• Ore Yield û 25% bonus to mining laser yield and +5,000m3 ore hold per level (5 turrets)


• Harvesters Efficiency Optimizer û 10% decreased duration of gas harvesters and +5,000 m3 gas chamber per level (5 turrets)


• Corporate Sharing û 10% increase to mining drone yield and +5,000m3 corporate hangar per level (no turrets; 50m3, 25mbit )


• Covert Ops Reconfiguration û 20% bonus to mining laser yield and 10% increased cargo capacity per level; 100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use (3 turrets)

• Adaptive Shielding û 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level


• Amplification Node û 10% bonus to booster effectiveness per level


• Industrial Processor û 5% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level; 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules


• Signature Optimizer û 5% reduction in signature radius per level

• Augmented Capacitor Reservoir û 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level


• Capacitor Regeneration Matrix û 5% reduction in capacitor recharge rate per level


• Power Core Multiplier û 5% bonus to power output per level


• Harvester Capacitor Optimization û 5% reduced capacitor usage of Mining Lasers and Gas Harvesters per level

• Harvester CPU Efficiency Gate û 5% reduction in CPU penalties of mining upgrade modules per level


• Obfuscation Manifold û 20% bonus to ECM target jammer strength per level


• Emergent Locus Analyzer û 10% increase to scan strength of probes per level and 20% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams per level; -99% reduced CPU need for Scan Probe Launchers


• Dissolution Sequencer û15% bonus to ship sensor strength per level

• Interdiction Nullifier û 3% increased agility per level; Immunity to non-targeted interdiction


• Intercalated Nanofibers û 5% increased agility per level


• Warp Core Optimizer û +1 warp core strength per level


• Chassis Optimization û 5% bonus to max velocity per level

• covert ops miner (between retriever and covetor mining capabilities)
  cruiser sized refitting service


• ECM defense (strength equivalent to that of kitsune with current bonus)


• interdiction nullification


• immunity to probing (theoretically with the signature radius reduction subsystem + sensor strength bonus subsystem, the ship would need two ECCM modules to become immune, variable on base sensor strength and signature radius)


• bonused gas harvester

• Osprey/T3 covert ops = 564m3/min (3x Miner II)


• Retriever = 754m3/min (2x T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• T3 miner = 1057m3/min (5x Miner II)


• Covetor = 1131m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• Hulk = 1240m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)

Originally by: Archeas

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I actually like this setup, even with the covert ops since you've effectively made it possible while not over powered since it doesn't receive as much bonuses as the "Ore Yield" setup. It also doesn't have as much cargo space, so trips would have to be made. And still comes under the Hulk, which makes sense since the Hulk was made for mining, and this is not. Though it is possible to mine and give yourself bonuses at the same time, it's still somewhat of a decent setup. I assume the "corporate sharing" would meant to be used as a booster/hauler? Perhaps that subsystem could increase the corporate hanger by 10,000 m3 per level, and the cargo hold by 8% per level - Role bonus: -10% agility (since the sub system would add a certain mass to the cruiser. I think that would bring that particular sub system up to par with what people may use it for.

I like this idea because it fits into what we already have while not being overpowered, just versatile.

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Originally by: WarlockX

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Edited by: WarlockX on 18/01/2010 03:23:50
Interesting, except they sound more like a t3 Hauler then t3 cruisers since they are going to be bigger then battleships with those huge bays.

You also forgot to add low slots, mid slots.

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Originally by: Killljoy

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Nice idea but replace the corporate sharing ones drone stuff with something to do with mercoxic.

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Originally by: kieron

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The Ibis was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

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Originally by: Dark Drifter

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and max miner hard points should be no more than 3,

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Originally by: Newtonius Rex

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In general I like this idea, a lot!

I have been toying with this idea for a while, but never got anywhere near the detail the OP has :)

T3 ships can be configured to very specific roles and the T3 Indy should be the same, I always thought in lines of the following:
1) Mining Gas or Ore
2) Boosting
3) Hauling
4) Salvage/Hacking/Code-breaking

With this in mind, the only change that jumps out is the mining bonus on the cov ops subsystem. I would change this to a bonus to code breakers and analysers (possibly.

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Originally by: chrisreeves

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To be honest, the first time I read about T3 Cruisers I was suprised (and disapointed if I recall) that the range of subsystems did not have any with industrial bonuses. I thought it was odd for so many other features to be represented, yet the industrial side ignored completly.

