
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Posted - 2009.02.15 18:56:00 -
[39]
Seriously,
Boost Arties, and specifically address Rapier/Huggy and this will help. Arties need slight bump on dps, better tracking and fixed clip.
Rapier and Huggin need a slight bonus to web strength effectiveness thrown on top of everything. Currently with both speed tanking nerf AND web nerf they are the least effective Recons in the game.
I would like to see a fix but OPowering them is not necessary - Say 5% web effectiveness /recon level. They won't stop things dead in their tracks like they used to, but with dual webs they will seriously have a chance of preventing a ship from getting back to the gate while the gang dps's it. 25% to a 60% web would be what using ccps math?
This would also be a fix that would stop webs from being as effective on all ships similar to ecm on falcons - except not near as OP.
They will still die fast as they cannot be speed tanked and cannot be armor tanked or even properly shield tanked but at least they will have a role.
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Lasran Tekeal
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Posted - 2009.02.15 19:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
I am minmatar and must say a few poitns a pure bull312#!@#!@
Arties have MORE dps than rail! Their only real issues are very limited range and the very small clip. Solve the clip issue and all is ok.
Typhoon is the BS can can field more tank and gank at same time. No other battleship can dish 900 dps with 7 SLOT TANK!
THe recons and capitals although really need some love.
Stop posting this bull****, the amount of training it takes to even fit the typhoon not to mention get the weapons to do that much damage is ******ed.
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.02.15 19:38:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Lasran Tekeal
Stop posting this bull****, the amount of training it takes to even fit the typhoon not to mention get the weapons to do that much damage is ******ed.
Ok lets not get carried away here, it's only around 1-1,5m SP in missiles. Some Minnie pilots will also have many of the missile support skills aswell.
However, I still don't think that the Phoon is a good BS.
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Karl Luckner
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Posted - 2009.02.15 19:50:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Karl Luckner on 15/02/2009 19:56:11
Add falloff bonus to tracking enhancers and tracking comps and Minmater are fixed.
Ninjaedit: an bigger clipsize for artillery
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Lasran Tekeal
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Posted - 2009.02.15 19:54:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Psiri
Originally by: Lasran Tekeal
Stop posting this bull****, the amount of training it takes to even fit the typhoon not to mention get the weapons to do that much damage is ******ed.
Ok lets not get carried away here, it's only around 1-1,5m SP in missiles. Some Minnie pilots will also have many of the missile support skills aswell.
However, I still don't think that the Phoon is a good BS.
He said with the 7 low point tank, that's the fitting with no damage mods, apart from needing mental fitting skills just to even get everything on, you also need all the gunnery skills to actually get that much out of it.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2009.02.15 19:59:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 15/02/2009 19:58:50
Originally by: Lasran Tekeal
you also need all the gunnery skills to actually get that much out of it.
But you only need energy emission systems III for neuts hint hint.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.15 20:56:00 -
[45]
Whats the problem with having only medicore bses? all 3 bs are useable and ppl use those bses everyday.
Medium arty is awesome , try out hurricane with max arty 2 sb+3gyro + tracking enhancers/comps and you will know that. Large arties only problem is the small clip for the 1400mm but thats all,and only in laggy situations. Alpha>>dps most of the time except pos/capital shooting.
Ac-s are fine, the low tier ones are a lol to fit and the tier2-s are nice dps/falloff and still easy to fit.
Rapier/huginn now not 70%of the gang will fly these but they are still have place in any gang. And still can solo most enemy ships.While I agree 60% webs are weak for these ships.
Matar ships are still the fastest and smallest 2 awesome advantages over other races.
What else do you need?
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kor anon
Amarr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.02.15 20:59:00 -
[46]
Best frigate in game (rifter), best cruiser in game (rupture), best BC in game (hurricane), one of the best if not best close range BS in the game (typhoon). Yeah you slaves sure have it bad. However i do agree your capitals need a boost, but that is all
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bettybettybettybetty
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Posted - 2009.02.15 21:03:00 -
[47]
Originally by: kor anon
Best frigate in game (rifter), best cruiser in game (rupture), best BC in game (hurricane), one of the best if not best close range BS in the game (typhoon). Yeah you slaves sure have it bad. However i do agree your capitals need a boost, but that is all
Typhoon sucks, all our BS's are poo.
