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Lucas Avignon Avignon Associates Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.04 05:25:00 - [5341] Originally by: Clarissa Winterborn Thought I'd record my prediction here so that it can be date/time stamped for posterity. The next move by CCP to try and gouge extra money from us to fund their vampire MMO is going to be to raise the fee for transferring characters. You heard it here first. With all the people out there consolidating alt accounts now due to the training change, this move will be seen by the brighter lights at CCP as a way to cash in extra revenue while the customers reduce the number of accounts they play dramatically. Perhaps they will even rationalize that it might dissuade the occasional player from consolidating accounts and keep the account open long term. I'm sure they have looked at that as an option, on a side note they are getting some nice money from character transfers but as it stands from looking at online stats, they are down quite a bit. If we look at this weeks highest which is over 5k less than the record last March and no one can say it's just the summer effect as we are now in November. If you also take into account the fact that most of the people that are going to quit are still in the middle of their subscriptions, 2009 could be the most lag free year in Eve's history Originally by: CCP Prism X Yeah, and while we're at it we can create a controlled environment around account hacking and credit card fraud and all the other EULA breaches..
Richard Aiel Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.11.04 06:03:00 - [5342] anyone else just waitin for the click from CCP on this thread? ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------
Shiu	Posted - 2008.11.04 09:01:00 - [5343] Seriously, get over it. The current financial crisis has hit everyone, even CCP. Im surprised this change wasnt announced earlier. They did indeed screw up when they said it was a bug, but tbh I dont blame them for making this decision with the current state the world economy is in.
Rasik Argimater	Posted - 2008.11.04 09:05:00 - [5344] Originally by: Richard Aiel anyone else just waitin for the click from CCP on this thread? I doesn't matter. The Eve Forums are mirrored elsewhere, including deleted posts. And if they make it difficult or impossible for us to voice our opinions here, someone will start up a ccpsucks board and they will have no control whatsoever over posts there. Originally by: Clarissa Winterborn The next move by CCP to try and gouge extra money from us to fund their vampire MMO is going to be to raise the fee for transferring characters. Char transfer is already too expensive. For me, declining interest in Eve also means reduced desire to consolidate remaining chars and pay CCP for the privilege. I'd rather leave all my accounts as they are, just mostly inactive. If we conclude from the unsubbed training fiasco that CCP have forgotten why they implemented addictive features, it's likely we'll see some other self-destructive policy changes, which might include: No training while not logged in Removal of inactive chars and stuff long before 6 months Increase in effective subscription price Increase of minimum sub term from 30 days on CC to 60 days Reactivation fee or longer minimum reactivation term Longer initial subscription term, say 3 months or 6 months Charge for forum posts, either by subscription or by the post The clueless suits and beancounters could view each of the aforementioned as a revenue producer and be blind to the inevitable effect each would have: a reduction in the active subscriber base. They could give reasons such as: (1) We want users to play the game, not log in for 20 seconds to start a new training step. Why should we let you train for free, so to speak? Besides, this was a bug we've been meaning to fix for five years. (2) Why should we store your char and stuff for free when you're not paying us? If you reactivate after we've removed your char and stuff, for a modest $50 fee we can restore them from a backup. (3) We're not making enough. To keep the game going we have to charge more. (4) We want to discourage revolving-door subscriptions. When you subscribe, it has to be for a certain minimum term. (5) If you let your account lapse we feel it's only fair to charge you a fee to reactivate your account. If you don't want to pay the fee, don't let your account expire. (6) When you first subscribe or reactivate your account, you have to commit to a certain time or we're not interested in having you. After you serve out that probationary term you can renew for shorter terms. (7) To cut down on frivolous forum posts it will now cost you $10/year for the privilege of posting on the Eve Forums. Or maybe 10 cents per post. We haven't made up our minds which will generate the most new revenue. Either way, it is non-refundable if you get banned from the Forums. If they were to do any of these things it would further help ppl break the cycle of game addiction. The unsubbed training fiasco has broken my addiction to Eve and I feel much better for it. I also have more time for things like, y'know, RL work and RL family. This is my sig?