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Originally by: Santiak

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Excellent ideas, my good man.

Just a slight sidenote, are you suggesting an entirely 5th strategic cruiser? Or are you proposing adding more subsystems to the current ones?

One could more or less make the Industrial Subsystems replace Offensive subsystems if fitted. And add the 3 unique subsystems you suggest from the other catagories to the current pool - perhaps adding a targeting penalty to the Warp Core Optimizer to deter people from making nigh uncatchable, yet viable, PvP setups.

But it's just a thought :)

Again, good idea - hope it gets noticed.

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Originally by: justin666

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i love how the carebears just tryed to justify a minning ship to have a convert ops cloak lol it would mean 0 risk minning so good luck with ccp going with that guys.....

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Originally by: RalShae Marques

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Edited by: RalShae Marques on 22/01/2010 18:56:27
I cannot endorse such a ship.

While I agree there is a need to make low-sec mining more accessible, A ship as described is a bit overkill.

Instead, I propose a simple piece of ship equipment.

I propose a "Probe counter-measure" (I'm terrible with names)

This device would consume a high-slot AND turret. I imagine a AWACS-like dome as the graphic. While on-line, it would mask all electromagnic signatures of your ship from probes. But the ship would still be visible, and targetable, from any nearby ship. It would have similar power/cpu demands as a mining laser. It would need to be active (like a laser or weapon) to be affective. While on-line (wether active or not), the ship could NOT jettison cargo.

This would allow a ship to move into a asteroid belt and conduct ninja mining. But would be invisible to all the PvP probe-and-ransom players out there. They could still conduct such operations, but would have to manually visit the belts. They'd just have to work a little harder.

You'd still have to hazard the potential gate/station campers. Still have to worry about cloaked ships camping out in the belts.

No new ship would need to created. No counter-balance designed. You want to put it on a Hulk and give it a try.. have at it.

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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I understand your sentiment but your [negative] point is sort of my [positive] point for this ship. Complexity is good; combat characters have access to a wide range of abilities and ship, why can't industrialists?

PS. I suggest making a separate proposal for your module idea. While I do not particularly agree with how you introduced it, you may find you get some support.

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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Citizens of Eve!!! I present to you, my proposal for a T3 industrial cruiser. These ideas are a compilation of features from various other proposals, players, and the current T3 subsystems.

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Originally by: Odhinn Vinlandii

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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Citizens of Eve!!! I present to you, my proposal for a T3 industrial cruiser. These ideas are a compilation of features from various other proposals, players, and the current T3 subsystems.

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Strategic = Industry/Infrastructure/Economy
Tactical = Military.

Strategic Cruisers are clearly industrial ships.

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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Edited by: XXSketchxx on 04/02/2010 16:56:04
Bumping this again.

As Sigras noted, CCP has stated that no ship shall out mine the Hulk. Additionally, note why; more minerals into the system is a bad thing.

Yes this will be expensive like the current T3; but you aren't paying for it to be better than a hulk/orca/blockade runner, at least not in their specialized fields. You are paying for the options and the unique features it provides.

I remember seeing that other T3 industrial idea a while back; I will have to look at it closer for the number crunching it provides. Eventually I would like to dive into slot layouts but that is a ton of work (working out what the slots would be like with all the different combinations).

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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Engineering Subsystems:

• Augmented Capacitor Reservoir û 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level


• Capacitor Regeneration Matrix û 5% reduction in capacitor recharge rate per level


• Power Core Multiplier û 5% bonus to power output per level


• Harvester Capacitor Optimization û 5% reduced capacitor usage of Mining Lasers and Gas Harvesters per level

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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More edits

Added a 30 second activation delay to cloaking after deactivating miner(s). This is to prevent miners from too easy of getaways. The covert ops cloak is designed to help enable travel through and into hostile areas, not to allow immunity.

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Originally by: Rogerano

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Cov-ops on this ship is inappropriate.

It usually takes more than 30 seconds for a ship to align, warp, and land. This means that an attacker will probably arrive at your location after you've cloaked. And that is in a perfect world. In the real world an attacker must load local grid, narrow your ship down to an astral body, warp, land, target your ship, and get a point on. This cannot be done in less than 30 seconds.

But that's by-the-by. A cov-ops cloak is inappropriate no matter the activation delay. Assuming this ship can align and warp in < 20 seconds, it's a simple matter - if local acquires another peace-loving citizen of EVE - for the pilot to warp away from the belt to a prepared safe spot and cloak.

