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TITANS---RUINING EVE

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Mikayla Grey Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.04 11:02:00 - [61] Originally by: Melina Quaid A 1-hour cooldown grid-wide obliterating weapon system is hardly ruining the game. For 59:30 minutes a titan is just a sitting duck. For 59:30 minutes the titan is in a pos. Once you have been in battles with 2-15 titans on the field you might change your mind.
Ekeim	Posted - 2009.06.04 11:49:00 - [62] Isn't there only around 200 of them in existence? Granted, I don't live in nullsec so I'm just going off the count and not experience but I don't see how with that number you're likely to be running into them very often.
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.06.04 13:39:00 - [63] Edited by: Dav Varan on 04/06/2009 13:40:56 Originally by: Howie Diddit Yep, not my main, but doesn't mean I don't spend a bit of time in PVP. This isn't about my PVP prowess or yours for that matter, it's about the ridiculous use of Titans. So try and stay on track with that. Dude I wanted to check the km's to see what had happened , but I cant because your hiding behind an alt. It is about your PVP Prowess whether you like it or not. Your saying you can't cope with titans so they must be broken. "ccp please nerf this because I get killed by it" ? Without being able to see what happened its very hard to comment constructevelly because I have to imagine the scenario that got you killed in the first place. How many times have you been ddd'd ? was a ddd inappropriate for the situation or were you just careless? Was it a gate camp ? Why were you not using a scout ? Did you attack a lone hictor that bubbled and hot dropped a Titan on you ? Why did you not warp out ? Were you caught in the bubble because you were using short range weapons ? Why didnt you use a zoo or lachesis to pin it at range before pooning from range ? I put my money on the second Dude stop blaming Titans, there not broken, you lost ships cause you got careless and allowed yourself to be baited and hot dropped by a superior fighting force. ^^ this is of course speculation , Tell us what happened. A Titan cost 50B at least and heaven knows how much fitted for the same isk an alliance could bring 500 Battleships to the field which would be way superior. Being able to ddd a grid once every hour seems pretty paltry considering the cost of these vessels.
Seishi Maru M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.06.04 13:40:00 - [64] Originally by: Ekeim Isn't there only around 200 of them in existence? Granted, I don't live in nullsec so I'm just going off the count and not experience but I don't see how with that number you're likely to be running into them very often. You do.. almost daily if you are fightign in wars. They are always the very first line of defense on any system under attack. Titans are not roamed around. They are brought in to be exaclty where the enemies of their owners are expected to attack. Theya re incredbly annoying and make the game not fun for hundreds of people most of the times they are used. A LOOOT of players simply do not join fleets when they know enemy has titans expecting.. because its completely frustrating.
Seishi Maru M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.06.04 13:42:00 - [65] Originally by: Dav Varan Edited by: Dav Varan on 04/06/2009 13:40:03 Originally by: Howie Diddit Yep, not my main, but doesn't mean I don't spend a bit of time in PVP. This isn't about my PVP prowess or yours for that matter, it's about the ridiculous use of Titans. So try and stay on track with that. Dude I wanted to check the km's to see what had happened , but I cant because your hiding behind an alt. It is about your PVP Prowess whether you like it or not. Your saying you can't cope with titans so they must be broken. "ccp please nerf this because I get killed by it" ? Without being able to see what happened its very hard to comment constructevelly because I have to imagine the scenario that got you killed in the first place. How many times have you been ddd'd ? was a ddd inappropriate for the situation or were you just careless? Was it a gate camp ? Why were you not using a scout ? Did you attack a lone hictor that bubbled and hot dropped a Titan on you ? Why did you not warp out ? Were you caught in the bubble because you were using short range weapons ? Why didnt you use a zoo or lachesis to pin it at range before pooning from range ? I put my money on the second Dude stop blaming Titans, there not broken, you lost ships cause you got careless and allowed yourself to be baited and hot dropped by a superior fighting force. ^^ this is of course speculation , Tell us what happened. A Titan cost 50B at least and heaven knows how much fitted for the same isk an alliance could bring 500 Battleships which would be way supperior. Being able to ddd a grid once every hour seems pretty paltry considering the cost of these vessels. titans are dirty cheap. Their cost is meaningless. Theyallow you to defend systems with rare moons that can give you a titan every 3 months each one of them. The large alliances could replace 1 titan loss per months.. So no they are NOT expensive at all for alliance level supreme defense weapon.
Raven Timoshenko Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.04 14:44:00 - [66] ahem cough cough Shameless self promotion The Bridge, the Blob and the Black Death Reflections in Starlight
Howie Diddit	Posted - 2009.06.05 12:48:00 - [67] To answer Dav Varan's post-- This isn't just about me or consistent losses to a "DD". Actually, I can think of only 3-4 times that it has happened and I believe I've lost 2 ships to date. This is in over 3 years of playing this game. I am not here to discuss just my losses, as (trust me) I lose plenty in gangs. I am merely pointing out flaws in this game..as I started out this post some time ago, discussing the misuse of Titans. Yes, I have since expanded it to not only how they are used to destroy the conventional PVP gangs (which I don't believe CCP designed them to be used), but to how we now see them used to absolutely OWN systems that won't allow cynos. How many DD's can you equip a ship to withstand, before it is annhilated? This fleet of 500 BS that was talked about? Don't you think that the mega alliances would bring in 3,4,5,6 however many they need, to destroy a fleet like that? Absolutely they would....(assuming an alliance can actually get together a gang of 500 BS and also assuming the lag fest would allow it)...Do I need to provide actual examples of this or can we just look into the NOW and see that it is possible and absolutely would happen? Again, I do appreciate the candor here and not everyone has to is going to agree with me. This is a good game...in general very sound, but these Titan's need to be controlled. CCP it is your move to make this happen...the rest of EVE is waiting.
F0ssa State War Academy	Posted - 2009.06.05 13:26:00 - [68] Hmm just cap the amount of possible titans per system or just alow them to fire the DD once per day.
Leto Aramaus Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.05 14:41:00 - [69] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko ahem cough cough Shameless self promotion The Bridge, the Blob and the Black Death This is a terrific article. Devs should read it. I've never been killed by a titan, but I believe that they are probably being mis-used. My opinion however, is that they are being mis-used because they suck and aren't very useful besides. I would loooove to see titans modified to once again be unbelievably expensive, so they would be a little more rare, and people would be less likely to use them again. Also after increasing their cost, increase their abilities. For example, on eft you cant fit a rack of 6 ion siege blasters on an erebus. 6 seige weapons... and it does about 1200 dps. Couldn't titans be made capital killers too? I would say make the Titan a carrier, a dread, and a doomsday machine. And make them reflect this in price, I think they should need fueled with ice products like posses as well as cost several times more to construct. Biggest ship in the game should be the a **** mobile 1v1 with any other ship. Its called TITAN ffs, that's brutal. But unless theres something I don't know about titans, it looks like a dread would beat it 1 on 1. Not brutal. --Freedom
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.06.05 14:59:00 - [70] Originally by: Howie Diddit Current situation in EVE pvp....when you can't beat 10 hostile ships (BS, BC, HAC's, you get the picture) or just don't feel like participating in the sport of pvp, load your titan character and DD that gang. Either way...get a grip on it CCP, it is ridiculous and ruining the game for those of us that have no interest in Titans. Actually, I can think of only 3-4 times that it has happened and I believe I've lost 2 ships to date. This is in over 3 years of playing this game. OP Discredited, Titan Nerf Whine Destroyed Game Over "You're the kind of people who would complain about the power of the queen if you played chess." Abulurd Boniface
Borb Mizzet Gallente Black Serpent Technologies Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.06 07:33:00 - [71] Empire players need to stop complaining about stuff they don't know about. players complain about 0.0 being nothing but blob warfare. Titans = anti blob weapons. Besides i've used a titans jumpbridge way more than they've used the DD. Don't do to titans what they did to my nanos.
Howie Diddit	Posted - 2009.06.15 13:40:00 - [72] If you don't agree, just say you don't agree. If you don't like the topic...it isn't necessary to read it again and again and again and again. Not everyone is going to agree w/me..I'm aware of that. Bottom line for MANY in this game....Titan's have ruined the framework and are continuing to ruin it. Was the real plan to have a titan congo line DD as much as possible...the ulitimate "I-Win" button? I don't believe it is and I'm sure if CCP would chime in here, they would agree. Maybe something that couldn't be forseen, I don't know. It can still be fixed, so do it.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:23:00 - [73] I can't wait to see pirate titans camping choke points.
Howie Diddit	Posted - 2009.06.20 15:11:00 - [74] So what are the devs going to do about breaking this game. It is utterly ridiculous to see what is happening. Is this really what you want, then when all of the decent areas are exploited, the underlings either head off to npc space or just leave the game?
Abulurd Boniface Gallente Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration	Posted - 2009.06.20 20:45:00 - [75] Originally by: BrysonBennington It's not ruining the game for me, I run in high sector and venture into 0.0 space from time to time. I have once come across this DD, so it is not ruiningthe game for me. Perhaps a nice mining barge in 1.0 is what you need to eleviate the problem. This. There's nothing wrong with Titans. There's just not a 0.0 mining barge. -That- we need. Leave the Titans alone. Abulurd Boniface ME ME CEO
captain skinback	Posted - 2009.06.20 22:12:00 - [76] IT TOOK 16 TITANS TO KILL A CARRIER THEY NEED A DAMN BOOST. ALL THE 28 TITANS WERE NOT ABLE TO KILL THE MOROS. 28 DDDS NO MOROS KILL MAIL FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF this troll thread 10/10 i raged so ****ing hard.
Dark testman	Posted - 2009.06.21 00:35:00 - [77] Originally by: captain skinback IT TOOK 16 TITANS TO KILL A CARRIER THEY NEED A DAMN BOOST. ALL THE 28 TITANS WERE NOT ABLE TO KILL THE MOROS. 28 DDDS NO MOROS KILL MAIL FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF this troll thread 10/10 i raged so ****ing hard. Uh.. that could actually be the perfect example on why its a problem. I saw the video thought it was 12 but hey if its 28 then obviously Titans are too cheap and wasting 28 DDD means the cost is trivial to fire them, Sure we have 28 now, how long ago was it that we never expected more then 3 in a system. How long till we see the Great conga line of death where they bring the 60 Titans on a single field. and they start chaining their DDDs off because the can? titans we're expected to not be fielded in large numbers, but now they are common. The great anti-blob weapon is now being used in blobs?
Mos7Wan7ed	Posted - 2009.06.21 01:08:00 - [78] Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed on 21/06/2009 01:15:58 the notion that titan pilots only log in their caps when a bridge or DD needs to go off during large fleet engagements is totally wrong. I have seen three different times, DD's were used on fleets smaller then 20 ships. This is not the intended role of the ship. same went for mother ships and carriers before their roles were enforced by CCP nerf bats. fuel increase of 500M-1B i think would be appropriate. It prevents the drive by dd of small ship gangs and limits the use to serious fleet battles. Of course if an alliance wants to fund drive by's it is still going to happen. possibly some number of DD's / per hour / per grid limit as well would cut down on blobbing, because the dd capability of the remaining would be nerfed for that grid for the rest of the hour. Why? You can't seriously think ccp's ideas for the titan's included having 30 of them dropped on a conventional cap fleet to vaporize it.
Howie Diddit	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:37:00 - [79] Still no word from CCP. This game is literally screaming for something to be done w/these behemoths, but nothing. They obviously haven't done anything to reduce any lag in fleet battles, as locals are still popping in huge numbers, when battle looms. They also have DD released indiscriminatley, when used against very small gangs of those that wish to PVP. So what gives here? When are we going to hear something from CCP on this matter?
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:46:00 - [80] Hmmm just a thought: ability to DD only if titan was damaged past 5-10 minutes (xxxx amount of damage taken so shieldtanks arent screwed). Wont be able to make DD runs, only use it as defensive weapon.
Abulurd Boniface Gallente Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration	Posted - 2009.06.23 17:29:00 - [81] Edited by: Abulurd Boniface on 23/06/2009 17:31:48 Originally by: Howie Diddit Still no word from CCP. This game is literally screaming for something to be done w/these behemoths, but nothing. They obviously haven't done anything to reduce any lag in fleet battles, as locals are still popping in huge numbers, when battle looms. They also have DD released indiscriminatley, when used against very small gangs of those that wish to PVP. So what gives here? When are we going to hear something from CCP on this matter? But is that not exactly what the game allows for? Titans, by and large, operate in the lawless regions of space. And you want CCP policing how ships operate? Why would you want that? Why would a Titan driver not be able to take out a single frigate with a DDD if he so chose? In what way is a Titan blowing up a clutch of ships different from a gate camp destroying an Iteron V as soon as lock is possible? It's 0.0 space, your basic average free for all. On the one hand I hear that Titans can be taken, on the other they are well-neigh invincible. Which is it? If they can be taken out, why don't you? If they can't be taken out by the rag tag fleet of pirate killers, why not hop into your own Titan and cry havoc? Is the answer to a fleet of Titans declaring dominance not another fleet of Titans challenging that claim? Why this lament about not being able to fight against the big bully when that is precisely what happens when a lone miner runs into a gate camp? Why are you worthy of more consideration than anyone who has ever been caught unawares in a defenceless space frame? Isn't that what EVE is about? Did I not quite get that part? There is no sight more endearing than to see huge red blooms on the heat map where hundreds, if not thousands, of ships have been destroyed in the last 24 hours. It bespeaks hundreds of people in need of new space frames, it is the driving force behind a vibrant New Eden economy. Let the Titans roam free and destroy all that comes before them. It is a blessing for the industrial community. Abulurd Boniface ME ME CEO
ShadowDraqon The Quantum Company Independent Faction	Posted - 2009.06.23 17:38:00 - [82] Here's a crazy, crazy idea: BOOST TITANS! Yes, you read correctly. Then make them cost a lot, lot more and require upkeep fuel, they are POSes with engines on them after all... ~ MED-SEC ~ AND The Blatantly Obvious
John Blackthorn Foundation Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.06.23 18:10:00 - [83] Yes, I've seen titans DD small gangs, and the reason I've seen this happen is because the Titan pilot was new and wanted the experience. Better to practice with little risk than practice during a large fleet fight. The second thing that was interesting was the comment about super capital pilots not engaging in conventional warships and that is simple to answer. They can't dock the titan or mother ship and switch out to a b.s. If titans get a change from Doomsday I always thought it a possible change would be a super weapon that say would destroy one dread, carrier, or highly damage a pos/outpost in a single shot. Reload time would be about 5 minutes.
Photus Caldari Roll For Initiative	Posted - 2009.06.23 18:31:00 - [84] So, a Death Star 2 that can target single objects instead of an omni directional death ray? Wow, that'd gimp them! Not sure that's a bad thing or not, but it'd REALLY gimp them.
Ciara Daag Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.06.24 09:28:00 - [85] Originally by: Howie Diddit Current situation in EVE pvp....when you can't beat 10 hostile ships (BS, BC, HAC's, you get the picture) or just don't feel like participating in the sport of pvp, load your titan character and DD that gang. Is this what Titan's are supposed to be all about? Ruining the game for those not involved in non-cap fleets? What is the cost to DD? Not much currently. If CCP doesn't want to get rid of Titans (imho, they should or at least diminish their DD or their tank a bit), then what about a higher cost to activate a DD? Maybe 1-2 billion isk? The isk goes directly to CCP...no player in game gets it. The isk disappears, as well as any ships that get blown up. Maybe some titan pilots would think different of activating a DD, if the cost was higher. Either way...get a grip on it CCP, it is ridiculous and ruining the game for those of us that have no interest in Titans. These are 50billion isk ships owned by large alliances or the most wealthy of players. Furthermore they are lost,all the time. When they are,its a big deal too. They are worth 80-100 carriers,or 500 battleships. They are used if massive fleet battles and used very carefully. They can deal a huge blow to an enemy that makes a mistake and lets their fleet be hit. They can change the tide of a battle. Just ask RA,who was careless enough to get hit twice in the battle for 5C. On the other hand,you can tank a ship against them. Ships can easily be tanked against them,and if they are not,its because someone decided that they would rather have more damage or cap. They decide that the risk of being doomsdayed is small enough that the benefit from other things outweighs it. What I see is that your fleet commander ordered you into a fight where you took a DD in the face and you were not prepared for it. Thats probably your fleet commanders fault,unless he expected you to be able to tank it,then it might be your fault. In any event,if titans are ruining the game for you,then you should reexamine how your playing. Ive NEVER been killed by a DD. Never,not even once. Many of my corp mates have been,but not many times. If your getting taking a DD in the face every time you fly,maybe you should consider a corp with better fleet commanders. The spectre of multiple Titans however does raise a red flag. There might need to be some changes to fix that. It needs to be done carefully however. Many ideas will make things worse,or make the DD compeletly useless. Consider these options and their unintended side effects. Solution: Make a DD only work once in a grid for six hours. Unintended Problem: a defenders titans will set off their DD every six hours so that the enemy cant use theirs Solution: Make DD do 70% damage to all ships instead of insta popping Unintended Problem: DD is now 100% useless,and might as well be removed from game. Titan will DD,titans fleet will destroy a few targets and the rest will warp away. In essence a 50billion isk ship will help destroy 3 ships,that could have been destroyed by the same fleet without the titan anyway. Solution: A ship hit by a DD cannot be damaged by another DD for six hours. Unintended Problem: Ships will be fitted with huge tanks,and freindly Titans will inoculate their ships against the DD device. Solution: Increase cost of DD Unintended Problem: Not really a problem,it just wont work. Usually a DD is used to attack large fleets,where even a billion isk may well be worth it. Alliances will just find ways to fund it,much as the find ways to fund buidling them in the first place,or replacing 10 billion isk worth of ships lost in a fleet batter. Solution: Decrease the tank of the titans Unintended Problem: Wont stop titans from using DD devices. When titans go down there is usually a big fleet fight to save them anyway,which will be reduced or eliminated. You now have less fleet battles,not more.
Ciara Daag Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.06.24 09:35:00 - [86] Edited by: Ciara Daag on 24/06/2009 09:36:24 Originally by: Seishi Maru Originally by: Ekeim Isn't there only around 200 of them in existence? Granted, I don't live in nullsec so I'm just going off the count and not experience but I don't see how with that number you're likely to be running into them very often. You do.. almost daily if you are fightign in wars. They are always the very first line of defense on any system under attack. Titans are not roamed around. They are brought in to be exaclty where the enemies of their owners are expected to attack. Theya re incredbly annoying and make the game not fun for hundreds of people most of the times they are used. A LOOOT of players simply do not join fleets when they know enemy has titans expecting.. because its completely frustrating. No,a lot of people from YOUR alliance don't join fleets if they know the enemy has titans. Where are YOUR alliances titans? Do you even use them or do you not fly your caps because your afraid of losing them? If your players are not joining fleets because they are worried about dying,then that just means they are cowards. If your dying daily to titans,your fleet commanders should be replaced. Ask yourself this,if your dying to titans every day and losing,and enemies are winning,why are your enemies not dying to your titans? Why are you not winning some of these fights. Its because your enemies are better than you,and you cant compete. Its not because one ship is broken,its because your fleet commanders are incompetent. As someone who has flow in fleets in the NC before,and who has now moved on,I can say,the problem isn't the titans,its that you just cant field the kind of fleets with the kind of people to be competitive.