Fawziyyah	Posted - 2008.11.04 11:18:00 - [5345] It seams that 30 days GTC will be back according with the new expantion features... Quote "ETC Secure Trading Evolved A completely new in-game system that allows you to trade 30 day game time tokens for ISK, the in-game currency, with other players via the EVE market. CCP's revolutionary approach to enabling anyone to play EVE for a bit of elbow grease! " Quantum rise features
Caryna Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.04 11:21:00 - [5346] Edited by: Caryna on 04/11/2008 11:22:04 from the press release : The introduction of In-game Subscription Services. You can now convert your 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETCs) into two 30-day items in game. These ô30-Day PilotÆs Licensesö can be traded freely through all regular means (via market or contract or directly between players) and can be activated at any time. This feature will be available on November 11th or shortly thereafter ... NOT returning of the 30 D GTC
Christine Cormorante Gallente Warped Mining	Posted - 2008.11.04 11:27:00 - [5347] Originally by: Shiu Seriously, get over it. The current financial crisis has hit everyone, even CCP. Im surprised this change wasnt announced earlier. They did indeed screw up when they said it was a bug, but tbh I dont blame them for making this decision with the current state the world economy is in. You must have missed CCP touting that the economic crisis was having no effect on thier bottom line, just 2 short weeks prior to this change. Shame really. Perhaps if it were, we'd start seeing incentives worth paying for to stick around.
Shiu	Posted - 2008.11.04 11:41:00 - [5348] Originally by: Christine Cormorante Originally by: Shiu Seriously, get over it. The current financial crisis has hit everyone, even CCP. Im surprised this change wasnt announced earlier. They did indeed screw up when they said it was a bug, but tbh I dont blame them for making this decision with the current state the world economy is in. You must have missed CCP touting that the economic crisis was having no effect on thier bottom line, just 2 short weeks prior to this change. Shame really. Perhaps if it were, we'd start seeing incentives worth paying for to stick around. Im absolutely certain that it affects CCP, if not directly, then indirectly. If not already, this is a precaution to make sure it wont destroy CCP in the near future. I really see no harm in doing what they have done by disabling ghost training, and I do have more than one account active myself, so it affects me as well. If you like playing EVE, thats an incentive to stick around really ;)
Rasik Argimater	Posted - 2008.11.04 11:41:00 - [5349] Originally by: Shiu Seriously, get over it. The current financial crisis has hit everyone, even CCP. Im surprised this change wasnt announced earlier. They did indeed screw up when they said it was a bug, but tbh I dont blame them for making this decision with the current state the world economy is in. So you think that nerfing unsubbed training will increase CCP's revenue? What are you smoking? It should be obvious that it reduces the attraction of reactivating lapsed accounts, which mostly lapse for personal reasons having nothing to do with a desire to train a character while not paying a sub. So you think that in difficult economic times it's smart to reduce the attraction of the game and reduce the numbers of paid subscribers and actively online subscribers? Gee, I think they should hire you as CEO or CFO. You'd fit right in. This is my sig?
Tasty Bit Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2008.11.04 12:50:00 - [5350] Originally by: Richard Aiel anyone else just waitin for the click from CCP on this thread? I predict they'll let it go to page 199, and hit the button.

Zebba Gallente The Phoenix Rising	Posted - 2008.11.04 13:47:00 - [5351] Wow.... I never thought I would want to write anything in this forum. Well, today a friend dropped me a line: I got a problem... and he told me his skill training, his ghost training as it is named has stopped. So we did some research and found this forum post. i understand the various reasons CCP had to this in place and in some way I even agree with their reasons. But there is one thing I do not agree with: the way to pass this information to people that did ghost training. There was a newsletter on the 16th of October, three days after the announcement, but there was no hint about this thing. How many people reactivate their account to find out what changed? You posted it in the section that is only accessable for active accounts, great job. You posted it in the forums... well, how many inactive people take a look at the forums? As stated before: I do unterstand your reasons but I do not like the way you put it in place.
