| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
|
CCP Jasonitas
   |
Posted - 2009.02.25 18:08:00 -
[61]
 Quote:
Is this a seperate blog or got cut from some reason from the blog just posted?
No, it is a separate blog. Again, I know it is real because I just edited it. Unless my vision quests are returning with a vengeance.
|
|
|
CCP Dropbear
|
Posted - 2009.02.25 18:44:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Mkah Mvet
At this point I'll have to agree with the majority: meh. One of the fundamental economic principles is that people respond to incentives. Hype about the "Epic Arc" is in place, and now CCP only has to make it good enough to make more sales. Once Apocrypha is released and they make all those new juicy sales, I don't see how there's any more incentive to bother with making any new epic missions unless people quit playing because of it. The Devs have claimed there will be more to come, but haven't even remotely implied that they've even started working on any future ones. I would expect maybe 1 more arc before the return on investment stops paying out for CCP and they axe any new development on the project. (Dang, my theory feels so logical it's depressing.)
We started working on "future arcs" a long time ago. 
Hopefully it will reassure you to know that the text for the first batch of Epic Arcs was being written as far back as August last year. The designs have been floating around in tentative design documents and people's heads for even longer than that. What is only very recently developed is the finalized toolset and features. There are a whole bunch of arcs already mostly completed, sitting in waiting for us to return to after Apocrypha, when we can adapt them to the final design of the system. We would have loved to include them into the initial release, but because the design of the system continually changed throughout our last five sprints as it was built, the text we already had ended up needed quite a good deal of updating. It was more effective for us to build an arc designed for the new system from the ground up. We will get to those other ones though, just as we will add to epic arcs in other ways. 
|
|
Animka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2009.02.25 19:14:00 -
[63]
There is nothing EPIC about this mission arcs, yet. Yes they have great potential, but only in theory.
In practice it would probably take years to design enough meaningful content for all mission lvls and factions. And ones you have done one arc, you have to wait three months if you want to rerun it? Epic indeed. Thank you CCP.
It seems, eye candy comes first nowdays and content doesn`t matter that much anymore.
Whats left of it... sparkly effects and empty promises? You cant sell them forever...
Or can you?
|
Beckoner Venhatha
|
Posted - 2009.02.25 19:41:00 -
[64]
Seems to me most people think epic is another word for 'fantastic' or awesome...
Epic means something along the lines of 'extended narrative' - a long story, about a hero (usually).. Epic arc missions are just that .. an extended story centred around the player taking it..
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2009.02.25 20:32:00 -
[65]
you can run an epic mission once every 3 months? I hope they have interesting rewards.
That's an awesome idea CCP, now please think about making a team that pumps these out once a month, give us something to play with new just once a month.
I think most players here would rather have a new one once a month, than 5 new ones, 5 months from now. pleeease cpp? can we haves cake when it finished? we don't want to wait for the whole batch to be done. :)
|
|
CCP Jasonitas
|
Posted - 2009.02.25 20:37:00 -
[66]
Quote:
you can run an epic mission once every 3 months? I hope they have interesting rewards.
No. You can play as many Epic Arcs as you can. You can only replay them again three months after completing them.
|
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2009.02.25 22:03:00 -
[67]
Originally by: CCP Jasonitas
Quote:
you can run an epic mission once every 3 months? I hope they have interesting rewards.
No. You can play as many Epic Arcs as you can. You can only replay them again three months after completing them.
but do they still have more than one possible ending like at fanfest or ?
thanks for the clarification.
|
|
CCP Jasonitas
|
Posted - 2009.02.25 22:16:00 -
[68]
Quote:
but do they still have more than one possible ending
Yes, they can have more than one ending, if we wrote it like that. We won't always need a multi-ending story, but it certainly is a fun option.
|
|
Rhys Onasi
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 00:45:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Rhys Onasi on 26/02/2009 00:51:13
What are the current limitations to the epic arc mission system?
Do you still have only (complete) and (not complete) options? Can you have multiple completes leading down multiple paths? Or is that not possible with the current programming.
I've got some great ideas for stories, but most of the ideas I come up with would require a multiple choice completion, though there's some interesting ways of getting around that.
