I wouldn't be so sure.

As it stands you get a warning when shooting someone who is older than you, in a better and more skill intensive ship than you, in a rookie system if the older character is considered a rookie (meaning the one doing the shooting woudl be a rookie too). And in Arnon, a "rookie" can grab from PvPers cans all they want and if they get shot, they can just get someone banned. Its the ultimate griefing, and CCP encourages it.

Come on, people, just apply common sense. Do you really have to rely on trying to grief (or gank or whatever) players in those few 1.0 systems that are designated as newbie starting areas?

Also, why should someone carry PLEX around a newbie system? Wait till he leaves it, shoot him down.

Just think back of your first few days in Eve. Where did you hang out, what did you do?

OK Just a simple question. Who in here thinks a 2 week old player hauling 25 Billion isk worth of anything in a T1 industrial would be a rookie? Could I see hands please.

It's not though.

Even an act like storing X amount of isk worth of goods in an ibus can remove a timer.

You find a Badger I carrying 25 billion in technetium coming out of gate cloak on a the EC-P8R gate in Torrinos, check him. Under a month. Move onGǪ?

I wouldn't be so sure.

As it stands you get a warning when shooting someone who is older than you, in a better and more skill intensive ship than you, in a rookie system if the older character is considered a rookie (meaning the one doing the shooting woudl be a rookie too). And in Arnon, a "rookie" can grab from PvPers cans all they want and if they get shot, they can just get someone banned. Its the ultimate griefing, and CCP encourages it.

Many of us have really gone over the rookie hauling tons of goods scenario. Now I'll attempt to ask the question that got erased earlier. The main situation that brought up this thread and its twin yesterday was about a guy going into a rookies epic arc mission that was in a system that was not designated starter.
So I ask, why does a person have to scan down a rookies mission, fly into it, steal from his can, and pop him? Is he carrying Avatar BPO's in his hold as well?

If it is made absolutely and in every way illegal to attack rookies, then anyone with any kinds of brains will keep creating rookies for any form of risky hauling, travel, and/or spying.

Even if (in fact, especially if) there are non-public GM-discretion rules that someone who's using his umpty-eleventh recycled alt to do this will not be considered a rookie and is free to attack, there is no way for the rest of us to determine this and figure out that, yes, we can indeed attack this apparent rookie without censure, because he is in fact not a rookie at all. Even tying it to the account age and providing a public GÇ£newbieGÇ¥ flag on characters on that account will not stop this GÇö people will use trials and buddy accounts to create the same protection against their characters. The outside capriciousness of the GMs' decisions makes it suicidal to try to stop even a blatantly obvious non-rookie because there is no way of knowing whether they will think it's as obvious as you do (and the obviousness might turn out to be wrong).

Suddenly, we have an entire class of characters that can do immense damage to people around them, but which cannot be retaliated against or interdicted. This would be far more damaging to the game than the occasional innocent rookie getting blown up.

The harm is that we can't make the distinction, so the GMs would never have the opportunity to make it GÇö no-one will be stupid enough to attack such a character because you never know (and that's also why the moronic GÇ£try it GÇö if you get banned it was wrongGÇ¥ argument presented earlier is so insanely and laughably stupid). It creates a layer of protection that these older players should never have, and it does so because it is impossible to distinguish them from actual rookies by those who really need to be able to make that distinction GÇö the players.

Why do people feel the need to pvp in a starter system?

Edit: I should clarify to Can PVP, wardecs excluded.

Ok, this seems to be getting out of hand and our rulings are pulled out of context. So let me state this in the most simple terms possible.

1. New PLAYERS are protected by CCP in the systems listed here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems
2. No one is protected in systems outside of this list.
3. None but new PLAYERS are protected by CCP in any way.
4. If new PLAYERS keep getting harassed the list of systems may be expanded.
5. Players cannot see which characters are new PLAYERS and which are old players with new CHARACTERS; game masters CAN see this and we act accordingly.
6. It is impossible to define what a new PLAYER is in a way that is comprehensible, to the point and without loop holes, in addition to our players able to apply these rules to their fellow players around them. This means that we will not provide a hard definition to our player base, however game masters internally can apply these rules consistently and without bias.
7. In general do NOT mess around with new PLAYERS; anyone else is fair game.