Eniy Oh Gallente United Systems Navy Unitary Enterprises	Posted - 2008.11.04 15:06:00 - [5352] Edited by: Eniy Oh on 04/11/2008 15:07:26 Quote: ETC Secure Trading Evolved A completely new in-game system that allows you to trade 30 day game time tokens for ISK, the in-game currency, with other players via the EVE market. CCP's revolutionary approach to enabling anyone to play EVE for a bit of elbow grease! Coming Nov 11. Isn't it interesting to debate how this affects the loss of Ghost Training? Ofc people would still have to buy 60-day timecards "in the real world", but the GTC-traders can now finally sell their stuff through a decent system in-game, and for them GTC-consumers out there (including me) it'd mean we ONCE AGAIN have the oppurtunity to pay for just 30 days of playtime, which would be cheaper than buying 60 days of playtime. In a way, by an enormous work-around, 30 day GTC's are back, don't you think? Also, a move like this, coupled with the millions CCP is gonna invest in new faster servers (which they really don't have to do but it seems they do listen to the people complaining about lag and yes stuff like this does take years to implement), it all DOES give me the idea we're dealing with an evil company who's only interested in taking money off the players, while NOT giving any value back whatsoever, right....... <-- add tech 2 sarcasm here. CCP screwed up the announcement of Ghost Training. I don't think anyone could deny that. But by no means is the product they are making and expanding just as flawed. Just my .02 iskies. --- The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane
Shiu	Posted - 2008.11.04 15:37:00 - [5353] Originally by: Rasik Argimater Originally by: Shiu Seriously, get over it. The current financial crisis has hit everyone, even CCP. Im surprised this change wasnt announced earlier. They did indeed screw up when they said it was a bug, but tbh I dont blame them for making this decision with the current state the world economy is in. So you think that nerfing unsubbed training will increase CCP's revenue? What are you smoking? It should be obvious that it reduces the attraction of reactivating lapsed accounts, which mostly lapse for personal reasons having nothing to do with a desire to train a character while not paying a sub. So you think that in difficult economic times it's smart to reduce the attraction of the game and reduce the numbers of paid subscribers and actively online subscribers? Gee, I think they should hire you as CEO or CFO. You'd fit right in. Sarcasm doesnt work very well on the internet. If you want to spew bile be my guest, Im only stating the obvious, if people start to abuse it too much, ofcourse CCP will have to change it, dont be so naive thinking it wont spread like wildfire, and then CCP will be in real trouble.
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.11.04 17:20:00 - [5354] Originally by: Tasty Bit Originally by: Richard Aiel anyone else just waitin for the click from CCP on this thread? I predict they'll let it go to page 199, and hit the button. They might even simply post: LAST! ...and then lock the thread for a few days before deleting it.
Wanfeng	Posted - 2008.11.04 23:13:00 - [5355] Some questions. Who is buying all the gtc's that go for isk within the ccp gtc trade system? do they control ccp? :) Those who have enough time to play and gather money for their gtc dealers probably dont care about the new rules of the eve universe. Do they know who they're dealing with? :D What happened to the server graph? Are 60 day skills reasonable? :D Are 60 day gtc's reasonable? What if they manipulate the server graph? :> Wheres my brain??? lost in eve...
