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EmpressShiva
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Posted - 2009.02.21 09:58:00 -
[1]
Edited by: EmpressShiva on 21/02/2009 10:03:45
Edited by: EmpressShiva on 21/02/2009 10:01:31
Edited by: EmpressShiva on 21/02/2009 09:59:55
Now this has probably been suggested before, or is stupid for any number of reasons:
Why not introduce a simple ship cloning mechanic where any tech 1 ship lost through factional damage (50% enemy-faction non-npc minimum) is replaced at the nearest factional headquarters, including modules. (maybe with meta limit, although being able to build a superior-equipped ship might be interesting considering it'd be an inferior tech1 hull anyway.)
Faction ships should(naturally) not drop modules unless destroyed by NPCs / non-faction PCs.
I accept ship builders will probably groan at the lack of profits as tech1 prices return to zilch. (if they weren't already?)
Purists will also vomit blood that I want to 'dumb-down' EVE. Rest assured, this should only affect factional warfare, something you've probably never taken part in anyway. If you enjoy pewpewing the poor tech1 factionals in low-sec; you'll still get your rage-mails and griefing, in greater numbers. Only in the event of 51% factional damage will their ship be replaced.
What do we end up with?
Accessible factional warfare anyone can bring their tech1 ship without having a moneysink or much downtime (huge boon to newer players, and those 'experimenting' with pvp)
Constant warfare a real war where two universe-spanning factions battle it out for supremacy, you'll have an endless supply of war targets and alot less dozing at the wheel. If you like camping gates all day for a 2 minute pewpew in 0.0; you're welcome to. You'll make more than faction warfare does atleast. Low-sec gets some population.
No reward no risk As it stands, I believe FW provides almost zero returns, infact it poses simply a great risk. Now you can have a constant flow of war-targets, everyone gets what they want: no holds barred factional warfare by the bucketload with no forced 'ratting' or 'mining' included.
Training grounds A place for a corporations to train new recruits / experience fleet warfare before losing everything in 0.0 quitting.
Docking games begone Now that holding onto your balls isn't as important, players might be more willing to engage in proper fights.(granted there will always be docking games with some people)
Downsides
Trivialization of loss Now that NPCs and pirates are the only way to lose your ship, this slightly betrays the spirit of eve. I believe the trade-off is worth it. It will without a doubt bring real vibrance/accessability and purpose to factional warfare that the devs intended. After all, you'd think a great and wonderful superpower of the universe could grant us some military power.
Loss of tech 1 ship component and ship hull sales This is probably more of an issue than people not caring they lose their ships in a zerg of respawns. I have no real recourse here; The loss is probably quite significant. Considering tech3 is around the corner, i'm sure the extra profit building T3 will make this hurt less for those involved.
Less pewpew in low-sec/0.0 This is debatable; low-sec must always be travelled through, and 0.0 is always needed for POS operations/solid profit. This should not be a large issue.
Well I'm sure you'll think of plenty more problems. I've never actually done factional warfare; it seems like a waste of time and money at this point in my pod career.
Commence the rage! Feasible or infeasible?! 
I just want to play internet-spaceships without searching for hours and having to mine to support it.
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Vincent Death
Caldari
K Directorate
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Posted - 2009.02.21 10:54:00 -
[2]
I don't really see the point tbh. The actual cost of replacing a t1 fit frigate is so minimal that no-one is barred from entry. The only reason FW is even slightly expensive for me is because I suck at pod warping.
The proper name for a social system based on political freedom is capitalism. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.02.21 11:00:00 -
[3]
If the PewPew side of the war is the only thing you want, it would work like a charm. But then SiSi has all that and more.
Fact is that there is that little thing called complexes as well, as it is now a good thrashing of the enemy fleet/gang can buy you valuable time to close several complexes while they reship - this would become pointless if the supply became endless.
Another of the beautiful things about the cost involved is that people do not fly what they can't afford to lose (usually anyway), which makes for nicely balanced fights.
