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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2009.02.26 17:48:00 -
[61]
 Quote:
How can anyone prove you've broken the ToS on XBL through the normal use of voice comms?
That's why I used the speeding analogy; if you speed, you're breaking the law but the reality is on a rural road that nobody is watching and you'll never get caught. However, if you were to post videos on YouTube of you doing 150mph on a country road, as has been shown in the past you're going to get done for it eventually.
This is however meandering off on a tangent: They can't, and I suspect you could get away with saying almost anything you like on voice comms, provided your profile and tag are clean. The topic is about someone putting this information into their publicly accessible profile, not about talking with other people about it. I maintain the challenge to any XBL user who believes this is discrimination: Add "Rampantly Heterosexual" to your profile page and see how long it takes for you to get reported and asked to remove it as I'm sure this person was.
---
Originally by: 7shining7one7
a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever
b) those who believe there are are nuts
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Danton Rasche
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.26 17:50:00 -
[62]
Normally, I wouldn't see this as a problem: they just want to keep sexuality out of what's intended to be a family-friendly gaming environment.
However, if it's true that they're banning people's actual names merely because they contain the word gay, then that's too stupid for words. Plenty of last names contain words such as "gay" or "****", and telling people that their familiy's name is an obscenity unfit for human consumption actually is offensive: Seriously offensive, and not this "I don't want my children to know anything about the world" bull that they seem so eager to pander to.
As for this:
Quote:
if they are GAY/LESBIAN they are a failure to the human race. they cannot reproduce thus being utterly and completely useless.
Thank you for a clear demonstration of why stupidity is what we should really be worrying about where it comes to dangers to the human race. You think the only contribution a person can make to humanity is to make more people? There are homosexuals who have conquered the world, changed the world, inspired the world: saved lives, altered the way we think, created art, built up industry and done everything else that human beings do, including have children.
But I'm sure that soldier who got injured and can't have children with his wife now because he was out there in harm's way defending you is gratified to know you think he's completely useless. I'm sure that surgeon who'll one day operate on your prostate without messing it up because she put her career first will be glad to know what you think of her.
Willful ignorance is bad, even when it isn't used as flimsy pre-text to gay bash.
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Tractus Vesica
Caldari
Order of the Black Dragons
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Posted - 2009.02.26 18:04:00 -
[63]
I hate the microsoft xbox team, those *******s make you pay for things that should be free. We steam users can make custom maps, skins, and models for free, whereas microsoft releases promotional bull**** packs, and gets paid for them! its outragous. 
But back on topic, who gives a **** about the lesbian/gay thing.
I know I dont. 
>>Insert generic signature here<< |
Tipsy
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
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Posted - 2009.02.26 18:06:00 -
[64]
It is inconsistent to permit disclosure of one's age and gender but not sexual orientation. Disclosing sexual orientation is no more sexual than disclosing your gender - ie. what sexual organs you were born with and whether you conform more to male or female stereotypes and social 'norms' (whatever those are). I would suggest that one's sexual orientation has a pretty large effect on how we perceive their gender, or sexual identity.
I understand that Microsoft wants to run XBox Live in as trouble-free a way as possible, but it is inexcusable that this should marginalise people who don't fit into the majority. Microsoft should not be in the business of helping those who would harass gay and lesbian players away from their service. They owe this woman an apology, and the reinstatement of her account.
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Tipsy
XFI Chief of Staff |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.02.26 18:22:00 -
[65]
Originally by: mingeta dong
From who? If you're in the game chat in Gears of War 2 for example I expect to be able to say whatever I like, it's got an 18 cert rating in the UK.
That's because we're all big manly men who play gears, big men who shovel bucket loads of coal into our mouths for breakfast, without milk.  derp derp derp derp. Man I can't even abide using my headset on Live anymore, I just play with some mates, good old Horde mode.
Anyways, Either way, these situations turn sour, very quickly, Microsoft need to establish it as an all or nothing policy, Either nobody talks about their sexuality, or everyone can. Granted, the person involved was probably attention seeking, but that's beside the point.
