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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
528
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:53:09 -
[61] - Quote
Just off the top of my head:
Torm is baller, doesn't need/warrant a buff. Don't balance based purely off usage stats please. Rifter and slasher won't be total poop, yay! Barghest is already arguably OP, these changes push it well into OP zone. Orthrus is baller due to point range and speed/agility, on top of RLMLs, minor DPS reduction doesn't change that. Might want to consider nocking 5m/s off as well
edit: No nerf to the garmur? Are you happy with where it is at compared to other frigs? |
Arcos Vandymion
White Beast Inc.
103
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:59:51 -
[62] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Arcos Vandymion wrote: *(because it'll be a completely different module noone is likely to use because it's even more fringe than TD which is eshewed in favour of damps or jams usually because TDs don't affect missiles)
Guess you missed the part where they are introducing Missile Disruptors this winter. Also, kinetic lock on missiles is AIDS. You talking about this part of my statement that you quoted? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1818
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:00:36 -
[63] - Quote
Garrett Osinov wrote:Can I have my skill points back, which I invested in Gila / Orthurus ?
Gila was an exellent PvE ship !
Why the hell are u ruining ppls game ??? I makes sense to me, if you are changing the ships make a refund for those ships, for those skills !!!
The Gila still is an excellent PVP ship. It just does 35 less DPS if you fit three Drone Damage Amplifier II's instead of four.
This is hardly ruining the game for anyone.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
188
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:07:49 -
[64] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Worm and Gila: Two of the most dominant ships in their classes, we're going to tone them down a bit by bringing their slot numbers in line with most other drone ships. These represent fairly significant nerfs but we feel the ships remain among the strongest in their classes. Currently we have decided to leave the Rattlesnake alone, partially as it's not as dominant in its class as the smaller ships. However we won't rule out future changes.
Worm: -1 Lowslot, -20 CPU Gila: -1 Lowslot, -20 CPU The rattlesnake should have the same treatement. It is an incredibly powerful PvP ship. It probably is seeing less use due to some undesirable traits for large scale fleet use, although in a solo or small gang situation it has overwhelming dps and application when fitted with rapid heavy missiles.
Also did you forget the Garmur?
I like the rest of the changes though, very nice work.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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Garrett Osinov
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:11:40 -
[65] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Garrett Osinov wrote:Can I have my skill points back, which I invested in Gila / Orthurus ?
Gila was an exellent PvE ship !
Why the hell are u ruining ppls game ??? I makes sense to me, if you are changing the ships make a refund for those ships, for those skills !!! The Gila still is an excellent PVP ship. It just does 35 less DPS if you fit three Drone Damage Amplifier II's instead of four. This is hardly ruining the game for anyone.
3 Damage mods + damage control now, after the nerf it will be 2 damage mods + damage control or 3 damage mods. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1818
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:14:26 -
[66] - Quote
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:I know that many people will be unhappy that we're not nerfing the Orthrus harder at this time, but we feel that especially combined with the addition of the missile disruptors we are best served by making this change (which is quite significant by most standards) and observing the results before moving further. What ? Where ? When ? How ? Moooooooore about that !!!!!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=449197&find=unread
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
599
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:16:03 -
[67] - Quote
Fozzie,
Isnt the Muninn needing a balance revisit as well. I see you tweaked the sac, but no muninn? As it stands the Muninn is simply outclassed by the fleet hurricane (which was a good buff to the HFI mind you) in every situation. Fleet cane is comparable in price, insures about the same, has considerably more alpha, comparable range more tracking and more tank in armor/shield fleet config.
Would it be terrible to give minmatar a good brawler that isnt the sleip? Drop a turret off the muninn, increase the damage bonus, and add a mid.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
45
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:27:07 -
[68] - Quote
Why just not to increase Punisher's cap? And also give a bit of everything, but excapt of drones ofc. Now its bit reatrded even with additional low slot.
Also I would give more CPU to Rifter and Slasher than PG, especially for slasher. At least +10 CPU. |
Valkin Mordirc
1546
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:27:41 -
[69] - Quote
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeee
That Barghest is going to be fuckin Nasty,
Also digging the buffs on the Nav-Os and Hookbill.
Arty Rifters and slashers WOOT, and Arty Firetails with tracking bonus is going to be dank.
And for the Tristian being able to project as far as it can, while being able to kite half the things out there, the Nerf is probably a good idea.
AND the Sac gets a drone bay now! Woo! Finally it can break 500dps. XD
Also although I love the Orthrus, Gila and Worm. I'd have to say a nerf is in order. -20 CPU though and -1 low though is OMGWTFBBQ though for the Worm anyways. But I suppose like you said nothing is set in stone. So it can be changed later if things seem to harsh.
Though the Gila will still be doing around 800 with rage and Tech2 Hammers. With Aug Hammers Heated it'll be doing 900. With HAMs anyways.
