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The Beauty of Scamming

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Miz DeMille	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:29:00 - [1] So, a little over a year ago, when I began playing EVE I'd have my now seven year old son sitting and watching from time to time. He'd enjoy watching me run missions, he even seemed to enjoy it when I'd explain how the manufacturing process worked. Every once in a while he'd make some comment about some obscure portion of the game (like one time he remembered that Caldari have low EM resists, and that Amarr lasers would be a good weapon against them). It was then I thought, 'Heck, why not train up an alt for him and let him play a bit on his own'. So, I did. He took to EVE pretty quickly - running basic missions, etc. He loves most every aspect of EVE, even the financial side (at which he seems to have an amazing knack for his age). Anyhow, the other day I mentioned how things are getting tight for people because of the economy, and after knitting his brow and thinking hard about a solution he said, 'How about we put my alt back on your account to save money'. It was a generous offer, as he loves learning new skills, and he mentioned that he'd sacrifice his training for me to get mine in. Maybe we could switch back and forth from time to time. We'd work something out. So, kind soul that he is, he decided to surprise me this afternoon by saving us some money by using in-game ISK to buy some PLEXs. Problem is, he got scammed - to the tune of about 10 bill. So, he learned his lesson. And while I'm not mad in the least (it's no different than gold coins in Mario to me), he feels awful. It's a valuable lesson for a kid to learn. A little early maybe, but valuable nonetheless. So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. You never know who's on the other end.
Miz DeMille	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:34:00 - [2] Oh, and after the scam took place he tried to scam some folks back, as he was so terrified to have lost all of our in-game cash. I'll tell you, this lesson learning thing seems more difficult than it was when I was a kid!
Vim Interstellar eXodus	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:34:00 - [3] On the other side there is always a potential victim? =) Not that I ever scamed, I found it low grade downright bad behaviour. Non the less, some enjoy it. Sorry to hear this, lets hope you both recover and that your dear son gets better at separating the gold from the silver in the future =)
Miz DeMille	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Vim On the other side there is always a potential victim? =) Not that I ever scamed, I found it low grade downright bad behaviour. Non the less, some enjoy it. Sorry to hear this, lets hope you both recover and that your dear son gets better at separating the gold from the silver in the future =) Thanks for the kind words. We'll recover, no sweat. It's part of the fun. In fact, this lesson is far more valuable than anything to do with a game.
Miranda Reactor	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:37:00 - [5] 8 years old and managed to earn 10B ISK? nice work
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:38:00 - [6] I feel bad sometimes for what I have to do to people in Eve, tis true. Usually when I've got one over someone else so badly, or smashed them so hard it feels about as honourable as kicking a disabled child out a wheelchair. I just remember that they'd do it to me if they could, like they have on a number of occasions.
Kia Patosta	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:38:00 - [7] WTF.... can scammers get all that money?? I should start scamming... seriously, making money takes ages for me
Kyusoath Orillian Broski Enterprises	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:38:00 - [8] 7 year old with 10 billion isk. scammed. the system works. TRU BRO. Unofficial .BRO. raep team captain.
Trexan	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:38:00 - [9] 10 bill? ouch. No ragequits then
Miz DeMille	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:40:00 - [10] Originally by: Miranda Reactor 8 years old and managed to earn 10B ISK? nice work Oh, no. I earned the ISK ages ago. We have a corp wallet and he 'worked it', so to speak. It's a small corp for he and I and an alt or two.
Shogun Horowitz Minmatar Horowitz Goldstein and Associates	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:45:00 - [11] Edited by: Shogun Horowitz on 17/02/2009 22:45:39 I see the point you are making in the OP, and feel for you. I am kind of amazed that a 7 year old kid would have the attention span to really play Eve to be honest. You must have a really smart kid. With that said... I have an eight year old step son, and I know for a fact that I would not trust him with 10 billion isk. As a matter of fact I don't think it's really healthy to even be exposing a young grade school kid to an adult world like you are doing. Of course, it's your kid, so it's your choice, but if I were you I'd think twice about it. Would you let your kid go play in a local bar? In my opinion the scammer just did what he did for the isk. You made the mistake of trusting a 7 year old to manage or handle several billion isk. If it were just "Mario Gold", then yeah it wouldnt be a big deal, but "Mario Gold" doesn't takes months of game time to accumulate.
Miz DeMille	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:52:00 - [12] Edited by: Miz DeMille on 17/02/2009 22:52:25 Originally by: Shogun Horowitz Edited by: Shogun Horowitz on 17/02/2009 22:45:39 I see the point you are making in the OP, and feel for you. I am kind of amazed that a 7 year old kid would have the attention span to really play Eve to be honest. You must have a really smart kid. With that said... I have an eight year old step son, and I know for a fact that I would not trust him with 10 billion isk. As a matter of fact I don't think it's really healthy to even be exposing a young grade school kid to an adult world like you are doing. Of course, it's your kid, so it's your choice, but if I were you I'd think twice about it. Would you let your kid go play in a local bar? In my opinion the scammer just did what he did for the isk. You made the mistake of trusting a 7 year old to manage or handle several billion isk. If it were just "Mario Gold", then yeah it wouldnt be a big deal, but "Mario Gold" doesn't takes months of game time to accumulate. You make some excellent points, and I can't say I entirely disagree. However, here's my take - It's a game. To present it too seriously, or to stigmatize it, is only going to send him a message of, 'This game thing is serious business'. While he's not entirely old enough to differentiate reality from fiction, I don't think making a big deal of games would help him any. Taking him to a local bar and letting him blow up some spaceship and play with a little pretend money (he didn't have access to the corp wallet. He managed to 'get it') are two entirely different things. I simply don't want him growing up with a stigma attached to games that they are to be taken seriously. But, you do have a good point,. We'll have to talk about it. PS. 'Shogun Horowitz' is the funniest freaking name I've seen in this game to date. Kudos.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian 7 year old with 10 billion isk. scammed. the system works. My thoughts exactly.
VoiceInTheDesert Diplomatic Disruption Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:56:00 - [14] He used 10bil to buy plexes...? That's like...11-12 months worth of game time if I'm doing the math right. I know he's 8, but still, why would be buying so many at once...? You said he followed the financial side fairly well is the only reason I'm asking this.
echohead	Posted - 2009.02.17 22:58:00 - [15] Better isk than $ thats for sure. I must say, Miz seems like a super cool parent. No better way to teach people than let them sink or swim. Congrats on starting the kid on a hardcore style game like Eve instead of something like WOW. I think recent games are terrible for kids. They are to hard to lose at, compared to old school video games anyway.
Bimjo Caldari Domination. Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:01:00 - [16] yup sounds like a cool parent If I may ask,how was he scammed ? I thought Plexes are unscammable if bought on market? or was it lost on contracts ? ====================
Miz DeMille	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:06:00 - [17] Originally by: Bimjo yup sounds like a cool parent If I may ask,how was he scammed ? I thought Plexes are unscammable if bought on market? or was it lost on contracts ? He's not terribly familiar with contracts. Apparently (if my reasoning is right), someone talked him through how to claim what was likely a freeform contract for a load of PLEXs with no reward. The scammer played Mr. Nice Guy, 'Hey, let me help you understand how to find the contract', etc. And what was essentially the correct amount to pay would up buying nothing. My son asked to buy a load of PLEXs for two accounts. While my son's side of the story seems to hold water, he doesn't totally understand how the contract system works as we rarely use it. He knew about scams, and to watch out for them. He'd actually avoided common scams (1 unit of Mega for 1 billion ISK, etc). But apparently this one is a pretty confusing one to deal with.
iLuvRocks	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:08:00 - [18] Originally by: Miz DeMille if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. You never know who's on the other end. Why write that big mess of words just get to your point.
T3 Alt Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:10:00 - [19] Far too young to be playing Eve. This is YOUR fault.
Miz DeMille	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:14:00 - [20] Originally by: T3 Alt Far too young to be playing Eve. This is YOUR fault. I played Space Invaders when I was about 7 or so. Why is 7 too young for EVE? With a profanity filter on, and a dose of common sense (which my son seems to have more of than many EVE players twice his age) I don't see much of a difference other than perception. It seems people perceive online games as something super serious. My son has no access to MySPace or places like that. But blowing up spaceships? Why get so serious about it?
