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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Jacob Majestic
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:25:00 -
[781]
Originally by: thesulei I wish everybody who hasn't got a clue would stop throwing around wild accusations.
I have known t20 since before he became a CCP employee, and I can verify first hand that he has owned that malediction bpo since forever, probably since before alot of you whiners started playing.
He made a very grave mistake, but false accusations at this point are all too easy and it should stop.
You know, you're right. We shouldn't make false allegations.
Like that time when a certain alliance got a Hel from an event. An event that required three freighter's worth of material to be delivered to a certain station. When there is fraps of them only docking a single freighter and then completing the event. That petition was denied, by the way, which means that the allegations were false, right?
Or maybe that time when a certain alliance shot ships inside a POS shield and could lock them from inside the shield. There's fraps of that as well, by the way. That petition was denied, which means that the allegations were false, right?
When GM actions are a black box, all allegations are false until a GM declares them true. Is that the EVE you want to play?
---
Check out LV's scouting technique! |
Astorothe
Ono-Sensai
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:25:00 -
[782]
I'm a long time player, and one who usually avoids the forum-politics. However, this issue is really shocking and disappointing. A little of the Eve magic has just been snuffed out.
I believe T20's actions are just the tip of the proverbial ice-berg.
A terrible shame - my corp mates and I we're just about to enter low sec space together and make a real go of it too. A game is unusual in that it relies on a high level of trust between players and the developers to prevent any sort of meta-gaming/cheating from occurring. This is just horribly deceitful on the part of the developers - all of them sullied by the uncovered actions of one.
Eve Screen Saver |
Cyrus Ildemar
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:25:00 -
[783]
Edited by: Cyrus Ildemar on 10/02/2007 01:23:16
Originally by: Philo Farnsworth I'd certainly like to see investigations of account sharing in Goonswarm, specifically the Jacob Majestic/The Mitanni characters. I'd also like to see an answer as to why the Goonswarm alliance was not punished for a widespread, systematic abuse of the Eve client, with their well-documented portrait hack. Finally, disturbing allegations have been raised about Goonswarm's GTC ring, and the exploiting of complexes by RA.
I would hate there to be a one-sided witch hunt. Eve should be cleaned up EVERYWHERE. As a regular paying customer, I do not want to see an unbalanced investigation. Your efforts should not just stop at t20/BoB. Instead, widespread abuses throughout the game, such as those by Goonswarm and Red Alliance, must be addressed.
Thanks!
That's fair. If all major alliances are investigated, the results are all made public, and the punishments are consistent, then I am absolutely in favour of a full audit of all of us.
If things go they way they have been going, though, it'll end up with something like "these 3 GoonSwarm members have been found to be account sharing, and have been banned. We have unfortunately lost the logs for BoB in an unexpected server crash. Whoops!"
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:26:00 -
[784]
Shocking!
Absolutely shocking. That is all I can think of at the moment.
That a dev helped out his buddies? Well, was a mistake and my only advice for this dev is to seek out a counsellor because he risked his job for a computer game? Then is something wrong. But no, that is not was is shocking. Happened, happens, will happen.
The shocking part is that CCP knew about this for many months and did nothing!! THAT is the really disgusting thing.
CCP, how can we trust you that you are honest with us when you give us so little information and only when the community pushed you a lot before?
Make the rules clear what devs are allowed to do and what not, same with GMs and Event Managers. Give us a list of devs, GMs etc. Who is responsible for what?
Don't forbid discussion about GM decisions! Why forbid it if you don't have anything to hide? What do you fear there? Transparency helps to get back trust.
I'm sorry for this dev t20 that he lost contact to the real life so much. Hopefully this event will open his eyes again about the important things in life. Good luck to the person behind t20 even if he disappointed many people.
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Jelan
Caldari Fusion Enterprises Ltd The Fifth Race
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:26:00 -
[785]
You know I only ever post into the recruitment thread as a rule, can't stand forums personnally... However i feel moved by this, I will simply say;
A) Our whistle blower made this a fairer place so re-instate him
B) You will do what you want unless enough people protest
C)T20 can i have your stuff, or will you be transferring it to another character? See us at www.fusion-enterprises.co.uk |
Kiwimagic
Caldari Star Ocean Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:26:00 -
[786]
Quote: developer misconduct
Well its been rumor for a long time BoB having "extra" support from dev's, confirmation at last.
There is still the issue of how many other Dev's are doing the same, T20 was caught by chance. how many other dev's have been doing similar things that didn't get caught??
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Jacob Majestic
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:27:00 -
[787]
Originally by: Pellaeon DuGalle 2) I can't imagine those BPOs would swing any battles one way or another.