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Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2009.02.15 21:18:00 -
[48]
Originally by: bettybettybettybetty
Originally by: kor anon
Best frigate in game (rifter), best cruiser in game (rupture), best BC in game (hurricane), one of the best if not best close range BS in the game (typhoon). Yeah you slaves sure have it bad. However i do agree your capitals need a boost, but that is all
Typhoon sucks, all our BS's are poo.
Typhoon is awesome, all our BS's are decent.
---
Put in space whales!
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.02.15 21:59:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Worthless information everyone already knows.
The problem isn't medium guns, ships or anything non-battleship size and up. The current list of complaints in this thread are:
1) Large artillery are the worst out of all the weapon systems, possessing the worst tracking, DPS, optimal and clip size. You can't out damage, out range or out maneuver your opponent with these weapons, which makes it inferior in every way possible except damage type selection and alpha strike. All and all a decent hit-and-run gun, but you can't hit-and-run with a battleship.
2) Falloff is affected by TDs (why?) yet there are no scripts for tracking computers or bonuses on enhancers to increase falloff, so either we need falloff scripts/bonuses or TDs need their falloff inhibitor removed.
3) Minmatar battleships in general are under-powered because as the ship size and number of capsuleers increase, DPS and EHP are the only thing that matter. Battleships are basically slugfest boats in fleet fights where maneuverability and speed matter less than thickness of armor and the power of your guns, and here Matari battleships give up too much for too little; there has to be either some more damage potential with Matari battleships (boosting artillery some would do this) or an increase of agility/lowering of mass.
And after all this time, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
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Riaz Qaadir
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Posted - 2009.02.15 22:29:00 -
[50]
A lot of exaggerations from both sides here, but then you donÆt get anything by saying ôwe need small tweaksö, got to make things sound world ending (am I right 2008 amarr bros?). Got 5 mins to kill so hereÆs my takeà
Typhoon û ItÆs okay, its EFT stats are pretty good but hard to get in game (speaking as player who has a char specÆd for full t2 Typhoon). Torps only have 20km range, lose damage on anything thatÆs moving slightly and thatÆs smaller than 450 (huge battleship ie. rokh). ACÆs have rubbish base damage with the ROF bonus with no damage mods and lose damage from less range than blasters, itÆs the drone bay that rescues its damage. As far as its tank, only option is passive armour because it has rubbish armour HP, has more shield HP ffs, never mind trying to fit an active tank.
Tempest û ItÆs below average at everything, something always does it better. ACÆs with ROF and DMG bonus with no damage mods only give around same DPS per weapon as a Siege launcher with no bonuses. With only 6 lows youÆre limited in how much you can increase that damage without making it a tin can tank. Sniping, your dps is ok but your range is worst, tracking is worst, and once you reload dps is worst. Why use the lowest range, worst tracking, lowest dps sniper?
Maelstrom û ACÆs damage isnÆt bad here compared to ACÆs on Pest/Typhoon because you shield tank so always can fit 3 gyroÆs. Only problem I have is same as with Cyclone/Sleipnir/Claymore, bonus is best solo/tinygang yet to do solo/tinygang you need to tackle but that takes the same slots as your tank modsà oxymoron tank bonus.
Cane û Fine when fit/used correctly. Cyclone û Apart from bonus (see above) an extra turret is needed.
Sleipnir/Claymore û Fine apart from bonus.
Vagabond û It was never a damage dealer compared to other races (sure EFT peak is nice but thatÆs at like 2km), was always the ôit can run awayö factor that made people like it in a world of blobbing. 4 mids on a shield tanker doesnÆt give you many options, a bit more base HP wouldnÆt hurt since its survivability is reduced (especially with warp scrams switching mwd off).
