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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Ben Hatton
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2014.05.19 13:01:00 -
[1171] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Wulfy Johnson wrote:
Something like this is way more realistic than rigs and allows for fitting towards what task you have at hand without dishing out hundreds of mill in waste to provide a "noob isksink", dough i still belive one low would serve that puropse better with less gimping of the ship.
Thanks for providing some numbers.
Three lows creates for a lot more options and makes more of a spectrum instead of huge swings. It also makes the downsides and upsides more meaningful. For example with a single low, cargo would have to drop by only about 10%, maybe even as little as 5%, to make there be a reasonably sized upside to fitting the expander instead. But if you're only giving up 5-10% of your cargo, then fitting a DC II or really anything else becomes far too much of a no-brainer - there's just no longer much of a trade-off involved.
I would vote for 2 lows personally as it achieves similar objectives to the rig plan without being over the top (though I must admit I haven't done the numbers, basing this on gut feel). 2 cargo exp, 2 bulkheads, 2 nanofibers or any combination of the such. But yeah, the DCU not something that should be able to be fitted as it puts it in the too much category. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22004
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:07:00 -
[1172] - Quote
GǪcome to think of it, why do bulkheads require so much CPU? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
43
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:09:00 -
[1173] - Quote
Well eighter way, removing more ehp off these already fragile ships, making them more common with lower ehp will result in a rabbits race for kb padding. To me that would more of an isk sink short term, and leaves a no choice in fitting long term. |
Ben Hatton
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:10:00 -
[1174] - Quote
Wulfy Johnson wrote:Well eighter way, removing more ehp off these already fragile ships, making them more common with lower ehp will result in a rabbits race for kb padding. To me that would more of an isk sink short term, and leaves a no choice in fitting long term.
Buying items off the market is not an isk since dude, please don't confuse this. You are giving your isk to another player in a trade. |
ArmyOfMe
Origin. Black Legion.
302
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:13:00 -
[1175] - Quote
Adrien Crosse wrote:Mr JewBearJr wrote:ArmyOfMe wrote:Im all for a nerf of jf's, as they make 0,0 life way to easy. I dont really see the point in nerfing normal freighters in such a way though, as you'r allready seeing them beeing popped all over empire space anyhow. This.. a million times this.. Except this change does nothing to that end. People who use JFs now are still going to use them after the change. well i said i was all for a JF nerf, not that i felt this was the correct way to go about it. If it was up to me we still wouldnt have jf's. And the ppl living at the outer ages would have a bloody hard time with their logistics (no i hate titan bridges as well), but they should be greater rewards for living in those regions (and yes, i hate jumpbridges to) QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken |
ArmyOfMe
Origin. Black Legion.
302
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:15:00 -
[1176] - Quote
[quote=Allison A'vani]This is possibly one of the worst changes I have ever seen. Anyone who actually flies jump freighters a lot will tell you that this is an awful change. For my rhea to even get to where it is right now I have to dump 1.2b on rigs + buy a high grade nomad set. Thank CCP for a dumb change that makes me waste 3 - 4b. /quote]Since when was there hg nomad sets???
QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3540
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:15:00 -
[1177] - Quote
ArmyOfMe wrote:Adrien Crosse wrote:Mr JewBearJr wrote:ArmyOfMe wrote:Im all for a nerf of jf's, as they make 0,0 life way to easy. I dont really see the point in nerfing normal freighters in such a way though, as you'r allready seeing them beeing popped all over empire space anyhow. This.. a million times this.. Except this change does nothing to that end. People who use JFs now are still going to use them after the change. well i said i was all for a JF nerf, not that i felt this was the correct way to go about it. If it was up to me we still wouldnt have jf's. And the ppl living at the outer ages would have a bloody hard time with their logistics (no i hate titan bridges as well), but they should be greater rewards for living in those regions (and yes, i hate jumpbridges to)
If you saw the kind of "greater rewards" it'd take to make living in deep nullsec without any of that capability worthwhile, you'd probably be whining about those, too. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
606
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:20:00 -
[1178] - Quote
Wulfy Johnson wrote:Well eighter way, removing more ehp off these already fragile ships, making them more common with lower ehp will result in a rabbits race for kb padding. To me that would more of an isk sink short term, and leaves a no choice in fitting long term.
1. Freighters aren't fragile, they take considerable effort, manpower and strategy to gank. 2. No-one cares about KB stats, except for some ~elite-pvp~ groups, which are largely unimportant and easy to deal with. 3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Dave Stark
5812
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:22:00 -
[1179] - Quote
TIL: ships with nearly 200k ehp are fragile. |
De'Veldrin
Saint's Industries Brothers of Tangra
2078
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:24:00 -
[1180] - Quote
This is one of those ideas that falls firmly into the category of "Be careful what you wish for."
