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Miz DeMille
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:29:00 -
[1]
So, a little over a year ago, when I began playing EVE I'd have my now seven year old son sitting and watching from time to time. He'd enjoy watching me run missions, he even seemed to enjoy it when I'd explain how the manufacturing process worked. Every once in a while he'd make some comment about some obscure portion of the game (like one time he remembered that Caldari have low EM resists, and that Amarr lasers would be a good weapon against them). It was then I thought, 'Heck, why not train up an alt for him and let him play a bit on his own'. So, I did.
He took to EVE pretty quickly - running basic missions, etc. He loves most every aspect of EVE, even the financial side (at which he seems to have an amazing knack for his age).
Anyhow, the other day I mentioned how things are getting tight for people because of the economy, and after knitting his brow and thinking hard about a solution he said, 'How about we put my alt back on your account to save money'. It was a generous offer, as he loves learning new skills, and he mentioned that he'd sacrifice his training for me to get mine in. Maybe we could switch back and forth from time to time. We'd work something out.
So, kind soul that he is, he decided to surprise me this afternoon by saving us some money by using in-game ISK to buy some PLEXs. Problem is, he got scammed - to the tune of about 10 bill.
So, he learned his lesson. And while I'm not mad in the least (it's no different than gold coins in Mario to me), he feels awful. It's a valuable lesson for a kid to learn. A little early maybe, but valuable nonetheless.
So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. You never know who's on the other end.
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Miz DeMille
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:34:00 -
[2]
Oh, and after the scam took place he tried to scam some folks back, as he was so terrified to have lost all of our in-game cash.
I'll tell you, this lesson learning thing seems more difficult than it was when I was a kid!
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Vim
Interstellar eXodus
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:34:00 -
[3]
On the other side there is always a potential victim? =)
Not that I ever scamed, I found it low grade downright bad behaviour. Non the less, some enjoy it.
Sorry to hear this, lets hope you both recover and that your dear son gets better at separating the gold from the silver in the future =)
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Miz DeMille
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:36:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Vim
On the other side there is always a potential victim? =)
Not that I ever scamed, I found it low grade downright bad behaviour. Non the less, some enjoy it.
Sorry to hear this, lets hope you both recover and that your dear son gets better at separating the gold from the silver in the future =)
Thanks for the kind words. We'll recover, no sweat. It's part of the fun.
In fact, this lesson is far more valuable than anything to do with a game.
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Miranda Reactor
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:37:00 -
[5]
8 years old and managed to earn 10B ISK?
nice work
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:38:00 -
[6]
I feel bad sometimes for what I have to do to people in Eve, tis true.
Usually when I've got one over someone else so badly, or smashed them so hard it feels about as honourable as kicking a disabled child out a wheelchair.
I just remember that they'd do it to me if they could, like they have on a number of occasions.
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Kia Patosta
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:38:00 -
[7]
WTF.... can scammers get all that money?? 
I should start scamming... seriously, making money takes ages for me 
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Kyusoath Orillian
Broski Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:38:00 -
[8]
7 year old with 10 billion isk.
scammed.
the system works.
TRU BRO.
Unofficial .BRO. raep team captain.
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Trexan
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:38:00 -
[9]
10 bill? ouch. No ragequits then
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Miz DeMille
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Miranda Reactor
8 years old and managed to earn 10B ISK?
nice work
Oh, no. I earned the ISK ages ago. We have a corp wallet and he 'worked it', so to speak. It's a small corp for he and I and an alt or two.
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Shogun Horowitz
Minmatar
Horowitz Goldstein and Associates
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:45:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Shogun Horowitz on 17/02/2009 22:45:39
I see the point you are making in the OP, and feel for you. I am kind of amazed that a 7 year old kid would have the attention span to really play Eve to be honest. You must have a really smart kid.
With that said... I have an eight year old step son, and I know for a fact that I would not trust him with 10 billion isk. As a matter of fact I don't think it's really healthy to even be exposing a young grade school kid to an adult world like you are doing.
Of course, it's your kid, so it's your choice, but if I were you I'd think twice about it. Would you let your kid go play in a local bar?
In my opinion the scammer just did what he did for the isk. You made the mistake of trusting a 7 year old to manage or handle several billion isk. If it were just "Mario Gold", then yeah it wouldnt be a big deal, but "Mario Gold" doesn't takes months of game time to accumulate.
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Miz DeMille
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:52:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Miz DeMille on 17/02/2009 22:52:25
Originally by: Shogun Horowitz
Edited by: Shogun Horowitz on 17/02/2009 22:45:39
I see the point you are making in the OP, and feel for you. I am kind of amazed that a 7 year old kid would have the attention span to really play Eve to be honest. You must have a really smart kid.
With that said... I have an eight year old step son, and I know for a fact that I would not trust him with 10 billion isk. As a matter of fact I don't think it's really healthy to even be exposing a young grade school kid to an adult world like you are doing.
Of course, it's your kid, so it's your choice, but if I were you I'd think twice about it. Would you let your kid go play in a local bar?
In my opinion the scammer just did what he did for the isk. You made the mistake of trusting a 7 year old to manage or handle several billion isk. If it were just "Mario Gold", then yeah it wouldnt be a big deal, but "Mario Gold" doesn't takes months of game time to accumulate.
You make some excellent points, and I can't say I entirely disagree. However, here's my take -
It's a game. To present it too seriously, or to stigmatize it, is only going to send him a message of, 'This game thing is serious business'. While he's not entirely old enough to differentiate reality from fiction, I don't think making a big deal of games would help him any.
Taking him to a local bar and letting him blow up some spaceship and play with a little pretend money (he didn't have access to the corp wallet. He managed to 'get it') are two entirely different things.
I simply don't want him growing up with a stigma attached to games that they are to be taken seriously. But, you do have a good point,. We'll have to talk about it.
PS. 'Shogun Horowitz' is the funniest freaking name I've seen in this game to date. Kudos.
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian
7 year old with 10 billion isk.
scammed.
the system works.
My thoughts exactly.
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VoiceInTheDesert
Diplomatic Disruption
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:56:00 -
[14]
He used 10bil to buy plexes...?
That's like...11-12 months worth of game time if I'm doing the math right.
I know he's 8, but still, why would be buying so many at once...? You said he followed the financial side fairly well is the only reason I'm asking this.
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echohead
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:58:00 -
[15]
Better isk than $ thats for sure. I must say, Miz seems like a super cool parent. No better way to teach people than let them sink or swim. Congrats on starting the kid on a hardcore style game like Eve instead of something like WOW. I think recent games are terrible for kids. They are to hard to lose at, compared to old school video games anyway.
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Bimjo
Caldari
Domination.
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:01:00 -
[16]
yup sounds like a cool parent
If I may ask,how was he scammed ? I thought Plexes are unscammable if bought on market? or was it lost on contracts ?
====================
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Miz DeMille
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bimjo
yup sounds like a cool parent
If I may ask,how was he scammed ? I thought Plexes are unscammable if bought on market? or was it lost on contracts ?
He's not terribly familiar with contracts. Apparently (if my reasoning is right), someone talked him through how to claim what was likely a freeform contract for a load of PLEXs with no reward. The scammer played Mr. Nice Guy, 'Hey, let me help you understand how to find the contract', etc. And what was essentially the correct amount to pay would up buying nothing.
My son asked to buy a load of PLEXs for two accounts. While my son's side of the story seems to hold water, he doesn't totally understand how the contract system works as we rarely use it.
He knew about scams, and to watch out for them. He'd actually avoided common scams (1 unit of Mega for 1 billion ISK, etc). But apparently this one is a pretty confusing one to deal with.
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iLuvRocks
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Miz DeMille
if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. You never know who's on the other end.
Why write that big mess of words just get to your point.
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T3 Alt
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:10:00 -
[19]
Far too young to be playing Eve.
This is YOUR fault.
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Miz DeMille
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: T3 Alt
Far too young to be playing Eve.
This is YOUR fault.
I played Space Invaders when I was about 7 or so. Why is 7 too young for EVE?
With a profanity filter on, and a dose of common sense (which my son seems to have more of than many EVE players twice his age) I don't see much of a difference other than perception.
It seems people perceive online games as something super serious. My son has no access to MySPace or places like that. But blowing up spaceships? Why get so serious about it?
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SadisticSavior
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:18:00 -
[21]
Edited by: SadisticSavior on 17/02/2009 23:21:50
Quote:
So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming.
If you cant stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Its common knowledge that the majority of the player base are adults. The whole draw of Eve is its brutal PvP environment...and PvP includes the financial environment.
If your kid feels awful its really your fault as a parent for letting him play a game like this in the first place. Its unreasonable for you to expect people to pull punches because they have a 1 in 50,000 chance of scamming a kid who shouldn't be playing the game anyway.
Quote:
It seems people perceive online games as something super serious. My son has no access to MySPace or places like that. But blowing up spaceships? Why get so serious about it?
You answered your own question in your original post. The answer: because other players will exploit his naivete and he will end up feeling awful about something that an adult would know is trivial. Only he doesn't know it is trivial because he is A KID.
Seriously, this seems like common sense to me. You should have seen this coming.
("Fascist" is such an ugly word) |
Miz DeMille
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: SadisticSavior
Edited by: SadisticSavior on 17/02/2009 23:21:50
Quote:
So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming.
If you cant stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Its common knowledge that the majority of the player base are adults. The whole draw of Eve is its brutal PvP environment...and PvP includes the financial environment.
If your kid feels awful its really your fault as a parent for letting him play a game like this in the first place. Its unreasonable for you to expect people to pull punches because they have a 1 in 50,000 chance of scamming a kid who shouldn't be playing the game anyway.
Quote:
It seems people perceive online games as something super serious. My son has no access to MySPace or places like that. But blowing up spaceships? Why get so serious about it?
You answered your own question in your original post. The answer: because other players will exploit his naivete and he will end up feeling awful about something that an adult would know is trivial. Only he doesn't know it is trivial because he is A KID.
Seriously, this seems like common sense to me. You should have seen this coming.
You obviously don't have kids. I used to get upset when my dad would spank my high score in Space Invaders. I'd also be crushed if our soccer team lost a game due to someone's silly mistake. However, my father didn't shelter me from learning to deal with failure, disappointment, or frustration in a controlled environment.
EVE is just a game. People get soooo wound up abaout it. "Hardcore PVP' and all that. Give me a break. There's nothing 'hardcore' about a game. That's like saying a game of Donkey Kong where you only get one life for one quarter is 'hardcore'.
Why are people so determined to feel 'hardcore' when they're sitting in front of a monitor shooting spaceships?
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:28:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Del Narveux on 17/02/2009 23:28:42
Originally by: Miz DeMille
I played Space Invaders when I was about 7 or so. Why is 7 too young for EVE?
The more vocal elements of the community have concluded that internet spaceships are very serious business and the only valid playstyle is "hard, edgy pirate" where "edgy" is defined as "making puerile jokes and constantly flaming everyone who disagrees with you for any reason whatsoever because someone is wrong on the internet. Thus EVE should be restricted to hardcore gamers whose time spent playing is only interrupted by time spent on the forums. 
_________________
[IMAGE REMOVED]
-- aka Cpt Bogus --
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:33:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 17/02/2009 23:33:16
Is it a bad thing to learn for a seven year old that there are bad people on the internet?
And this.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Gekkoh
Caldari
State Protectorate Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:35:00 -
[25]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
I just remember that they'd do it to me if they could, like they have on a number of occasions.
I wouldn't. Lots of others wouldn't either.
Then again, you're not going to scam me either, because I know some will! :-)
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SadisticSavior
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:49:00 -
[26]
Edited by: SadisticSavior on 17/02/2009 23:49:37
Quote:
You obviously don't have kids.