Muninn û Suffers how most arty ships suffer except poor tracking is fixed by tracking bonus just leaving poor range/dps compared to other options. No real tanking options with 3 mids and 5 lows with two huge armour resistance holes. 2 misc highs are pretty pointless when sniping.
Recons û Yeah they arenÆt as good due to web changes. Thing is reducing web performance has increased the effect of TPÆs. Rapier can sort of fit a 4 slot armour tank hence fit webs and TPÆs but Huginn with 3 lows is pretty poor, especially with missile changes. 1 low and cloaking vs 3 missilesà IÆll take Rapier everytime now. Change Huginn so its webbing performance is better by replacing TP bonus with web effectiveness bonus.
Inties û Stilleto is fine at its tackling job. ClawÆs cpu and targeting range are rubbish. Never mind its mass is stupidly heavy for a minny ship leaving it very ungainly for a minny ship (but base speed compensates to give good mwd speed).
AF û EveryoneÆs old favourite argument with the backwards bonuses. Either way could use more pg for arty setups, even 250s limit choices drastically with the usual minny arty issues (tracking/range/dps).
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Compendium
|
Posted - 2009.02.15 22:56:00 -
[51]
This should have been put in the suggestions forum so there would be a chance that a developer would see this. Large projectiles do need some assistance. Tracking seems to be a little low for the turret that's supposed to have the best. Damage is also a bit low for how much powergrid/cpu these take up. Don't lower the fitting requirements, but increase their damage and tracking a bit.
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bettybettybettybetty
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Posted - 2009.02.15 22:57:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
Originally by: bettybettybettybetty
Originally by: kor anon
Best frigate in game (rifter), best cruiser in game (rupture), best BC in game (hurricane), one of the best if not best close range BS in the game (typhoon). Yeah you slaves sure have it bad. However i do agree your capitals need a boost, but that is all
Typhoon sucks, all our BS's are poo.
Typhoon is awesome, all our BS's are decent.
Nooooo all our BS's are meh and the phoon is the stupidest one.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.02.16 02:39:00 -
[53]
imo the problem is minmatar have 2 ways of fighting; skirmishing and hit and run and we are supposed to be good at utility.
Things like capless guns, kiting enemies and whatnot work for skirmishing but are useless for their hit and run part. I've never really liked the skirmisher part of minmatar I've always worked towards their hit and run abilities and their utility but tbh I'd think we are going ok here.
It's our hit and run area that needs work, everyone knows minmatar alpha has been nerfed till the point that the best alpha ship is now amarr. We can't do high dps over a short time either as we specialize in skirmishing wish is the exact opposite (staying in the area for a long time).
The other part is getting out which needs high agility and high speed. Our advantage in these area's has been worn down a fair bit. The maelstrom is a good example having the lowest agility of all tier 3 bs's. Though I've never liked the maelstrom it works well for the skrimisher role but for things like alpha, agility, speed and utility it sucks in all of them and tbh feels more like a amarr ship with shield and projectiles rather than a minmatar ship.
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2009.02.16 11:08:00 -
[54]
postin'
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Jalif
Black Sinisters
Freedom of Elbas
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Posted - 2009.02.16 11:32:00 -
[55]
Hmmmm
I don't fly bigger then BC size anyway. I started with minmatar and I am still quite rocking with it. I have notting to complain with it. Muninn rocks as a medium range sniper 70/80km. I just can't use it since I am solo 90% of the time and I am a pirate.
I like minmatar but I can't wait until I can try another race for a chance.
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ry ry
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Posted - 2009.02.16 11:35:00 -
[56]
i can't fly caps, so i couldn't possibly comment on how much better the Nyx is than the Hel, or why being vertical isn't as good as having a single fully-bonused weapon system.
with regards to sub cap ships - arties probably need a bit of work, the minmatar recons are pretty much the worst of the bunch, tempests are a bit ****.
other than that they're not terrible. they've got the best tackly interceptor, good AFs, good t1 (f,c,bc), good commands. minmatar don't need a boost, they need tweaking.