Everyone, and I mean everyone, (including moi, Tippia, and IIRC Mags) who actually understood what giving rigs to freighters would do to them spent (literally) years trying to shoot down the proposals to change them. It seems the ignorant masses finally got what they (thought) they wanted.
Well, at the very least Miniluv will have a good time. GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players. |
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ArmyOfMe
Origin. Black Legion.
303
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:25:00 -
[1181] - Quote
mynnna wrote:
If you saw the kind of "greater rewards" it'd take to make living in deep nullsec without any of that capability worthwhile, you'd probably be whining about those, too.
The great thing for me is that ive played long enough to remember when ppl were living in those regions. Before jf's, before freighters even. I remember those long lasting trips through 0,0 with a bs fleet as escort. But we did it anyhow. I think you underestimate ppl's desires to live in 0,0 and make themselfs a home. QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6373
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:26:00 -
[1182] - Quote
So, mynnna, since you are most heavily involved in the thread, could you tell us what the CSMs thoughts are, in general, about this proposed change so far?
I know we already had core weigh in, so it would be nice to hear the general tone of things. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Valterra Craven
240
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:26:00 -
[1183] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Fozzie, I know you guys see these posts, and I know you can't comment on everything, and lastly I know that introducing art assets to the game takes time. However this is my proposal and will likely be far more appeasing to all parties involved than the current changes.
Leave the current freighters as they are.
Make smaller new freighters.
Make them have half the cargo, hit points, align time and build cost and double the warp speed.
Give them 3 rig slots
Win
OR
Leave the current freighters alone
Make ONE new freighter in the ORE line with the above stats and say that ORE needed something with better agility for deep space mining or some mobo jumbo like that. Already in game... it's called an Orca.
Because an orca has 500k m3???
|
De'Veldrin
Saint's Industries Brothers of Tangra
2079
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:28:00 -
[1184] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:
Rigs don't drop.
In case people are wondering where we are, we're talking with Fozzie, and keeping an eye on the thread, to pick out good posts.
Leave freighters as they currently are. There, thats a good post imo.
I was about to post the same thing. Freighters were fine. Slow loot pinatas when flown by the incoimpetent, but fine otherwise. GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players. |
Dave Stark
5813
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:32:00 -
[1185] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Fozzie, I know you guys see these posts, and I know you can't comment on everything, and lastly I know that introducing art assets to the game takes time. However this is my proposal and will likely be far more appeasing to all parties involved than the current changes.
Leave the current freighters as they are.
Make smaller new freighters.
Make them have half the cargo, hit points, align time and build cost and double the warp speed.
Give them 3 rig slots
Win
OR
Leave the current freighters alone
Make ONE new freighter in the ORE line with the above stats and say that ORE needed something with better agility for deep space mining or some mobo jumbo like that. Already in game... it's called an Orca. Because an orca has 500k m3???
400k smb 50k ore bay 40k fleet hangar whatever your cargo ends up at with skills and fittings...
yeah, it does have 500k m3... technically. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
520
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:34:00 -
[1186] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Fozzie, I know you guys see these posts, and I know you can't comment on everything, and lastly I know that introducing art assets to the game takes time. However this is my proposal and will likely be far more appeasing to all parties involved than the current changes.
Leave the current freighters as they are.
Make smaller new freighters.
Make them have half the cargo, hit points, align time and build cost and double the warp speed.
Give them 3 rig slots
Win
OR
Leave the current freighters alone
Make ONE new freighter in the ORE line with the above stats and say that ORE needed something with better agility for deep space mining or some mobo jumbo like that. Already in game... it's called an Orca. Because an orca has 500k m3??? 400k smb 50k ore bay 40k fleet hangar whatever your cargo ends up at with skills and fittings... yeah, it does have 500k m3... technically.
Of which you can only use 40k to transport things that are not assembled ships or ore. Yeah, that is certainly a good ship to transport Courier Contracts or quantities of modules, minerals, etc. |
Kaerakh
Surprisingly Deep Hole
207
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:34:00 -
[1187] - Quote
I'd just like to take this moment to say to all those carebears that wanted Freighter customization congratulations, and now I'd like to tell them I TOLD YOU SO about the massive cargo nerf for customization. |
De'Veldrin
Saint's Industries Brothers of Tangra
2079
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:38:00 -
[1188] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote:I'd just like to take this moment to say to all those carebears that wanted Freighter customization congratulations, and now I'd like to tell them I TOLD YOU SO about the massive cargo nerf for customization. I told you so always feels good. GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players. |
Dave Stark
5813
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:38:00 -
[1189] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Of which you can only use 40k to transport things that are not assembled ships or ore. Yeah, that is certainly a good ship to transport Courier Contracts or quantities of modules, minerals, etc.
actually, it's more than 40k |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22009
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:38:00 -
[1190] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Of which you can only use 40k to transport things that are not assembled ships or ore. It's upwards of 100k, actuallyGǪ but it makes the ship a lot worse if you do.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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Valterra Craven
240
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:41:00 -
[1191] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Valterra Craven wrote: Make smaller new freighters.
I'll say this slowly for you... DEEP SPACE TRANSPORT SHIPS! -OR- ORCA
I'll say this slowly for you... none of those ships do 500k m3. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22009
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:43:00 -
[1192] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:I'll say this slowly for you... none of those ships do 500k m3. If you just want a sturdier, faster ship with half the cargo, JFs pretty much do that already. Orcas do about half of what a JF does (if we ignore the ship hangar). DSTs do about half of whan an Orca does. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Valterra Craven
240
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:44:00 -
[1193] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: 3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.
I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them.
At best freighter ganks are a sink as they remove things from the game.
A faucet is something that creates something from thin air. aka NPC bounties. A sink is something that removes something from the economy, aka taxes and sov fees.
|
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
520
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:45:00 -
[1194] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Valterra Craven wrote: Make smaller new freighters.
I'll say this slowly for you... DEEP SPACE TRANSPORT SHIPS! -OR- ORCA
None is suitable to transport things between 100k and 300k m-¦. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6376
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:46:00 -
[1195] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: 3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.
I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them. At best freighter ganks are a sink as they remove things from the game. A faucet is something that creates something from thin air. aka NPC bounties. A sink is something that removes something from the economy, aka taxes and sov fees.
Anybody want to buy this guy a clue? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Valterra Craven
240
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:47:00 -
[1196] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:I'll say this slowly for you... none of those ships do 500k m3. If you just want a sturdier, faster ship with half the cargo, JFs pretty much do that already. Orcas do about half of what a JF does (if we ignore the ship hangar). DSTs do about half of whan an Orca does.
The goal here is to comprise.
People wanted riggable freighters and those of us that are sane don't want these massive across the board nerfs.
JFs cost 7-8x times as much as regular freighters.
These would cost around the same as orcas, wouldnt have the boosting of orcas and would be totally devoted to hauling.
Personally I want nothing to change here at all, but I'm trying to come up with reasonable solutions. |
Dave Stark
5814
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:47:00 -
[1197] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: 3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.
I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them. At best freighter ganks are a sink as they remove things from the game. A faucet is something that creates something from thin air. aka NPC bounties. A sink is something that removes something from the economy, aka taxes and sov fees.
they might be an item sink, but they aren't an isk sink. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22010
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:49:00 -
[1198] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: 3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.
I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them. At best freighter ganks are a sink No. You don't understand what the term means. We're talking about ISK here. No ISK is removed from the game. Every freighter loss is a giant ISK faucet since their destruction creates ISK through insurance.
Wulfy's original claim was that reducing the freighters' EHP made them into an ISK sink. Sipphakta entirely accurately corrected him by pointing out that a freigther kill is an ISK faucet.
Rivr Luzade wrote:None is suitable to transport things between 100k and 300k m-¦. Again, JFs fit that role perfectly. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Valterra Craven
240
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:49:00 -
[1199] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Fozzie, I know you guys see these posts, and I know you can't comment on everything, and lastly I know that introducing art assets to the game takes time. However this is my proposal and will likely be far more appeasing to all parties involved than the current changes.
Leave the current freighters as they are.
Make smaller new freighters.
Make them have half the cargo, hit points, align time and build cost and double the warp speed.
Give them 3 rig slots
Win
OR
Leave the current freighters alone
Make ONE new freighter in the ORE line with the above stats and say that ORE needed something with better agility for deep space mining or some mobo jumbo like that. Already in game... it's called an Orca. Because an orca has 500k m3??? 400k smb 50k ore bay 40k fleet hangar whatever your cargo ends up at with skills and fittings... yeah, it does have 500k m3... technically.
No it does not. If you could put 400k of regular general cargo in the SMB then you might have a point. but you can't. So you arent adding anything relevant to this conversation.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1548
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 13:50:00 -
[1200] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: 3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.
I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them. At best freighter ganks are a sink as they remove things from the game. A faucet is something that creates something from thin air. aka NPC bounties. A sink is something that removes something from the economy, aka taxes and sov fees. they might be an item sink, but they aren't an isk sink.
and they ARE an isk faucet because of insurance. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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