SadisticSavior Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:18:00 - [21] Edited by: SadisticSavior on 17/02/2009 23:21:50 Quote: So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. If you cant stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Its common knowledge that the majority of the player base are adults. The whole draw of Eve is its brutal PvP environment...and PvP includes the financial environment. If your kid feels awful its really your fault as a parent for letting him play a game like this in the first place. Its unreasonable for you to expect people to pull punches because they have a 1 in 50,000 chance of scamming a kid who shouldn't be playing the game anyway. Quote: It seems people perceive online games as something super serious. My son has no access to MySPace or places like that. But blowing up spaceships? Why get so serious about it? You answered your own question in your original post. The answer: because other players will exploit his naivete and he will end up feeling awful about something that an adult would know is trivial. Only he doesn't know it is trivial because he is A KID. Seriously, this seems like common sense to me. You should have seen this coming. ("Fascist" is such an ugly word)
Miz DeMille	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:27:00 - [22] Originally by: SadisticSavior Edited by: SadisticSavior on 17/02/2009 23:21:50 Quote: So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. If you cant stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Its common knowledge that the majority of the player base are adults. The whole draw of Eve is its brutal PvP environment...and PvP includes the financial environment. If your kid feels awful its really your fault as a parent for letting him play a game like this in the first place. Its unreasonable for you to expect people to pull punches because they have a 1 in 50,000 chance of scamming a kid who shouldn't be playing the game anyway. Quote: It seems people perceive online games as something super serious. My son has no access to MySPace or places like that. But blowing up spaceships? Why get so serious about it? You answered your own question in your original post. The answer: because other players will exploit his naivete and he will end up feeling awful about something that an adult would know is trivial. Only he doesn't know it is trivial because he is A KID. Seriously, this seems like common sense to me. You should have seen this coming. You obviously don't have kids. I used to get upset when my dad would spank my high score in Space Invaders. I'd also be crushed if our soccer team lost a game due to someone's silly mistake. However, my father didn't shelter me from learning to deal with failure, disappointment, or frustration in a controlled environment. EVE is just a game. People get soooo wound up abaout it. "Hardcore PVP' and all that. Give me a break. There's nothing 'hardcore' about a game. That's like saying a game of Donkey Kong where you only get one life for one quarter is 'hardcore'. Why are people so determined to feel 'hardcore' when they're sitting in front of a monitor shooting spaceships?
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:28:00 - [23] Edited by: Del Narveux on 17/02/2009 23:28:42 Originally by: Miz DeMille I played Space Invaders when I was about 7 or so. Why is 7 too young for EVE? The more vocal elements of the community have concluded that internet spaceships are very serious business and the only valid playstyle is "hard, edgy pirate" where "edgy" is defined as "making puerile jokes and constantly flaming everyone who disagrees with you for any reason whatsoever because someone is wrong on the internet. Thus EVE should be restricted to hardcore gamers whose time spent playing is only interrupted by time spent on the forums. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:33:00 - [24] Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 17/02/2009 23:33:16 Is it a bad thing to learn for a seven year old that there are bad people on the internet? And this. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Gekkoh Caldari State Protectorate Academy	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:35:00 - [25] Originally by: 5pinDizzy I just remember that they'd do it to me if they could, like they have on a number of occasions. I wouldn't. Lots of others wouldn't either. Then again, you're not going to scam me either, because I know some will! :-)
SadisticSavior Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:49:00 - [26] Edited by: SadisticSavior on 17/02/2009 23:49:37 Quote: You obviously don't have kids. What does that have to do with anything? Your original post clearly implies we should be expected to pull punches for the sake of a kid who is not emotionally mature enough to handle a game like this. And that isnt a knock against the kid. I wouldn't EXPECT an 8 year old kid to handle a game like this. If you as a parent choose to let him play a game like this, you as a parent accept the possibility that he will be scammed. And to deal with the fallout. Quote: EVE is just a game. If it is just a game, why does your kid feel so awful? Oh yeah...because to him it isn't "just a game" because he's a friggen KID. Quote: People get soooo wound up abaout it. You got wound up about it enough to start a thread with a six paragraph post about it. The first thing I thought when reading your post was "who does he think he is". The second thought was "this is a joke or a troll thread". I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that its not the latter. But your implication that the rest of us pull punches for the sake of your kid is seriously unreasonable. Quote: Why are people so determined to feel 'hardcore' when they're sitting in front of a monitor shooting spaceships? If it is so obvious that this is just Donkey Kong, why should we pull punches at all? If it is only Donkey Kong, your kid should handle it just fine, right? I didnt start a thread proclaiming how adult and hardcore EVE is and saying kiddies shouldnt be allowed to play it. YOU started a thread complaining about other people beating up on your son, and then asked the rest of us to change our behavior. I've never scammed a single person in this game. But I like the no-rules aspect of EVE. If you (or your son) cant handle it, there are no shortage of other MMOs to choose from. ("Fascist" is such an ugly word)
T3 Alt Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:54:00 - [27] HEH you just compared Eve-Online to Donkey Kong and Space Invaders. This must be a troll. Otherwise, lrn2parent tbh
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:57:00 - [28] I don't recall the OP saying anything about people changing their ways, all he did was point out that not everyone who plays Eve is a neckbeard. I'm willing to lay odds that everyone on the forum is though. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Miz DeMille	Posted - 2009.02.18 00:04:00 - [29] Originally by: SadisticSavior Edited by: SadisticSavior on 17/02/2009 23:49:37 Quote: You obviously don't have kids. What does that have to do with anything? Your original post clearly implies we should be expected to pull punches for the sake of a kid who is not emotionally mature enough to handle a game like this. And that isnt a knock against the kid. I wouldn't EXPECT an 8 year old kid to handle a game like this. If you as a parent choose to let him play a game like this, you as a parent accept the possibility that he will be scammed. And to deal with the fallout. Quote: EVE is just a game. If it is just a game, why does your kid feel so awful? Oh yeah...because to him it isn't "just a game" because he's a friggen KID. Quote: People get soooo wound up abaout it. You got wound up about it enough to start a thread with a six paragraph post about it. The first thing I thought when reading your post was "who does he think he is". The second thought was "this is a joke or a troll thread". I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that its not the latter. But your implication that the rest of us pull punches for the sake of your kid is seriously unreasonable. Quote: Why are people so determined to feel 'hardcore' when they're sitting in front of a monitor shooting spaceships? If it is so obvious that this is just Donkey Kong, why should we pull punches at all? If it is only Donkey Kong, your kid should handle it just fine, right? I didnt start a thread proclaiming how adult and hardcore EVE is and saying kiddies shouldnt be allowed to play it. YOU started a thread complaining about other people beating up on your son, and then asked the rest of us to change our behavior. I've never scammed a single person in this game. But I like the no-rules aspect of EVE. If you (or your son) cant handle it, there are no shortage of other MMOs to choose from. You haven't answered my question. Why is EVE to be taken so much more seriously than other games? Also, where did I ask for people to pull punches?
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.02.18 00:11:00 - [30] Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 18/02/2009 00:11:05 Originally by: Miz DeMille Also, where did I ask for people to pull punches? Originally by: Miz DeMille So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. You never know who's on the other end. This can easily be interpretted as "pull your punches" Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
SadisticSavior Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.18 00:14:00 - [31] Quote: I don't recall the OP saying anything about people changing their ways Then let me refresh your memory: Quote: So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. You never know who's on the other end. The obvious implication IMO is that we should change our ways to avoid making kids like his son feel bad. I don't have a problem with kids playing EVE. I have a problem with their parents whining on the forum when the kid inevitably gets exploited in-game. Let your kid play all you want...but you're not entitled to sympathy when he gets exploited. Quote: Why is EVE to be taken so much more seriously than other games? Please quote me where I said or even implied that EVE needs to be taken any more seriously than other MMOs. You started this thread, not me. I didnt start a thread complaining about Kids in EVE. Quote: Also, where did I ask for people to pull punches? The last two lines of the original post. ("Fascist" is such an ugly word)
Octavious Delance GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.18 00:16:00 - [32] Ahaha so your son is ****ed? I think he needs to go to school and get some learnings instead of playing a game. Maybe if he went to school he wouldn't have been such a dumb** to fall for a scam.