Despite how 'advanced' we claim to be, we're still pretty limited and short sighted on many issues. Sexuality and race are definitely two of them.
Tbh though, the people who reguarily speak over live, specifically the acne-ridden 13 year old kid stereotype, are generally considered bottom of the barrel by any gaming community.
Originally by: mingeta dong
I really do think the biggest issue is being missed here.......is she hawt????
She reguarily visits xbox live and openly promotes she is a lesbian. Now, considering what sort of people generally visit online games the most.
What do you think?
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mingeta dong
BEER Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.26 20:10:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: mingeta dong
I really do think the biggest issue is being missed here.......is she hawt????
She reguarily visits xbox live and openly promotes she is a lesbian. Now, considering what sort of people generally visit online games the most.
What do you think?
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.26 21:15:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/02/2009 21:17:12
I do not agree with the decision. For all we know she put it in her bio to just decrease the number of pitiful boys that would contact her.
Although I do not agree with MS, I need to point out that if one reads the US Constitution, our freedom of speech only has to do with government restriction. The Constitution, in wording, does not protect free speech in private settings, which is totally under the regulation of the individual entity.
For example, if you worked as a developer for a high end contractor do you think the government would interven in your dismisal from the organization if you went out and told some reporter all the secrets of said contractor?
Defendant - "Your honor the defendant divulged integral company secrets"
Ex-employee - "But your honor, they can not fire me for telling the buisness secrets, I have the freedom of speech"
Judge -
To mercyoman - The following two links help back up my belief that sexuality works on a continum that I suspect follows a traditional bell curve. To which direction that curve favors time only will tell.
Mammel Review
Oregon Health and Science University
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
=v= |
David Kang
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Posted - 2009.02.26 21:59:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Sokratesz
I like girls.
There I said it, persecute me at your own peril!
This.. I like girls..
Will I be banned now? 
If someone spouted Heterosexuality nothing would of happened. mention one mention of gay/lesbian and you get banned WTF? I am not gay myself but gezzzzz I am on there side with this.
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Jago Kain
Amarr
Pan Galactic Traders
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:10:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Oregon Health and Science University
/me sings "I love ewe love, ewe love me too love, I love ewe love me love..."
Linking to Gary in a sexuality based thread.
___________________________________________________
The game will never be over, because we're keeping the meme alive. |
Roah Baztohr
Minmatar
The Hive Mind
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Posted - 2009.02.27 13:03:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Roah Baztohr on 27/02/2009 13:07:25
Edited by: Roah Baztohr on 27/02/2009 13:06:39
From the XBOX live code of conduct (which you agree to in the Terms of Use):"
-Don't create a gamertag or motto that other users may be offended by, this includes comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate any of the following: profane words/phrases, topics or content of a sexual nature, hate speech (including but not limited to racial, ethnic, or religious slurs), illegal drugs/controlled substances, or illegal activities.
-Don't create a gamertag or motto that references controversial religious topics, notorious people, organizations, or sensitive current or historical events that may also be considered inappropriate.
That's all there is to it, really. Adding her sexual orientation in her bio (I assume Motto=Bio) is against the ToU. The same would be true for adding your religious conviction, or adding that you're a ganja-smoker...
Funny thing about all this is that no-one would be offended if they'd ban someone who says they're a right-wing extremist (apart from some other right-wing extremists, probably), while this would be, in essence, the same offence.
Of course, I'm not saying being lesbian is comparable to being a right-wing extremist, on the contrary. However, MS (and most if not all other companies in a similar position) will not "judge" people on their convictions, they just tell them to keep them out of their controlled space. Which is common sense, really.
Now if MS would start to actually pass judgement on those convictions, that's when people should be in an uproar... Imagine MS telling you it's ok to be catholic, but not jewish... or it's fine to say you're an enviromentalist, but not a socialist... Right now, they just tell you to keep it out of the xbox live enviroment, to which they have every right. And using the service means you've agreed to this. Of course, this does mean that someone could get the same penalty for announcing they're heterosexual. I assume they would. Find some proof that this isn't the case, and maybe this would actually be an issue.