A 'free ship on loss' would quickly become massive BS blobs repeatedly jumping into each other ad nauseum. Might as well join the ongoing null-sec war if that's your cup of tea.
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EmpressShiva
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Posted - 2009.02.21 11:11:00 -
[4]
Edited by: EmpressShiva on 21/02/2009 11:16:07
Edited by: EmpressShiva on 21/02/2009 11:12:39
Although a frigate is cheap, outfitting takes a great deal of time and effort. Time I'd rather spend being back on the field popping the enemy left right and center. Not everyone wants to run cheap frigates aswell.
Considering battleships now seem to be a rare breed, I don't see the issue of being swarms. If battleships were truly prevalent in EVE, we'd see alot more of them in general, I see your point though; perhaps a limit could be imposed. Say an imaginary requisition based on your rank per day.. just a random idea.
I'm trying to find solutions to what I believe is a problem for FW. if you have a good idea, let it rip. There would still be class restrictions on gates.
If closing complexes is difficult, adjust timers to suit. -20 secs per enemy ship destroyed in radius etc. I dont think there's any set rules here. You could impose a no-warp rule of 5 minutes if your ship was lost in a certain complex, or give a timer on construction of a new ship, depending on its class. A battleship 10 minutes, a frigate 2 minutes..
While both are solid points, I believe they can be alleviated by slightly changing mechanics of FW to suit.
The main point is to bring great population into the FW so that you spend more time actually doing warfare and less time doing NOTHING.
If you want to draw players in with factional warfare, there is no other better way than this. |
Nur AlHuda
Amarr
Callide Vulpis
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Posted - 2009.02.21 11:29:00 -
[5]
Eve is not counter strike.
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EmpressShiva
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Posted - 2009.02.21 11:31:00 -
[6]
What is factional warfare.
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delor
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Posted - 2009.02.21 13:09:00 -
[7]
I agree that Faction War is largely a failure and needs to be improved. However, I'm not sure this is really the best way to do it. It would probably help with blobbing somewhat, I don't necessarily think it would create interesting battles in a way that would give FW lasting appeal, and one thing I do like about EVE is the fact that because dying has some major consequences it really encourages players to organize and fight intelligently. (although at the moment I do feel that it's fairly poorly balanced and encourages players not to fight at all instead)
I still think the best suggestions I've heard (and, on occasion, made) address the reward side of the equation rather than the risk side. EVE's core PvP problem is that it offers little incentive to split up your forces and almost no reason to stand and fight except in massive POS battles. Make fighting over complexes pay off ISK/LP and make those rewards divide among the people involved in the fight, so that the reward structure encourages forming the smallest possible gang that can accomplish the task and getting out there to capture as many 'plexes as possible. The risk is you put yourself out there as a potential gank-ee, the reward is that you survive you get a payday.
Still, I do think what you propose is better than no changes even if it doesn't quite match my vision of EVE.
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EmpressShiva
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Posted - 2009.02.21 13:46:00 -
[8]
Yeah, this may not be the perfect idea; I just want some more meat to FW. Giving LP rewards would probably help alot also.
Really there needs to be strategical AI that organises battlegroups or some mechanic to deal with the blobbing issue, its there in every iteration of the fw :(
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delor
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Posted - 2009.02.21 14:07:00 -
[9]
Yeah. On the topic of an AI that organizes battles, I always thought it would be neat to have PvP missions where the server would pair up two roughly equal player battle forces and put them into battle. You could give those missions no payoff whatsoever and I'd still sign up for 'em just to get into the sort of small gang warfare that both makes EVE shine and almost never happens.
If you're afraid of your suggestion would provoke outcries, though, just wait for the cries of "OMG no scenarios go play WoW!"  At least yours can be sold as just slightly better insurance for FW participants.