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Zaenna Dark4ngel
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Posted - 2009.02.16 18:22:00 -
[57]
Adjust bonuses to rapier/huginn. They got double nerfed with QR - that's a bit too much to take.
Adjust clip size and tracking for medium and large artillery.
I am pure caldari and even I see this as obvious. For Caldari . . .well just don't touch my falcon and we can be friends!
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Learol
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:52:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Learol on 16/02/2009 18:55:36
(yes, its an alt)
IÆve been totally faithful to artillery for the last few years, recently got myself a phantasm faction cruiser, it out DPSs my Maelstrom somewhat epically
*edit, this is only when target is moving at more than 10m/s and the maelstrom is closer than 150km
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Random Womble
Minmatar
Master Miners
Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.02.16 19:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Freighter Jjoe
Interceptors - funny you would think Matar would excel here but not really. Meh dps but I do like the 4 slot stilleto for tackling.
That would partially be because for some ****ed up reason minmatar ceptors have the most mass of any ceptors.
Also to the guy that said the nid is the best fleet carrier get a clue as has been said time and time again its bonus is far less useful than the resistance bonus of the archon or the chimera since those carriers get the same effect when being repped by another archon or chimera as a nid gets when being remote repped by a nid plus their own personal tank also gets a boost therefore:
Chimera/archon repping chimera/archon
+25% effectiveness of RRed HP = effectively +25% HP repped
+25% effectiveness of local repped HP
Nid repping Nid
+25% HP remote repped
On top of that because the nid has a ****ty tank anyway in a mixed carrier fleet its going to often get called primary (that or a thanny depends on whats more important at the time removing DPS or breaking tank) so you cant even use the it will help the other carriers more reason since by the time they are being shot its dead.
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Random Womble
Minmatar
Master Miners
Electric Monkey Overlords
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:58:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
I am minmatar and must say a few poitns a pure bull312#!@#!@
Arties have MORE dps than rail! Their only real issues are very limited range and the very small clip. Solve the clip issue and all is ok.
Typhoon is the BS can can field more tank and gank at same time. No other battleship can dish 900 dps with 7 SLOT TANK!
The recons and capitals although really need some love.
To get just under 900 dps with no damage mods fitted and max skill on a typhoon you have to fit 4 torp launchers 4 800mm autos and 5 ogre IIs using Rep Fleet EMP and CN Torps then you have just over 1000 PG to fit all your other slots oh and you will need a target painter to even get full damage on BS . However a mega will do around the same DPS with no fittings using neutrons with CN anti and 5xOgre II and have 4500 PG left for the rest of its fittings (same mids and lows) along with a spare high slot.
The Neutrons on the mega will have better tracking than the autos on the phoon and because of the tiny range of torps even with max skills you will probably want to stay within 15kms of your target minimum with the phoon so the range wont be too diffrent.
Add in mega has more base EHP and more base armor and finally you will need around 7mil more SP to get those stats with the typhoon due to the missile skills and things really dont look to good
Alternatively if you want to look at tier 1 BS we could use the geddon instead of mega yes it does about 50 less DPS but then it can outrange a torp phoon it does admittedly have some cap issues and slot layout is -1 med +1 low but it also still uses 7mil less SP and the typhoons extra med is going to have to have TP anyway and DPS can be added by making that extra low slot a heat sink then geddon does more dps than phoon and still has more PG left to fit tanking mods.
And since we are talking about tier 1 ships here we should be asking why on earth the first level of battleships for minmatar should require so many skillpoints to be even semi effective.
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Julie Thorne
14th Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.16 20:07:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Random Womble
Chimera/archon repping chimera/archon
+33% effectiveness of RRed HP = effectively +33% HP repped
+33% effectiveness of local repped HP
But basicly you are right - the resistance bonus is just too powerful compared to the Thanny's damage or the Nid's RR bonus. I think the carriers would be much more balanced if the Chimera/Archon had a rep bonus (better local tank but less EHP and worse RR tank). It wouldn't help the Nid though cause it would be primaried anyway.