So yes, the cloak does provide immunity. If you want to ninja-mine, get a burst. Much cheaper.

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Originally by: Rogerano

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To do so would reduce the effectiveness of a hulk by 1/3rd. Not an attractive option,

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Originally by: Rogerano

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This covert-ops miner represents an obvious choice for 0.0 miners who want to operate in risky areas. It would be impervious to interception with the right fittings, just as T3 cruisers are. Your intentions don't matter.

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Originally by: Rogerano

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Ninja-mining would take on whole new meaning. Covert portal a bunch of cov-ops miners and expanded blockade-runners in. When full, portal out again.

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Originally by: Rogerano

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We have mining platforms. They have proven adequate. If miners want to operate in risky areas they will need escort and protection.

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Originally by: Sigras

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You realize that his proposal < 10% better than a hulk with 2 strips and a cloak right?

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Originally by: Sigras

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Because its not possible to kill a blockade runner outside of using a bubble right?

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Originally by: Sigras

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Why is this a bad thing? They're putting ships out there that are > 4x the cost of a hulk, even in the current inflated market! Also, ever hear of a rorqual?

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Originally by: Sigras

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Says the man providing escort and protection. . .

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Originally by: Rogerano

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So? The proposal also includes the ability to pretty much go any where (provided the pilot knows his stuff) with low risk. I believe one day the T3 combat cruisers will also have this ability toned down, FWIW. It is currently a little over the top, but hey I enjoy making use of it so I'm not going to complain about ships _currently_ endowed. At least non-T3 ships capable of fitting cov-ops cloaks are unable to warp within a bubble and this increases the chances of interception.

Originally by: Sigras

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Because its not possible to kill a blockade runner outside of using a bubble right?

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Well I guess that depends on what you have with you when you attempt an intercept. Shrug. We've done it a few times in and out of a bubble. Not sure what your point is. The bubble does make it much easier TBH.

Originally by: Sigras

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Why is this a bad thing? They're putting ships out there that are > 4x the cost of a hulk, even in the current inflated market! Also, ever hear of a rorqual?

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Rorqual can hardly be considered a ninja miner in the same league as the black-ops possibilities I mentioned. With the new fuel bays, a few black-ops, and expanded blockade-runners it would be possible to run a nice mining session in hostile 0.0 with no risk. The ships would be a one-time outlay (which is not the case for combat ships). I guess getting the ore out would present a challenge - perhaps this is where you see balance?

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Originally by: Rogerano

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Originally by: Sigras

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Says the man providing escort and protection. . .

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Not sure what you mean here. I do not think the type of pvp I sporadically participate in is relevant to this dicussion.

Mining in 0.0 should not be risk free.

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Originally by: Sigras

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Additionally I ran the numbers, and even with T2 expander rigs, the MAX cargo space you can have on one of these with bubble dodging and covert ops cloak is 2,425.95 m^3 or about 3 minutes of mining. . . You can bring blockade runners if you want but they can't bubble dodge. . .

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Originally by: Sigras

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I do have a few questions for the OP though. . .

1. Why does the industrial processor get a low slot? I would rather see it get a mid slot for two reasons.
a. A mid slot would potentially allow for command processors.
b. It makes the signature optimizer the only choice to add a low slot limiting the ability to mobile boost/harvest/haul

2. Why does the Emergent Locus Analyzer get a 99% reduced CPU need for Scan Probe Launchers bonus? The core launcher, which is what I'm assuming it was designed for, only takes up 10 CPU, and I'm not sure this thing should be able to use combat probes. . . Seems a bit out of the ships role.

Just my thoughts

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Originally by: Beatson

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Signed.
Personally I see a T3 indy ship provide less yield than the hulk but provide enough tank that it can't be taken down by a ship with fittings totalling 10-15mil.

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Quote:

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Regarding the ice mining, perhaps you can replace the Rapid Deployment sub-system with one benefiting ice mining?

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Originally by: RalShae Marques

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As I read your proposal.. I was trying to understand what you were trying to accomplish.. As I understand it, you want to:
1. Travel to the belt unseen.
2. Mine quietly unless somebody happens to warp into the belt.

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Originally by: Veliria

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A true ninjaminer would be a welcome addition, as it gives mining an aspect that isn't mindblowingly dull.
The yield wouldn't really matter all that much, but cargohold would, it would be a waste to get deep into enemy/WH space with only 500m3 of cargo to fill with ore.

Maybe something closer to about 2000-3000m3 at lvl 4/5 so it can really be fun and still profitable to ninja mine.

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Originally by: Destruction Theory

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I agree. However, covert cloak is going JUST a bit too far. /Signed

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Originally by: Veliria

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First off all it should be a pain to scan down, it can't fight, it's expensive, a tank won't matter much if you can't fight back so all it can do is mine and run, so making it hard to scan down would force the opponent to try to find the target via the site, rather than the ship.

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Quote:

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Industrial purposes should be given a CovOps cloak as an option.
I think the 30 second delay on it should be modified, taking off 3 seconds per level of the subsystem skill.
If you do get scanned down, 30 seconds is a bit much.

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Quote:

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The warp core stab subsystem is a bit out of place.
If you get targetted, odds are they aren't alone and they'll find you again.

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Quote:

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Instead, I'd propose a subsystem that boosts MWD and AB speed.
It allows for more practical use of using a Cloak and MWD combo to get out of a bubble.

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Quote:

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I'd love to see a Drone Mining bonus somewhere along the line as well.

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Quote:

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The Engineering subsystems seem a little redundant.

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Quote:

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Maybe some systems aimed towards improving mining laser range, reducing the damage done to crystals, ore scanner and maybe that mining drone bonus.

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Quote:

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Just a few thoughts

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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dissolution sequencer + signature optimizer + ECCM modules

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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I'll think about this. I rather like the delay. It forces the pilot to be actively using the d-scanner and be ready to leave at a moments notice.

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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This is going to be changed to a mass reduction bonus. I never liked this subsystem (read a comment I made on the first page). Mass reduction bonus fits in much better.

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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I also considered this, but wasn't sure how much people would really want to fit an ab or mwd. I can see how it'd be useful though; I always fit a mwd on my blockade runners.

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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One of the subsystems had this initially but I modified it. I'll look into it, but honestly mining drones are pretty meh anyway.

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Originally by: Veliria

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Sounds good, but hopefully not all midslots will be taken to achieve an unscannable ship.
Atleast one mid should be free for an ore scanner or MWD.

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Quote:

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On that I'd have to disagree, Mining Drones actually bring in a good amount of ore and they do so every 1 min.
From what I can tell they bring about as much as 50-60% of a strip miner (which cycles in 3 mins) if you park close to a roid.
Add a mining bonus to that and you get some decent secondary support.

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Quote:

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One more thing, what about Mercoxit?
If the T3 ship is going to use regular turret miners, the Modulated Deep Core Miner II is what I'd use.
I used them on my Rokh before I got my Hulk very effectively and from what I can tell they can mine Mercoxit very effectively.
Seeing as how regular miners can't mine it (I think) and the Deep Core Strip Miner has less yield when compared to a Modulated Strip Miner, what would the yield be like when compared to a Skiff or Hulk?

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Originally by: Veliria

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Yeh seems good, seeing you could fit more MLUs on it than you could on a Skiff.

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Quote:

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Ice would be problematic as you need Ice Harvesters for that (which are strips) and a single unit is 1000m3.
As well, Ice Mining isn't really all that useful on this ship, Ice does not appear in WHs and in 0.0/Low-sec you're better off mining ABC or Merc.

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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Minor Modification:

Added a 50% reduction in mining laser optimal range for the Deep Core Extraction subsystem.

Why? Well theoretically this would go in conjunction with a "boost" to those Mercoxit gas clouds that form. It would mean you have to be closer to the rocks (i.e. in more danger) and thus have to fit a tank. You also don't get the reduced chance of gas cloud forming so, be prepared .

Hopefully this provides some nice distinction from the Skiff.

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Originally by: Veliria

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There is one thing I would like to add to this then.
If you decide to mine Merc over Ark (given your new stats), such a change would mean you're putting yourself in more harms way than you would mining regular ore.
Mercoxit isn't hugely more profitable than Ark (if it even is), but mining Merc should still remain practical.

Seeing as Mercoxit means you only need one specific ore type, why not make the subsystem a tiny bit more towards a ninja miner?
You could say that the 50% range reduction also reduces the CovOps cloak delay of 30 seconds by 50%.
That way you can ninja mine Mercoxit up close (still having to beware of the gas) but being able to GTFO out a little quicker for being so close.