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EmpressShiva
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Posted - 2009.02.21 14:18:00 -
[10]
I had the exact same idea, I was considering proposing it, but was sure it would be struck down; everyone prefers the unrealistic blob scenario instead of militarized warfare simulation.
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Sakura Park
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Posted - 2009.02.21 14:39:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: EmpressShiva
Edited by: EmpressShiva on 21/02/2009 11:52:29
Why not introduce a simple ship cloning mechanic where any tech 1 ship lost through factional damage (50% enemy-faction non-npc minimum) is replaced at the nearest factional headquarters, including modules.
Probably because >1/2 the people out there rely on ship and module sales for their income, especially at the lower end of the manufacturing industry.
You could just inform your local ship-builders that there's a gap in the market at a specific station / region and get the market stocked.
You could make a friend, and get them to make you cheap ships.
Or you could just give free ships to everyone, totally collapse the economy and make Eve a pointless "Counterstrike in space" game.
Terrible idea.
Originally by: EmpressShiva
I just want to play internet-spaceships without searching for hours and having to mine to support it.
You are too lazy to enjoy Eve. Eve is a social game and involves interaction with other people in space and on the markets. Interact.
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EmpressShiva
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Posted - 2009.02.21 14:41:00 -
[12]
Edited by: EmpressShiva on 21/02/2009 14:44:47
I'll keep your thoughts in mind.
Cept if the entire infrastructure of EVE relies on the sales from tech1 FW I think they have bigger problems.
Sorry if I have more interest in warfare than economics and social engineering than yourself. I thought that was the whole point of the FW.
Oh I know, lets just leave FW to rot like many of other ventures in EVE. Maybe by the time we get to tech5 people will realize the only thing the only combat they'll find is in blob warfare, because FW will be well dead by then.
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delor
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Posted - 2009.02.21 14:56:00 -
[13]
Actually, he makes a fair point although he's being a jerk about it. ("you're too lazy to play EVE" is totally uncalled for) It's not a great point because module loss due to faction warfare probably isn't that significant in the first place. There's maybe 400 kills a day and most of them are frigates. Sure, you're cutting the economy out of the system but if the kills you're not bringing the economy into wouldn't have happened anyway it's not a net loss.
Still, I do agree with him that it would be great to keep FW tied into the EVE economy, since that's another integral part of the game. It doesn't mean we need to throw our hands up in the air and give up on FW, just that we should consider other options as well.
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EmpressShiva
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Posted - 2009.02.21 15:20:00 -
[14]
True, I'm not looking at this economically; I'm looking at it from an operational stand point. I want to see a much more active, accessible, less money and time dependant form of player versus player in EVE.
The game won't keel over providing this.
They just need to take a direction with FW instead of leaving it to rot, if not this, then something else. I want to take part in the FW and feel like i'm achieving something; not going bankrupt. At the end of FW what do you come away with at the moment? great satisfaction? glory? isk? LP? kill mails?
Only if you can find something to kill; this is what I want to address. More active FW; More diverse ship classes; More warfare; MORE.
It's not like you can't buy ships within my ruleset; I already suggested a limited fund per day scheme. People that log on for an hour a day can charge in the war and come out not feeling like they just broke their toe on the doorstep. They don't have to go out and haggle for 2 or 3 hours just to secure the ships and modules necessary to participate, and they don't have to mine for 6 hours either.
Accessibility is key to keeping FW active: at this point its pure novelty and will surely die out. I don't want it to, which is why i'm trying to provoke some interest in the subject.. its too bad tech 3 is all anyone cares about at the moment.
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crockett EXE
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Posted - 2009.02.21 22:06:00 -
[15]
Edited by: crockett EXE on 21/02/2009 22:07:16
As a new player I will say I like his idea.
When I go out in my ship, I tend to spend most of my time making ISK vs going out trying to find PVP. Typically while out earning my ISK, I'm not set up for PVP so I miss out on opportunities to get a little action. Seems like when I'm out looking for PVP I spend a lot of time getting bored and not making any ISK.