For Example:
One key mission requires you to take a datachip with the details of the password for an accel gate of a pirate base to XXXXXX (allies of the agent who will be providing support).
You have two "options" for completion:
(complete option)
Sir, I have delivered the datachip, they are prepared and will ambush the main force of the pirates before they reach XXXXXXXX (holy relic for amarr, potentially rich asteroid field for Caldari, etc)!
(fail option)
LIE: Sir, I have delivered the datachip, they are prepared and will ambush the main force of the pirates before they reach XXXXXXXX (holy relic for amarr, potentially rich asteroid field for Caldari, etc)!
Then the branch could be about many things. He could discover you lied, he could think his allies betrayed him, etc. Great way to get a story going so that you feel you were a cause of it, rather than just along for the ride.
I remember a great aspect of some cosmos missions was that within the mission, you could come across other agents that wanted to talk to you.
You could come up with great epic mission arcs with a branch that could lead to you gaining standings with a pirate faction by betraying the Empire agent you started with and going with the new pirate agent you found via one of the branches. (Since I assume it would be impossible to "spawn" agents within a mission deadspace, they would have to be like cosmos and static, but require an unique item from the current mission arc, not delivering the item would fail the mission and end your current arc, but you could use the item to complete a mission for the pirate agent instead starting a new arc with him...  )
There's many possiblities.
Some day I'd like to get a devblog on all the technical aspects of writing missions, what's possible, what's not, and what new technical features you have planned.
PS: Jasonitas, are you new? I don't think I've seen that name before, and I don't find you in the left pane of DevFinder (could just be blind  ), and eve-search only finds posts from you as far back as october 2008.
|
|
CCP Dropbear
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 01:26:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Rhys Onasi
What are the current limitations to the epic arc mission system?
Do you still have only (complete) and (not complete) options? Can you have multiple completes leading down multiple paths? Or is that not possible with the current programming.
Firstly, I've written out a mini wall of text describing the branching mechanic and choices here. But, to answer that question, we've sort of approached the mechanic differently. Rather than one mission having "multiple completes" (or in our language, "multiple completion triggers") we offer you a choice from multiple missions with one completion trigger each. This allows us to build a completely different "story" around each completion trigger, things as different as rescuing someone to executing them instead. Instead of lying to your agent just through selecting a hyperlink, you can undock and go actually play that story out.
Multiple completion triggers inside the one mission are still possible, however. We've already had some good discussions about the sorts of missions we can make that use this ability too. There are a few design issues we're still working over, but we've certainly got our minds on new possibilities.
|
|
|
|
Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 01:26:00 -
[71]
How dynamic and permanent will Epic Mission Arcs be? (requiring more frequent content oriented patches)
1) For example will you collect the number (and type) of completions for a mission arc over a set period of time and then have a "world changing" news event based on the results and remove the Epic Arc from the world?
2) Will Epic Arcs be announced in some way, ie a news article saying Corp A is looking for assistance doing this task over a particular period of time (tied to the above "world changing" and eventual removal)?
3) Again tied to the #1, would collected completion results help drive the storyline a particular direction? Allowing characters (and thus players) to interact more directly with NPC entities?
4) Have parallel arcs that lead to entry into a IC PvP conflicts, similar to FW, been explored in anyway? For example the first few missions are clearly PvE, as pilots (and corps) complete those they either end their involvement or join a PvP conflict (similar to FW). Have be limited in time again tied to the completion of the Arc and complied results.
In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net |
Erick Voliffe
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 01:35:00 -
[72]
*Yawn* So ccp's mission content will still be in stone age for awhile yet, so i keep looking forward getting right hand of zaz 3 times in a row or the other 90% that aren't worth the time. Well least these massively worn out missions will look better.
|
|
CCP Dropbear
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 01:51:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Dex Nederland
How dynamic and permanent will Epic Mission Arcs be? (requiring more frequent content oriented patches)
At this early stage, I'd guess that the answer will be that it varies depending on the individual arc. The initial focus will most probably be on static arcs that won't disappear but I wouldn't rule out some more dynamic ones in the future. The problem is developing content takes time, and even small arcs disappearing represents a lot of effort being effectively cut from the game. From a purely content creation standpoint though, not factoring in the myriad other issues to consider when it comes to "interactive" content, it is mechanically possible to do things like this. This possibility hasn't gone unnoticed either, but for now we're going to get our grips on these new toys before we start doing crazy tricks with them. 