Razzlee	Posted - 2008.11.04 23:46:00 - [5356] Edited by: Razzlee on 04/11/2008 23:52:23 Originally by: Shiu Originally by: Rasik Argimater Originally by: Shiu Seriously, get over it. The current financial crisis has hit everyone, even CCP. Im surprised this change wasnt announced earlier. They did indeed screw up when they said it was a bug, but tbh I dont blame them for making this decision with the current state the world economy is in. So you think that nerfing unsubbed training will increase CCP's revenue? What are you smoking? It should be obvious that it reduces the attraction of reactivating lapsed accounts, which mostly lapse for personal reasons having nothing to do with a desire to train a character while not paying a sub. So you think that in difficult economic times it's smart to reduce the attraction of the game and reduce the numbers of paid subscribers and actively online subscribers? Gee, I think they should hire you as CEO or CFO. You'd fit right in. Sarcasm doesnt work very well on the internet. If you want to spew bile be my guest, Im only stating the obvious, if people start to abuse it too much, ofcourse CCP will have to change it, dont be so naive thinking it wont spread like wildfire, and then CCP will be in real trouble. Your posts on this page show you don't grasp the point of the 177 pages worth of posts before it. CCP's motivation to do this was to make more money. They miscalculated. It will cost them thousands of accounts along with hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost revenue. They won't acknowledge that mistake just yet because they still think they are right. There hasn't been enough time yet for the full force of this to impact the number of active subscriptions. Once the full force of this hits,(prepaid accounts finally expire from those who have decided to quit, old accounts never reactivated again, people with 6 or 7 accounts dropping down to 1 or 2, etc), they will see their active subscriptions plummet and they will be in panic mode to reverse this. That won't happen for a few months yet though. For now, I'm sure CCP just thinks these nearly 6,000 posts are just hot air on the part of the players and we don't mean what we are saying.(we do CCP...we really do) The average player who took advantage of ghost training still had the account active for the majority of the year. CCP is now forcing them to choose between being subscribed for 12 months out of year if the wish to continue their training verses 0 months out of the year. There is no middle ground any longer. Many who run multiple accounts, like myself who ran 10, are going to start shutting accounts down and consolidating others. When CCP forces a player to choose between 12 months of activity or 0, most are going to choose 0. For the fanboys like you, don't worry, this affects you too. In about a year when the downward spiral of subscriptions has picked up force, this game isn't going to be nearly as fun for anyone when the number of players logging on and playing begins to show a noticeable drop.
Christine Cormorante Gallente Warped Mining	Posted - 2008.11.05 02:21:00 - [5357] Originally by: Razzlee In about a year when the downward spiral of subscriptions has picked up force, this game isn't going to be nearly as fun for anyone when the number of players logging on and playing begins to show a noticeable drop. It won't take that long. Word of mouth goes quite far in the MMO industry. Not to mention the recent release of Warhammer, the upcoming WoW expansion in a couple of weeks, the immenent arrival of Star Trek Online, Infinity Online, and the ever-so-close launch of JumpGate Evolution. Not only will Eve have all that to contend with, but it will finally have the direct competition (other space based games) it needs to surely humble even the most arrongant of CCP employees. A humbling that is 5 years past due.
kan han Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.05 07:07:00 - [5358] I am content with the upcomming competition in space games MMOs and therefore hopefully there will be an alternative or second path to go as player. More choice is often the better choice. But beside this I run across the new feature to split 60 days gtcs in ingame-ISK-sellable 30 day gtcs. And then my mind made click. This perfectly explains why CCP changed the unsubbed traning feature and was in very hurry to "fix" the "bug". Quote: With this new approach, you can take your run of the mill ETC code and enter it in-game through the escape menu, converting it into two in-game items called "30 Day Pilot's License Extension (PLEX)". You can then put them directly on to the market[...] Source From the day the "new feature" of 30 day ingame gtcs would have been re-introduced with this little quantum rising peu a peu, the change in GTCs period earlier this year would have run senseless. So there was the simple need for CCP to end unsubbed training before this feature has been applied. Doesn't this make sense? I guess that simple it is. It also explains why they were in such a hurry to make the change - beside the nice "dreamed of" benefit in times of the financial crisis CCP personell has already confirmed.
Xavier Holtzman Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.11.05 07:41:00 - [5359] Well, this will probably be my last post here as my subscription expires in a couple days. I hope ya'll keep posting here and keep this thread alive (as long as ccp doesn't blatantly delete it, which is what I've come to expect). I'd hate to see this thread get buried a few weeks from now. Its too bad. This was one of the coolest games I've played. Oh well. I'm looking forward to checking out Jumpgate, and especially Champions when that comes out next year. In the meantime I'll be playing City of Heroes and Warhammer. Maybe I'll cya'll in another land..... -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent."
Rasik Argimater	Posted - 2008.11.05 08:07:00 - [5360] I'm down another 2 accounts... 7 expired, only 2 left alive. Since all nine were active before the unsubbed training nerf, that's $1,260 less for CCP on an annualized basis. And I feel quite refreshed since the nerf helped break my obsessive-compulsive focus on keeping training going. I have more time for RL work and family, too. This is my sig?