You can't see how CHEAP SABRES could possibly SWING BATTLES?
Are we even playing the same game?
---
Check out LV's scouting technique! |
Steve Holt
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:28:00 -
[788]
Edited by: Steve Holt on 10/02/2007 01:26:49 Please remain constructive - Serathu ([email protected])
Oh please, at least delete the NPC corp troll slandering us over petty bs.
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merc999
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:28:00 -
[789]
The person who exposed , what has now been admitted to be Dev misconduct, should be praised by CCP if they truly want to clean up the game from corruption.
Banning a whistleblowers account will only deter others from coming forward and helping CCP clean up the game.
Bad move CCP , re-instate the accounts
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Ulti Mate
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:29:00 -
[790]
Has this been reported to the Police by CCP? All players agree to be bound by the same terms and conditions when agreeing to activate and pay for an account. Did anybody see where it was stated that an employee was exempt form the terms and conditions. We have all been decieved by T20's illegal/ criminal actions in which he has acted as a representative of CCP/ DEV and indirectly taken our money under false pretences. After all, who would have agreed to pay, knowing that you would be cheated by the people you payed to police and protect your game time?
T20 and co-conspiritors at CCP to keep their jobs? Certainley not. The should be facing criminal procedings.European law has protocols for criminal activity via telecommunications networks and I suspect that more than moral offences have been committed here.
T20 and others at CCP should be dismissed for gross misconduct and named in a public statement, preventing them from obtaining work within the industry with any other reputable company. CCP have a simple task here. Publicly acknowledge and decry the behaviour of those responsible or accept that significant and lasting damage has been dealt to CCP, who then failed to protect its clients from the dishonesty discovered by whistleblowing and not by admission.
Please consider CCP's response before you recommend the game we all love to family and friends. CCP cannot allow this to be forgotten and forgiven as it undermines that fantastic work conducted daily by the honest CCP staff.
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Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:29:00 -
[791]
Originally by: Jacob Majestic
Originally by: Pellaeon DuGalle 2) I can't imagine those BPOs would swing any battles one way or another.
You can't see how CHEAP SABRES could possibly SWING BATTLES?
Are we even playing the same game?
Sabers are pretty cheap, I would imagine even cheaper for RA and thier complex exploiting tactics! Stop being one sided, really, its growing tiresome. __________________________________________ -= We Fly for our people =- -= I fly for Blood =- |
Lord XSiV
Amarr The Nine Gates
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:29:00 -
[792]
Originally by: Jacob Majestic
Originally by: ph33rf4ct0ry CCp> Hi K you got those logs from RKK you hacked from their server? K> sure do right here CCP> listen while you are at it, can you hack into DICE EVOL BNC as well and see what you can dig up? CCP> Can you do D2 next month, I mean if it fits in your schedule or stealing from the FBI and such? K> Ok ill get to work on that right now
Talked to him like that? LOL
CCP should hire K. If one guy can find out in a couple weeks what CCP's internal controls miss for eight months, who knows what other skeletons are left to uncover?
That is quite an insult to those of us in the profession. You don't hire some script kid to test your defenses or to do an audit. It is pure plain lunacy. First, fox in hen house comes to mind. Second is these guys are no where near the same level of skill and expertise as true blackhats.
Keep him banned, he is a disgrace not only to Eve but to the Internet in general.
Please don't troll - Serathu ([email protected])
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:30:00 -
[793]
Originally by: Jacob Majestic And for everyone wanting to give this event a pass, you have no idea how much damage can be caused by a little impropriety by CCP devs or GMs.
For example, did you know that we were supposed to have an entirely new pirate race now?
New ships, new gear, new faction items, new officers.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a new pirate faction with a compelling backstory in the new regions rather than those lame rogue drones that exist only to make you money off drone shards?
Wanna know why we don't have the new content?
A member of the event team (who shall remain nameless) leaked details of the new pirate faction to other members of a certain in-game alliance (which shall also remain nameless).
The new pirate faction was scrapped, wasting months of work on the part of the event team.
I will stab all you apologists in the face with truth.
Sounds like speculation, hearsay, and conspiracy, or do you have evidence to back this rather large claim?
Also, I kinda like the rogue drones out in the new areas, if done properly they could be quite interesting, and a breath of fresh air from yet another pirate faction.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Kerushi
Caldari Black Thorne Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:31:00 -
[794]
btw, letting kugutsumen back in game after braeking the rules, would be the same as letting T20 stay, double standards ftw
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Tainos
Amarria Auxilia Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:31:00 -
[795]
Please remain constructive - Serathu ([email protected])
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Cyrus Ildemar
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:31:00 -
[796]
Edited by: Cyrus Ildemar on 10/02/2007 01:27:57 Devs have responded
Their responses so far seem to involve "well, we can't talk about it in detail, but we've read your suggestions and we have decided to ignore them! It's for the best, really."