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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Originally by: Veliria

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There is one thing I would like to add to this then.
If you decide to mine Merc over Ark (given your new stats), such a change would mean you're putting yourself in more harms way than you would mining regular ore.
Mercoxit isn't hugely more profitable than Ark (if it even is), but mining Merc should still remain practical.

Seeing as Mercoxit means you only need one specific ore type, why not make the subsystem a tiny bit more towards a ninja miner?
You could say that the 50% range reduction also reduces the CovOps cloak delay of 30 seconds by 50%.
That way you can ninja mine Mercoxit up close (still having to beware of the gas) but being able to GTFO out a little quicker for being so close.

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The Mercoxit subsystem is independent of the covert ops. The Mercoxit one will not be getting a bonus to cloaking. Remember that you could always fit a regular cloaking device, provided you have the spare high slot and you can also counteract the range reduction via the appropriate engineering subsystem.

Ideally, you could then use the interdiction nullifier subsystem + an improved cloak to move around null sec. Find a system you like, mine away. Hostile enters? Get safe and cloak. The fat mercoxit bay will allow reasonably prolonged ventures.

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Originally by: Veliria

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I don't know the value of Merc and Ark by memory, but why would one mine Mercoxit if mining Ark was 20-40% more profitable.
Mercoxit ofcourse also only appears where ABC also appears, so it's always a contest between them.

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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Originally by: Veliria

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I don't know the value of Merc and Ark by memory, but why would one mine Mercoxit if mining Ark was 20-40% more profitable.
Mercoxit ofcourse also only appears where ABC also appears, so it's always a contest between them.

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Whether or not Mercoxit is top dollar ore really isn't how the subsystems should be balanced; that is more an inherent problem with the current ore supply. Also, mercoxit appears in the northern regions of kspace whereas arkonor (and I think bistot) do not.

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• Advanced Spaceship Command 5


• O.R.E. Industrial Subsystem 1


• Mining 5


• Astrogeology 3


• O.R.E. Defensive Subsystem 1


• Shield Operation 5


• Shield Management 3


• O.R.E Engineering Subsystem 1


• Engineering 5


• Energy Management 3


• O.R.E. Electronics Subsystem 1


• Electronics 5


• Survey 3


• O.R.E. Propulsion Subsystem 1


• Navigation 5


• Evasive Maneuvering 3

Originally by: Lone Provider

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So I'm guessing this is still using the original T3 Hull in use now, just with new Subsystems?

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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Originally by: Lone Provider

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So I'm guessing this is still using the original T3 Hull in use now, just with new Subsystems?

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No. Ideally it would be a new hull with all new subsystems. While some subsystems are very similar to the current ones, most have been tailored to fit O.R.E.'s needs.

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Yes, but no ECM bonuses. Covops cloak+interdiction nullifier+ecm bonus = T3 Falcon.

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Originally by: Eclorc

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IMHO, the ore yield should not exceed the Retriever's capabilities, and certainly not exceed the Covetor. Those ships still have a role to play, and should continue to do so, and for experienced, as well as nOOb miners.

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Quote:

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Cargo bay size shouldn't exceed that of a Badger 1 either, smaller would be better even with cargo expanders fitted. Haulers exist for a reason, and if you make a mining ship able to interdiction-nullify and carry as much as an Itty5, then what is the point of Transport ships?

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Originally by: xxSketchxx

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Fit for max low slots gives 7 slots. With the covert ops subsystem, that's 50% bonus to 500m3 base plus potential for 7 Expanded Cargohold IIs, 2 T2 cargo rigs and 1 T1 cargo rig, giving approximately 6800m3. Even sacrificing a few slots for mining upgrades lets you maintain a decent cargohold. Should be enough to get you by.