Murphy's law at it's best it seems, that EVE is designed to cause me to avoid PVP.
At this point in my little clone's life while it's boring as hell shooting at Rats, but at least it's not as boring as sitting at a safe spot in low sec hoping some other noob will come in, looking for a fight While I'm scanning out all the guys flying big E-peen ships and that have played since 2003.
I will say that I want PVP action, and I'm bored to tears with the PVE. However I look at FW and I see no real reward in it, for a noobie clone such as myself other than experance.
I want some of you to look at his idea from the prospective of a new player like myself that doesn't have years of skill training or billions of ISK in the bank.
When I look at FW I see no ISK reward but a risk of losing lots of ISK. I mean lets face it even if I'm flying frig's, I will likely have to set them up with T2 equipment so figure 5 mill per loss.
I know it's not a ton of ISK but taking several of those losses in a short time could easily bankrupt a new player. This makes you have to spend more time care-bearing in the belts than fighting PVP.
If I join the USAF and become some hot shot fighter stick, I don't have to pay for my ride. I don't get a bill if I get the jet shot down or crash it. So why do you have to pay to fight for a fraction?
I understand that EVE has a whole economy built into the system and it's likely FW came along after the economy was put in place, causing it to become part of the current system. But should it really be part of that system at least for a basic frig pilot?
I'm not saying give out free Capitol ships, but what really could be the harm in giving out a free basic fit frigate to those involved in FW? Those that join are doing a job for the Fraction they belong to, but get no monetary reward yet risk lots of ISK.
It seems like everything in EVE is set up with a risk and a reward and I really like that about this game. However from what I can see of FW it's lots of risk with little reward, other than of course the experance.
This is what I'd say looking at this from a noob perspective on ideas that would make me interested in FW.
1) There should be a basic fraction skill-set that any noob can train to be able to fit the free ship with in a day or two. This requires a basic small commitment in training along with the standings that are already in place. However by having a base skill set needed it would give new players a push in the right direction on what to train.
2) Fractions should have a base model fraction Frig that is fitted free with basic fittings. Maybe not as good as the current Fraction ships, but a tad better than a normal Frig. After all we are talking a fraction here and they should have better more up to date equip than what I can buy on the open market.
3) These free fraction ships should work like clones meaning you only get them in one place and never in enemy contested space or regular empire space. There should also be a rebuild timer on them. this way FW isn't flooded with disposable ship blobs. If it's 30 mins before you get the new ship then there is still some risk involved in dying.
4) You can not sell the Fraction ship, just like you can't sell your basic first ship. This way they don't end up all over the marketplace.
This IMO would allow for cheap entry in to PVP with limited skill sets. It wouldn't stop you from fitting the ship better so the equipment market would still do fine.
It would likely put a dent in the T1 frig sales in Fraction space, but I think that would be a good trade off.
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Tybalt Usra
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Posted - 2009.02.21 22:35:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Tybalt Usra on 21/02/2009 22:35:10
OP is stupid. Logistics is an important part of playing eve and also part of the "death penalty".
Losing a ship is suppoed to be a pain the arse. If you want moar fights faster then go and sit in the top belt in amamake, the locals will oblige in short order.
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EmpressShiva
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Posted - 2009.02.22 00:22:00 -
[17]
Sorry, must be my upbringing.
I understand logistics and the boredom of replacing ships.
There's plenty of that all over EVE.
If the FW can't provide fast warfare, its worthless; you might as well take your tech1 gang out to 0.0
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UMEE
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Posted - 2009.02.22 09:05:00 -
[18]
/signed just cuz im tired of oufitting my vexors over and over and over again.
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2009.02.22 13:13:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 22/02/2009 13:18:55
Originally by: EmpressShiva
True, I'm not looking at this economically; I'm looking at it from an operational stand point. I want to see a much more active, accessible, less money and time dependant form of player versus player in EVE.