CaptainSensible Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.18 00:20:00 - [33] This is quite an imaginative troll thread. I give it 7/10.
Pesky LaRue Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.18 00:22:00 - [34] funny, i must be old and jaded and cynical but the first thing i thought when i read this thread was "boy, what an inventive scam - i wonder how many people are going to send ISK with a message like 'your poor son, i hope this makes him feel better!'" but i'm wrong, right? \|+ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ +\|
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.02.18 00:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Miz DeMille Originally by: T3 Alt Far too young to be playing Eve. This is YOUR fault. I played Space Invaders when I was about 7 or so. Why is 7 too young for EVE? With a profanity filter on, and a dose of common sense (which my son seems to have more of than many EVE players twice his age) I don't see much of a difference other than perception. It seems people perceive online games as something super serious. My son has no access to MySPace or places like that. But blowing up spaceships? Why get so serious about it? Space Invaders is a single player game. It's full of computer controlled space invaders who descend down the screen. Bloop bloop. MMO games otoh are full of people. People are mostly bastard coated bastards with bastard filling. I've run into some total damaged good headcases playing MMO games y'know. I don't know how seriously he'd take that stuff but some people take this stuff far too seriously. Just saying.
MidnightMartyr Gallente NailorTech Industries Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.02.18 00:27:00 - [36] Even though I don't actually scam in game, I wholeheartedly approve of it. This is quite possibly because I am a cold hearted individual who thrives on the suffering of other in-game. I guess this is how I can be such a nice guy IRL, by being a complete ******* over the interwebs haha. Also, the tears of children are the best!
KaarBaak	Posted - 2009.02.18 00:37:00 - [37] Originally by: Pesky LaRue funny, i must be old and jaded and cynical but the first thing i thought when i read this thread was "boy, what an inventive scam - i wonder how many people are going to send ISK with a message like 'your poor son, i hope this makes him feel better!'" but i'm wrong, right? QFE. My thoughts exactly. This is a scam perpetrated by the OP to get sympathy isk. No real parent could be this monumentally idiotic on so many different levels. KB
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2009.02.18 00:44:00 - [38] Originally by: SadisticSavior The obvious implication IMO is that we should change our ways to avoid making kids like his son feel bad. If I make a post saying "keep in mind not everyone who plays is a member of BobSwarm" it doesn't necessarily mean I'm suggesting that we dismantle the 0.0 alliance racket, only that there's other playstyles that should be recognized as well--a point I bring up mostly because it might shed some light on some of the drama created by recent CCP announcements. Perhaps I misread the OP but it sounds like he just posted it so that others could learn from his mistakes. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.18 01:00:00 - [39] Sorry that the kid got scammed, but I guess he is more carefuel next time. Some leassons is hard, jsut ncourage him to look forwards and not dwell in the past. What is done is done, what he does next is what matters. IN EVE and RL ^^.
Grek Forto THE IRIS United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.18 01:26:00 - [40] Very cute story.
Element 22 Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.18 01:41:00 - [41] This reminds me of a story my pop told me when I was a yougin' sitting on his lap, much like yourself. Now puffs pipe where should I begin... Tiny G1 keyboard with lack of editing ability means I won't be expanind that : ( Anyways, if OP is not a scam then I believe he is saying if you are scamming someone who doesn't feel like an adult or teen (and there is a difference between a dumb adult and a child) you could rethink the scam. They're not saying don't scam, just saying if you have reasonable suspicion that the person on the other end is a kid could you even consider not scamming as badly or finding another target. There a plenty of fish in the sea. But on the other hand they need to learn about scams soon anyways. Harsh but true. And if someone does decide to let the small fry off the hook can you please let us know so I can do a "and at that very moment, 'X's' heart grew 3 times more' : ) Signatures are annoying...kinda like me.
Pesky LaRue Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.18 01:47:00 - [42] Originally by: Element 22 This reminds me of a story my pop told me when I was a yougin' sitting on his lap, much like yourself. Now puffs pipe where should I begin... like my dad told me when i was a kid - "If you build big ships your whole life, people will NOT say, 'there goes Pesky the ship-builder.' And, if you build skysc**rs your whole life, people will NOT say, 'there goes Pesky the architect.' But," he said, "you ** ONE sheep..." \|+ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ +\|
MILK Monk Rytiri Lva R.U.R.	Posted - 2009.02.18 01:48:00 - [43] the beauty of naivity... when I was 8, I was scammed for few weeks in the row by my mate. He kept telling me that he has "live" model of KITT car... doing exactly the same like the car in the series I felt horrible when I realized that he just say BS all the time... good for smile now and nice to remind it everytime when somebody is trying to persuade you... the point is simple - learning such important lesson this way is the best way... it cost you nothing and it has same effect as it would cost you everything... amazing :) __________________________________ I do it myyyy wayyyy... Milky Way.
echohead	Posted - 2009.02.18 01:48:00 - [44] wow, I cannot believe that the OP is catching flack over this. He didn't tell anyone to change, and he stated that the kid learned a lession. I would say that this story does not have a point per se, but is just an anecdote about youngin's learning how harsh the game can be.
Amy Mouse	Posted - 2009.02.18 01:50:00 - [45] Well eve has alot to offer in terms of education, even though it is just a internet ships game. You can learn alot from financial aspects, like items dont move them selves, there are taxes on items that cut on profits, etc. Other aspects are things like objects like ships, its relationship to other things, how you would figure how how to 'tank and defeat' other enemies during missions, tweaking your fit to maximize whatever or at least get by your objective. Quote: So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. You never know who's on the other end. I think thats in response to the 'parent gamer' losing isk/dying in donkey kong talking. Little peeved, not at least at his son but at the scammer. I can totally understand that. It is a good lesson learned I would say, and thats about it lol. but I sure hope he realizes that scammers get to get away with most everything, with exception of some real money trading.
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.02.18 03:03:00 - [46] Originally by: Octavious Delance Ahaha so your son is ****ed? I think he needs to go to school and get some learnings instead of playing a game. Maybe if he went to school he wouldn't have been such a dumb to fall for a scam. He's 7 years old and he made 10 billion isk on his own according to the op. Makes me feel kinda stupid to be honest. Don't know why you have to be such a blunt ***** whe... oh nvm, saw the goonswarm tag.
Alora Venoda GalTech Whiskey Creek Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.18 03:10:00 - [47] Originally by: Miz DeMille Why is EVE to be taken so much more seriously than other games? i will attempt to answer this question... but first we must take this broad, generalized question and ask more specific questions. this question at face value is similar to asking "why do dogs bark at everyone?" there are so many generalizations you cannot really answer it without being more specific. so first, i will rephrase the question: "why are [EVE players] so serious about [EVE], compared to how [other-game players] feel about their [other-games]?" the words in the square brackets are generalizations that need to be further refined before we can attempt to provide actual answers: [EVE] as a game, has many many different activities and goals that appeal to a wide range of different playstyles. furthermore, since EVE is a sandbox game, unlike other MMO's like WoW, it has even more variety of content which is created by the player community itself. [EVE players] come in many different variations. as an MMO, there are as many different types of EVE players as there are people in the world, combined with the many different possible activities and careers in EVE. [other-game] could be anything from a HUGE range of activities like checkers or go-fish, or simple 1 player games like Space Invaders and Mario, or multilayer games like Counter Strike or even Football, or MMO's like WoW, AoC, Warhammer, or even Second Life... just to name a few. [other-game players] is completely undefined until we define [other-game]. and for just about any game, there will still be different levels of enthusiasm and reasons for people to play. now to satisfy your curiosity let's rephrase the question again, being much more specific: "what is it about EVE that causes [certain types of EVE players] to be so much more serious about EVE than any players of [certain other games]?" even this is still pretty generalized... who are these "serious EVE players" and what is the "other game" to compare with? first of all, we cannot really compare any MMO game to a 1-player game, or even traditional multi-player games. the concept of MMO games is whole different topic for another discussion. but overall, just the fact that it's an MMO automatically provides several reasons for a player to take it more seriously than 1-player games. and with EVE there are some unique factors that enable players to take it even more seriously than other MMO's: actual loss of assets - simply put, very few MMO's allow your hard earned efforts to be destroyed in a very short amount of time. this adds an element of "risk" and "loss", especially since "doing it over" can potentially amount to weeks or months of in-game efforts by many players. very large groups of players - some alliances literally have thousands of members, which is much larger than player groups in most other games. and these groups are more than just socializing like myspace, or dungeon running like in WoW, but in EVE the corp/alliance can define 100% of the player experience. but it does not have to, and many corps and alliances are much smaller and much more casual. single shard server - this can indirectly affect the player perspective... because there is only one Jita, for example. the effect is generally that characters and in-game assets and politics have more significance to the players because there is only one community, as opposed to many to pick and choose from, and retreat to, start over in, etc. there are probably other factors unique to EVE that i have missed, but i hope this at least provides some ideas towards the answer you are looking for. ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
echohead	Posted - 2009.02.18 03:27:00 - [48] The fact is this is still a game, so there is no reason to take it seriously at all. It is one thing to swear vengence on an alliance for thwarting your plans, that is what MMO's are about after all. But there really is no reason to take any game seriously in real life. Some lessions are well worth 10b isk
KeLLaX HUNLAR the Almighty Scalar Federation	Posted - 2009.02.18 03:56:00 - [49] Its better he gets scammed on internet with virtual money rather than in real life. That is what makes eve different than other games. It's a more likely reflection of real life. And as in real life, scammers are a part of it too. I see it as a part of the learning chain. Never be too naive, never be too canny. I don't ask for ransom, but when people offer it... I take it :) then I still pop them. It's not like I am a psychopath getting some sort of joy out of that. You can't even trust the people you know nowadays, how can you trust anyone online? Today he trusts a person that says he will let him go for 50m, tomorrow he trusts a drug dealer he met online. 1. Either %100 of the players will have to be honest [which is no possible] and people will have utmost trust on each other... 2. Or people will consider anyone [but not everyone of course] could be up to something evil and be prepared, which is more like real life... So in the end of the day, this is just a game, we fly internet spaceship and play with binary digit money... I say let him scam people :) may be that's something he needs to learn too; to cope with his conscious afterwards...