Rramar Claime Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.05 09:33:00 - [5361] Originally by: Rasik Argimater I'm down another 2 accounts... 7 expired, only 2 left alive. Since all nine were active before the unsubbed training nerf, that's $1,260 less for CCP on an annualized basis. And I feel quite refreshed since the nerf helped break my obsessive-compulsive focus on keeping training going. I have more time for RL work and family, too. Aint CCP great? They help you make your life better! "I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes."
Orbius Prime Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.05 12:44:00 - [5362] Welcome to the "dark age" [Buy cheap! TimeCards SAVES Money ]
Komiliya Jenius	Posted - 2008.11.05 14:45:00 - [5363] Edited by: Komiliya Jenius on 05/11/2008 14:49:46 Nice countermove CCP, charge $35 for 60 days and have the option to break it up to a 30-day for ISK. I can see it now, 1 year mandatory subscriptions with the option to break it into 30-60-90. Another change I see is the rise of RL money to transfer chars. CCP would say "a 58 Mil SP char takes a bigger clone transport vat bay t transport across the univers than a 5 MIL SP char", so instead of $20 now, it would be $50 for a high SP char. And its nice to see that to start a char with 30-days is now $19.95. CCP should jack the price more because of the falling dollar prices, oh wait, thats what the increase of GTC's are!
Richard Aiel Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.11.05 15:46:00 - [5364] Originally by: Shiu Sarcasm doesnt work very well on the internet. If you want to spew bile be my guest, Im only stating the obvious, if people start to abuse it too much, ofcourse CCP will have to change it, dont be so naive thinking it wont spread like wildfire, and then CCP will be in real trouble. Then by your logic, ISK needs to be removed because ppl buy it ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------
lisacurie	Posted - 2008.11.05 16:05:00 - [5365] Originally by: Xavier Holtzman Well, this will probably be my last post here as my subscription expires in a couple days. I hope ya'll keep posting here and keep this thread alive (as long as ccp doesn't blatantly delete it, which is what I've come to expect). I'd hate to see this thread get buried a few weeks from now. Its too bad. This was one of the coolest games I've played. Oh well. I'm looking forward to checking out Jumpgate, and especially Champions when that comes out next year. In the meantime I'll be playing City of Heroes and Warhammer. Maybe I'll cya'll in another land..... Another whiner leaving - can I have your stuff?
Shoukei Caldari Boobs Ahoy	Posted - 2008.11.05 17:15:00 - [5366] Originally by: lisacurie Another whiner leaving - can I have your stuff? i was here first! however, in the spirit of sharing, i don't mind giving you half of his stuff.
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.05 18:14:00 - [5367] Originally by: Shoukei Originally by: lisacurie Another whiner leaving - can I have your stuff? i was here first! however, in the spirit of sharing, i don't mind giving you half of his stuff. Can I have your stuff is like sooo 2006 or at best 2007, cut it out please, it was pretty funny the first time but now it's just a major annoyance as you won't be getting anyones stuff ever by just asking that question. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Shoukei Caldari Boobs Ahoy	Posted - 2008.11.05 18:29:00 - [5368] Originally by: Tivookz Can I have your stuff is like sooo 2006 or at best 2007, cut it out please, it was pretty funny the first time but now it's just a major annoyance as you won't be getting anyones stuff ever by just asking that question. Tiv im sure you have seen it all already. so, like, can i have your stuff grandpa?
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.11.05 19:19:00 - [5369] Originally by: Shoukei Originally by: Tivookz Can I have your stuff is like sooo 2006 or at best 2007, cut it out please, it was pretty funny the first time but now it's just a major annoyance as you won't be getting anyones stuff ever by just asking that question. Tiv im sure you have seen it all already. so, like, can i have your stuff grandpa? You kids... probably wouldn't really know how to use it and it would just end up getting broken. Now... be off with you.
Shoukei Caldari Boobs Ahoy	Posted - 2008.11.05 21:18:00 - [5370] Originally by: Squirrrel You kids... probably wouldn't really know how to use it and it would just end up getting broken. Now... be off with you. we just wanted their stuff, before they take them to one of those elderly people homes. you cant take it to your grave you know, so no reason for good stuff to go to waste.



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