The game won't keel over providing this.
They just need to take a direction with FW instead of leaving it to rot, if not this, then something else. I want to take part in the FW and feel like i'm achieving something; not going bankrupt. At the end of FW what do you come away with at the moment? great satisfaction? glory? isk? LP? kill mails?
Only if you can find something to kill; this is what I want to address. More active FW; More diverse ship classes; More warfare; MORE.
It's not like you can't buy ships within my ruleset; I already suggested a limited fund per day scheme. People that log on for an hour a day can charge in the war and come out not feeling like they just broke their toe on the doorstep. They don't have to go out and haggle for 2 or 3 hours just to secure the ships and modules necessary to participate, and they don't have to mine for 6 hours either.
Accessibility is key to keeping FW active: at this point its pure novelty and will surely die out. I don't want it to, which is why i'm trying to provoke some interest in the subject.. its too bad tech 3 is all anyone cares about at the moment.
The economy is extremely important in eve.It is the single most important aspect of this game. Everything revolves around the economics in eve from pvp to mining to ratting( ever heard of inflation?)
I dont mess with FW, I prefer "traditional" pvp, but FW is a useful aspect of the game i think. Offering isk/LP rewards would even cause me to show a bigger interest in it though i highly doubt i would join up.
This is the only MMO ive ever played were pvp is so costly. if you want to fix the cost of pvp without killing the economy, then campaign for ccp to fix insurance.
1) Insurance should be based on entire setup cost, mods and rigs included. EDIT:many will say yeah but what about swapping mods and such on a ship. it would now affect your insurance payout. Insurance would be based on killmail not original ship setup when you purchased the insurance. It would only apply to fitted mods and rigs at the time of ship loss.
2)Ships rigs and mods based on mineral cost and mineral prices updated every 6 months for calculating insurance value.
3) meta 1-4 mods should get a slight bonus to payout based on meta but not to exceed more than 80-90% of t2 mod payout.
4)meta 6 plus mods get a bonus of 5% per meta level after 5 to t2 payout( so meta7 would pay out t2 plus 10%)
5) insurance would be reduced to 6 weeks of coverage.
6) insurance cost would be the same but max insurance would be 90% of total
Something like this would produce more pvp and less frigate blob warfare. their would still be a system of checks and balances in the market. their is still some loss at pvp but many pvpers have mods and rigs worth 5-10 x that of the ship. the market would still be balanced for minerals ( since more people would be blowing up more ships cause they can afford to pvp more) and their still would be a need for ratter and mission runner loot. thier would be a slight inflation in prices on meta 1-4 items , a slight increase in mineral volumes thus prices would probably go up a bit but after 6 months the market would even itself out and stabilze and at least people could go out in all t1 unnamed and at least try to pvp instead of making isk for 6 hours to pvp for 10 minutes. People would also be less likely to buy isk which kills the income of all the lil isk farmers.. so many birds one stone
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2009.02.22 13:30:00 -
[20]
To crockett exe:
Trying joining a corp that takes new players and pvps. also if you want to pvp fairly early on and want the isk to do it. run missions until you get to level 4s. 1 level 4 mission pays enough to equip at least 2-3 t1 frigs with t1 mods. and if you save your loot basically all you need to buy is the ships. Not the best thing for pvp but it will let you get your feet wet without spending alot of money or time making isk first. basically you only need to spend enough time to get to level 4 missions( should be ok with about 3-4 months of combat skills training). then you could log on do 1 mission set you up some ships spend the rest of your time FW pvping...rinse and repeat.
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Dark Soldat
Caldari
Heaven's Gate
Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.22 16:41:00 -
[21]
*cough* titan *cough*
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Joe Public
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:40:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nur AlHuda
Eve is not counter strike.
I don't think I can really improve on this response, but I'll try...