Th0rG0d Caldari Pilots From Honour	Posted - 2009.02.18 04:01:00 - [50] I have a 6 year old myself, and I let him play almost any other game, but none online. I don't feel he needs to be exposed yet to other (mostly older) gamers until he learns how to interact with complete stranger in RL. He watches me play Eve, and gets excited when I am chatting with my corp mates, ect..... That being said, I feel Eve would have a lot to offer younger kids, as their is much to learn about many different aspects of the game that can be applied to many RL situations. Why are Eve players more serious than other gamers? I think that it is the "time" aspect that this game can demand. The amount of time invested usually correlates to how successful you are in game. A game that goes on whether you logon or not, and that makes it exciting, and serious for some! Good luck with your son, hopefully he will pick up some good gaming habits, and come out of this with a better understanding of contracts, and that games are just that....
Vasili vonHolst Minmatar Gargamel's Lair	Posted - 2009.02.18 04:43:00 - [51] posting b/c op made me smile. Twas a great lesson your boy learned in EVE. No joke. --->Movie: + Trillion damage to CareBear community
eFart	Posted - 2009.02.18 04:53:00 - [52] can some1 explane the op ina nutshell i mean did he get scamed or whats the prob honestly theirs too much blar blar if he got scamed hes a dumass if not why talk that much
Belco Ssefeaba Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.18 05:18:00 - [53] Originally by: T3 Alt Far too young to be playing Eve. This is YOUR fault. The game really isn't that hard to grasp, as much as a lot of people who play this game would like to believe...I think the only thing that makes it difficult for people is the fact that its UI is very different from other MMOs. I'm really not all that surprised that the 7 year old was able to understand the game, given he had an experienced person close at hand to help him. Children really are underestimated for their ability to learn things quickly. Sorry to hear he got scammed so badly. I hope he's still enjoying the game regardless.
Miss Artica Gallente Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.02.18 05:20:00 - [54] Was a nice story. Better for him to learn a lesson like this here where its "controlled" than on the street with his real "lunch money" or something to that effect... Its a cool way for you and your son to bond. Make sure he gets plenty of sunlight though!
Roy34543	Posted - 2009.02.18 05:46:00 - [55] Edited by: Roy34543 on 18/02/2009 05:47:36 Originally by: Miz DeMille Originally by: T3 Alt Far too young to be playing Eve. This is YOUR fault. I played Space Invaders when I was about 7 or so. Why is 7 too young for EVE? With a profanity filter on, and a dose of common sense (which my son seems to have more of than many EVE players twice his age) I don't see much of a difference other than perception. It seems people perceive online games as something super serious. My son has no access to MySPace or places like that. But blowing up spaceships? Why get so serious about it? It has less to do with the game itself then the fact that EVE is the home to one of the most apathetic and downright mean communities on the internet. And some people love it like that.
Caldreean Dawnwalkers	Posted - 2009.02.18 05:49:00 - [56] Originally by: Pesky LaRue funny, i must be old and jaded and cynical but the first thing i thought when i read this thread was "boy, what an inventive scam - i wonder how many people are going to send ISK with a message like 'your poor son, i hope this makes him feel better!'" but i'm wrong, right? You know I had the exact same thought when I saw this. And I bet people have already sent isk.
Marc Bastalle Prometheus Academy	Posted - 2009.02.18 05:51:00 - [57] Edited by: Marc Bastalle on 18/02/2009 05:51:47 I might be overly cynical, but to me the OP smells like "Oh, I'll cook up a sad story and hope people feel sorry for me, then send some ISK on their own accord" a beautiful scam. EDIT: Oh... I see I'm not the only one :p ---- New players click above!
Roah Baztohr Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.18 13:10:00 - [58] Personally, I'm more surprised that a 7 yo kid should feel the need to help his parents financially than that he's allowed to play EVE... I agree that learning that a game is in the end not very important is a good thing, and I don't think EVE as a game is unsuited for children, however, I'd be hesitant about exposing a kid to an online community such as this one unsupervised... And while it's not essentially "very important", it's a hobby of sorts, compare it to stamp-collecting if you will. If you lost a large part of your collection, that's basically "not important", but not thinking it's important at all would defeat the purpose of the hobby... I have 2 questions for you: -What is the point you're trying to make? Scamming is bad? Your son is super-smart? You're parenting skills are fantastic? I don't mean this to be offensive, I'm just wondering. You say "So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. You never know who's on the other end." But you also say that this was a valuable lesson, and you were obviously aware that stuff like this happens in EVE. So isn't what the scammer did a good thing then? -Are you sure your son is being honest? I mean, he's buying plex to help you, right? With your own ISK, that he shouldn't even have access to...? Why didn't he just say "hey dad, you could buy some plex with ISK and save cash!" Does he also take money out of your wallet to buy lottery tickets for you? If at seven he's smart enough to understand EVE and understand the financial crisis, I'd consider he might also be smart enough to scam you in some way ;)
Freyus Bargem	Posted - 2009.02.18 13:19:00 - [59] Man i started playing eve when i was around 13 I have since been scammed by a few people to the tune of probably over 2-3 billion isk. yeah i felt bad about it, but i didn't come onto the forums trying to make the people feel sorry for what they have done. DEAL WITH IT FFS! HE HAS BEEN SCAMMED NOTHING YOU CAN DO WILL CHANGE THAT!
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.18 14:15:00 - [60] Originally by: Washell Olivaw Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 17/02/2009 23:33:16 Is it a bad thing to learn for a seven year old that there are bad people on the internet? And this.
Jonny 101 Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.02.18 14:25:00 - [61] ehm, guys, this is a scam. "ooh boohoo my poor child and we got tough times due to the financial crisis sob sob it's so hard on us and we got robbed! wail wail wail oh deary deary me watches donations from bleeding heart idiots roll in laughing" If you are for real though, have your kid get in touch with me ingame and i'll help you, jonny style.
Rheed Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.18 14:25:00 - [62] I said it before and I'll say it again... Young Children should NOT play MMO's of any kind. I'm sorry, but you are a bad parent by putting your child into this type of situation. These types of life lessons should not be learned at this young of age. It will warp his general perception of how people behave in society. Look at me! I'm on the INTERNET!!!