The above guidelines are not up for discussion and they will not be further clarified. If you need further clarification you are probably doing something you should not be doing.

Ok, this seems to be getting out of hand and our rulings are pulled out of context. So let me state this in the most simple terms possible.

1. New PLAYERS are protected by CCP in the systems listed here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems
2. No one is protected in systems outside of this list.
4. If new PLAYERS keep getting harassed the list of systems may be expanded.
7. In general do NOT mess around with new PLAYERS; anyone else is fair game.

The above guidelines are not up for discussion and they will not be further clarified. If you need further clarification you are probably doing something you should not be doing.

No, see my post above. We can define it, but you, as a player, have no way of verifying if another player fits the criteria.

Greg Valanti, there are all kinds of opportunities for new players to do combat and Piracy. Join factional warfare for the fights. Heck if you do well enough on the beginner missions, you do actually get an invite to move to pirate factional systems. In the world of eve, you have to work at being good at something. Nothing comes easy. I've actually spent a fair amount of time doing what I'm beginning to call old school piracy. I actually did really well ISK wise, had a guy in a freighter eject from his ship when he thought he was going to die. We actually got the ship, and every single thing that was in it. Still have the freighter to this day.
I did all my piracy in low sec. Home of the pirates. Head out there, make a few friends, you'll be camping gates before you know it.

Oh, so you are saying we players are stupid. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

If a "rookie" like that can take these actions he is obviously not a rookie and is thus not protected. Common sense; apply it.

You just said in (2) that nobody is protected outside of rookie systems. Then you went on to say in (7), "Even though they're not protected outside of those systems, don't mess with them anywhere else, either " which, as a GM edict, could be interpreted as policy. So now you have two policy points that directly contradict each other, and (4) is the cherry on top - "or else".

You couldn't make it through a brief synopsis of your position without contradicting both yourself and policy as it is currently known. This should probably be taken as an indication that you need to rethink things.

No, see my post above. We can define it, but you, as a player, have no way of verifying if another player fits the criteria.

It's not out of line for a rookie to join a corporation that is wardecced or to haul something between stations for money. There are many other situations where a new player could legitimately enter a scenario where they could blow up or blow someone else up due to the hands of another player in EvE Online, a spaceship game designed around blowing other spaceships.

Since nothing of much economic value happens in rookie systems, the only thing this really applies to is something like "are Hulks in rookie systems 'rookies'?"

Dear lord... Hulks are advanced T2 ships. I am not going to dignify this with a real answer.

Dear lord... Hulks are advanced T2 ships. I am not going to dignify this with a real answer.

We do not want you to mess with them, that does not mean we come down with the ban hammer if you do so outside the mentioned systems. Not everything is black and white. These points do not conflict; 4 and 7 simply mean that if the situation OUTSIDE those systems gets too bad we will take further action. Thus INSIDE the systems it isn't allowed period, OUTSIDE those systems it is allowed, but we may evaluate if things get out of hand.

Dear lord... Hulks are advanced T2 ships. I am not going to dignify this with a real answer.

We do not want you to mess with them, that does not mean we come down with the ban hammer if you do so outside the mentioned systems. Not everything is black and white. These points do not conflict; 4 and 7 simply mean that if the situation OUTSIDE those systems gets too bad we will take further action. Thus INSIDE the systems it isn't allowed period, OUTSIDE those systems it is allowed, but we may evaluate if things get out of hand.

That is your job though, to answer questions. By your own words you refuse to define what constitutes a new player, so we as players cannot second guess what you define is a new player - even if said player is in a Hulk.

Here is a simple solution. A totally new player, new account and all. Will have a title before their name. "Rookie" CCP can easily script this into the game and when the "Rookie" is no longer a "Rookie" based on meeting whatever criteria CCP sets for someone being a rookie...then the Rookie title is removed.