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chao226 Wildcats Strike Back	Posted - 2009.03.03 22:22:00 - [31] theres plenty of things in eve one would concider broken. titans I would condier one of them titans are not very useful by themselfs on fleet scales as now battleships can esily be setup to tank one dd. personaly i dont like the whole idea of the dd however i disagree with the op idea to increase the cost of something. this approch has been tryed to fix eve sevral times and failed. when eve was first developed battleships were ment to be few and far between i.e 5 or so in a fleet of 30 smaller ships. they were vastly expensive. these days 95% of fleets and battleships or above. to solve the issue of 2 many battleships dreads were introduced and for a while only the top players were able to afford dreads or carriors but again nowadays there about as common as battleships on 0.0. titans are going a similar way it has justtaken longer because of the massive cost but the aliances are getting there. personaly what I waould say is dd aint a good thing give titans a more useful role major bost to gun capibilitys is an idea
Howie Diddit	Posted - 2009.03.05 21:59:00 - [32] But until CCP decides to do something, whether it is to give Titans a different role....we are still faced with the problem of senseless use of DD in ridiculous situations. A higher cost WOULD make a pilot think twice, on whether or not this is a good use or option. What are we going to do if it is decided that we can't play anymore with the small Titans, we need larger, more expensive ships that can blow up the entire system, if someone dares to undock? Get it under control now. This isn't even touching on a total Titan lockdown of owned space.....yikes!!!
Takashi X2	Posted - 2009.03.06 03:40:00 - [33] not to burst anyones bubbles but regular dictors (especially sabres) pwn titans silly. small ships can all usually warp out if you see the dd started as you do have 10-15 seconds not to mention if you dont have a hic or ic your shoudl be running on sight anyway as theres no way to tackle it. all you have to do is be in warp and even if you still on grid jjust getting in your wont get killed. also if you see a titan in if you have somethign that could tackle it havea em warp out imediatly then imediatly warp back in by teh time the dd goes off it should be back b4 the titan can warp away poof dead titan if you can get hte support b4 they do. O and if you wanna buy a titan your looking at 70-90billion not to mention another 50 or so in mods... (if you have the soveriengty to build on there only 30-50 ish but there exposed for a really long time and can be popped b4 finishing if you dont have ther 23/7 support to make sure its defeneded.
WillageGirl Advanced Tactics and Maneuvers	Posted - 2009.03.06 04:21:00 - [34] Ships geting bigger and more powerfull is not evolution of game, not in the positive sense atleast. The most broken think is EvE has always been the mind set that bigger is better. What EVE needs to remedy the issues is more ways for smaller ships to counter bigger ones, not new bigger ships to counter current big ships. Bomb's were a good try when they were instroduced, unfortunately their design went a bit south and they were kinda forgotten after that (it seems). Nerfing webifiers was a nother step into right direction, since you can actually fight batteships with frigates now. Obviously there are a lot of issues remaining, Titans being one of them. My personal oppinion is that DD should cost a lot more to use. Be it ISK or fuel (maybe fuel would be more natural..) it has to cost a lot more than small T2 fitted roaming gang. When you get 3 titans dropped on 20 man 'ceptor gang while said hotdropper has around 60 man conventional fleet next door, you know theres something wrong... Do Titans need nerfing, I dont think so. Rather introduce frig or destroyer class ships and weapons that specialize on killling caps (and only caps!). Afterall capitals are supposed to be guarded by other ships, not just forming pure capital blobs and nuking everything around them.. Fighting for Our right to Cloak since 2004
Takashi X2	Posted - 2009.03.06 04:29:00 - [35] if the 20man ceptor gang gets popped and podded they deserve it... dd time 15 seconds... align and warp on a ceptor 2-3... lets think about this....
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.03.06 04:56:00 - [36] Even if the titan pilot logs out, isn't the ship still in system for 20 minutes?