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.18 14:32:00 - [63] Originally by: Jonny 101 ehm, guys, this is a scam. "ooh boohoo my poor child and we got tough times due to the financial crisis sob sob it's so hard on us and we got robbed! wail wail wail oh deary deary me watches donations from bleeding heart idiots roll in laughing" If you are for real though, have your kid get in touch with me ingame and i'll help you, jonny style. possibly the worste ive seen yet... reminds of people calling in at your house at 8pm/or on the phone, guilt tripping you into donating money to their foundation which they give 3% to.
Jonny 101 Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.02.18 14:37:00 - [64] Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N Originally by: Jonny 101 ehm, guys, this is a scam. "ooh boohoo my poor child and we got tough times due to the financial crisis sob sob it's so hard on us and we got robbed! wail wail wail oh deary deary me watches donations from bleeding heart idiots roll in laughing" If you are for real though, have your kid get in touch with me ingame and i'll help you, jonny style. possibly the worste ive seen yet... reminds of people calling in at your house at 8pm/or on the phone, guilt tripping you into donating money to their foundation which they give 3% to. I love those save the children of palestine calls, gives me a creative challenge whenever they call to come up with a new and creativly unique insulting answer. My favourite theme runs along the lines of "why do you hate the human race, by fighting death you're supporting overpopulation, overpopulation causes starvation, do you want to cause starvation among poor little children? well do you?!" Or the all time favourite "You know, I really don't give a **** if the little buggers starve to death, and let's be honest, neither do you so stuff it where the rice won't grow".
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.18 14:51:00 - [65] Originally by: Jonny 101 Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N Originally by: Jonny 101 ehm, guys, this is a scam. "ooh boohoo my poor child and we got tough times due to the financial crisis sob sob it's so hard on us and we got robbed! wail wail wail oh deary deary me watches donations from bleeding heart idiots roll in laughing" If you are for real though, have your kid get in touch with me ingame and i'll help you, jonny style. possibly the worste ive seen yet... reminds of people calling in at your house at 8pm/or on the phone, guilt tripping you into donating money to their foundation which they give 3% to. I love those save the children of palestine calls, gives me a creative challenge whenever they call to come up with a new and creativly unique insulting answer. My favourite theme runs along the lines of "why do you hate the human race, by fighting death you're supporting overpopulation, overpopulation causes starvation, do you want to cause starvation among poor little children? well do you?!" Or the all time favourite "You know, I really don't give a **** if the little buggers starve to death, and let's be honest, neither do you so stuff it where the rice won't grow". lol - i usually just say hi yes im interested then put the phone down and walk off. but lol i might try that first one...
Jonny 101 Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.02.18 14:59:00 - [66] A better version of your putting down the phone is what I normally do when someone wants to sell me a new phone subscription. "hello is this bla bla" "yes, what is it?" "Do you realise you can save bla bla bla" "oh?" "what subscription do you have now and what do you pay?" "you know, i'm not sure, can you hold while I go find the papers?" "sure thing!" "......." ".............." "......................" "............................." Return 30 minutes later and go "excuse me, are you there?" if you get a reply, you win at life. Suprisingly enough, i've had death threats from phone salesmen at the end of conversations...and i've gotten flower deliveries from the companies they worked for apologizing for said threats assuring me that action has been taken on that rude person who made'em!
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.18 15:44:00 - [67] Originally by: Jonny 101 A better version of your putting down the phone is what I normally do when someone wants to sell me a new phone subscription. "hello is this bla bla" "yes, what is it?" "Do you realise you can save bla bla bla" "oh?" "what subscription do you have now and what do you pay?" "you know, i'm not sure, can you hold while I go find the papers?" "sure thing!" "......." ".............." "......................" "............................." Return 30 minutes later and go "excuse me, are you there?" if you get a reply, you win at life. Suprisingly enough, i've had death threats from phone salesmen at the end of conversations...and i've gotten flower deliveries from the companies they worked for apologizing for said threats assuring me that action has been taken on that rude person who made'em! flowers!? how about some cash
Khamal Kahn No Trademark	Posted - 2009.02.18 16:05:00 - [68] Originally by: Miz DeMille So, a little over a year ago, when I began playing EVE I'd have my now seven year old son sitting and watching from time to time. He'd enjoy watching me run missions, he even seemed to enjoy it when I'd explain how the manufacturing process worked. Every once in a while he'd make some comment about some obscure portion of the game (like one time he remembered that Caldari have low EM resists, and that Amarr lasers would be a good weapon against them). It was then I thought, 'Heck, why not train up an alt for him and let him play a bit on his own'. So, I did. He took to EVE pretty quickly - running basic missions, etc. He loves most every aspect of EVE, even the financial side (at which he seems to have an amazing knack for his age). Anyhow, the other day I mentioned how things are getting tight for people because of the economy, and after knitting his brow and thinking hard about a solution he said, 'How about we put my alt back on your account to save money'. It was a generous offer, as he loves learning new skills, and he mentioned that he'd sacrifice his training for me to get mine in. Maybe we could switch back and forth from time to time. We'd work something out. So, kind soul that he is, he decided to surprise me this afternoon by saving us some money by using in-game ISK to buy some PLEXs. Problem is, he got scammed - to the tune of about 10 bill. So, he learned his lesson. And while I'm not mad in the least (it's no different than gold coins in Mario to me), he feels awful. It's a valuable lesson for a kid to learn. A little early maybe, but valuable nonetheless. So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. You never know who's on the other end. talk about a crock of **. I understand making isk in eve is easy .. but no 7 year old is making 10 bil ... and on top of which ... if he actually HAD 10 bil ... why would you and him ever even consider cancelling an account ... you can buy plex's off the market for about 280 mil or so. unless of course .. i just got trolled ... in which case ... go ** yourself.
Alowishus the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.02.18 17:48:00 - [69] I hate kids. /makes fart noise
Lyris Nairn Caldari Sexy Pirate Club	Posted - 2009.02.18 20:23:00 - [70] The set-up The delivery The responses 10/10 Epic Troll With all my Love, 'Little Cinnamon'
Chomin H'ak Integrated Takeovers	Posted - 2009.02.18 20:35:00 - [71] Originally by: Rheed I said it before and I'll say it again... Young Children should NOT play MMO's of any kind. I'm sorry, but you are a bad parent by putting your child into this type of situation. These types of life lessons should not be learned at this young of age. It will warp his general perception of how people behave in society. Bolded the part that should be deleted. So I have two words for you depending on the truth of the matter: CRAP SCAM or HA HA Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
Ice Fist Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.02.18 21:27:00 - [72] Hmmm, an interesting discussion. The kid sounds like I was when I started my first online game, which was Warcraft II years ago. One difference is that my Dad hates video games. MMO's are much different than RTS, but the mature setting in which the game was played is the same. Anyway, I find it funny that you can go on CAOD or alot of the other forums and find people alot older than this kid being emo and ragequitting over some aspect of the game (i.e. they stole my mom, my alliance is fail cascading, I got ganked in my 5 bil golem in highsec etc.) So any line of thought implying that you need to be a certain age to understand that eve is just a game is ridiculous, because there are people of all ages that never grasp that concept. In a single breath, everything you own can be gone, and some people can't handle that. Would I let my seven year old play eve? No. Do I think the OP is a bad parent? No, its a personal choice. To the OP, your topic is fine until the last line, get rid of it and you have a good story, keep it and youre trying to police eve like a parent which isn't appreciated.
Psiri	Posted - 2009.02.18 21:33:00 - [73] This is not only true for scamming but piracy aswell, we are making people genuinely upset. Sure, it's just a game but this doesn't change this fact. However, in EVE there's an agreement of sorts within the community that you're always responsible for your own losses and that players are free to do their business in whatever way they so see fit. This makes EVE a quite refreshing game, I know guys who are real teddybears IRL but who're sadistic narcissistic scumbags ingame. Players are free to explore their dark side, or so to speak.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.18 22:45:00 - [74] Confirming that I would lose no sleep over scamming a 7 year old. In fact, I'm looking for those with the mentality of 7 year old children as we speak. They seem to be ripe for the picking, if the OP is to be believed. We're Recruiting!
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.18 22:55:00 - [75] Am I the only one who saw that the OP's name starts with "Miz" and wrote the thing off as a scam? Corp killboard
Sturdy Girl	Posted - 2009.02.18 23:28:00 - [76] Originally by: Rheed I said it before and I'll say it again... Young Children should NOT play MMO's of any kind. I'm sorry, but you are a bad parent by putting your child into this type of situation. These types of life lessons should not be learned at this young of age. It will warp his general perception of how people behave in society. Really... don't bother saying it again; you've just stated a bunch of your own unsupported opinions as facts. Who the hell are you to say who is a bad parent? Who made you the authority on Childrens education? How can you possibly make any sort of sociological comment on the future of a childs perceptions when you've never even met the blighter? -SG PS. Everything warps perceptions. That is, in essence, how humans learn - you start wiht one set of perceptions, experiences happen, you end with a different set of perceptions. PPS. Apologising for a moronic opinion before spouting it is the mark of a hypocrite.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.18 23:36:00 - [77] Edited by: Kaeten on 18/02/2009 23:36:59 hhhhh
station jockie	Posted - 2009.02.18 23:53:00 - [78] Why is your 7 year old kid playing eve online and not playing outside with real people he can connect with on a social level ?
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.18 23:58:00 - [79] Originally by: Sturdy Girl Who made you the authority on Childrens education? I did. As his CEO, I have assigned him said title. Got a problem with that? We're Recruiting!
Sturdy Girl	Posted - 2009.02.19 00:09:00 - [80] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Sturdy Girl Who made you the authority on Childrens education? I did. As his CEO, I have assigned him said title. Got a problem with that? Well, you should probably outsource your human resourcing, as you're evidently underqualified yourself.
Leiara Knight Gallente The Oblivion Guard	Posted - 2009.02.19 01:41:00 - [81] BITODWUG, but you can never be absolutely clear.
Nexus Kinnon Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.02.19 02:06:00 - [82] Edited by: Nexus Kinnon on 19/02/2009 02:05:45 Didn't read this thread, someone update me? You will have my eternal e-props etc.
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.19 02:48:00 - [83] Originally by: Jonny 101 A better version of your putting down the phone is what I normally do when someone wants to sell me a new phone subscription. "hello is this bla bla" "yes, what is it?" "Do you realise you can save bla bla bla" "oh?" "what subscription do you have now and what do you pay?" "you know, i'm not sure, can you hold while I go find the papers?" "sure thing!" "......." ".............." "......................" "............................." Return 30 minutes later and go "excuse me, are you there?" if you get a reply, you win at life. Suprisingly enough, i've had death threats from phone salesmen at the end of conversations...and i've gotten flower deliveries from the companies they worked for apologizing for said threats assuring me that action has been taken on that rude person who made'em! In a bit late.. But OMG I love you so much now. I've done the whole leaving them waiting thing but they are never on the end of the phone when I get back. NOT a kublai alt. Honest!
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.19 02:51:00 - [84] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Edited by: Nexus Kinnon on 19/02/2009 02:05:45 Didn't read this thread, someone update me? You will have my eternal e-props etc. Umm.. ok.. I'll try... Blah blah blah.. Lie about young children with billions of isk.. blah blah blah.. lie about taking said isk.. blah blah blah.. umm.. then its pretty much trolling from there on.. NOT a kublai alt. Honest!
Redempt	Posted - 2009.02.19 07:24:00 - [85] Originally by: Rheed I said it before and I'll say it again... Young Children should NOT play MMO's of any kind. I'm sorry, but you are a bad parent by putting your child into this type of situation. These types of life lessons should not be learned at this young of age. It will warp his general perception of how people behave in society. I gotta step in here and ask are you a psychologist? Did you even get a BS/BA in psychology? Every parent has different methods of teaching their children, and your ignorant behavior is a shining example of what you would call a "bad parent"
Moloch Baal Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.19 10:48:00 - [86] Originally by: CaptainSensible This is quite an imaginative troll thread. I give it 7/10. tbh, these days every thread is called a troll. I do think the original definition of trolling is fading somewhat. I type something so I'm a troll... also realy surprised with all the idiotic "you're a bad parent" kinda posts.
Liz Laser	Posted - 2009.02.19 13:49:00 - [87] The message the OP conveyed to me was that I should take up scamming because there are Eve players that far more vulnerable to scamming than I had ever imagined.
Rheed Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.19 14:34:00 - [88] Originally by: Sturdy Girl Really... don't bother saying it again; you've just stated a bunch of your own unsupported opinions as facts. Who the hell are you to say who is a bad parent? Who made you the authority on Childrens education? How can you possibly make any sort of sociological comment on the future of a childs perceptions when you've never even met the blighter? -SG PS. Everything warps perceptions. That is, in essence, how humans learn - you start wiht one set of perceptions, experiences happen, you end with a different set of perceptions. PPS. Apologising for a moronic opinion before spouting it is the mark of a hypocrite. I would have to say that I have consulted many experts in this area and they all agree. You should not reproduce. the part I bolded is exactly the reason why I said what I said. So you think a 7 year old should have this perception warped this early? Do you realize that for a 7 year old, there are no shades of grey? They can't distinguish the difference between "This one person on the internet is a bad person" and "People are bad and will try to get you all the time". You can "take your chances" with your kids for your own selfish reasons and let them play if you want to, but for mine, they will not be subject to this kind of environment until they are much older. Am I the bad parent now because I won't let my pre-teens play this game? Look at me! I'm on the INTERNET!!!
Moloch Baal Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.19 15:16:00 - [89] Edited by: Moloch Baal on 19/02/2009 15:24:33 Originally by: Rheed Am I the bad parent now because I won't let my pre-teens play this game? no, you are the kind of person with a certain look on life, who cant understand that if someone has different ways, it doesnt necesarily mean theyre wrong, this resulting in judgement where no judgement is needed. Opinions are like as-sholes dude, everybody has got one.
Rheed Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.19 15:34:00 - [90] Originally by: Moloch Baal Edited by: Moloch Baal on 19/02/2009 15:24:33 Originally by: Rheed Am I the bad parent now because I won't let my pre-teens play this game? no, you are the kind of person with a certain look on life, who cant understand that if someone has different ways, it doesnt necesarily mean theyre wrong, this resulting in judgement where no judgement is needed. Opinions are like as-sholes dude, everybody has got one. You are absolutly correct; however, my belief system forces me to look at it this way: You may believe that you (not you specifically, just "you" in general as the person(s) reading this) are "good" enough to teach your child how to handle this type of situation, it is by far much better to not let this type of situation happen at all. Let the little person grow up and mature a little more before you teach them about some of the harsh realities of life. Let them believe in Magic, Santa and the Easter Bunny for just a little bit longer... I am sure that you will be glad you did. Look at me! I'm on the INTERNET!!!
Moloch Baal Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.19 16:25:00 - [91] I do agree on the fact that children should be left some space for magic and growing up should indeed be careless. But I dont think MMO's will corrupt the souls of your children. If that be the case you should ban TV watching too. Everyday some city is bombed or someone is murdered and movieplots usualy involve the good guys shooting up the bad guys and vice versa. I cant speak of personal experience, since when I was a kid PC games where in the stage of huge pixelblock people and MMO's were unthinkable. But I do believe that if you as a parent put these sort of games in the right context (as being NOT real) a kid can learn a lot from it. Its good to make reality a lighter thing for them, but sheltering them from it is not a good thing to do imo...
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.19 16:35:00 - [92] Originally by: Moloch Baal I do agree on the fact that children should be left some space for magic and growing up should indeed be careless. But I dont think MMO's will corrupt the souls of your children. It's a pretty, pretty world you live in, and while MMO's won't corrupt the souls of your children, some of the Players that inhabit it might. Would you haphazardly allow your children to just walk amongst hundreds of people, most of them unknown, without monitoring their movements? That's what the OP claims to have done, and that's wrong. Originally by: Moloch Baal If that be the case you should ban TV watching too. Everyday some city is bombed or someone is murdered and movieplots usualy involve the good guys shooting up the bad guys and vice versa. You know what? I don't let my children watch shows that aren't for their age. It's ridiculous for you to say "ban ban ban" when it all comes down to monitoring what your children do. Originally by: Moloch Baal But I do believe that if you as a parent put these sort of games in the right context (as being NOT real) a kid can learn a lot from it. Its good to make reality a lighter thing for them, but sheltering them from it is not a good thing to do imo... Then you, sir, are an idiot. These games are rated for a reason, and a seven year old child (yes, child) should not be playing them. Hell, I'd say the same of most of the people I meet (in game and on the forums) as well. We're Recruiting!
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2009.02.19 16:56:00 - [93] Edited by: Le Skunk on 19/02/2009 16:59:08 MY 7 YEAR OLD CHILD WAS THE ONE WHO SCAMMED YOUR 7 YEAR OLD CHILD. He bought me some pimp officer mods -He Was over the moon!!- ..Untill he got them suicide ganked in the kap pipe by an 8 Year old in a torp raven! SKUNK
Sturdy Girl	Posted - 2009.02.19 16:59:00 - [94] Originally by: Rheed I would have to say that I have consulted many experts in this area and they all agree. You should not reproduce. So you are capable of typing out a flippant sentence or two; it doesn't actually add any merit to your argument. Originally by: Rheed Originally by: Sturdy Girl Everything warps perceptions. That is, in essence, how humans learn - you start wiht one set of perceptions, experiences happen, you end with a different set of perceptions. the part I bolded is exactly the reason why I said what I said. So you think a 7 year old should have this perception warped this early? Evidently you failed to understand. If you put a 7 year old in a classroom, then the teacher will warp their perceptions. If you put a child in a playgroup, then the other children will warp their perceptions. Without perceptions being warped in some way, no learning would ever occur. Originally by: Rheed Do you realize that for a 7 year old, there are no shades of grey? They can't distinguish the difference between "This one person on the internet is a bad person" and "People are bad and will try to get you all the time". Balls: prove it. Maybe YOUR children were/are/will be unable to make such distinctions; perhaps your brand of cottonwool parenting is the cause of this. Originally by: Rheed You can "take your chances" with your kids for your own selfish reasons and let them play if you want to, but for mine, they will not be subject to this kind of environment until they are much older. Actually, for my own selfless reasons I would never even consider bringing a child into this world, as, on balance, it is probably an irresponsible thing to do. Originally by: Rheed Am I the bad parent now because I won't let my pre-teens play this game? No, you are merely a parent. However, other parents who DON'T subscribe to your methodology are also just parents. Get off your preposterously high horse and accept that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and people doing it the other way are just as wrong as you are.
MGSbob	Posted - 2009.02.19 17:31:00 - [95] OP here. trolled
Scarlette Harlette	Posted - 2009.02.19 17:33:00 - [96] OP here. not trolled
Moloch Baal Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.19 17:53:00 - [97] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Moloch Baal I do agree on the fact that children should be left some space for magic and growing up should indeed be careless. But I dont think MMO's will corrupt the souls of your children. It's a pretty, pretty world you live in, and while MMO's won't corrupt the souls of your children, some of the Players that inhabit it might. Would you haphazardly allow your children to just walk amongst hundreds of people, most of them unknown, without monitoring their movements? That's what the OP claims to have done, and that's wrong. You know nothing of the world I live in. You fail to realise the difference between walking around in a spacegame and walking around in real life. Yes i would monitor my kid walking around in real life, what a silly thing to say Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Moloch Baal If that be the case you should ban TV watching too. Everyday some city is bombed or someone is murdered and movieplots usualy involve the good guys shooting up the bad guys and vice versa. You know what? I don't let my children watch shows that aren't for their age. It's ridiculous for you to say "ban ban ban" when it all comes down to monitoring what your children do. You fail at reading my post. I wasnt supporting the "ban everything" way of thinking, more the opposite realy. Of course I would not let my children watch violent movies at that age, but I would not turn off the TV when the news arrives either. I used to watch manga kindof stuff when i was realy young and if I look at those series now, they were pretty darn violent (but still made for kids). Just stating that if you monitor the input they get, you should not ban things. Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Moloch Baal But I do believe that if you as a parent put these sort of games in the right context (as being NOT real) a kid can learn a lot from it. Its good to make reality a lighter thing for them, but sheltering them from it is not a good thing to do imo... Then you, sir, are an idiot. These games are rated for a reason, and a seven year old child (yes, child) should not be playing them. Hell, I'd say the same of most of the people I meet (in game and on the forums) as well. I'm not going to resort to your way of adressing people (I too could call you a total **** for not looking at things the way I do, but thats a bit too easy and obvious and I dont realy feel like discussing things that way tbqh) I honnestly wouldnt know what the impact of an MMO is on young kids. I know I played a **load of violent games in my time and I didnt turn out to be a corrupted scumbag who tries to kill or scam every person I come across. But it IS true that they would cross real people and not pc generated people, who have bad intentions, and it could possibly confuse them. But I do think if you can explain to them that this isnt quite real and nothing to feel bad about, they might learn something that could turn out to be valuable for later real life issues. It might be that im wrong though. one more thing though Tchell, if you blow me up in this game cuz im flying a failfitted boat, you'd be right to laugh at me and I would even agree. I know your way of getting things across is usualy by flaming, and i have gotten quite a few lolz out of that. But when it comes to me in real life, you're absolutely clueless.
Rheed Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.19 18:14:00 - [98] Originally by: Sturdy Girl Originally by: Rheed I would have to say that I have consulted many experts in this area and they all agree. You should not reproduce. So you are capable of typing out a flippant sentence or two; it doesn't actually add any merit to your argument. True, it doesn't, but it needed said. Originally by: Sturdy Girl Everything warps perceptions. That is, in essence, how humans learn - you start wiht one set of perceptions, experiences happen, you end with a different set of perceptions. Originally by: Rheed the part I bolded is exactly the reason why I said what I said. So you think a 7 year old should have this perception warped this early? Originally by: Sturdy Girl Evidently you failed to understand. If you put a 7 year old in a classroom, then the teacher will warp their perceptions. If you put a child in a playgroup, then the other children will warp their perceptions. Without perceptions being warped in some way, no learning would ever occur. You are also correct - to a point. I can, to an extent, control what my children are subjugated to by their teachers. The playground though, might be a little more difficult. You say that having their perceptions warped is how they learn, but won't they be learning the wrong things?? Wouldn't it be my responsibility as a parent to teach them what I believe to be the right things? Originally by: Sturdy Girl Originally by: Rheed Do you realize that for a 7 year old, there are no shades of grey? They can't distinguish the difference between "This one person on the internet is a bad person" and "People are bad and will try to get you all the time". Balls: prove it. Maybe YOUR children were/are/will be unable to make such distinctions; perhaps your brand of cottonwool parenting is the cause of this. Perhaps. We'll see how it plays itself out. You raise your children on MMO's and I'll raise mine internet free until they are teenagers and lets compare notes in about 10-20 years from now. I do not wish to shelter my children. I do; however, wish to control the events that I believe may have a serious impact on my childs early development. Originally by: Sturdy Girl Originally by: Rheed You can "take your chances" with your kids for your own selfish reasons and let them play if you want to, but for mine, they will not be subject to this kind of environment until they are much older. Actually, for my own selfless reasons I would never even consider bringing a child into this world, as, on balance, it is probably an irresponsible thing to do. Well, hell... I thought for a second I was having a discussion with someone who actually knew what they were talking about... oh well, this was a huge waste of my time. Originally by: Sturdy Girl Originally by: Rheed Am I the bad parent now because I won't let my pre-teens play this game? No, you are merely a parent. However, other parents who DON'T subscribe to your methodology are also just parents. Get off your preposterously high horse and accept that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and people doing it the other way are just as wrong as you are. You are absolutly correct with this statement. However, I am not going to get off my high horse and I believe that my opinions are correct and yours are wrong. I apparently, have not presented a strong enough argument to change your mind, and that is okay. On the other hand, I cannot even accept your argument as you claim you have no children and believe it to be irresponsible for you to even bring one into this world (which, infact, is pretty responsible to come to that conclusion - I wish more people would).
Judgement Dave	Posted - 2009.02.20 07:33:00 - [99] And to think I got sent to bed without supper at that age for losing our family cow for 5 poxy beans in return.