Oh and regarding real-life names with "gay" in it and such... well, sucks to be you I guess... Your parents could've called you Adolf ******, that doesn't mean you can use that name in online games... This even applies to me, as my (dutch) surname is offensive in english, I'd probably not be allowed to use it... can't really say I give a damn tbh...
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.02.27 13:48:00 -
[71]
I am not sure why anyone would want to advertise that they were gay on Xbox Live, given that it has no bearing on the playing of games. And even if it was put there to stop guys trying to chat her up, well that wouldn't dissuade them. It would probably excite them even more.
Microsoft's position is ambiguous. If they ban someone for advertising they are gay, as according to the terms of service that a few people have already pointed out, then they have to do it for all categories, whether they be gay, straight or bi. It's an all-or-nothing situation, and Microsoft, being a large corporation, take the safest option. If Microsoft want to counter this woman's claims, all they have to do is produce an example of where they have banned someone for advertising their hetero preference.
Now the other players were acting like idiots, and were discriminating against her. If she is banned for having lesbian on her profile, then all those that chased after her for the explicit purpose of harrassing a gay person have to be banned as well (as it is stated that 'hateful' behaviour is not tolerated in the ToS). If they are offended, they have to raise a complaint, not hound the person. That is not acceptable behaviour.
As for the freedom of speech part, you are on their network, you have to play by their rules. As long as they don't start telling me what to think, it's not going to ruin my day. They have to do these things to prevent offence and, frankly, people will take an offence to practically anything.
No-one likes to walk on eggshells, but you have to remember that you are playing social games with strangers, and you have to bear in mind their feelings. That said, it is practically impossible to avoid offending someone somewhere down the line, so Microsoft shouldn't be quite so quick to pounce on these things, and apply a little common sense (especially seeing as it seems to be in short supply in the community itself).
When playing online, it's best to forge a circle of friends that you know won't take offence. Then you can air your views without getting banned. If you play with strangers, be aware that you will eventually offend someone, and you may even have to apologise.
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.02.27 14:09:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Roah Baztohr
Oh and regarding real-life names with "gay" in it and such... well, sucks to be you I guess... Your parents could've called you Adolf ******, that doesn't mean you can use that name in online games... This even applies to me, as my (dutch) surname is offensive in english, I'd probably not be allowed to use it... can't really say I give a damn tbh...
The name things is interesting, and shows it is nigh on impossible to filter out these words. I personally have encountered the surnames ****er, Bastard (pronounced B'Stard, like in The New Statesman) and Lillicrap. There's even a professional football player with the surname ****tu.
And surnames of notorious dictator's? How can you censor them? You'd be knackered in a history forum if you were prevented from ever mentioning their name.
Personally, I prefer the approach of not automatically filtering out offensive words and have moderators remove statements that are either offensive or cause offence. Then we would be able to use words like crapulence without falling afoul of the bleedin' filter.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.27 14:29:00 -
[73]
So not allowing sex in anyway onto X-Box live profiles is a bad thing?
Quit acting homophobic, sex is sex.
Stop, hammer time. |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.27 14:32:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Roah Baztohr
Oh and regarding real-life names with "gay" in it and such... well, sucks to be you I guess... Your parents could've called you Adolf ******, that doesn't mean you can use that name in online games... This even applies to me, as my (dutch) surname is offensive in english, I'd probably not be allowed to use it... can't really say I give a damn tbh...
This guy should be banned from all Christian dominated areas 
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
=v= |
WhiteSavage
Gallente
Altruism.
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Posted - 2009.02.27 20:45:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
So not allowing sex in anyway onto X-Box live profiles is a bad thing?
Quit acting homophobic, sex is sex.