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Random Womble
Minmatar
Master Miners
Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.02.16 20:29:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Random Womble on 16/02/2009 20:30:51
Originally by: Julie Thorne
Originally by: Random Womble
Chimera/archon repping chimera/archon
+33% effectiveness of RRed HP = effectively +33% HP repped
+33% effectiveness of local repped HP
But basicly you are right - the resistance bonus is just too powerful compared to the Thanny's damage or the Nid's RR bonus. I think the carriers would be much more balanced if the Chimera/Archon had a rep bonus (better local tank but less EHP and worse RR tank). It wouldn't help the Nid though cause it would be primaried anyway.
yea sorry i stand correct my brain was failing me but thanks for boosting my point even more
Edit: i forgot to mention on my first post that even if archon/chimera had same base armor and shield as nid they would also rather obviously get even more base EHP assume we take carrier skill into account so another reason why restances > rr bonus
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.16 20:36:00 -
[63]
More like : The official whine Matar Thread
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Pac SubCom
A.W.M
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Posted - 2009.02.16 20:44:00 -
[64]
Without damage types and resists, all dps comparisons are fruitless. This thread is hot air like the million other boost Matar threads.
When asked about the Tempest's dps, what did the devs say?
"MIND THE FECKING RESISTS!"
And complaining about artillery and Minmatar recons at the same time must be a joke.
---------------
∞ TQFE
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 21:01:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 16/02/2009 21:01:39
Originally by: Riaz Qaadir
A lot of exaggerations from both sides here, but then you donÆt get anything by saying ôwe need small tweaksö, got to make things sound world ending (am I right 2008 amarr bros?). Got 5 mins to kill so hereÆs my takeà
Typhoon û ItÆs okay, its EFT stats are pretty good but hard to get in game (speaking as player who has a char specÆd for full t2 Typhoon). Torps only have 20km range, lose damage on anything thatÆs moving slightly and thatÆs smaller than 450 (huge battleship ie. rokh). ACÆs have rubbish base damage with the ROF bonus with no damage mods and lose damage from less range than blasters, itÆs the drone bay that rescues its damage. As far as its tank, only option is passive armour because it has rubbish armour HP, has more shield HP ffs, never mind trying to fit an active tank.
Tempest û ItÆs below average at everything, something always does it better. ACÆs with ROF and DMG bonus with no damage mods only give around same DPS per weapon as a Siege launcher with no bonuses. With only 6 lows youÆre limited in how much you can increase that damage without making it a tin can tank. Sniping, your dps is ok but your range is worst, tracking is worst, and once you reload dps is worst. Why use the lowest range, worst tracking, lowest dps sniper?
Maelstrom û ACÆs damage isnÆt bad here compared to ACÆs on Pest/Typhoon because you shield tank so always can fit 3 gyroÆs. Only problem I have is same as with Cyclone/Sleipnir/Claymore, bonus is best solo/tinygang yet to do solo/tinygang you need to tackle but that takes the same slots as your tank modsà oxymoron tank bonus.
Cane û Fine when fit/used correctly. Cyclone û Apart from bonus (see above) an extra turret is needed.
Sleipnir/Claymore û Fine apart from bonus.
Vagabond û It was never a damage dealer compared to other races (sure EFT peak is nice but thatÆs at like 2km), was always the ôit can run awayö factor that made people like it in a world of blobbing. 4 mids on a shield tanker doesnÆt give you many options, a bit more base HP wouldnÆt hurt since its survivability is reduced (especially with warp scrams switching mwd off).
Muninn û Suffers how most arty ships suffer except poor tracking is fixed by tracking bonus just leaving poor range/dps compared to other options. No real tanking options with 3 mids and 5 lows with two huge armour resistance holes. 2 misc highs are pretty pointless when sniping.
Recons û Yeah they arenÆt as good due to web changes. Thing is reducing web performance has increased the effect of TPÆs. Rapier can sort of fit a 4 slot armour tank hence fit webs and TPÆs but Huginn with 3 lows is pretty poor, especially with missile changes. 1 low and cloaking vs 3 missilesà IÆll take Rapier everytime now. Change Huginn so its webbing performance is better by replacing TP bonus with web effectiveness bonus.