Let's see how it goes.
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Happydayz
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:31:00 -
[797]
wait wait wait.
from the CEO:
Quote: A pivotal case was uncovered last summer during a routine investigation of developer accounts
yet apparently the illegally spawned BPO's were only removed from RKK's hangar a FEW DAYS AGO.
what is this?! What kind of horrible and incredibly lax investigation did CCP conduct the first time around in June that you let something like this slip by?
Why didn't your much vaunted "internal affairs" division immediately start investigating past incidences of abuse?
If they did, why were they unable to uncover such an abuse on their own without third party prodding?
Quote: It is our hopes these Blogs will address the remainder of the EVE community's concerns over these allegations.
The community's concern right now isn't that CCP or the devs are biased towards BoB. Only the most idiotic of people would think that. The concern is that there are systemic defects within CCP that allows rampant abuse like this to occur. The fact that you TRIED to investigate such matters through the establishment of a new work division and yet still failed to uncover what a third party did without your resources is absolutely astonishing.
All of that is coupled with the fact that CCP felt compelled to cover up abuse that happened over 7 months ago until they were literally FORCED to bring it to light, and then only grudingly with the total banning of all of that person's ingame characters.
This is another part of the problem: your ill-advised attempt to conduct a cover up. The devs I'm sure know that this is a high stakes game, much unlike World of Warcraft. People play the game in large part because they know that weeks or even months of their effort can be permanently undone by a foe that outmanuevers, outthinks, or simply outblobs them.
All of this is accepted because we believe our defeats are incurred through ingame superiority on the parts of our enemies.
t20's abuse clearly destroys this concept. But what is particularly damaging is that there was a coverup done. The game community understands that INDIVIDUALS can sometimes screw up and conduct unethical behavior. What we expect however is for CCP to deal with these individuals in a fair and most importantly transparent manner.
What CCP's coverup has done is throw a shround on every person's actions in this game.
Since we now know that CCP will attempt to bury any developer/GM/ISD misdeed, the basic belief of fairness that underlies everything in this game is destroyed. Again, people can accept when the outpost they spent weeks/months grinding for gets taken by a superior foe, or if their newly purchased faction battleship gets blown up because of their own momentary careless, ONLY if they believe it happened fairly.
But now there is no longer any guarantee that such ingame consequences were the result of fair play. Why? Because we now know that CCP employees are willing to cheat, that the ingame mechanisms to control this may and in fact have already failed, and most importantly that CCP will never admit to such errors unless the player is willing to resort to extreme/illegal measures in order to garner out of game proof.
gg CCP
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IroN HiDE
Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:31:00 -
[798]
Originally by: Lone Bear Nice to see some Witch Hunt going on, nice to see a rebellion for pixels in an online computer game.
Sad to see you dont follow the same conduct about modern slavery, mutilations, human rights being forgotten, your liberty being gone.
Nice to see some enslaved minds going wild for some kilo bites.
Flame me away if that can make your small ego feel greater, you're making me sick, lot of you should go see a shrink and look at what's going on around you so precious "eve character".
Anyway, as a teacher, I'll try to lighten the mind of the youngsters about relativity, elders have been lost forever.
Eve is a game, we all play it, we all put time into it... the only reason you arn't mad, is because you are on the other end of the stick...
i can't beleive you have the stones to even make a post like this...
enjoy your exploit my ego is still the same |
meepsheep
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:32:00 -
[799]
Originally by: keiron Originally by: Various EVE community members in different forms Why is t20 still employed?
Here is a quote from Hellmar's Dev Blog
Originally by: The CommitmentUnfortunately CCP did not act with the same decisive consistency we have used on previous occasions. Those left at the helm chose to react cautiously, as sometimes is appropriate under these circumstances, leading to more leniency and understanding than we are used to in these matters.
Internally, this incident was discovered over the summer when the majority of the senior company staff was on vacation. This lead to the caution against taking more harsh measures such as termination of employment. T20 was punished at the time for his misconduct. To terminate t20's employment now would appease some of the more emotional members of the community, but it would also be unfair to punish someone twice for the same misconduct.
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
then why did ccp keep this quiet then? is this punishment you speak of just ccp taking his character away? that would have happened to any regular players account for cheating! so i hope that isnt all the punishment he got.