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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• Osprey = 564m3/min (3x Miner II)


• Retriever = 754m3/min (2x T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• T3 Covert Ops = 846m3/min (3x Miner II)


• Covetor = 1131m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• T3 miner = 1175m3/min (5x Miner II)


• Hulk = 1240m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)

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• Osprey = 658m3/min (3x MDCM II and T2 crystals)


• Retriever = 754m3/min (2x T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• T3 Covert Ops = 987m3/min (3x MDCM II and T2 crystals)


• Covetor = 1131m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• Hulk = 1240m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• T3 miner = 1371m3/min (5x MDCM II and T2 crystals)

Originally by: Clansworth

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Edited by: Clansworth on 25/06/2010 03:44:56

Originally by: XXSketchxx

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• Osprey = 564m3/min (3x Miner II)


• Retriever = 754m3/min (2x T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• T3 Covert Ops = 846m3/min (3x Miner II)


• Covetor = 1131m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• T3 miner = 1175m3/min (5x Miner II)


• Hulk = 1240m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)

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Not really fair to compare T2 Strips w/ T2 Crystals, to plane Jane Miner II's. Using MDCM II's, with T2 crystals, the numbers are instead as follows:

• Osprey = 658m3/min (3x MDCM II and T2 crystals)


• Retriever = 754m3/min (2x T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• T3 Covert Ops = 987m3/min (3x MDCM II and T2 crystals)


• Covetor = 1131m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• Hulk = 1240m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• T3 miner = 1371m3/min (5x MDCM II and T2 crystals)

Which, while cool, DOES make them overpowered...

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• Osprey = 656/min (3x MDCM II, T2 crystals)


• Retriever = 755/min (2x T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• T3 Covert Ops = 981m3/min (3x MDCM II, T2 crystals)


• Covetor = 1132m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)


• T3 miner = 1226m3/min (5x MDCM II, T2 crystals)


• Hulk = 1302m3/min (T2 strips and T2 crystals)

Originally by: XXSketchxx

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So I completely forgot about Deep Core Miners (I thought they were only for Mercoxit)

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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bonused gas harvester

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Originally by: Morgan Morrow

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The Primae model would have made an awesome hull for a T3 industrial,it's what I thought when I first undocked with it.

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Originally by: Badmin

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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bonused gas harvester

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This ^

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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Originally by: Badmin

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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bonused gas harvester

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This ^

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I actually despise the idea of a bonused gas harvester ; gas is already ridiculously easy to harvest. But, gotta give the people what they want (within reason).

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Originally by: Sigras

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+1

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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Edited by: XXSketchxx on 25/06/2010 17:08:17

Electronic Subsystems:
...

Obfuscation Manifold û 20% bonus to ECM target jammer strength per level; 0/4/0

...

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Originally by: Eteama meldier

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hmmm

looking through your OP i don't see any info on drones
for a mining ship i have always felt a drone bay important, not so much for mining drones but it would be used but for me something to blow away the annoying rats

you could look at drone bay and bandwidth for the main ship skill. or you could work it into one of you subsystems

just a thought

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Originally by: Sim Cognito

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Originally by: Eteama meldier

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hmmm

looking through your OP i don't see any info on drones
for a mining ship i have always felt a drone bay important, not so much for mining drones but it would be used but for me something to blow away the annoying rats

you could look at drone bay and bandwidth for the main ship skill. or you could work it into one of you subsystems

just a thought

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I agree that drones are very important for a mining vessel.They provide utility and some form of self defense combined with a good tank against rats that disturb your mining.

Incorporating it to the hull bonus would be a nice idea because drones are needed in this kind of ship no matter what.

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Originally by: Nemtar Nataal

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This is absurt[SIC]!!!

You cant make a ship thats not racial Caldri[SIC] bether at ECM than the ship that are Caldari in the first place! Its not in line with the game balancing, like giving minmatar a laser bonus on there[SIC] racial (not faction) ships!

Should be replaced by a module that gives CPU bonuse like all the other racial T3ch ships have.

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Originally by: Sigras

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Edited by: Sigras on 01/08/2010 22:57:26
Edited by: Sigras on 01/08/2010 22:55:20
Well the problem I have with that is that ccp has long ago taken steps to remove >5 drone capabilities from ships (the removal of the guardian-vexor, the change to drone interfacing. . . )

I suggest +20% drone mining yield per level or 20% speed increade per level so you don't have to be sitting on the rock for Max efficiency

edit
Now that I think of it this may also unbalance the mining yield for some of the subsystems. . .

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Originally by: True Sight

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adding a tactical mining ship like this could make people actually mine in low-sec (something almost non-existent right now) and I don't think its really over-powered or imbalanced.

I think you may have to nuke its normal cargo capacity a little, consider that otherwise, with the interdiction nullifier it would be more powerful than the stealth transports and have more capacity.

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Originally by: True Sight

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I think maybe a little more thought into the specific roles this ship can fill once subsystems and modules are equipped, what do we actually want it to be able to do?