Will Epic Arcs be announced in some way?
Yep. 
Would collected completion results help drive the storyline a particular direction?
They could, but that's just one way to drive a storyline. There are other mechanics we could use, too. This stuff is best undertaken when we can fully exploit all of the mechanics available, so like I say earlier, it will first be a matter of just learning the new systems as we flesh out the fundamentals. We'll be better able to see what is possible after that point.
Have parallel arcs that lead to entry into a IC PvP conflicts, similar to FW, been explored in anyway?
Well, to maybe answer the question, epic arcs offer multiple choices (branching). This means you can have the option of flying into a warzone (like say, Black Rise) to complete a series of missions, or you can do something safer but perhaps less profitable or quick. Multiple options means we can offer differing levels of difficulty inside the one narrative. We can offer missions that send you to 0.0 and not create "show stoppers" since we can also give the player another way forward. You can has your caek and eat it too.
|
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 02:34:00 -
[74]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/02/2009 02:35:10
what about timed missions? instead of a 3 month thing like you were talking about per player, make it 1 month for EVERYONE. (take note I'm talking about future arcs, this one can still be 3 months, just don't take that 3 months as something set ins tone for every epic mission)
Then the final battle (or one of the endings) is in XXXXX system on XX/XX/XX at XX:XX.
When you get there there is two dreads shooting at each other, and your mission states to help kill the ammar one.
but another player has a mission to kill the minmatar one.
Then at this point you have like 1000 players all in the same mission zone fighting over 2 dreads.
That would epic.
then while it's not realistic, reset the epic mission arc for everyone, so if you didn't make it to the final mission you get an eve-mail saying
"sorry but the final objection was found and the mission was complete. The ammar won the battleship and took 1 millions illegaly freed slaves back.
sisters of eve out, were sorry you missed it, come back in to see what further work we have for you"
then you go back and it just happens to all be happening again. But hell maybe you take the just right path and end p with a solo ending, and then have to wait untill the next month to run the epic arc again.
This would actully be epic, push players in PvEvP, and generaly, be awesome.
but I bet you'll never do anything as wonderful as that :(
hey any chance of releasing this system to us, the players? Because it would be cool if we could build our own deadspace and missions. I for one would spawn 2 dreadnuats myself and draw players to one side or thew other.
and the reason they would shot each other would be simply, they want thier mission reward.
plus think of warping into to a battle, and seeing players, non of them ganged with you, and having to figure out who to shoot! I mean, someone could just go to be a jerk and kill whoever, other might have figure it out before hand and made small groups.
each player and gangs would have to look at who was shooting what and call targets.
Like "oh man that mega is shooting our dread, take him out"
you'll never do it will you... :(
|
Tink3r Tr0n
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 03:55:00 -
[75]
I'm having a problem with all of this Developer created fixed storyline content you guys want to add to eve.
For me Eve has been about a sandbox with optional tools the player base can play around with.
The way Eve works now, you guys have a pretty good system in place. you toss us a feature and basically say "do with it, what you will". The feature evolves through player usage, we aren't waiting for you guys to give us more.
The reason I left other MMOs was due the frustration I felt when waiting for content. Eve never had that feeling for me.
Now with these "Epic Arcs" you're basically going in the same direction as other MMOs. These Arcs will be in a specific section of space, players will run through this content very fast and be upset since they have to rely on you for future Arcs. This will bring more trouble then its worth to be honest.
Right now missions are fine, we have flexability to choose what agent we want to use, we know the agent pulls from a table and missions are recycled. So the content while repetative never ends. basically meaning We don't have to wait for CCP to make more missions.
These arcs will end, and people will be frustrated with the Dev team for not adding more Arcs in time.
I say drop the Arcs Idea and just toss a few hundred more missions to the existing Agent tables and throw in that new sleeper AI in the missions and were set. We don't need a system that makes us use a specific agent, we don't need a system that heavily dependent on CCP creating storylines for us, like some noob playerbase waiting on a dev team to give us a new dungeon.