Kumi Unn Amarr Gravis Unbound Initiative Associates	Posted - 2009.03.06 15:32:00 - [37] Titans are giant ****s, that explode. Stop whining
Howie Diddit	Posted - 2009.03.06 15:54:00 - [38] Hmmm....getting back to what the post is concerning. You think a 10-20 ship roaming gang, that happens to have a HIC in it, can take down a titan? Wow.....I don't think so kind sir. That is what I'm talking about....corps/alliances that prefer to PVP, getting the DD. If CCP doesn't want to stop that, at least make the Titan pilot think about whether or not it is the economical thing to do....Or whether or not their alliance mates should brush up their PVP skills and fight. It's really that simple....so a Titan gets tackled by a HIC....then what do you do? Shoot all your ammo from 10-20 conventional ships...no caps? Does the Titan die? A titan is designed to take some damage also and aren't as easy to kill, as some here would like to think they are. This is merely a discussion, on some accountability in this game...just because you can afford a Titan (no matter how the isk is obtained), shouldn't mean you press the "I-Win" button on a whim. There should be some give and take there, currently the risk is what? Nothing really. Maybe CCP is wanting PVP to happen in empire thru war decs and low-sec piracy? Titan lovers be careful what you wish for. You may find yourselves DD'ing each other, in your own space, as many will get tired with the current situation, taking the real skill of PVP to systems that allow it to be played.
Takashi X2	Posted - 2009.03.06 16:39:00 - [39] youve obviously never been online when a titan gets tackled.... people make 30-50 jumps just to get on a titan kill mail if you have one tackled it will go down unless you go down first. remeber dd is once an hour only
Howie Diddit	Posted - 2009.03.06 17:48:00 - [40] Well, it seems you are putting your own spin on this. I've been on CAP kills, where people have come 30 jumps to kill a dread or carrier...so what? If they can tackle and don't die, is a ludicrous argument in this post. So let me direct you back again....this isn't about CAP fighting, it's about the game allowing SUPER CAPS, to ruin the game for those that only have interest in REAL GAME TACTICS. Not touching off a DD for a little to nothing cost, without much chance of losing anything. Again, I'm saying and there are many, many in this game that agree, CCP needs to put a give/take into this game for the irresponsible DD. A Titan or two engaging the support fleet of a numerous CAPS, is expected today. There are many Titans in this game, so an argument of how EXPENSIVE they are, is no longer an argument. The apparently are affordable for some or you wouldn't see them. I would bet that a cost of 1-2b for DD, would still make some of these pilots think again, on whether or not to push that button though.
WillageGirl Advanced Tactics and Maneuvers	Posted - 2009.03.07 10:49:00 - [41] Originally by: Takashi X2 if the 20man ceptor gang gets popped and podded they deserve it... dd time 15 seconds... align and warp on a ceptor 2-3... lets think about this.... As mentioned, said gang got hotdropped... Didnt mention anything about geting killed. But that is really not what this topic is about now is it..? Fighting for Our right to Cloak since 2004
Deimi	Posted - 2009.03.07 12:04:00 - [42] I almost find this thread a bit amusing, since its a single guy who takes on the subject from a strictly personal standpoint. Yet I grant him one point here, the Titans of this game are one oddball ship with oddball capabilities and limitations, and often not used as originally intended, as a fleet support ship. So this brew down to the question if we players are supposed to use the tools we have at our disposal as we feel best for ourselves, or have the call for a nerf when people think out of the box and use their Titan to clear out a system from unwanted visitors. Sorry Howie, you know what the solution is already, get into a big alliance and get back on the guy that way. Is it a new forum rule. That for everyone posting something you don't agree on. You should accuse them of being a troll? ;)
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2009.03.07 12:29:00 - [43] Facts: - titans are underpowered for their price. - DD works only once in a while So i am sorry, but i really cant see your point.
TharOkha	Posted - 2009.03.07 13:26:00 - [44] titans are way too underpowered OP is just ****ed off because someone dd him and now he is crying. Titans deserves much more damage to their DD, maybe 1M damage, not 50k. Even well fitted cruiser can survive DD.
AlleyKat Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2009.03.07 18:09:00 - [45] Booya EVE-ONLINE VIDEO-MAKING TUTORIALS
Howie Diddit	Posted - 2009.03.19 13:23:00 - [46] Bottom line is......for cap fleet battles, bring them on if that's what the game wants. For the ordinary conventional battles, there is no need for them. So again, if CCP would address this, by making it a bit more to set off a DD, would alleviate some of that. On another note, it will be interesting to see if the 'super' powers in the game, lose any systems once obtaining sov 3, when they have amassed several titans in the same area.
Melina Quaid	Posted - 2009.03.19 22:06:00 - [47] A 1-hour cooldown grid-wide obliterating weapon system is hardly ruining the game. For 59:30 minutes a titan is just a sitting duck.
Howie Diddit	Posted - 2009.05.31 15:24:00 - [48] Any comments now? Again....CCP blew it. Now to touch on the blob of Titans that the game is currently witnessing? Anyone care to respond to that? I know that the devs won't admit that they blew it on this one or do anything to bring a bit of balance back to the game.
Letifer Deus Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.03 16:13:00 - [49] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Originally by: Valandril Some ships can tank a DD. So they drop a second titan. I don't know many that can tank 2 DD's. My aba did 2 nights ago (and then somehow made it 35 jumps back home, alone). Can't say the same for most of the fleet though. It's always fun to have an enemy gang bring in 2 titans after failing to kill even one of you and then proceed to smack in local. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Inturist The Spirit of War RED.OverLord	Posted - 2009.06.03 16:47:00 - [50] Lolz , not again whining about titans >< gheez ........ So what about all peeps who trained all the skills for it , and spended isks for those skills ? eh ? do u know that it's takes only from titan lvl 4 to titan lvl 5 57 days and book price is 5 bil ? not counting cap ships lvl 5 , ddd lvl 5 , just think before u start posting . --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.06.03 16:57:00 - [51] Originally by: Howie Diddit Current situation in EVE pvp....when you can't beat 10 hostile ships (BS, BC, HAC's, you get the picture) or just don't feel like participating in the sport of pvp, load your titan character and DD that gang. Is this what Titan's are supposed to be all about? Ruining the game for those not involved in non-cap fleets? What is the cost to DD? Not much currently. If CCP doesn't want to get rid of Titans (imho, they should or at least diminish their DD or their tank a bit), then what about a higher cost to activate a DD? Maybe 1-2 billion isk? The isk goes directly to CCP...no player in game gets it. The isk disappears, as well as any ships that get blown up. Maybe some titan pilots would think different of activating a DD, if the cost was higher. Either way...get a grip on it CCP, it is ridiculous and ruining the game for those of us that have no interest in Titans. How would you know this ? according to BC you have no kills and no losses against this character Do you actually have any clue what your talking about ( PvP ) or is this just some imagined danger that you think might happen if you start PvPing ? Post from main ? So lets assume this is not your main for a minute and you actually do PvP. If your out to kill other players and instead you get killed how are we supposed to have any sympathy ? I say peops should be banned from posting to the forums with game change ideas/whinges unless they can demonstrate at least a 1:1 kill/loss ratio.
Morikai Acler Caldari Demon Theory Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.06.03 17:00:00 - [52] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Originally by: Valandril Most fleet setups can tank dd, especialy hictors which will end in titans death. Some ships can tank a DD. So they drop a second titan. I don't know many that can tank 2 DD's. 90% of my ship setups can easily tank 1 DD easily, 75% of my fleet setups can tank 2 DD's, usually even with varying dmg types. Now 3 DD's is very difficult, think about the only 2 ships I have that can do that are a vulture and a rokh, granted if I see more than 2 titans come on to the field I'm warpin out :P, thats what aligning to a warp out is for. I don't know if they're overpowered. I think they're kinda janky myself, more like 1 trick ponies with not much use outside of a hot drop bomb the way they are right now. So, I've come to a conclusion. Titans need to be reworked, and made to be more like their original idea. The original idea was they were a large mobile station, and the be all end all of a system sieging ship, with a super weapon designed for taking down structures quickly. So I honestly think that: 1. Titans should be able to fit a siege module, and enter siege mode the same as dreads. a. The DD could either turn into a focused weapon while in siege mode effected by some kind of damage multiplier. Much the same as regular cap weapons are. Also reducing the cost to fire the focused version. b. DD's could be made scriptable, becoming more higher dmg while focused with much lower refire time and fuel cost. Would make them useful against other caps.