Inties û Stilleto is fine at its tackling job. ClawÆs cpu and targeting range are rubbish. Never mind its mass is stupidly heavy for a minny ship leaving it very ungainly for a minny ship (but base speed compensates to give good mwd speed).
AF û EveryoneÆs old favourite argument with the backwards bonuses. Either way could use more pg for arty setups, even 250s limit choices drastically with the usual minny arty issues (tracking/range/dps).
Minnie doesn't sound that bad from this assessment that I fully agree with.
Things to fix:
-split weapon system on Nag makes it garbage
-Tracking Comps need to increase falloff too, or at least have a falloff script
-Fix arty's by either:
--Increasing clip size
--Adding 'subsystem' damage as they mentioned ages ago
--fangle with the gun's ranges/tracking
--or a straight up damage bonus to make up for the HP boost that was also ages ago
-----------------
Friends Forever |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 21:06:00 -
[66]
I know what to do : change all bonuses to 10% more stats in EFT /lvl ,so these "matars" can finally get what they want. Problem solved
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 21:12:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 16/02/2009 21:12:23
Originally by: Random Womble
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
I am minmatar and must say a few poitns a pure bull312#!@#!@
Arties have MORE dps than rail! Their only real issues are very limited range and the very small clip. Solve the clip issue and all is ok.
Typhoon is the BS can can field more tank and gank at same time. No other battleship can dish 900 dps with 7 SLOT TANK!
The recons and capitals although really need some love.
To get just under 900 dps with no damage mods fitted and max skill on a typhoon you have to fit 4 torp launchers 4 800mm autos and 5 ogre IIs using Rep Fleet EMP and CN Torps then you have just over 1000 PG to fit all your other slots oh and you will need a target painter to even get full damage on BS . However a mega will do around the same DPS with no fittings using neutrons with CN anti and 5xOgre II and have 4500 PG left for the rest of its fittings (same mids and lows) along with a spare high slot.
The Neutrons on the mega will have better tracking than the autos on the phoon and because of the tiny range of torps even with max skills you will probably want to stay within 15kms of your target minimum with the phoon so the range wont be too diffrent.
Add in mega has more base EHP and more base armor and finally you will need around 7mil more SP to get those stats with the typhoon due to the missile skills and things really dont look to good
Alternatively if you want to look at tier 1 BS we could use the geddon instead of mega yes it does about 50 less DPS but then it can outrange a torp phoon it does admittedly have some cap issues and slot layout is -1 med +1 low but it also still uses 7mil less SP and the typhoons extra med is going to have to have TP anyway and DPS can be added by making that extra low slot a heat sink then geddon does more dps than phoon and still has more PG left to fit tanking mods.
And since we are talking about tier 1 ships here we should be asking why on earth the first level of battleships for minmatar should require so many skillpoints to be even semi effective.
Well, if you're dishing out whatifs, how about I fit an AB and Tracking Disrupter on my phoon. All of a sudden neither the geddon or mega could track the phoon within web range if it had even a minor nano.
The phoon could be going somewhere around 200-300m/s in <10km orbit while a tracking disrupterII is dishing out about -50% to tracking. That'd do the trick.
Unsure how they could counter it unless they had a tracking computer OR a 2nd web, both of which is unlikely.
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Friends Forever |
Deathnail
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Posted - 2009.02.16 21:12:00 -
[68]
I know, just boost em resist to all ships.
Sorry joking. I just love how the most virulent opponents of boosting matar are Amarr and thought that I would at least point out that the OP flies most ships/races. Personally I fly pure Amarr and think things are balanced (except falcons obviously). Especially BC - I would fly any races at this point. Cheap DPS. Capitals - I only have 30mil sp and none of it wasted in them so far.
Ok seriously -
I see the whole rapierr/huggin being dual nerfed a bit much. But while you are fixing that would you mind giving my pilgrim range bonuses to neuts?
