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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11633
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:16:00 -
[871] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:I want gank pilots to have to scan my Charon to see what defenses (or lack thereof) I have on my ship.
so you're willing to take a massive freighter nerf, just so gankers have to click 1 more button before they gank you? There is no nerf, if rigs AND MODS are added to freighters it just makes them like all the other ships in the game (i.e. meaningful choice at a cost). Let me ask you this, what if every ship in the game had no rigs and no mods, you got hull bonuses and that was it? Would you even be playing this game?
What you want would result is an enormous nerf to freighters. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Dave Stark
5777
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:17:00 -
[872] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:What you want would result is an enormous nerf to freighters. a fact he's clearly unwilling to accept due to the fact that he refused to answer the question. |
Max Goldwing
Homeworld Republic The East India Co.
11
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:19:00 -
[873] - Quote
Adding jump fuel rigs wont really change the fact that the cargo size is the only interesting stat on a JF. If the jump fuel rigs simply reduce fuel in a comparable way to the cargo buff gained with cargo rigs, it will just mean you can choose how much to haul each time at the same isk/m3 cost, granted thats slightly useful, but not by much.
Jump range rigs vs. cargo space probably wont be used, while saving a cyno is useful, in the end isk per m3 hauled is the selling factor.
Getting more tank on the regular freighters by trading cargo space is nice, but I wonder if the HP increase will be significant. As it is now freighters are being ganked with sub 1bil loads, so they can rarely use the space they have anyway. |
Mag's
the united
17266
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:19:00 -
[874] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:What you want would result is an enormous nerf to freighters. What we need is a thread that proves this to be the case. One may turn up at some point soon.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21949
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:20:00 -
[875] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:baltec1 wrote:What you want would result is an enormous nerf to freighters. a fact he's clearly unwilling to accept due to the fact that he refused to answer the question. An unwillingness that is baffling since this very thread is proof positive of exactly what we've been saying all this time. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Dave Stark
5777
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:20:00 -
[876] - Quote
Mag's wrote:baltec1 wrote:What you want would result is an enormous nerf to freighters. What we need is a thread that proves this to be the case. One may turn up at some point soon. it'd also be great if it was posted by a CCP employee to give it extra credibility. |
Glasgow Dunlop
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
140
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:22:00 -
[877] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote:Did anyone take a look at that post I made a while back suggesting the use of subsystems instead of rigs? It would allow Freighters & JFs to be customized differently, permit JFs to be given rage / fuel consumption modifications without affecting any other capitals and avoid needing an across-the-board nerf to prevent freighters from over-excelling in any one area because the trade-offs are built into the subsystems.
Seems like an elegant solution to many of the concerns raised in this thread.
And also using subsystems will give more value to sleeper loot to boot twitter: @glasgowdunlop-á TDSIN Jnr Recruitment Officer : Join 'TDSIN pub' Glasgow Meet Organiser |
Mag's
the united
17266
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:22:00 -
[878] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Mag's wrote:baltec1 wrote:What you want would result is an enormous nerf to freighters. What we need is a thread that proves this to be the case. One may turn up at some point soon. it'd also be great if it was posted by a CCP employee to give it extra credibility. Indeed that would be for the best.
Who knows, we may get lucky?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Dave Stark
5777
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:23:00 -
[879] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Mag's wrote:baltec1 wrote:What you want would result is an enormous nerf to freighters. What we need is a thread that proves this to be the case. One may turn up at some point soon. it'd also be great if it was posted by a CCP employee to give it extra credibility. Indeed that would be for the best. Who knows, we may get lucky? fingers crossed. |
Digger Pollard
Why So Platypus
3
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:24:00 -
[880] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:You may not kill the target. Not killing a target with near-zero ehp variety and zero tanking variety? Are you worse at eve than my dog?
baltec1 wrote:You might not get the drop. As well as getting twice the expected. On average you will get 50%, so it's not a risk in the long run.
baltec1 wrote:You might be attacked at any time. Gank fleet under attack? Please! Not to mention that if somebody can attack a gank fleet, he's better off just ganking a freighter himself, but your gank fleet is already supposed to be disposable. At the very least, such an attack carries considerable risk, unlike ganking.
baltec1 wrote:You own freighter may be attacked and killed. This is hilarious argument. Unless you're worse than my dog at eve, your freighter won't get the crimewatch flag, and if you said that while not meaning the crimewatch, then there is no better argument imaginable than a ganker who's afraid of a freightee gank!
baltec1 wrote:And then we have all of the punishments for attacking someone in high sec. Removal-of-consequences tags are still there or I missed something?