Has nothing to do with video gaming. Just because you look at **** doesn't mean everyone else does. Sex is sex but its Microsoft choice ethicaly AND legally to disallow it in their service. Cry homophobia all you want but I'm sick of online perverts either way.
Likewise, people dont seem to understand that this is not a news article. This is people whining that they were treated unfairly. One side of the story, I used to work in retail and believe me people will lie through their arse just to get other people to be sorry for them.
______________________________
The Tulip is AMAZED |
Jago Kain
Amarr
Pan Galactic Traders
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Posted - 2009.02.27 21:01:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
This guy should be banned from all Christian dominated areas
Wow! Satan really has started skating to work
.... I'm in trouble now; there's all sorts of things I swore I'd never do until this happened.
___________________________________________________
The game will never be over, because we're keeping the meme alive. |
FOl2TY8
Revolutionary United Front
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.27 21:20:00 -
[77]
Originally by: KingsGambit
Hmmm....a controversial action by Microsoft then. Not the first and won't be the last. It seems a bit heavy handed to me, banning people over their gamertag which isn't particularly offensive or vulgar. I can understand banning the use of gamertags where they do nothing but incite tension or hatred because of a political, racial, etc implication.
All the same, sexual orientation does not IMO need to be in a gamertag. Though inoffensive, it simply doesn't belong there really, and Microsoft are entitled to run the Live! service how they choose. It's the company's call to make, and they made it based on decisions by policy makers. It's not "discrimination" by any stretch though I can understand why it can be seen as controversial.
And at a risk of sounding very much like something Akita T might say...whether or not someone is homesexual, if someone is offended, or feels persecuted because of the ban...get over yourselves FFS. The same goes for anyone who is offended by the homosexual references in the gamertags in the first place. To the former, just pick a new username and get on with it, stop being cry babies. You aren't being persecuted, you're just getting told to pick new usernames because the homosexual references in your old one are now considered inappropriate. Nothing more sinister than that. It is a bit of an overreaction by MS, but it's their call to make.
This is really all that needs to be said....
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This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.28 05:56:00 -
[78]
Originally by: WhiteSavage
Originally by: Megan Maynard
So not allowing sex in anyway onto X-Box live profiles is a bad thing?
Quit acting homophobic, sex is sex.
Has nothing to do with video gaming. Just because you look at **** doesn't mean everyone else does. Sex is sex but its Microsoft choice ethicaly AND legally to disallow it in their service. Cry homophobia all you want but I'm sick of online perverts either way.
Likewise, people dont seem to understand that this is not a news article. This is people whining that they were treated unfairly. One side of the story, I used to work in retail and believe me people will lie through their arse just to get other people to be sorry for them.
No, you misunderstood. It's homophobic to say that microsoft CAN'T ban profiles like this. Who cares what they are? Sex is sex, and they don't want it on x-box live.....
Stop, hammer time. |
F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards
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Posted - 2009.02.28 09:35:00 -
[79]
This poses an interesting option for the intellectually inclined: anyone who has a Live account should add "well-known thespian" and/or "rampant heterosexual" to their info and see how long until the complaints come in.
But this controversy does raise some interesting questions, which are unfortunately sullied by Microsoft's banning of people with g-a-y in their real name. What I'm getting at is that if you are of the particular sexual affiliation mentioned, would you really be offended if the ban notice said something like, "You have been banned from this service because a number of ignorant rednecks took offense at something in your profile"? Most of the type of people we can't name whom I know would probably laugh at the irony of such a statement.
Maybe I'm unusual, but I don't care what anyone's sexual or religious affiliation is as long as they're not an ******* (so long as it's legal). So I guess I'm in the not-relevant camp, but with a strong dislike of MS for making an issue in the first place.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
Originally by: Chribba
Go F'nog! You're a hero! Not a Zero!  /me bows
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Frisky God
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Posted - 2009.02.28 12:22:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Frisky God on 28/02/2009 12:22:31
why do they call it the xbox 360 because when u see it ull turn 360 degrees and walk away then go over to the ps3 cause the ps3 is better
XBOX SUCKS PS3 RULES
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Jonny Lumi
Gallente
Karjala Inc.