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2009.06.03 19:34:00 - [53] Originally by: Dav Varan Originally by: Howie Diddit Current situation in EVE pvp....when you can't beat 10 hostile ships (BS, BC, HAC's, you get the picture) or just don't feel like participating in the sport of pvp, load your titan character and DD that gang. Is this what Titan's are supposed to be all about? Ruining the game for those not involved in non-cap fleets? What is the cost to DD? Not much currently. If CCP doesn't want to get rid of Titans (imho, they should or at least diminish their DD or their tank a bit), then what about a higher cost to activate a DD? Maybe 1-2 billion isk? The isk goes directly to CCP...no player in game gets it. The isk disappears, as well as any ships that get blown up. Maybe some titan pilots would think different of activating a DD, if the cost was higher. Either way...get a grip on it CCP, it is ridiculous and ruining the game for those of us that have no interest in Titans. How would you know this ? according to BC you have no kills and no losses against this character Do you actually have any clue what your talking about ( PvP ) or is this just some imagined danger that you think might happen if you start PvPing ? Post from main ? So lets assume this is not your main for a minute and you actually do PvP. If your out to kill other players and instead you get killed how are we supposed to have any sympathy ? I say peops should be banned from posting to the forums with game change ideas/whinges unless they can demonstrate at least a 1:1 kill/loss ratio. BC only works if someone posts the mail =) i personally have never used BC only private KB's... so taht being said stop trolling and talk about titans im enjoying this thread lol The only thing i personally do not like about titans is how they are used currently, i however unlike the OP have no problem with the dmg they do and infact believe they should do 75k+ dmg minimal. Originally by: CCP Abraxas Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights.
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2009.06.03 19:35:00 - [54] Originally by: Morikai Acler Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Originally by: Valandril Most fleet setups can tank dd, especialy hictors which will end in titans death. Some ships can tank a DD. So they drop a second titan. I don't know many that can tank 2 DD's. 90% of my ship setups can easily tank 1 DD easily, 75% of my fleet setups can tank 2 DD's, usually even with varying dmg types. Now 3 DD's is very difficult, think about the only 2 ships I have that can do that are a vulture and a rokh, granted if I see more than 2 titans come on to the field I'm warpin out :P, thats what aligning to a warp out is for. I don't know if they're overpowered. I think they're kinda janky myself, more like 1 trick ponies with not much use outside of a hot drop bomb the way they are right now. So, I've come to a conclusion. Titans need to be reworked, and made to be more like their original idea. The original idea was they were a large mobile station, and the be all end all of a system sieging ship, with a super weapon designed for taking down structures quickly. So I honestly think that: 1. Titans should be able to fit a siege module, and enter siege mode the same as dreads. a. The DD could either turn into a focused weapon while in siege mode effected by some kind of damage multiplier. Much the same as regular cap weapons are. Also reducing the cost to fire the focused version. b. DD's could be made scriptable, becoming more higher dmg while focused with much lower refire time and fuel cost. Would make them useful against other caps. This ^^ is not a bad idea Originally by: CCP Abraxas Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights.
Lissome Elan Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.06.03 20:08:00 - [55] How about Titan DD's scale with the signature radius of the ships being DDed? A well tanked frigate (t2 obviously), cruiser, or battlecruiser should be able to survive a DD because less surface area of ship is getting DDed. This would mean that they could cause respectable damage to caps, although I'm not an expert of 0.0 and obviously cap fleets should not be getting triple DDed and all die.