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Dave Stark
5781
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:26:00 -
[881] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:baltec1 wrote:You may not kill the target. Not killing a target with near-zero ehp variety and zero tanking variety? Are you worse at eve than my dog? because eve is a single player game where there's 0 chance of outside assistance? |
Ammzi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
1767
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:27:00 -
[882] - Quote
No risk in ganking? Hah, I laugh at those people, when all you have to do to throw ganking out the window is a cheap t1 thrasher and just pop the wrecks as soon as they appear. Implying the loot fairy matters at all if the wreck goes pop.
Let's so some funny math though regarding ~risk~ to get ganked in a freighter based, not on cargo, but simply the risk associated with passing through choke point 0.5 systems. Every time you pass through the system there's a risk of you getting ganked.
Establishing assumptions:
To do this we have to throw out some relatively arbitrary, but well argumented numbers with regards to freighter sitings/trips throw 0.5 systems. We have: Niarja (amarr<->jita) and Uedama (Jita/Amarr<->many systems!) and Balle (Jita/Amarr<->Dodixie/Hek).
Let's say an average of 15 freighters pass through Niarja and the same value for Uedama per minute. Balle is probably a lot less, let's say 5 freighter a min. So we have 35 freighters/min. pass throw key choke point systems with high probability of getting ganked. That accumulates to just about 1.5 million freighter trips. About 1/40,000 chance you will get ganked passing through a 0.5 system. So about ~10 times more often to get ganked than hit by lightning. Pretty good odds I'd say myself. |
Mag's
the united
17269
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:27:00 -
[883] - Quote
Chances are, Digger had a straight face when posting that.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Dave Stark
5781
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:28:00 -
[884] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Chances are, Digger had a straight face when posting that. based on what he posted, it's the only thing he had straight. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11637
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:28:00 -
[885] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:Stuff.
You cant just brush them all away.
The risks are there and very real, the only people who think ganking is risk free are people who don't do it, have never done it, and have a personal gripe with piracy even being an option. The same people who think buying sec back with those tags is a good idea. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Mag's
the united
17269
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:29:00 -
[886] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Mag's wrote:Chances are, Digger had a straight face when posting that. based on what he posted, it's the only thing he had straight. That made me chuckle, thanks bud.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21950
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:31:00 -
[887] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:Not killing a target with near-zero ehp variety and zero tanking variety? It's called random number generator. The name should be a hint. It is also called not knowing what else the target brings and not being able to judge the EHP beforehand.
Quote:As well as getting twice the expected. On average you will get 50%, so it's not a risk in the long run. >_< Did you just say that? You can't have it both ways. Either you're talking about averages and percentages, or you're saying that there is no risk. You can't first say one and then conclude the other because they are inherently contradictory.
Quote:Gank fleet under attack? Yes. Remember that whole probability of outcome thing? Here's something that can happen with a decidedly bad outcome.
Quote:This is hilarious argument. Unless you're worse than my dog at eve, your freighter won't get the crimewatch flag It rather has to, you know, since there aren't that many ships that can pick up and handle freighter-sized loads of loot.
Quote:Removal-of-consequences tags are still there or I missed something? Those don't really help and is just a pointless waste of ISK for a career ganker.
So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident of my previous GÇ£0 risk = 0 insightGÇ¥ model for ganking risk assessments. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research Special Circumstances Alliance
14
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:34:00 -
[888] - Quote
The funniest part is that people just don't like the idea to accept the fact that after this patch they will have somewhat less than they have now. Not useless, as some trying to put it, just less. But as the time passes, it will begin to be taken for granted, and those who haven't yet been in hauling things buisness before that fix will be happy that they are able to customize their freghters a little and competely fond with its other stats as they haven't used to current ones.