The Polaris Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.28 12:33:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Frisky God
Edited by: Frisky God on 28/02/2009 12:22:31
why do they call it the xbox 360 because when u see it ull turn 360 degrees and walk away then go over to the ps3 cause the ps3 is better
Wouldn't that be 180 degrees?
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Xen Gin
Universal Mining Inc.
Forged Dominion
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Posted - 2009.02.28 12:39:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Jonny Lumi
Originally by: Frisky God
Edited by: Frisky God on 28/02/2009 12:22:31
why do they call it the xbox 360 because when u see it ull turn 360 degrees and walk away then go over to the ps3 cause the ps3 is better
Wouldn't that be 180 degrees?
Yeah, if someone turns 360degrees, they end back on the same heading!
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.02.28 12:42:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Frisky God
Edited by: Frisky God on 28/02/2009 12:22:31
why do they call it the xbox 360 because when u see it ull turn 360 degrees and walk away then go over to the ps3 cause the ps3 is better
XBOX SUCKS PS3 RULES
facepalm.jpeg
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.28 12:50:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 28/02/2009 12:51:06
Originally by: Jonny Lumi
Originally by: Frisky God
Edited by: Frisky God on 28/02/2009 12:22:31
why do they call it the xbox 360 because when u see it ull turn 360 degrees and walk away then go over to the ps3 cause the ps3 is better
Wouldn't that be 180 degrees?
Zing of the day
Originally by: Jago Kain
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
This guy should be banned from all Christian dominated areas
Wow! Satan really has started skating to work
.... I'm in trouble now; there's all sorts of things I swore I'd never do until this happened.
LMAO!!!
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
=v= |
Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.28 13:29:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Dantes Revenge on 28/02/2009 13:32:50
Originally by: Aricaan
Wish I was a lesbian.
I'm male but I like women, I guess that makes me a lesbian as well
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Frisky God
Edited by: Frisky God on 28/02/2009 12:22:31
why do they call it the xbox 360 because when u see it ull turn 360 degrees and walk away then go over to the ps3 cause the ps3 is better
XBOX SUCKS PS3 RULES
facepalm.jpeg
Try this one
--
Originally by: CCP Whisper
No it is not an official statement. Not everything surrounded by blue bars is an official statement which can be quoted as fact until the end of time. Deal with it.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.02.28 23:01:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Frisky God
Edited by: Frisky God on 28/02/2009 12:22:31
why do they call it the xbox 360 because when u see it ull turn 360 degrees and walk away then go over to the ps3 cause the ps3 is better
XBOX SUCKS PS3 RULES
I laugh not because I think you're an idiot, but because everyone else who's quoted this apparently doesn't get the reference.
__________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.01 00:13:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Frisky God
Edited by: Frisky God on 28/02/2009 12:22:31
why do they call it the xbox 360 because when u see it ull turn 360 degrees and walk away then go over to the ps3 cause the ps3 is better
XBOX SUCKS PS3 RULES
I laugh not because I think you're an idiot, but because everyone else who's quoted this apparently doesn't get the reference.
I remember where it came from, but it doesn't make it any less stupid.
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Death4free
Caldari
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2009.03.01 00:47:00 -
[88]
Wow your all abit stupid arent you
why does the person in question feel the need to tell other people they are a lesbian?
Does it really matter do other people really need to know? Hell i dont go around telling other ppl that im heterosexual and im sure (most) of you dont either so why should they kick up a fuss just because theyre a bit different?
Stop attention seeking and all these problems will go away
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Akor Flandres
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Posted - 2009.03.01 01:05:00 -
[89]
Obvious misunderstanding is obvious.
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.03.01 01:14:00 -
[90]
If anyone has a problem with how a company deploys a product, they can always start their own, where you're free to let people do what they want, but until you buy a huge stock in Microsoft or own the world or become God, what you say or think doesn't really matter to them.
On another topic, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
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