Maybe the EVE style of PvP is not what you are looking for, in which case another game might satisfy your needs better. Those of us that do enjoy the EVE style of PvP would prefer that you do not destroy what we enjoy in the persuit of something that can be better provided elsewhere.
Alternatively, maybe you are just not getting sufficient exposure to the good PvP that eve has to offer. Some of the problem may be within you, either in attitude, aptitude or something else. However I expect that most of the problem comes from the people with whom you fly. I find it hard to believe that an active member in a good PvP corp would make such suggestions or experience such issues. I therefore recommend you find a decent PvP corp to join and revisit this idea once you have seen what is already available.
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Stogee
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:20:00 -
[23]
Sorry but I hate the idea.
Any kind of PvP that removes the incredibly strong economic feature of the game would be an epic fail of design.
If you want instanced and vending-machine dispensed combat , then WOW does that already I believe with Battlegrounds.
My suggestion:
Financial Incentive is King. Nobody really cares about points and points dont help you replace lost ships.
Factional warfare primarily takes place in Low-sec, which is generally not as profitable as 0.0. If you even have time to shoot rats or what not.
Reduce the profitability of level 4 missions (an issue commonly complained about) and move that reduction in profitability to the capturing of/controlling of faction space. Each captured complex would generate an isk payment per tick ( 23 hours, after each downtime) to the militia (wallet)that controls it.
Consider it the empire paying a performance based bonus to the militia.
The ISK generated from complex/system control would then be paid as a dividend to militia members based on rank and whether or not they were present in capturing a specific complex.
Therefore players that actively go after capturing complexs and systems are rewarded financially while the complex they took is still under their factions control.
Because they are now a financial resource, the timers required to capture complexes should be increased based on the value of the complex. This would promote conflict, giving the opposition a chance to respond.
This creates a resource for factions to really fight over that is of use to them. It would enable militia members to carry on fighting a means to replace lost ships.
It would be a boon to manufacturers and traders.
No more ISK would be entering the game as it would be siphoned off from level 4s.
my 2 cents
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Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: crockett EXE
1) There should be a basic fraction skill-set that any noob can train to be able to fit the free ship with in a day or two. This requires a basic small commitment in training along with the standings that are already in place. However by having a base skill set needed it would give new players a push in the right direction on what to train.
2) Fractions should have a base model fraction Frig that is fitted free with basic fittings. Maybe not as good as the current Fraction ships, but a tad better than a normal Frig. After all we are talking a fraction here and they should have better more up to date equip than what I can buy on the open market.
3) These free fraction ships should work like clones meaning you only get them in one place and never in enemy contested space or regular empire space. There should also be a rebuild timer on them. this way FW isn't flooded with disposable ship blobs. If it's 30 mins before you get the new ship then there is still some risk involved in dying.
4) You can not sell the Fraction ship, just like you can't sell your basic first ship. This way they don't end up all over the marketplace.
This IMO would allow for cheap entry in to PVP with limited skill sets. It wouldn't stop you from fitting the ship better so the equipment market would still do fine.
It would likely put a dent in the T1 frig sales in Fraction space, but I think that would be a good trade off.
FACTION NOT FRACTION.
Had a decent reply, but realised I cbf. If you can't afford to fit a disposable T1 frigate after a week or two of play, then you're doing something wrong. Level 2 missions give you more then enough ISK for them, as does mining.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:54:00 -
[25]
Victory is impossible without the risk of defeat.
When the game gives you free ships, defeat is impossible.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Tibilo
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Posted - 2009.02.23 14:35:00 -
[26]
Giving out free ships is a bad idea.
However there should be more of a reason or benefit to factional warfare perhaps through capturing complexes.
Otherwise really its not much different from a war between player corps.
Some sort of isk or loyalty point reward would be good.
another problem is people not fighting unless they vastly outclass or outnumber their oponent.
this is probably the main reason fights dont happen.
Also I like the idea of the mass limit on wormholes.