Love it.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Richard Torvel
The Northern Manufactories
5
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:28:42 -
[70] - Quote
Keep your hands away from my rattlesnake It's only one of few ships which i like + Iinvest a bit of sp in it. |
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1216
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:31:18 -
[71] - Quote
Lidia Caderu wrote:Why just not to increase Punisher's cap? And also give a bit of everything, but excapt of drones ofc. Now its bit reatrded even with additional low slot.
indeed im sure 90% of people want no laser cap bonuses if possible, less turrets, better mid slot layouts and much better cap regen compared too the other 3 races.
on punisher i suggest -1 high +1 lowslot keep current damage bonus increase mass/speed/agility - much higher cap regen
T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely.
ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
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ValentinaDLM
Khushakor Clan Matari Safari
797
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:35:26 -
[72] - Quote
Rifter could use a bit more, like why not +10 CPU +5 PG at least?
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Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance
192
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:38:25 -
[73] - Quote
RIP orthrus/gila, you were fun until fozzie bashed your brains in with the nerf bat. |
Valkin Mordirc
1547
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:40:38 -
[74] - Quote
Murkar Omaristos wrote:RIP orthrus/gila, you were fun until fozzie bashed your brains in with the nerf bat.
The Gila will live on. It's not that much of a damage nerf to it. Passive fit Gila's take a huge it though, but PvP wise they are still pretty much going strong. I can probably see another nerf its future.
Not to sure about the Worm though.
#DeleteTheWeak
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1777
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:42:54 -
[75] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Garrett Osinov wrote:Can I have my skill points back, which I invested in Gila / Orthurus ?
Gila was an exellent PvE ship !
Why the hell are u ruining ppls game ??? I makes sense to me, if you are changing the ships make a refund for those ships, for those skills !!! The Gila still is an excellent PVP ship. It just does 35 less DPS if you fit three Drone Damage Amplifier II's instead of four. This is hardly ruining the game for anyone.
Quite right, the Gila will still be an excellent PVP ship with either a little less damage, or a little less tank.
However PVP is not the only use for this ship, It is widely used with a passive tank in cap hostile environments. Removing a low effectively makes this ship sub-effective in this role. Particuarly in hostile PVE environments with a strong chance of involuntary PVP.
If however a missile launcher was removed, it would affect PVP and PVE equally without destroying the PVE role.
Would that not be better?
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1216
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:46:14 -
[76] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Garrett Osinov wrote:Can I have my skill points back, which I invested in Gila / Orthurus ?
Gila was an exellent PvE ship !
Why the hell are u ruining ppls game ??? I makes sense to me, if you are changing the ships make a refund for those ships, for those skills !!! The Gila still is an excellent PVP ship. It just does 35 less DPS if you fit three Drone Damage Amplifier II's instead of four. This is hardly ruining the game for anyone. Quite right, the Gila will still be an excellent PVP ship with either a little less damage, or a little less tank. However PVP is not the only use for this ship, It is widely used with a passive tank in cap hostile environments. Removing a low effectively makes this ship sub-effective in this role. Particuarly in hostile PVE environments with a strong chance of PVP. If however a missile launcher was removed, it would affect PVP and PVE equally without destroying the PVE role. Would that not be better?
i could see a launcher aswell as the -1 highslot working as an alternative to - lowslot it might end up with less dps mind, especially as one less launcher too OH.
T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely.
ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
801
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:51:12 -
[77] - Quote
Maybe give gila some extra passive shield regen to make passive tanks viable, I don't use them but 3 lowslot gilas can no longer attain viable passive tanks
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Valkin Mordirc
1547
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:53:48 -
[78] - Quote
Also as a note, I'm really surprised the Garmur wasn't on this list. It's probably the most popular faction frig out there right now with good reason.
I know Zkill and looking at it's numbers can be deceiving sometimes but
Total kills Tristan:2975 Fed Navy Comet::2964 Garmur: 2,525 Daredevil: 1885 Dram: 1506 Worm 1444
Now we all know the Worm is OP. And We can probably agree the Daredevil and Dram are in pretty good place. But we can also say the Tristan in somewhat OP, but it's cheap as balls, and the Fed Navy is about the same.
We can also say the Garmur is a cancer as with links and sebo can point you out in ridiculous ranges.
#DeleteTheWeak
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1778
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:53:57 -
[79] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Garrett Osinov wrote:Can I have my skill points back, which I invested in Gila / Orthurus ?
Gila was an exellent PvE ship !