Ciara Daag Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.06.24 09:47:00 - [87] Originally by: Howie Diddit To answer Dav Varan's post-- This isn't just about me or consistent losses to a "DD". Actually, I can think of only 3-4 times that it has happened and I believe I've lost 2 ships to date. This is in over 3 years of playing this game. I am not here to discuss just my losses, as (trust me) I lose plenty in gangs. I am merely pointing out flaws in this game..as I started out this post some time ago, discussing the misuse of Titans. Yes, I have since expanded it to not only how they are used to destroy the conventional PVP gangs (which I don't believe CCP designed them to be used), but to how we now see them used to absolutely OWN systems that won't allow cynos. How many DD's can you equip a ship to withstand, before it is annhilated? This fleet of 500 BS that was talked about? Don't you think that the mega alliances would bring in 3,4,5,6 however many they need, to destroy a fleet like that? Absolutely they would....(assuming an alliance can actually get together a gang of 500 BS and also assuming the lag fest would allow it)...Do I need to provide actual examples of this or can we just look into the NOW and see that it is possible and absolutely would happen? Again, I do appreciate the candor here and not everyone has to is going to agree with me. This is a good game...in general very sound, but these Titan's need to be controlled. CCP it is your move to make this happen...the rest of EVE is waiting. Is see no problem with that. Think back to the Max campaign up in Dek. Iron defended their systems for quite awhile. For that matter (we,yes,I was in Iron at the time,and BTW,hats off to Lord2Evil who lost his personal titan!) In fact,when we fell back to SD a very small number in Iron,those few who fought and would not give up held on to that system to spite terrible odds for far longer than anyone could have expected them to. My point is,the game MUST be biased toward the defenders. If not there is no game. If you think about it,it makes sense. You jam and fortify a system. The enemy attacks many times and you defend against it,but if the enemy manages to breach your walls (cyno jammer) then the system falls. You can succeed in defending many many times,but your enemy must succeed in their attack only once. Therefore the argument that titans make it too easy to defend is pointless. Titans are hard to destroy. They are hard to attack. In the end however,titans ARE destroyed and titans are successfully attacked and systems with titans ARE taken. IRON had titans and they still lost systems during Max. Can you name ANY alliance whose systems have never been taken where it was due to their titans?
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.24 11:59:00 - [88] Originally by: Ciara Daag Can you name ANY alliance whose systems have never been taken where it was due to their titans? Goonswarm y1i (or similiar name, dont remember now). After goons+allies managed to get INTO the system they put titan blob on watch and there was no way system could be retaken. Titans win the day. Or if you mean whole alliances: Morsus Mihi with their 24/7 titan spam in tribute during max. They lost only M-O and it was before it was as heavily fortifid at it is now + it was fast switch of target from BOB (from vale to tribute) that prolly caught MM off guard. After this dding 24/7 stopped any advance.
Ciara Daag Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.06.25 17:08:00 - [89] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Ciara Daag Can you name ANY alliance whose systems have never been taken where it was due to their titans? Goonswarm y1i (or similiar name, dont remember now). After goons+allies managed to get INTO the system they put titan blob on watch and there was no way system could be retaken. Titans win the day. Or if you mean whole alliances: Morsus Mihi with their 24/7 titan spam in tribute during max. They lost only M-O and it was before it was as heavily fortifid at it is now + it was fast switch of target from BOB (from vale to tribute) that prolly caught MM off guard. After this dding 24/7 stopped any advance. Given enough time,a system falls. The defenders may win many times,but what was learned in Max was,a attacker only has to succeed once.
Howie Diddit	Posted - 2009.07.07 02:33:00 - [90] I am just curious....Why is it that CCP refuses to respond to anything having to do with Titans? What is so hard to see that this game is screwed up, because of this. Noone blames anyone for bringing the ship to the game. It just needs to be changed, it is ridiculous the way this thing has evolved. Anyone want to step up to the plate and explain why?

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OP Discredited, Titan Nerf Whine Destroyed Game Over