Right now the current mission system has two flaws they're too easy and we don't have enough of them on the agent tables.
Make em more challenging, add more missions to the random existing ones and drop this staged, storyline handholding content thats just going to give you guys a headache because its impossible to create content like this on a steady basis.
|
place1
Amarr
Orion Ore International
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 09:11:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Tink3r Tr0n
I'm having a problem with all of this Developer created fixed storyline content you guys want to add to eve.
......
Make em more challenging, add more missions to the random existing ones and drop this staged, storyline handholding content thats just going to give you guys a headache because its impossible to create content like this on a steady basis.
I agree with you a little bit. However I do not think they should just throw away the arc missions. Instead I think they should do like current missions and put them in a pool of arc missions. Then add arc agents through out all of eve. You would then be able to fly to a arc agent of your choice and ask to do a mission. The agent would randomly grab a arc for that race IE all amarr arcs would have there own pool.
You would then do that arc and once completed it would time stamp your character. You could then ask that same agent for a new mission and it would grab a new arc mission from the pool and you would not be offered the same arc you just completed for the next three months.
Basically this works the way current missions work just using arc missions instead of the one mission at a time. This to me would be a far superior way of executing the arc mission implementation.
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 09:52:00 -
[77]
I like the fixed storylines better...
it's like you get to play the stories on the site.
I'm going to love you if you make epic arcs the exception to the no ambulation rule for missions.
|
Kamikazi ONE
HeadBangers
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 13:05:00 -
[78]
Am I the only person that expects this epic newbi arc to have one of the last missions taking them into the same lowsec system that will end up camped all the time and mass newbi deaths.
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 13:52:00 -
[79]
missions still don't work.
:(
|
Jack bubu
Lyonesse.
KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 15:23:00 -
[80]
Now the mission arc stops at the concord agent in space in Tar because he doesnt want to talk
|
|
|
Franz7657
Caldari
Franzminator Corp
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 15:52:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Franz7657 on 26/02/2009 15:52:58
same problem, Tevis Jak don't want to talk to me :(
|
|
CCP Big Dumb Object
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 16:45:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Jack bubu
Now the mission arc stops at the concord agent in space in Tar because he doesnt want to talk
We're on it. Thanks for your patience, guys.
|
|
Steve Thomas
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 18:01:00 -
[83]
I dont mean to sound as harsh as I do when I post what I have posted. . .
the reality is YOU (the developers at CCP) have an ongoing track record of promising expansions with "shiny new featurs", shoving out a "rough draft" of thoes featurs to the live game, then actualy delivering on thoes features at a later date(if then) because once you toss the rough draft version of the feature you guys are off developing some other new features for the next expansion.
now on top of this we see an expansion that it is increasingly obvious will not meet any but the barest bones of the original feature set that you hinted at way back in Fan fair because you decided on an accelerated deadline.
and I can guarantee that no mater what you try to say now your plan then was to change the release cycel to M10-A10-N10 with your new "Scrum" system because you fell into a variation on the "Man month" trap (and yes I know your going to sit there and deny that, the reality is you built yourself up to >300 people so out of the blue you decided WOOPEE! now we can realy turn the crank! all the while blithy ignoreing the 3 realitys of game programing.
(1) that adding more people to a project will not speed up the ability of a given codeing team to come out with code faster no mater when they are put into the team
(2) unlike buisness-industrial programing where the goals are fixable, the creative process means that your goals are constantly moveing-changing-morphing-disapearing-reapearing. (Ie pure creativity will simply ignore any deadline mechanism you try to create
(3) unlike buisness-industrial programing, the more people you put into a "creative programing pool" at the beguining of each Scrum cycle the longer it will take them to work on the problem.(Ive heard this have refered to this as "Lore debate team creep" because it seemed like the more people they had working on a given project the longer everyone spend on sorting out things like a given NPCs motivation)
(that excludes Scrums (and any other methodology for that matter) core weekness, any given programing task will always use up all the time allowed/any given programing task can take more than the time allowed) Ie it risks becomeing a situation where a project that in reality should take a week or less will end up having the entire cycle avalible (simply because the time IS avalible) and worse because you Expect some projects can take more than a cycle . . . it will.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 18:29:00 -
[84]
I'm just happy this mission is in on top of que skill, and the new tutorial (which needs work too but meh, they'll finish her up"
the NPE is going to rock. we needed it 3 years ago.