For example with the Legion

1) Can be fit as a cov-ops mindlink specialist, for fleet scouting etc
2) Multiple Damage-heavy types
3) Tank types

What do we actually want to be able to do in this ship?

1) Low sec miner
What do we need to do low sec mining, lets do it in a hulk.. ok, so people can too easily land on you/scramble you because you are slow to align etc, you have low defencive capabilities, can't transport much without being in a station system or having a POS

Options for our T3 ship: Make it high-speed, with ultra-long range mining bonus? this way you can fly around the belt at-speed, avoiding the 'sitting duck' scenario and continue mining in the belt happily, you also need enough cargo capacity in order to not have to rely on jet-cans or an orca or such.

What about providing a sub-system with a single ore compression facility? that works at such a speed, that it can barely keep up with its own mining input (so that it can't be used to support a whole mining fleet and replace an Rorqual) with limited capacity, would that make it too imba?

How about reviving normal mining beams? the ppor discarded Miner II's, by giving it a mining amount bonus/range bonus to those, the fast cycle time is something thats more beneficial in low sec mining

2) POS Deployer?
How about a POS structure cargo hold, enough to hold a small POS and a few modules, a cyno bonus like the recons, so that these ships can nip into low-sec and quick-deploy a POS to assist in jumping in rorquals etc for ninja-mining.

3) Salvager
People have been begging for a salvage vessel for a long time, why not design a couple of subsystem to tractor/salvaging ranges/speeds/effectiveness, small cargo hold but fast at nipping about and salvaging loot, this would make it a very popular ship for those with the skills to use it

4) Ice Miner
I bet that most of the ice fields in low sec don't even know what a mining barge looks like, let alone an entire mining op, how about a sub-system configuration that allows these ships to mine the more-valuable ice, as quickly as a mack can in empire, this means that current mach pilots wouldn't replace their ships with this, but using it on the higher-yield ice makes it a worthwhile venture for those doing it.

would need cargo capacity benefit, fit ice miners, speed bonus, how about instead of the double-ice bonus macks get, a half cycle bonus, give it that and a 10k ice-ice hold with good skills and you've got a pretty effective little mining ship.
One difficulty however is balance, making this ship an effective low-sec miner is pretty easy, but how do we make it worthwhile? and by that I mean, without making it simply a complete replacement for the hulk, so people sitting in 0.7 systems mining veldspar don't replace their ships with these? It would have to be less efficient than a hulk, but at the same time result in a worthwhile profit income from the minerals available in low-sec

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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True Sight, I really think you missed some of the important parts of the thread but regardless I'd like to address them for any readers:

1. Low sec miner: This ship has so much potential here with the current subsystems. Potential to be agile, fast, small sig, decent tank, ECM defense, cloak, ore yield, etc. Be creative. This ship as laid out fills this role (and ninja 0.0 miner) pretty well.

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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2. POS deployer: No need for a specific bay. Covert ops haulers can already ninja towers up like this, The covert subsystem + max cargo fit should be able to do something similar in regards to ninja setting up a small staging tower.

4. Ice Miner: We discussed this in the first few pages and as it is now, its simply rather unfeasible. Ice mining require ice harvesters which can only be fit to barges due to their size. I would rather stick to the idea that the Industrial Cruiser can only fit "Miner" size modules. If an "Ice Miner" module akin to the Miner I and its variations were implemented, new chunks of ice would also need to be established with corresponding product yields. All in all I considered this area too specialized/complicated for me to tackle. Sorry

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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I like the idea because the available space frames for miners/industrials is woefully inadequate.

This ship would be able to handle ninja-mining in a low security area. Although, it has to be said, is it going to be strong enough to resist belt rats? Is it going to be profitable enough for round-trip mining? 25000m3 cargo is a goodly amount and it may be boosted of course, but that's going to fill up in a hell of a hurry. It feels like an Iteron V hold with mining lasers and some fancy gizmos to hopefully outrun the fun-lovers...

I'm not sure I like the risk/reward equation of this ship but it's a sight better than what's out there right now.

This is a tool a miner can use.

Supported.

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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4. Ice Miner: We discussed this in the first few pages and as it is now, its simply rather unfeasible. Ice mining require ice harvesters which can only be fit to barges due to their size. I would rather stick to the idea that the Industrial Cruiser can only fit "Miner" size modules. If an "Ice Miner" module akin to the Miner I and its variations were implemented, new chunks of ice would also need to be established with corresponding product yields. All in all I considered this area too specialized/complicated for me to tackle. Sorry

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Originally by: Aeo IV

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I think it makes more sense to introduce t3 subsystems for the existing cruisers. For example,

Electronic subsystem:
Remote Mining Package
10% increase in mining laser yield, range, and reduction of cycle time.
Role bonus:
3/1/0 -1 turret slot
Can fit strip miners

Engineering subsystem:
Expanded holds
15% increase in cargo hold per level, 5000m3 base.

Making a whole new ship seems pointless, and I'm tired of seeing ORE ships rather than empire faction industral ships.

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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To address a few things.

1. I want a separate ship. That is what this thread is for. As Sigras, pointed out, why can't ORE have a T3?

2. I am keeping the 5k m3 ore bay per skill level subsystem. This subsystem essentially results in a dedicated ORE hauler. The miner can't simply be afk either because the cycles are short and the mined ore goes in the cargo hold and must be transferred.

The same goes for the gas harvester subsystem. The idea is that these ships have specialized cargo holds (this being their limitation) but are capable of being in the belt/gas cloud for extended periods of time (without relying on a jet can).

Bump for a while. Thanks for all the support.

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Originally by: Horizonist

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Great idea! But the +5000m3/level bonus is just ridiculous. I am sure you will fix that :)

/signed

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Originally by: XXSketchxx

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2. I am keeping the 5k m3 ore bay per skill level subsystem. This subsystem essentially results in a dedicated ORE hauler. The miner can't simply be afk either because the cycles are short and the mined ore goes in the cargo hold and must be transferred.

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Originally by: DetCord Saisio

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What about reducing the rate of "fire" for the tech III mining turret? This would be on par with current tech III vs tech I ship damage per second. I am new to game, but...
I hear the tengu strategic cruiser (t3) has comparable damage output per shot as the drake battlecruiser (t1). Tengu's faster cycle rate makes damage output about double. Why not use this same type of increase for tech III mining ship?

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Originally by: Markus Reese

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awesome renders

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Originally by: Jayne Rayne

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ò Ice yield û between hulk and mack...ò Drone Bandwidth û This is intended to possibly have 10 mining drones

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Quote:

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Some hull info

Base: 50m3 drone bay and 50mbit bandwidth

O.R.E Industrial Cruiser Skill Bonus: Can deploy 1 additional mining drone per level.

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Originally by: Horizonist

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Afk, worth the price and cloak

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Originally by: HeliosGal

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if youre adding a tech 3 gas miner with bonus yeild use low end and c1 components to keep it cheap

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Originally by: a newbie

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Very well thought out, I love the idea and it definitely has my vote.

One thing that I get an utter laugh is the people who complain about T3 being overkill. Umm.. IT COSTS AS MUCH AS A FACTION BATTLESHIP. YEAH IT SHOULD BE OVERKILL.

*clears throat*

Anyhow, it's like people complaining that .50 cal snipers should never be used against people because its too inhuman. YOUR AIMING TO KILL THE GUY! I honestly don't think it makes a difference WHAT you use.

RE T3 in this regard, if you are spending a fortune on a ship, your not doing it to have it work HALF as good. It better work 10x better and wipe your rear side while at it.

The OP thought this out very well and if I was flying one of these, or killing one, my backside would feel exceptionally clean.

YES all the way.

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Originally by: Magnus Orin

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Edited by: Magnus Orin on 30/01/2011 01:56:53
You know, I usually come into the F&I forums and **** all over the horrible ideas that are constantly spewed here.

I actually opened this thread with that intent.

I find myself completely supporting this idea though.

This is surprisingly well thought out and I think could give industrials a cool new, practical ship to train into after their hulk/orca.

If I can make one simple suggestion;

This idea belongs among other well proposed and thought out ideas in the Assembly Hall, not here with the unwashed masses of the F&I.

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Originally by: justin666

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i love how the carebears just tryed to justify a minning ship to have a convert ops cloak lol it would mean 0 risk minning so good luck with ccp going with that guys.....

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Originally by: justin666

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i love how the carebears just tryed to justify a minning ship to have a convert ops cloak lol it would mean 0 risk minning so good luck with ccp going with that guys.....

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Originally by: Naomi Wildfire

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No idea if said, but dont forget the offensive subsystems for pvp'ers ;)

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