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Graalum
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.16 23:18:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Absalom Marathon
Minnie need love with one thing sub cap and that's the battleships. Or rather, the large artillery. Other than that I think they're good. Perhaps not FOTM any more but they are good enough.
artillery suck for top to bottom, not just for battleships.
adjusting artillery would really fix about all minmatar's problems, since most of their ships problems tend to center around arty ships (mininn, tempest, mael)
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Random Womble
Minmatar
Master Miners
Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.02.16 23:28:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Random Womble on 16/02/2009 23:28:43
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 16/02/2009 21:12:23
Originally by: Random Womble
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Well, if you're dishing out whatifs, how about I fit an AB and Tracking Disrupter on my phoon. All of a sudden neither the geddon or mega could track the phoon within web range if it had even a minor nano.
The phoon could be going somewhere around 200-300m/s in <10km orbit while a tracking disrupterII is dishing out about -50% to tracking. That'd do the trick.
Unsure how they could counter it unless they had a tracking computer OR a 2nd web, both of which is unlikely.
I was just replying to his stament about the damage and showing that there other ships that can do the same damage with less drawbacks. Plus if we did some more theory work on your setup and your using torps then you have got a 1 mid free for point (going to assume you would use scram since no way to stop people burning away otherwise. Now your left with 1 plate and some hardeners/damage mods in the lows or even speed mods if you wish, now it could work against that mega tho i suspect he would still be able to hit you a bit even with the disrupt and noce you come against anything spewing missiles or just not using BS weapons your screwed.
Admittedly this is all theory but my point was the theoretical DPS arguement for a typhoon does not work too well, if you fit it with all damage mods you can get alot of DPS but you will be like a wet paper bag (admittedly a pure DPS phoon with shield tank is one of my favourite setups on sisi but it does not work on TQ and normally dies on sisi).
Hell a domi with 6 ions + 5 ogre IIs does more DPS than the typhoon, does not need a painter and has an extra med slot.
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SickSeven
The Undead Righteous Knights
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Posted - 2009.02.16 23:39:00 -
[71]
The problem with minmatar is not usually in the ships themselves but the equipment required.
AC's could still use a tad of CCP lovin, and Artillery needs a huge Alpha and clipsize boost.
CCP just needs to find a way to make all the extra crosstraining that is required to fly the full spectrum of minmatar ships, actually worth it.
The Tyhpoon needs to moved to the Tier 2 battleship and the Tempest to the Tier 1 battleship. That would actually make sense.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 00:13:00 -
[72]
Gotchya (to poster above)
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Friends Forever |
techzer0
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.02.17 00:20:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Lasran Tekeal
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
I am minmatar and must say a few poitns a pure bull312#!@#!@
Arties have MORE dps than rail! Their only real issues are very limited range and the very small clip. Solve the clip issue and all is ok.
Typhoon is the BS can can field more tank and gank at same time. No other battleship can dish 900 dps with 7 SLOT TANK!
THe recons and capitals although really need some love.
Stop posting this bull****, the amount of training it takes to even fit the typhoon not to mention get the weapons to do that much damage is ******ed.
GTFO AND TRAIN ANOTHER RACE
Minmatar are supposed to be the hardest to train.
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Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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Lasran Tekeal
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Posted - 2009.02.17 03:46:00 -
[74]
Originally by: techzer0
Originally by: Lasran Tekeal
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
I am minmatar and must say a few poitns a pure bull312#!@#!@
Arties have MORE dps than rail! Their only real issues are very limited range and the very small clip. Solve the clip issue and all is ok.
Typhoon is the BS can can field more tank and gank at same time. No other battleship can dish 900 dps with 7 SLOT TANK!
THe recons and capitals although really need some love.
Where is it written in stone that minmatar are "supposed to be hard to train". Also just because i pointed out one terribad battleship takes over a year to make it decent that means i think minmatar are hard to train? I don't think that btw i just hate the phoon, i actually do fly the other 2 BS's.
Stop posting this bull****, the amount of training it takes to even fit the typhoon not to mention get the weapons to do that much damage is ******ed.
GTFO AND TRAIN ANOTHER RACE
Minmatar are supposed to be the hardest to train.
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