|
|
CCP Jasonitas
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 18:33:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Franz7657
Edited by: Franz7657 on 26/02/2009 15:52:58
same problem, Tevis Jak don't want to talk to me :(
Tevis Jak is kind of a jerk. His career as a G-man bureaucrat might have something to do with that. Please be patient with him: His wife left him, he's going through counseling, and we fear he may go to the ledge soon. He's not talking to us, either; this is something that tests the deepest parts of any friendship. Hopefully his marriage counselor can help him through this rough patch in his life. He's only a year away from retirement, too.
|
|
Steve Thomas
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 18:35:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 26/02/2009 18:42:55
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 26/02/2009 18:37:48
Originally by: MotherMoon
I'm just happy this mission is in on top of que skill, and the new tutorial (which needs work too but meh, they'll finish her up"
the NPE is going to rock. we needed it 3 years ago.
Dont get me wrong, new mission structure,(so long as they cycle new arcs into the live server on a semi regular basis) the new NPE Tutorial (bugs and all as it is right Now)and skill que are all pure winsauce as far as im concerned. (and no Winsauc e=/= Epic Devs)
where the breakdown happend was T3 & scanning and by extension wormhole space, all of wich suffered badly from the expectation that Scrum+ 300 developers = We will get this done by may 10!!!!!!.
by there own admission the level 4 modules will go out several weeks later.(hmm were getting closer to the typical summer release timeframe here) and they seem to have indicated that at least another arc will be avalible around that time.
bascialy what I am seeing is the reality that they probably could have had a complete "T3+ Mutipath missions" set at or around the time of their summer release.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Ace2001
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 20:11:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Ace2001 on 26/02/2009 20:12:00
Originally by: CCP Jasonitas
Tevis Jak is kind of a jerk. His career as a G-man bureaucrat might have something to do with that. Please be patient with him: His wife left him, he's going through counseling, and we fear he may go to the ledge soon. He's not talking to us, either; this is something that tests the deepest parts of any friendship. Hopefully his marriage counselor can help him through this rough patch in his life. He's only a year away from retirement, too.
Well, this seems to be the most common reply to such statements around here, so I'll say it:
Can I has his stuffz?
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.02.27 09:20:00 -
[88]
Originally by: MotherMoon
please consider throwing out the whole "expansion" thing for a year, and move to a "this month we are working on XXX and soon you will have it!" system.
The only reason I say this is because when ambulation comes out that will be one hell of an expansion, and won't need anything else to feel like one.
I would love a new epic mission once a month/2 months.
I would love higher rez planet texture randomly in june.
I would love more tech 3 subsystems to come out in a month.
When the winter expansion comes out everyone will be happy at your awesome updating and early expansion release this year. And ambulation will knock peoples socks off... and give you 100% more work :P
well they said they could update it in patches, although I don't really see why new missions can't just be added with a server side update. it isn't like we need to download a new map 
|
Reeno Coleman
|
Posted - 2009.02.27 11:44:00 -
[89]
Since these new missions lead you into unknown territory over multiple jumps, i am missing important information in the mission journal.
Correct me if im wrong, but in open space after completing a mission you have no way of finding out where your agent is/was. Sure you may say, "youve just been there, you should know", but i tend to forget ;) and anyway thats what a mission journal should be for.
Another small thing: In the first EPIC mission, my screen is flickering/fading to black inconsistently. If thats a feature, its inconvenient.
|
Ace2001
|
Posted - 2009.02.27 20:22:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Reeno Coleman
Since these new missions lead you into unknown territory over multiple jumps, i am missing important information in the mission journal.
Correct me if im wrong, but in open space after completing a mission you have no way of finding out where your agent is/was. Sure you may say, "youve just been there, you should know", but i tend to forget ;) and anyway thats what a mission journal should be for.
Another small thing: In the first EPIC mission, my screen is flickering/fading to black inconsistently. If thats a feature, its inconvenient.
Couldn't you, for now, just find your agent in the People&Place's section? Under the agents tab? D:
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |