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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1779
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Posted - 2012.04.25 23:04:00 -
[61] - Quote
Sentinel Smith wrote:You can keep assuming I'm the one griefing them.. All I can say is I'm not.. I guess in the future I'll just make a petition when I have a question for the GM's.. Clearly most would rather assume that anyone who wants to know the rules is trying to subvert them..
CCP has made it quite clear they want to bring new players to this game. GM has made it quite clear that new players in the Rookie Systems are not to be messed with.
WTF is so hard to understand about that?
You say : What if a new player in the Rookie System scans down a 'Watch' site and then steals your loot?
Everyone more or less knows there's a very small extreme chance of that ever happening.
What I see is you looking for some sort of loophole that allows you to kill new players in the Rookie systems. |
Sid Hudgens
32
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Posted - 2012.04.25 23:14:00 -
[62] - Quote
Sentinel Smith wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. Thankyou for the concise response :) Could we get some indication of what a Rookie is ?
Can we get a clear definition of what a "system" is?
Also, "in any way" seems ambiguous to me ... can you clarify? "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Ifly Uwalk
Concentrated Evil Mining For Profit Alliance
210
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 23:22:00 -
[63] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten. Whoa whoa whoa...
You mean that every time I go to Aki to strip the belts there with my Hulk (as I am wont to do) and some lessthanaday old n00b comes along and steals ALL my stuff with his Ibis of Dewm - I can't even throw out my drones so they insta-pop his sorry a$$ before I can even click "Engage?"
Nerf n00bs! |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1779
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 23:28:00 -
[64] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:Sentinel Smith wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. Thankyou for the concise response :) Could we get some indication of what a Rookie is ? Can we get a clear definition of what a "system" is? Also, "in any way" seems ambiguous to me ... can you clarify?
WTF, is it troll season now?
FYI - 'system' is a short term for 'Solar System'. If you don't understand that, google it.
Also, 'Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way' means exactly that. If you need it to be clarified then you lack basic comprehension skills. If you don't understand that, google it.
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Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
707
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 23:29:00 -
[65] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:I do know that it is perfectly acceptable to gank someone in a rookie system because I petitioned the action before I did it (******* AFK Hulk drivers...)
I can't imagine anyone would seriously try to say "I can't be ganked in my expensive mining barge, I was in a NEWBIE SECTOR", but who knows? Pubbies are dumb. |
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 23:30:00 -
[66] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:CCP has made it quite clear they want to bring new players to this game. GM has made it quite clear that new players in the Rookie Systems are not to be messed with.
WTF is so hard to understand about that?
You say : What if a new player in the Rookie System scans down a 'Watch' site and then steals your loot?
Everyone more or less knows there's a very small extreme chance of that ever happening.
What I see is you looking for some sort of loophole that allows you to kill new players in the Rookie systems. That's not what I said at all.
I always What is a new player. I want to know what defines it.. Is it X months on the game or what ?
As for how often I get scanned down and my loot stolen from sites there.. it happens about twice a week, but as I said, if you read my posts, I wouldn't consider any of the people that scanned it down "New Players" they are 2-3 months
And for all the jokes about getting a definition.. I have an ISD who said it's 4months, but that was months ago and in no relation to this topic, I have another person saying 3months, CCP only keeps you in Rookie chat for 1 month.. Then others in this thread saying it's if they are flying TechII, or maybe the class of ship they are in..
I spend enough time in Clellinon to know that lots of "rookies" are actually players who's toon is a few years old, from previous times they have played the game..
There are a thousand variations.. I want to know, as the person out there, by what stick I would be judged on. Clearly I don't know the life story of someone I come across..
Prior to this rule change, my "measuring stick" was anyone in a Tech1 standard cruiser and below I considered new and just warned them away.. anyone else I shoot at.. But I see people in Clellinon that are a week old in a Navy Mega, so clearly even under the best case of a rookie being 1 month, I'd still be in the wrong.. or at least be at risk..
Wanting to know the criteria by which the GM's judge isn't too much to ask.. |
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 23:34:00 -
[67] - Quote
Xython wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:I do know that it is perfectly acceptable to gank someone in a rookie system because I petitioned the action before I did it (******* AFK Hulk drivers...) I can't imagine anyone would seriously try to say "I can't be ganked in my expensive mining barge, I was in a NEWBIE SECTOR", but who knows? Pubbies are dumb. Oh they are out there, and they have petitioned. Hulks are a regular sight in rookie systems, even more so now with all the ganking against them thinking they are protected.. when really they just put a bulleye on them because a lot of Rookie System residents don't care for them stripping the newbies ore.. [ A hulk can strip all of Clellinon in ~2hrs if they have good skills.. ].. Doesn't help that GM's don't seem to care.. and of course once the ore is gone, a lot of the newbies have no idea how to finish the training missions.. Or have to leave to the system next door where they Will be canflipped and otherwise griefed.. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
316
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 23:45:00 -
[68] - Quote
Sentinel Smith wrote: Wanting to know the criteria by which the GM's judge isn't too much to ask..
Simple. If you kill the player in a Rookie system and you get banned then he was an invalid target.
It's not up to CCP to tag those who are under protection. If you aren't smart enough to figure that out yourselves then you are a real dumbass and deserve the ban.
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Ismol Mond
Hedion University Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 05:19:00 -
[69] - Quote
Eve is either a sandbox or it's not. There really is no middle ground. The moment devs begin to make exceptions to a fundamental element of a mmorpg they have (historically speaking) made more and more changes that tended to make the mmorpg pretty generic. I know we are getting many players here that are bored of their other games so I guess for some reason it's inevitable that they try and turn this game into what they are used to. That seems to be what most of the posters here want so more power to you. May as well make starter systems pvp free and get it over with. Just take the roids out to make it somewhat fair.
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Howitzer Bunny
Looney Clones
0
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Posted - 2012.04.26 06:20:00 -
[70] - Quote
Quote: CCP has made it quite clear they want to bring new players to this game. GM has made it quite clear that new players in the Rookie Systems are not to be messed with.
WTF is so hard to understand about that?
If the 'new' GM rule is don't mess with them at all.
Why is it so hard to get that offical statement in the following sites where the them selfs point at:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Griefing http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems
This was the question Sentinal Smith asked at the first place at the start of the discussion.
Quote: In general,
"griefing" is a term that means action against another player that makes the target feel like being targeted on purpose or for the sake of harassment only.
In EVE, "griefing" refers to various activities, some of which can be argued not to be "griefing" in the classic sense, but parts of valid gameplay.
There are certain forms of griefing that can get you banned from the game. These include (but probably are not limited to) can baiting in rookie systems and certain forms of verbal harassment.]
The next time the GM might decide if you kill some that is a rookie, but in a "legal" system it's still griefing, because it's a rookie.
The only thing I asked make the rules clear. Not to work around them, but to know where the line is about some of non-war actions. If I want to kill someone we start a War. |
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Cannibal Kane
Praetorian Cannibals
343
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:30:00 -
[71] - Quote
When i see a rookie mining in a rookie system into his little can I leave him be. If a corp of players mining into a can with orca support and a drake bobbing about in the same system for so called protection. You can bet your sweet manly hairy ass I'm making that can mine.
If I get a warning for that, that is a bit ********. The last time I was in a rookie system I had a Navy Apoc and a Oracle on me. I'm not a Pirate, I'm a Terrorist.
The Crazy African |
Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
179
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:42:00 -
[72] - Quote
What would be quite simple, easy to understand and would stop people attempting to find ways around the rules is :
No PvP permitted in rookie systems.
There are no reasons for older players to be in rookie systems other than to bump up very low faction standings or to buy skills.
Oh and if you do go there and spot cans on the undock, do us all a favour and petition the tossers who dropped them.
Plenty of places to get fights in Eve, screwing over people in rookie systems isn't necessary.
Edit - oh and if hulks stripping belts are a problem then remove the belts from rookie systems. Any mining which missions require should be instanced. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:45:00 -
[73] - Quote
Ifly Uwalk wrote:You mean that every time I go to Aki to strip the belts there with my Hulk (as I am wont to do) and some lessthanaday old n00b comes along and steals ALL my stuff with his Ibis of Dewm - I can't even throw out my drones so they insta-pop his sorry a$$ before I can even click "Engage?"
Please mail me with info about where/how I can obtain an Ibis that could do that. It would provide a really nice kickstart for my special edition ships collection. |
Cannibal Kane
Praetorian Cannibals
343
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:46:00 -
[74] - Quote
Othran wrote:What would be quite simple, easy to understand and would stop people attempting to find ways around the rules is :
No PvP permitted in rookie systems.
There are no reasons for older players to be in rookie systems other than to bump up very low faction standings or to buy skills.
Oh and if you do go there and spot cans on the undock, do us all a favour and petition the tossers who dropped them.
Plenty of places to get fights in Eve, screwing over people in rookie systems isn't necessary.