Why the hell are u ruining ppls game ??? I makes sense to me, if you are changing the ships make a refund for those ships, for those skills !!! The Gila still is an excellent PVP ship. It just does 35 less DPS if you fit three Drone Damage Amplifier II's instead of four. This is hardly ruining the game for anyone. Quite right, the Gila will still be an excellent PVP ship with either a little less damage, or a little less tank. However PVP is not the only use for this ship, It is widely used with a passive tank in cap hostile environments. Removing a low effectively makes this ship sub-effective in this role. Particuarly in hostile PVE environments with a strong chance of PVP. If however a missile launcher was removed, it would affect PVP and PVE equally without destroying the PVE role. Would that not be better? i could see a launcher aswell as the -1 highslot working as an alternative to -1 lowslot it might end up with less dps mind, especially as one less launcher too OH.
Agreed, losing a launcher is not insignificant, but I believe will provide the balance point without having to revisit it for another nerf. It also balances both PVP and PVE needs effectively and does not retire the Gila as a Cap warfare resistant PVE ship. Loss of a launchers damage can be handled, loss of a low slot changes it's available roles completely.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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ArmyOfMe
Hull Breach. Outnumbered.
476
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:56:16 -
[80] - Quote
I dont really see enough worms and gilas around to say if they should be nerfed or not. However, could you please look into the muninn, as it has issues on all levels atm, and cant compete with other hac's in any way. It can snipe, but the pg required for artys make it impossible to make a good setup (something i can live with, as the tornado is better anyways). But i would really love to see the Muninn being able to compete up close and personal with ac's, which it just cant atm.
Other then that, i like the changes, and love the changes to the sac.
QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken
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Alexis Nightwish
337
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:57:13 -
[81] - Quote
Another failed opportunity to put a drone cruiser in the right place.
Worm: 300% bonus to Light Combat Drone damage and hitpoints
Rattle: 275% bonus to Sentry Drone and Heavy Drone damage and hitpoints
Gila: 500% bonus to Medium Combat Drone damage and hitpoints
The only thing you have to do to the Gila is change the broken as **** 500% bonus to 300%. That's it! So easy!
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1218
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:02:03 -
[82] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:Another failed opportunity to put a drone cruiser in the right place.
Worm: 300% bonus to Light Combat Drone damage and hitpoints
Rattle: 275% bonus to Sentry Drone and Heavy Drone damage and hitpoints
Gila: 500% bonus to Medium Combat Drone damage and hitpoints
The only thing you have to do to the Gila is change the broken as **** 500% bonus to 300%. That's it! So easy!
i would rather see normal 5 drones on them with the gal bonus being slightly better than the normal 10% drone damage/HP so that hammerheads would still be strong but not as OP as they are now on them, but the -1 slot is mandatory for all droneboats and why its took them this long too realize gurista ships should follow this aswell is bizzare and the rattle should certainly follow this aswell, but i would agree with the thought of -1 high and launcher over -1 low slot
T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely.
ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1778
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:03:25 -
[83] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:Another failed opportunity to put a drone cruiser in the right place.
Worm: 300% bonus to Light Combat Drone damage and hitpoints
Rattle: 275% bonus to Sentry Drone and Heavy Drone damage and hitpoints
Gila: 500% bonus to Medium Combat Drone damage and hitpoints
The only thing you have to do to the Gila is change the broken as **** 500% bonus to 300%. That's it! So easy!
Remember it does only have two drones, and previously was able to launch full flights of sentries or heavy drones.
Damage is applied by the Gila through both missiles and drones, I would argue, that if damage is too high, the missile side of the equation may be a better place to address.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
446
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:10:17 -
[84] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Damage is applied by the Gila through both missiles and drones, I would argue, that if damage is too high, the missile side of the equation may be a better place to address. The incoming missile disruption modules are going to take care of this.
I would like to make sure the Gila is still able to run C3 wormhole PVE sites with passive shield recharge tank. Giving it a bit of a passive recharge shield boost to compensate from losing a Shield Power Relay lowslot would be one way to do it.
Other way would be to leave the lowslot, and slightly reduce the drone damage role bonus. But it sounds like the slot layout is part of the problem here.
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Matt Faithbringer
Rapid Withdrawal
23
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:10:28 -
[85] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:6 cloaky protopedes
FTFY
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
289
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:11:59 -
[86] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Punisher: [i]Let's talk about the Punisher. Quite a few people have asked about missile Punishers, but we currently aren't huge fans of dropping a missile T1 frigate into Amarr's stable without having solid support all along the T1 lineup for a missile-focused skillplan. With only Khanid T2 ships (and unbonused launchers on the droneships) further along the path, we feel this would act as a confusing set of breadcrumbs for a new player to follow. We also think that the "laser tank and gank" archetype deserves to be represented in Amarrian T1 frigates, especially to provide a less skill-intensive alternative to the Tormentor.
The prophecy and armageddon were changed into drone boats with unbonused but flexible hardpoints. Currently there is no [combat] cruiser or frigate for the noobs to train before they go into those boats.
A side effect of this punisher change removes the last utility high in the amarr frigate lineup as well, with the exception of the executioner.