Xorth Adimus Caldari The Perfect Storm Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2009.06.03 22:02:00 - [56] There are now too many titans in the game for the current 'super weapon' mechanic to be anything other then an annoying joke. It shouldn't be a jump/warpin DD warp out to a pos and hide, or take out the whole fleet with two- three/ rinse repeat DD comedy weapon. I believe the titan should be a targeted with an area of effect anti capital/battleship blob weapon say 100km damage radius around target with upto 150km range from the dread (and yes that means you have to lock them first). I agree it could also be more expensive but I think this doesn't really matter if it exists as it does now it will still be (ab)used no matter how expensive how long they have to wait after firing or any other restriction. A titan should however be a useful combat ship for any cap fleet (yes an actual fleet not just a dictor cyno and 1 to 3 titans at extreame range barely on grid ..the f*gs!) I would like to see it become more what it was ment to a heavily tanked capital flagship, a super dread to mirror the super carrier mothership, one you want to, can and have to actually fight in, within a large cap fleet.
Public Consultant	Posted - 2009.06.03 22:10:00 - [57] Edited by: Public Consultant on 03/06/2009 22:10:39 CCP should add super-titans to kill all the titans. And they should also add titan-mining ships. So mining for a titan is easier. Public Consultant - This thread is Titan-ic-ing into the sea!
Howie Diddit	Posted - 2009.06.04 02:17:00 - [58] Edited by: Howie Diddit on 04/06/2009 02:23:55 Edited by: Howie Diddit on 04/06/2009 02:20:00 Edited by: Howie Diddit on 04/06/2009 02:19:28 Yep, not my main, but doesn't mean I don't spend a bit of time in PVP. This isn't about my PVP prowess or yours for that matter, it's about the ridiculous use of Titans. So try and stay on track with that. There are some interesting ideas being posted here....I hope CCP is paying attention. This is actually the only game that I play or intend on playing, so I do have an interest in seeing some things corrected. As for the price of skills...what does that have to do w/anything? Is 5b really a consideration, when you consider the price of the ship (titan) you are flying? Heck what does the carrier skill cost, compared to the price of a carrier? Really that isn't any kind of argument to say that "we spent 5b on a skill, we should be able to blow everything up". Again...keep posting sensible either for or against...if you want to ramble, do it somewhere else. Originally by: Dav Varan How would you know this ? according to BC you have no kills and no losses against this character Do you actually have any clue what your talking about ( PvP ) or is this just some imagined danger that you think might happen if you start PvPing ? Post from main ? So lets assume this is not your main for a minute and you actually do PvP. If your out to kill other players and instead you get killed how are we supposed to have any sympathy ? I say peops should be banned from posting to the forums with game change ideas/whinges unless they can demonstrate at least a 1:1 kill/loss ratio. BTW--my kill/loss ratio isn't as good as yours appears (15:1, but is respectable at a ration higher than 5:1 and again this isn't a reflection of any prowess, but just meeting YOUR minimum requirements to post in my post)
MrHarryCanyon	Posted - 2009.06.04 07:32:00 - [59] Does anyone else out there want to see more titans and dreds duke it out? Personally I would pay to see that. I will give in that all 0.0 shouldn't be run by cap ships and possibly a grading system should be considered (would be nice to run around in 0.0 in a BC or BS). But what is the problem with more titans?
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.06.04 10:44:00 - [60] Originally by: Valandril Originally by: Sigras does anyone remember when dreads were rare? the day titans become as common as dreads = the day sub capital ships become useless in 0.0 So what ? I see this as simple evolution. In the beginigs there were frigs, later cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships and now capitals. Bigger and bigger guns coming all the time as everyones army is getting stronger and stronger. And you really think this is a good game concept? Well, some companies do. They milk the cow as long as possible and already have the next game up their sleeves. Saying this is good game design would be the same as saying "Ah well, EVE is going to die anyways. Let's just hop to the next game when it happens". Always putting new content on top of existing content is very dangerous and might very well end with devaluation of the whole. On a side-note titans would've probably died out due to over-specialisation, if it was real evolution.. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"

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