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Voltron
Caldari Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:32:00 -
[800]
Originally by: Lone Bear
Sad to see you dont follow the same conduct about modern slavery, mutilations, human rights being forgotten, your liberty being gone.
Sad to see you think this forum is the only avenue people would use to pursue said issues.
Some of us voice our opinions regarding those issues in different places and different venues, most of which are not electronic.
This forum in particular is for issues regarding CCP, not the above mentioned atrocities.
Keep your eye on the ball m8, don't try and derail with those issues, they deserves better.
Volt
It's great touching your own dink isn't it?
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Esaam DeVries
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:32:00 -
[801]
For one dev that cheated, how many didn't ? They all must feel pretty low cause they love this game as much as us. I think we should keep this in mind. I personnally believe in the second chance for everyone, including T20. I'd like to add that I really do hope he won't get fired for this because no in-game action deserves to have someone loosing their job and living in the stress of finding another one.
As a conclusion, I want to ask CCP - as a proof of their good will - to send me all their women so I can start my mourning. It will be long... But I'll survive, somehow
-- "Please, would you tell me," said Alice, a little timidly, ... "why your cat grins like that?" "It's a Cheshire cat," said the Duchess, "and that's why." http://www.evetrust.com |
Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:32:00 -
[802]
Removed reference to deleted post - Serathu ([email protected]) __________________________________________ -= We Fly for our people =- -= I fly for Blood =- |
Bosie
Tenacious Warriors Acquiring Technology
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:32:00 -
[803]
Best thing to do is talk with you cash, both my accounts have been canceled until CCP does what needs to be done. That's if they do, but history has shown us that they lack the balls (IPO scams and forum warrior feet stamping?)
Originally by: CCP's homepage We care more We work harder.
"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND."
...Winston |
aggro
Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:32:00 -
[804]
Edited by: aggro on 10/02/2007 01:31:32 Can we have an official statement from bob on all this.
Who knew what was going on etc. What they plan to do. Apologise to all of eve over there actions
Those that took the poison chalice owe it to the honest members in BOB to try and restore the pride they once had in there alliance.
If this does not happen BOB will become a dirty word. the words cheat,hax,exploits will follow them everywhere
Anyone who lose a ship to a bob gang will always wonder if there was something underhand going on. Also if you kill a bob guy. Will he get his ship back using petitions or just see it back in his hanger when he docks up.
The silence from BOB directors etc is deafening
Where there is trouble you will always find AGGRO |
Akoudoulos
Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:33:00 -
[805]
Edited by: Akoudoulos on 10/02/2007 01:29:43
Originally by: kieron Originally by: Various EVE community members in different forms --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is t20 still employed? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a quote from Hellmar's Dev Blog
Originally by: The Commitment -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unfortunately CCP did not act with the same decisive consistency we have used on previous occasions. Those left at the helm chose to react cautiously, as sometimes is appropriate under these circumstances, leading to more leniency and understanding than we are used to in these matters. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internally, this incident was discovered over the summer when the majority of the senior company staff was on vacation. This lead to the caution against taking more harsh measures such as termination of employment. T20 was punished at the time for his misconduct. To terminate t20's employment now would appease some of the more emotional members of the community, but it would also be unfair to punish someone twice for the same misconduct.
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
You had info about this one since the summer and you did not remove the bpos??????? What was your plan about this one? if/when the community founds out then we will remove the prints???
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Arcticblue2
Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:33:00 -
[806]
Well... I do feel bad this have happend to my favorite game through 3 years now, I have spent lots of time refering to this game on various forums and bragging about this being the greatest game and so on...
This case really make me feel stupid and all, note that the game is great... but what happen have made me doubt that some corp/alliances are playing fair.
Now whatever that is going to happen with T20 I don't want to ask for his head... I will feel sorry for him if he looses his job but I do understand that he broke a rule you guys have and so it must probably be something happend there.
To T20, I accept your appology... and I know it must have been very very very hard for you to write what you did.
Now .. apart from those bpo's... what will happend to BoB members who have broken EULA ? the whole thing where bob have seems to be invincible seems too suspicious now with recent happenings. You have stated that you banned the whistleblower for breach of EULA what about BoB members breaking the EULA ?
To end this I must admit it is hard for me to thinking I should continue playing this great game... I have not been very active latly but feel I got a sort of obligation to my corp members but still you guys in CCP do have a huge work ahead to fix this issues now.
For now I will still keep the accounts... while I wait to see what you guys will do to fix this issues.
---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor. |
Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:33:00 -
[807]
This is a Serious black eye for CCP. The fact that this has happened and was said only by a whistle blower and that CCP took action to supress this information via banning and other fascist policies.