At least it's intended to serve some far-reaching nullsecs' industry rebalancing plans and probably will be accompanied by many others tweaks designed to force manufacturing all goods you can locally and import only those you are desperately need to. Its better just to stop clinging to the past and embrace a new reality, hoping its whole picture was thought out well. |
Digger Pollard
Why So Platypus
4
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:35:00 -
[889] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:Stuff.
You cant just brush them all away. The risks are there and very real, the only people who think ganking is risk free are people who don't do it, have never done it, and have a personal gripe with piracy even being an option. The same people who think buying sec back with those tags is a good idea.
If you convert those "risks" to numbers, I have to say you can't really call a number real if it only has imaginary part. Piracy is fine. Sitting on a gate lazily picking tastiest victim among those who have no choice but to be there is not piracy.
The only non-imaginary risk you have in ganking a freighter is being worse than my dog at eve. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
58
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:36:00 -
[890] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[quote=Digger Pollard] Quote:This is hilarious argument. Unless you're worse than my dog at eve, your freighter won't get the crimewatch flag It rather has to, you know, since there aren't that many ships that can pick up and handle freighter-sized loads of loot. So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident of my previous GÇ£0 risk = 0 insightGÇ¥ model for ganking risk assessments.
If you don't know how to launder your loot with the fleet hangar in an Orca, you really shouldn't be ganking. the freighters picking up the loot are as safe as a baby in its mother womb |
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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
58
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:37:00 -
[891] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:Stuff.
You cant just brush them all away. The risks are there and very real, the only people who think ganking is risk free are people who don't do it, have never done it, and have a personal gripe with piracy even being an option. The same people who think buying sec back with those tags is a good idea.
yeah, tags...LOL
They are more a one time thing, not to be used on a regular basis |
Dave Stark
5785
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:37:00 -
[892] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:baltec1 wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:Stuff.
You cant just brush them all away. The risks are there and very real, the only people who think ganking is risk free are people who don't do it, have never done it, and have a personal gripe with piracy even being an option. The same people who think buying sec back with those tags is a good idea. If you convert those "risks" to numbers, I have to say you can't really call a number real if it only has imaginary part. Piracy is fine. Sitting on a gate lazily picking tastiest victim among those who have no choice but to be there is not piracy. The only non-imaginary risk you have in ganking a freighter is being worse than my dog at eve. are you intent upon demonstrating how clueless you are, or are you going to stop posting?
either is fine, but i want to know in advance because i'd hate to miss any subsequent posts of yours. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11639
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:38:00 -
[893] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:baltec1 wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:Stuff.
You cant just brush them all away. The risks are there and very real, the only people who think ganking is risk free are people who don't do it, have never done it, and have a personal gripe with piracy even being an option. The same people who think buying sec back with those tags is a good idea. If you convert those "risks" to numbers, I have to say you can't really call a number real if it only has imaginary part. Piracy is fine. Sitting on a gate lazily picking tastiest victim among those who have no choice but to be there is not piracy. The only non-imaginary risk you have in ganking a freighter is being worse than my dog at eve.
So who forced the freighter to stuff 10 billion into the hold? Ganking is only as easy and profitable as the victim makes it.
Also, funnily enough, the gank Catalyst we use is profitable to gank. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6356
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:42:00 -
[894] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:Stuff.
You cant just brush them all away. The risks are there and very real, the only people who think ganking is risk free are people who don't do it, have never done it, and have a personal gripe with piracy even being an option. The same people who think buying sec back with those tags is a good idea.
Emphasis mine. Pretty sure that's what is really in play with so much of the complaints about ganking. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Mag's
the united
17271
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:43:00 -
[895] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:baltec1 wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:Stuff.
You cant just brush them all away. The risks are there and very real, the only people who think ganking is risk free are people who don't do it, have never done it, and have a personal gripe with piracy even being an option. The same people who think buying sec back with those tags is a good idea. Emphasis mine. Pretty sure that's what is really in play with so much of the complaints about ganking. I have to agree. It's also not real PvP, so I'm told.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Digger Pollard
Why So Platypus
4
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:47:00 -
[896] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Tippia's trademark nonsense derailment snafu.