My suggestion for the punisher is to turn it into a mini prophecy/geddon. Doesn't need to be a full compliment of drones or even have a drone damage bonus.
3H/3M/4L with 2 turret and 2 launcher hardpoints or 3/3 depending on drone bandwidth
resistance bonus drone tracking/hp?
20m3 bandwidth and decent dronebay
It's something that's missing from the amarr lineup.
gallente = tristan/algos/vexor/myrm/domi
amarr = dragoon/proph/geddon
I suppose one could argue and include the ewar ships, but that's more like....... crucifier/arbitrator/curse/pilgrim
With this change and a similar change to the maller, the amarr drone boat progression could be........
punisher/dragoon/maller/proph/geddon
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Arla Sarain
673
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:15:38 -
[87] - Quote
3 ACs are bad.
Instead you focus on artillery fits :D
FYI Arty rifters are a thing and are pretty fine.
AC Slashers do not live without TDs. AC Rifters are outdone by Null loaded neutron atrons, or anything that fits rails or lasers.
Overall, pretty underwhelming. Slasher remain a predictable hard counter, and Rifters remain irrelevant. Could atleast give it some speed to reinforce its strength and relieve pressure from plate fits. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1778
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:21:12 -
[88] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Damage is applied by the Gila through both missiles and drones, I would argue, that if damage is too high, the missile side of the equation may be a better place to address. The incoming missile disruption modules are going to take care of this. I would like to make sure the Gila is still able to run C3 wormhole PVE sites with passive shield recharge tank. Giving it a bit of a passive recharge shield boost to compensate from losing a Shield Power Relay lowslot would be one way to do it. Other way would be to leave the lowslot, and slightly reduce the drone damage role bonus. But it sounds like the slot layout is part of the problem here.
I am trying to offer a suggestion, that satisfies the need to reduce the applied damage from a Gila coupled with a strong tank. I think that CCP are uncomfortable with a strong drone biased ship having too many slots.
This leads us to either remove a high slot or a low, mids would be quite extreme to remove on this ship.
Removing either a high or a low will reduce available DPS. And should resolve the issue.
However while removing a high is a complete solution, as you point out, removing a low will require repeated balance passes to bring the Gila back into a healthy state, viable for both PVE and PVP.
I hope Gila users both PVE and PVP will agree, and CCP too. We all knew this day would come, and I am sure most are willing to accept that we will lose some damage capability.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Mr Spaxi
52
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:21:36 -
[89] - Quote
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
Punisher: Let's talk about the Punisher. Quite a few people have asked about missile Punishers, but we currently aren't huge fans of dropping a missile T1 frigate into Amarr's stable without having solid support all along the T1 lineup for a missile-focused skillplan. With only Khanid T2 ships (and unbonused launchers on the droneships) further along the path, we feel this would act as a confusing set of breadcrumbs for a new player to follow. We also think that the "laser tank and gank" archetype deserves to be represented in Amarrian T1 frigates, especially to provide a less skill-intensive alternative to the Tormentor. We don't expect it to become a dominant solo powerhouse for veterans, but it will continue to be extremely good as a newer player PVE boat and to strengthen its (quite niche) existing role in T1 frigate gangs. The two midslot layout definitely hurts the ship's power and flexibility, but that can be an interesting tradeoff if compensated for in other ways. These changes give the Punisher one more slot than most T1 frigs, and increase damage slightly (4 effective turrets instead of 3.75) while reducing weapon cap use and adding the significant buff of an extra lowslot. In exchange it loses its utility high.
+1 Turret +1 Lowslot +10 PWG +13 CPU Replace the 5% damage bonus with -10% laser cap use per level
What? this is the opposite of what everyone wanted. The punisher is slow as crap, unagile and cannot web anything. Because it can't web it can't keep up even with merlins purely because of WEBS. 2 mid slots is abhorrent. The punisher needs the webifier to compete with the other brawlers. giving it a 5th lowslot doesn't do anything but allow me to fit some non-utility mod like a nanofiber or overdrive. The 10% cap usage bonus again? its a crutch bonus because lasers just gobble cap meanwhile you now have 3 frigates with the SAME cap usage bonus and no other 2nd combat bonus like every other ship in the game gets. Unsurprisingly the Tormentor and Executioner have the SAME ship bonuses, the only two ships in the game to have such an unoriginal set up.
Not every ship is designed to be used solo, and Punisher is not a solo frigate unless you fit it in a very gimped way. However, -1mid ships (like the Punisher) have a very strong use elsewhere, and this change of slots is going to help it.
However, I agree that keeping the damage bonus, -1 high, +1 low is the way to go.
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Dzhiku Aslan
MamenkinbI CbInki
14
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:23:43 -
[90] - Quote
change caracal navy issue too pls. It worse than t1 variant/ |
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