What does that have to do with anything?
Your original post clearly implies we should be expected to pull punches for the sake of a kid who is not emotionally mature enough to handle a game like this.
And that isnt a knock against the kid. I wouldn't EXPECT an 8 year old kid to handle a game like this. If you as a parent choose to let him play a game like this, you as a parent accept the possibility that he will be scammed. And to deal with the fallout.
Quote:
EVE is just a game.
If it is just a game, why does your kid feel so awful?
Oh yeah...because to him it isn't "just a game" because he's a friggen KID.
Quote:
People get soooo wound up abaout it.
You got wound up about it enough to start a thread with a six paragraph post about it. The first thing I thought when reading your post was "who does he think he is". The second thought was "this is a joke or a troll thread".
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that its not the latter. But your implication that the rest of us pull punches for the sake of your kid is seriously unreasonable.
Quote:
Why are people so determined to feel 'hardcore' when they're sitting in front of a monitor shooting spaceships?
If it is so obvious that this is just Donkey Kong, why should we pull punches at all? If it is only Donkey Kong, your kid should handle it just fine, right?
I didnt start a thread proclaiming how adult and hardcore EVE is and saying kiddies shouldnt be allowed to play it. YOU started a thread complaining about other people beating up on your son, and then asked the rest of us to change our behavior.
I've never scammed a single person in this game. But I like the no-rules aspect of EVE. If you (or your son) cant handle it, there are no shortage of other MMOs to choose from.
("Fascist" is such an ugly word) |
T3 Alt
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:54:00 -
[27]
HEH you just compared Eve-Online to Donkey Kong and Space Invaders.
This must be a troll. Otherwise, lrn2parent tbh
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:57:00 -
[28]
I don't recall the OP saying anything about people changing their ways, all he did was point out that not everyone who plays Eve is a neckbeard.
I'm willing to lay odds that everyone on the forum is though.
_________________
[IMAGE REMOVED]
-- aka Cpt Bogus --
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Miz DeMille
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Posted - 2009.02.18 00:04:00 -
[29]
Originally by: SadisticSavior
Edited by: SadisticSavior on 17/02/2009 23:49:37
Quote:
You obviously don't have kids.
What does that have to do with anything?
Your original post clearly implies we should be expected to pull punches for the sake of a kid who is not emotionally mature enough to handle a game like this.
And that isnt a knock against the kid. I wouldn't EXPECT an 8 year old kid to handle a game like this. If you as a parent choose to let him play a game like this, you as a parent accept the possibility that he will be scammed. And to deal with the fallout.
Quote:
EVE is just a game.
If it is just a game, why does your kid feel so awful?
Oh yeah...because to him it isn't "just a game" because he's a friggen KID.
Quote:
People get soooo wound up abaout it.
You got wound up about it enough to start a thread with a six paragraph post about it. The first thing I thought when reading your post was "who does he think he is". The second thought was "this is a joke or a troll thread".
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that its not the latter. But your implication that the rest of us pull punches for the sake of your kid is seriously unreasonable.
Quote:
Why are people so determined to feel 'hardcore' when they're sitting in front of a monitor shooting spaceships?
If it is so obvious that this is just Donkey Kong, why should we pull punches at all? If it is only Donkey Kong, your kid should handle it just fine, right?
I didnt start a thread proclaiming how adult and hardcore EVE is and saying kiddies shouldnt be allowed to play it. YOU started a thread complaining about other people beating up on your son, and then asked the rest of us to change our behavior.
I've never scammed a single person in this game. But I like the no-rules aspect of EVE. If you (or your son) cant handle it, there are no shortage of other MMOs to choose from.
You haven't answered my question. Why is EVE to be taken so much more seriously than other games?
Also, where did I ask for people to pull punches?
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.02.18 00:11:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 18/02/2009 00:11:05
Originally by: Miz DeMille
Also, where did I ask for people to pull punches?
Originally by: Miz DeMille
So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. You never know who's on the other end.
This can easily be interpretted as "pull your punches"
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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