This will be my one and only counter to Tippia's obvious ******** troll derailment past-time.
Target is a freighter - zero tanking variety. If you don't know he had friends, that makes you worse than my dog at eve, because freighter party is obvious as wood. It must be sitting on top of a freighter or they won't make it to counter gank. With those points in mind, ganking such a freighter means you are worse than my dog at eve and should quit. Gank fleets being ganked are simply impossible, unless they hang right on a gate with a flag on them, in which case they're worse than my dog at eve. Freighters align speed allows to bring in prealigned fleet from a safespot easily. If I have to point it out to you, there are things like freight containers you can deploy from your freighter and put stuff there with another account. Here you go, you have a freighter-load and no flag. But how could you know about it if you're worse than my dog at eve? Loot fairy? You can't have it both ways in a single occurrence, but you WILL have it both ways in a long run. Picking on this point was more likely a trolling though, typical Tippia nonsense.
So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.
From here on I keep ignoring Tippia nonsense till forever. |
Mag's
the united
17273
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:49:00 -
[897] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote: are you intent upon demonstrating how clueless you are, or are you going to stop posting?
either is fine, but i want to know in advance because i'd hate to miss any subsequent posts of yours.
Looks like he is Dave.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Vhelnik Cojoin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:49:00 -
[898] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Whats with this 500,000 freighter pilots? Did you even bother to read what I said?
Also please post said empty freighters.
Yes, I did indeed read what you posted earlier, and what I quoted in one of my previous posts:
baltec1 wrote:We worked out that there are greater chances of you being struck by lightning in RL than getting ganked. Unless you do something silly like stuffing 10 billion in the hold.
However, first things first. I am unsure whether the forum allows direct KB links from this discussion, so you will have to look up the candidates I dug out for you: KillID: 23370943, 23370340, 23342061, 23317011 and 23261890. Please let me know if you are having difficulties using these numbers, and I will try to guide you.
These suicide ganks took place in Isanamo in the month of May 2014, and where the freighter was either completely empty, or very nearly so, to the point where there was no hope of making a profit from the gank. Additionally the pilots were all in NPC corporations, so these kills cannot be explained as being due to pilot error during live wardecs.
There were many more ganks in Isanamo in May, but the pilot was either in a player corp, or the cargo wasn't empty.
Please let me know if you are with me so far. Don't worry, we will take this in small steps, so I don't loose you along the way. Have you Communicated with your fellow capsuleers today? It is good for the EVE-oconomy and o-kay for you. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11639
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:50:00 -
[899] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:Tippia wrote:Tippia's trademark nonsense derailment snafu. This will be my one and only counter to Tippia's obvious ******** troll derailment past-time. Target is a freighter - zero tanking variety. If you don't know he had friends, that makes you worse than my dog at eve, because freighter party is obvious as wood. It must be sitting on top of a freighter or they won't make it to counter gank. With those points in mind, ganking such a freighter means you are worse than my dog at eve and should quit. Gank fleets being ganked are simply impossible, unless they hang right on a gate with a flag on them, in which case they're worse than my dog at eve. Freighters align speed allows to bring in prealigned fleet from a safespot easily. If I have to point it out to you, there are things like freight containers you can deploy from your freighter and put stuff there with another account. Here you go, you have a freighter-load and no flag. But how could you know about it if you're worse than my dog at eve? Loot fairy? You can't have it both ways in a single occurrence, but you WILL have it both ways in a long run. Picking on this point was more likely a trolling though, typical Tippia nonsense. So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve. From here on I keep ignoring Tippia nonsense till forever.
So tell us, how do you spot a booster ship that can be active anywhere in the system? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
605
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:51:00 -
[900] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:If you don't know how to launder your loot with the fleet hangar in an Orca, you really shouldn't be ganking. the freighters picking up the loot are as safe as a baby in its mother womb
Could you explain to me how you pick up a freight package of, let's say 200.000m3 or 400.000m3 without either your Orca or your Freighter pilot going suspect? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
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