Edit - oh and if hulks stripping belts are a problem then remove the belts from rookie systems. Any mining which missions require should be instanced.
Taking cans at the undock from baiters... it hurts them more to kill them than it does to petition them. I'm not a Pirate, I'm a Terrorist.
The Crazy African |
Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
179
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:51:00 -
[75] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Taking cans at the undock from baiters... it hurts them more to kill them than it does to petition them.
I know its tempting but the problem is that you won't be there to do that all the time. Petition DOES get them hit with the banstick, especially if they have a history of kills in the rookie systems.
Frankly they're just a bunch of tossers who should get permabanned IMO - hell you can simply go next-door to the rookie system and that's fine.
Ganking has its place in Eve, but ganking rookies in rookie ships/crapfit frigates/dessies when they're learning the game is just weak. Hell of a ****** way to pad out killboard stats |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1157
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:52:00 -
[76] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Only Rookies have Cookies!
Can rookies not have a training system locked only for them for say, 1 week? or until they complete a training tutorial then the gate is open and they MUST leave that system and we can do what we want then? That way they cannot hide in 1.0 forever.
I want the same for you, get your ass kicked out to null sec. Is it fair enough to you or are you going to find grieffer excuses to justify your mediocre interpretation of how much rookies are important to this game or how long/much should they stay in 1.0 ? |
Sephira Galamore
Nemesis Holdings Corp Luna Sanguinem
11
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 08:44:00 -
[77] - Quote
Sentinel Smith wrote:Honestly.. I don't understand people who think knowing the rules is a bad thing.. Imagine if life was like that at home, school, and otherwise in the world..
"Don't speed on this road." "What's the speed limit ?" " Get on a different road." .. o_0 See, there are different kind of rules. The hard ones and the vague ones and each have a purpose. If you state a rule somewhat vague you purposefully leave a grey area. Within this area, it is up to the police/judge/GM to decide whether you broke the rule or not. The effect of this is a certain uncertainty, which may appear as a bad thing but often really isn't. Since the goal here is to avoid people walking the line, to push the limits, to find loopholes. On the other hand, it allows GM to show leniance, too. (Also, vague rules are used, when it's very difficult to actually define the limits objectively).
And you have these kind of rules/laws in real life, too. "Don't drive in a way that recklessly endangers other traffic participants" - "Wait, what classifies as reckless driving?" - "Don't push it, man!" If you would define "recklessly" by setting limits for speed, acceleration, deviation from the road center, and whatsnot, you'd leave loopholes. Of course, hard rules have a purpose aswell, as they make it easy to deal with obvious cases and are less prone to subjective judgement.
So back to topic: If you are in a rookie system and in a situation where you wonder "Is this a rookie now or not?", it should be clear that as soon as you have valid cause to even ask this question, the safe course of action is to leave it be. It's a about common sense, really. Of course you can still ask that question, answer it for yourself as good as you can, but when acting accordingly, you willingly accept the risk that goes along with that. Eve, consequences and stuff ;) |
Gerald Taric
Adamantium Industry
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 09:55:00 -
[78] - Quote
Nephilius wrote:If you are not a rookie, why are you in a rookie system? Greeting a new corp member in personal, which is stil located in a rookie system? Or gifting him some items, which might be helpfull? Or simply company him? |
Zora'e
Nasty Pope
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 10:27:00 -
[79] - Quote
I think it is pretty clear myself. CCP has already clarified what they think a Rookie is because after 30 days, you get kicked from the Rookie channel. So.. if the character is under 30 days old, and is in a starter system they are a rookie. Leave them alone. Even if they mess with you. In EVE Online...-á-áA Friend will calm you down when you are angry after getting Ganked.., but a Best Friend will fly along beside you commanding a Strike Group singing "Someones Gonna Get It!!!".-á ~Zora'e |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
166
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 11:06:00 -
[80] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten. its not a newbie if its in a mining barge right let's say: goon in a hauler is not goon? or he is still goon? |
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Rekon X
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2012.04.26 11:07:00 -
[81] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Only Rookies have Cookies!
Can rookies not have a training system locked only for them for say, 1 week? or until they complete a training tutorial then the gate is open and they MUST leave that system and we can do what we want then? That way they cannot hide in 1.0 forever.
So your pathetically easy targets are hiding from you? So you are the one this needs to be clarified for. I don't care what you think, if you ever think at all. |
Rekon X
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2012.04.26 11:09:00 -
[82] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:If its a t2 in a rookie system. its not a rookie. Gack them. Otherwise its still and always has been cut and dry.