Sturdy Girl	Posted - 2009.02.20 09:34:00 - [100] Originally by: Rheed I apparently, have not presented a strong enough argument to change your mind, and that is okay. On the other hand, I cannot even accept your argument as you claim you have no children and believe it to be irresponsible for you to even bring one into this world (which, infact, is pretty responsible to come to that conclusion - I wish more people would). Dude, you are so far up your own arse it is incredible that you haven't yet sought medical attention. My aim isn't to change your mind; it is to point out that your moralistic proclamations about who should/shouldn't have children, and how they should raise them, are pure bull. I don't consider it irresponsible for ME to have children. I think its GENERALLY irresponsible, given the overpopulation of the world, rising crime rate, rising war rate, diminishing resources, etc. I don't really expect you to be capable of understanding; you are evidently not particularly bright, or your approach to debate wouldn't rely on profanity, and you'd have realised what it is that your opposition is saying. As it is, you have lost the argument (by any rational measure of debating skill), regardless of the validity of your views. So, to bring things back to your level, "ya boo shucks to you, you idiot!". -SG =D
Dotard Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:14:00 - [101] poasting in a thread about scamming turned into a parenting debate. Out of Pod thread is over there somewhere.--->
Pa'ak Hagen Neutrino Technologies	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:49:00 - [102] Edited by: Pa''ak Hagen on 20/02/2009 14:49:33 Originally by: Miz DeMille So, a little over a year ago, when I began playing EVE I'd have my now seven year old son sitting and watching from time to time. He'd enjoy watching me run missions, he even seemed to enjoy it when I'd explain how the manufacturing process worked. Every once in a while he'd make some comment about some obscure portion of the game (like one time he remembered that Caldari have low EM resists, and that Amarr lasers would be a good weapon against them). It was then I thought, 'Heck, why not train up an alt for him and let him play a bit on his own'. So, I did. He took to EVE pretty quickly - running basic missions, etc. He loves most every aspect of EVE, even the financial side (at which he seems to have an amazing knack for his age). Anyhow, the other day I mentioned how things are getting tight for people because of the economy, and after knitting his brow and thinking hard about a solution he said, 'How about we put my alt back on your account to save money'. It was a generous offer, as he loves learning new skills, and he mentioned that he'd sacrifice his training for me to get mine in. Maybe we could switch back and forth from time to time. We'd work something out. So, kind soul that he is, he decided to surprise me this afternoon by saving us some money by using in-game ISK to buy some PLEXs. Problem is, he got scammed - to the tune of about 10 bill. So, he learned his lesson. And while I'm not mad in the least (it's no different than gold coins in Mario to me), he feels awful. It's a valuable lesson for a kid to learn. A little early maybe, but valuable nonetheless. So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. You never know who's on the other end. Scamming Characters and GTCs is not endorsed by CCP and nor should scamming PLEX. These have a direct link to RL cash since they can be converted from GTCs into in-game tradable items. Petition it ... it is very strange that they allow it. Some GMs apparently said it was legit, but it is inconsistent with their general policy -> see rules on GTCs and character sales -> PLEX is nothing but a GTC converted for ingame use.
Gambuk	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:43:00 - [103] All the people jumping on the OP saying "its your fault" and all that.. Yeah well... I dont think the OP is complaining really, just trying to tug at your heart strings a bit is all. I think its awesome that the kid plays. I was playing MUDs and other multiplayer games at a very young age, some of my best online friends came from my childhood when I was 10-13 and I still know them now when I'm in my upper 20's! Not to mention this year 2000+ age of not playing dodgeball and tag because someone "loses" and makes them feel bad is making a pansy out of children these days. The real world isn't friendly, people scam/cheat you in real life might as well learn it sooner than later. Kudos to the OP.
Intakstor	Posted - 2009.02.20 17:45:00 - [104] I played all kind of violent games when I was as young as 6-7 years old, with my fathers approval. Wolfenstein, doom, etc, etc, and would definitely allow my own child (if I had one) to do the same. It's just a game, and it's important to understand that from an early age. Sometimes the games (and my father) even helped developed my moral along. It was this game about driving tank's in 2D (not sure of the name). I was wondering if it would be possible to blow up a hospital in the game. My father replied that the building was protected by the Genfer cross, and that I should never, ever try to blow it up, as it was protected by international laws. I was like: "Why? It's a game", and my father replied something like "It doesn't matter if it's a ***** game, that infrastructure or people bearing that cross is not valid targets even in wars!". Then I tried to blow it up at a later stage when my father wasn't watching, and it wouldn't actually. But I kind of felt bad afterwards for trying :P Online games are a different matter though. Because of the actual interaction with playing characters. Language, etc, etc. But again, I don't think anyone can swear as good as a 7 year old. It's just their parents thinking different. My kid getting scammed by a playing character in an online game though, that would simply be awsome! :D HAHAHA ***** you got burned! Welcome to the real **** world, this is where you're going to spend your next 70 or so years, better get used to it Better learn it here before he gets a credit card and an email from Nigeria
Intakstor	Posted - 2009.02.20 17:55:00 - [105] Haha how cool wouldn't this be: Hi there son. You've cleaned your room yet? "Oh sorry dad, I got caught up in this [insert lame childish activity]". "Oh I see. Well then. While you where busy doing your [insert lame childish activity], I stole your account details. I logged in and contracted your [insert faction ship here + all other ships + all the ISK] to myself for exactly 0 ISK. I will continue to hold it ransom until that room is clean. The way I see it, you will either have to clean up your room ASAP, or you can try to win your stuff back against me in PVP from the one [trying to hide my laughter] Velator in your hangar" MUHAHAHAHHA
Demitria Fernir Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.02.20 18:36:00 - [106] Originally by: Intakstor Haha how cool wouldn't this be: Hi there son. You've cleaned your room yet? "Oh sorry dad, I got caught up in this [insert lame childish activity]". "Oh I see. Well then. While you where busy doing your [insert lame childish activity], I stole your account details. I logged in and contracted your [insert faction ship here + all other ships + all the ISK] to myself for exactly 0 ISK. I will continue to hold it ransom until that room is clean. The way I see it, you will either have to clean up your room ASAP, or you can try to win your stuff back against me in PVP from the one [trying to hide my laughter] Velator in your hangar" MUHAHAHAHHA Get your dad's account banned for hacking. Priceless. _______________________________________________ 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101
Frank McTeague Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.21 07:11:00 - [107] Originally by: Kia Patosta WTF.... can scammers get all that money?? I should start scamming... seriously, making money takes ages for me If that's only now occurred to you, you probably won't have an easy time of it
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.02.21 15:16:00 - [108] Originally by: Pa'ak Hagen Edited by: Pa''ak Hagen on 20/02/2009 14:49:33 Originally by: Miz DeMille So, a little over a year ago, when I began playing EVE I'd have my now seven year old son sitting and watching from time to time. He'd enjoy watching me run missions, he even seemed to enjoy it when I'd explain how the manufacturing process worked. Every once in a while he'd make some comment about some obscure portion of the game (like one time he remembered that Caldari have low EM resists, and that Amarr lasers would be a good weapon against them). It was then I thought, 'Heck, why not train up an alt for him and let him play a bit on his own'. So, I did. He took to EVE pretty quickly - running basic missions, etc. He loves most every aspect of EVE, even the financial side (at which he seems to have an amazing knack for his age). Anyhow, the other day I mentioned how things are getting tight for people because of the economy, and after knitting his brow and thinking hard about a solution he said, 'How about we put my alt back on your account to save money'. It was a generous offer, as he loves learning new skills, and he mentioned that he'd sacrifice his training for me to get mine in. Maybe we could switch back and forth from time to time. We'd work something out. So, kind soul that he is, he decided to surprise me this afternoon by saving us some money by using in-game ISK to buy some PLEXs. Problem is, he got scammed - to the tune of about 10 bill. So, he learned his lesson. And while I'm not mad in the least (it's no different than gold coins in Mario to me), he feels awful. It's a valuable lesson for a kid to learn. A little early maybe, but valuable nonetheless. So, in conclusion, if you're a scammer - keep in mind who you might be scamming. You never know who's on the other end. Scamming Characters and GTCs is not endorsed by CCP and nor should scamming PLEX. These have a direct link to RL cash since they can be converted from GTCs into in-game tradable items. Petition it ... it is very strange that they allow it. Some GMs apparently said it was legit, but it is inconsistent with their general policy -> see rules on GTCs and character sales -> PLEX is nothing but a GTC converted for ingame use. CCP have explicitly stated that PLEX scamming is allowed.

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