Assuming that this is the limit of the transgresions, and I doubt it is, BoB's reputation is almost completely ruined. Furthermore, we have to consider the fact that under this assistance BoB has taken on and destroyed multiple alliances and altered the political situation of Eve in a number of dramatic ways. In fact BoB is the most powerful force in the game and now that will be attributed back to the developers. This casts doubt on the alliance tournaments and every single event surrounding BoB. Typically an investigator only uncovers the tip of the iceberg and the remaining iceberg could be dismal.
Possibly the only possible resolution to resolve the situation would be to ban the accounts involved, sieze all tech 2 BPOs and cash accounts by the members and to disolve BOB and its member corporations. Extreme? Yes. But this cheating has had a MAJOR effect on the game over the last 6 months.
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Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:35:00 -
[808]
Originally by: Arcticblue2 Well... I do feel bad this have happend to my favorite game through 3 years now, I have spent lots of time refering to this game on various forums and bragging about this being the greatest game and so on...
This case really make me feel stupid and all, note that the game is great... but what happen have made me doubt that some corp/alliances are playing fair.
Now whatever that is going to happen with T20 I don't want to ask for his head... I will feel sorry for him if he looses his job but I do understand that he broke a rule you guys have and so it must probably be something happend there.
To T20, I accept your appology... and I know it must have been very very very hard for you to write what you did.
Now .. apart from those bpo's... what will happend to BoB members who have broken EULA ? the whole thing where bob have seems to be invincible seems too suspicious now with recent happenings. You have stated that you banned the whistleblower for breach of EULA what about BoB members breaking the EULA ?
To end this I must admit it is hard for me to thinking I should continue playing this great game... I have not been very active latly but feel I got a sort of obligation to my corp members but still you guys in CCP do have a huge work ahead to fix this issues now.
For now I will still keep the accounts... while I wait to see what you guys will do to fix this issues.
what about the other alliances getting stuff for free, and insider info, why stop at just BoB? __________________________________________ -= We Fly for our people =- -= I fly for Blood =- |
Reachok
Amarr Low Grade Ore
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:36:00 -
[809]
Originally by: Cyrus Ildemar Beyond all the things that have been brought up, I'd like to bring up an issue that came up yesterday.
A GM was spotted in a Polaris Frigate in 28y, warping from moon to moon. This was a day before BoB declared that they would attack us. We have screenshots, and the GM's name.
Frankly, I don't mean to be paranoid or accuse anyone of improper conduct without proof, but perhaps given the circumstances, some tinfoil hattery is justified.
Was there a reason for that GM to be checking out our moons? Is this going to be a regular feature of this war?
Buried deep in the first few posts is this post. Had that GM been flying a plain inty, using normal mods, he'd have not been noticed. Or noticed but not pointed out as a GM blatantly misusing his powers. I'm sure the logs will show him there.
But, my main reason for writing this: How do you undo all the advantage given BoB by the GM being in that alliance? I'm not talking about the BPO's either, although they are a part of this whole mess. I'm talking about insider info. I'm talking about the mysterious lag bombs that almost always preceded a BoB gang or fleet operation. BoB always claimed it was their training, and or proper use of the overview settings that allowed them to win in a battle where the other side has had their computers slow to a 1 frame per second crawl. How do you, how CAN you undo all of that? BoB's so called wins are now under question. You really should do something that sends a clear message to the entire Eve community that not only will Dev's be dealt with harshly for doing this, but the alliance/corporation that they are in will likewise be dealt with harshly. Anything else is a snow job, and a great disservice to the thousands of players that play by the rules every day.
Par'Gellen > I reject your reality and substitute my own. |
Kerushi
Caldari Black Thorne Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.10 01:36:00 -
[810]
Originally by: meepsheep
Originally by: keiron Originally by: Various EVE community members in different forms Why is t20 still employed?
Here is a quote from Hellmar's Dev Blog
Originally by: The CommitmentUnfortunately CCP did not act with the same decisive consistency we have used on previous occasions. Those left at the helm chose to react cautiously, as sometimes is appropriate under these circumstances, leading to more leniency and understanding than we are used to in these matters.
Internally, this incident was discovered over the summer when the majority of the senior company staff was on vacation. This lead to the caution against taking more harsh measures such as termination of employment. T20 was punished at the time for his misconduct. To terminate t20's employment now would appease some of the more emotional members of the community, but it would also be unfair to punish someone twice for the same misconduct.
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
then why did ccp keep this quiet then? is this punishment you speak of just ccp taking his character away? that would have happened to any regular players account for cheating! so i hope that isnt all the punishment he got.
others get fired, he stays... send him on a 1 month payed vacation to look for another job
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