OMGWTF, there are 12 rookie systems. Stay the hell out. I don't care what you think, if you ever think at all. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
216
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 12:20:00 -
[83] - Quote
Rekon X wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:If its a t2 in a rookie system. its not a rookie. Gack them. Otherwise its still and always has been cut and dry. OMGWTF, there are 12 rookie systems. Stay the hell out.
rookie system doesn't mean safe haven f y i eh |
Rekon X
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2012.04.26 12:26:00 -
[84] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Rekon X wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:If its a t2 in a rookie system. its not a rookie. Gack them. Otherwise its still and always has been cut and dry. OMGWTF, there are 12 rookie systems. Stay the hell out. rookie system doesn't mean safe haven f y i
Most areas offer reading comprehension classes. I don't care what you think, if you ever think at all. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
316
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 13:24:00 -
[85] - Quote
Why NOT to make rookie systems PvP free systems?
Simple. Because then people who want to avoid getting killed can hop in there and be safe.
If you can't distinguish the difference between a hulk and an Ibis or even magnate by a few day old character then EVE is NOT the game for you. If you require exact and precise tags on what's a rookie and what's not then EVE is NOT the game for you. If you want CCP to find the borders of what is acceptable and what isn't then EVE is NOT the game for you.
On one side people complain thatCCP holds new players, and carebear hands too much and on the other side they need a hand held to guide them through what is possible and what isn't
Learn to read the rules and regulations and if in doubt then petition or mail CCP about getting an exact clarification. Anything not covered under the rules and which can't be classified as exploit or bug is free gameplay untill deemed otherwise.
This is a simple reality in any MMO out there.
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Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
12
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Posted - 2012.04.26 13:30:00 -
[86] - Quote
How people dare grief newbis,really phatetic behaviour, this is almost same behavoir like giving lollipop to small kid and take it back, i hate those people.
One year ago i was in rooki system and i saw some phatetic guy in traranis baiting newbis. so i fit kamikaze rupture and i give to him my alpha strike he was almost rip sadly i forget owerload my guns and he dock with around 4% on hull, but i got satisfaction he got weet pants ;) |
Anya Klibor
Malum Crusis
71
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 13:32:00 -
[87] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.
My corporation dec'd another corporation that bases out of Clell. If we get a fight there and pop them, can we expect them to be able to petition for "picking on them" even though they are in no way, shape, or form "rookies"? |
Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
183
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 13:39:00 -
[88] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:Why NOT to make rookie systems PvP free systems?
Simple. Because then people who want to avoid getting killed can hop in there and be safe.
Indeed. There are flaws with any system however a nice clear instruction would be helpful.
You could even modify it to say :
No PvP permitted in the 12 rookie systems unless it is between player corps. If one of the aggressors/aggressed is in a NPC corp then the banstick WILL be used. No excuses permitted.
There shouldn't be any asteroid belts in npc systems anyway. Mining "training" should be the same as combat "training" - instanced.
Its the same people who do it time and again anyway. A quick look at people not in npc corps in rookie systems indicates a significant number of them have kills in rookie systems on eve-kill/battleclinic. I just got an alt to look in Hadaugago and there's a guy in there who has over 90 kills of rookie players in the Minmatar rookie systems alone.
CCP need to make the warning about rookie systems a LOT more public, a LOT more specific (no weasel words) and they need to actively police it.
Either that or stop wasting everyone's time on the matter and ignore it, which is what they largely do now.
I'll leave this thread to the people who will try to argue that ganking the crap out of shitfit ships with pilots who couldn't find their way to the nearest trade hub is a good idea for Eve's longevity |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
316
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:07:00 -
[89] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten. My corporation dec'd another corporation that bases out of Clell. If we get a fight there and pop them, can we expect them to be able to petition for "picking on them" even though they are in no way, shape, or form "rookies"?
Try to graps the concept that there is a difference between Rookie and Rookie system. If you are too daft to grasp that then please do us all a favour and uninstall the game. You are clearly not able to understand basic game mechanics and are therefor not EVE material. |
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2012.04.26 16:12:00 -
[90] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:Try to graps the concept that there is a difference between Rookie and Rookie system. If you are too daft to grasp that then please do us all a favour and uninstall the game. You are clearly not able to understand basic game mechanics and are therefor not EVE material. Lots of Rookies join player corps almost right away, for better or worse.. So what about a week old player in a Player corp in a Rookie system that's a valid WT ? Or even not a valid WT, but just someone in a corp that your corp routinely fights with ? |
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