Complexes in factional warfare could have mass limits for either side and once reached no more ships can come in.
Also once a fight starts or over a certain amount of time faction npcs could spawn depending on which side was winning/had the larger gang.
This coupled with a good benefit/reward for capturing plexes should lead to a lot more small gang warfare and good fights for all.
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Lord Zekk
Caldari
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.23 19:08:00 -
[27]
I hate fitting out ship after ship and struggling to get the isk together to buy ships and more importantly the the mods that make my ships deadly. The life expectancy of a ship in FW is pretty low.
That's the way war is. While every loss hurts me I am equally satisfied because I am fully aware of the pain every loss I inflict causes the enemy. No PVP and I repeat NO PVP in eve has a built in Financial Reward. You have to earn Isk in some way or the other to get your ships and mods. Infact FW comes the closest to offering you Isk mixed in with PVP in the form of FW Missions if you are interested. The missions pay much better than their high sec counterparts and with the great big beacon shining in the low sec sky for all to see someone is gonna drop by and attempt to relieve you of your ships.
I've been complaining about the same things you guys have and then I looked my more successful corpmates and I learned that they were deadly and lots of kills and it didn't hurt them so much when they took losses because they had their logistics sorted. A very wise corpmate, I believe it was our CEO wrote to us about a quote from Sun Tzu which went something like Mediocre Commander worry about battle tactics but Great Generals Plan for Logistics and what is most important is having your army fed, equipped with the best weapons, trained, of high moral and well supplied with ensure victory. I've done a very bad job of repeating it, but I hope my message comes through.
My life was a lot easier once I found some Indies who could produce my ships for me, moved them in a Industrial so I had a good stock of them in one place, organize fund raising so that you and a few friends can run some lvl 4 missions or something else to make Isk and place buy orders so that you get stuff cheaper. This made my life a lot easier.
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Sky Grunthor
Minmatar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Balance of Judgment
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Posted - 2009.02.23 19:54:00 -
[28]
I would like to introduce you to this thread.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=946624
you may find some benefit there.
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Search: Sky Grunthor |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.02.23 21:33:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 23/02/2009 21:36:56
If people actually followed the mantra of not flying what they can't afford to lose then this wouldn't be a problem to begin with. Introducing this system leads only to FW being swamped by the best T1 ships with the best T1 fittings, potentially running every newer or poorer player straight out of FW. FW needs more PvP rewards (among other things), not less PvP risk.
And I'm going to take whatever high road there is to be taken here and not even get into the subject of how this not only dumbs down Eve (yeah I saw that bit in the OP's post), but that it's a slippery slope towards broader implementation of mechanics that evaporate risk levels throughout the game.
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delor
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Posted - 2009.02.23 21:48:00 -
[30]
Edited by: delor on 23/02/2009 21:51:15
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 23/02/2009 21:36:56
If people actually followed the mantra of not flying what they can't afford to lose then this wouldn't be a problem to begin with. Introducing this system leads only to FW being swamped by the best T1 ships with the best T1 fittings, potentially running every newer or poorer player straight out of FW. FW needs more PvP rewards (among other things), not less PvP risk.
And I'm going to take whatever high road there is to be taken here and not even get into the subject of how this not only dumbs down Eve (yeah I saw that bit in the OP's post), but that it's a slippery slope towards broader implementation of mechanics that evaporate risk levels throughout the game.
It's not quite that simple. Even if you can reasonably afford to replace the ship that you're flying, few will risk their time and ISK fighting when nothing is at stake unless they're reasonably confident that they will win. That's why Faction Warfare doesn't work very well, not that players are flying bigger ships then they are willing to lose.
As I've already said, I don't think this particular suggestion would substantially improve Faction Warfare and that the people who point to potential economic issues make a good point. However, your reply is defeatist and alarmist. There are legitimate complaints to be made about the implementation of Faction Warfare, and they can be fixed without bringing hellfire and damnation down upon EVE.
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