| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Mussaschi
   |
Posted - 2009.03.02 11:25:00 -
[1]
I have some problems with the influence of scan strength. Frankly it seems, that it is "almost" useless. Did some exploration in something other than a covered ops and still had no problems to lock down a site. So why use a fragile covered ops frig, when the bonus is useless. Same applies to sister probes and the virtue implants. If you can lock anything down anyways, all this bonus/skills are simply useless. Will it stay that way?
|
Great Artista
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 11:33:00 -
[2]
Yeah, but then again CCP made the exploration probe launchers take little cpu so they can be fitted on non-probing specced ships. Reduces the chances of being permanently stuck in WH space.
Maybe probe agility/warp speed bonus on cov-ops? Make it BIG bonus too, like 20% per level, so there is still sense in using the coverts for scanning.
Just throwing it out there. 
_______
◕◡◕
|
Ineun
Internal Anarchy
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 12:06:00 -
[3]
im pretty sure the probes base their warp speed off the ships base warp speed anyway, saw this somewhere (probe warp speed multiplier i think)
what they need to do is make the covops much better for scanning ships like it used to be, where you could find a guys safespot in a system within 30 seconds and be ready to warp your fleet on him at 0 within 60
|
Warscythe Prime
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 12:12:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Mussaschi
a covered ops
Covert Ops...
|
Chips nBeans
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 12:41:00 -
[5]
Yup, prepare to see the prices on everything fall to the bottom of the useless pile.
Think of all those probe blue prints that everyone has invested in, not worth the paper they are written on now. Astrometrics 5? wasted training time, Sisters of Eve loyalty points... implants will now be worthless, as will Sisters probe launchers, as will all the probes.. about the only profitable thing left there will be skills books.
I expect a lot of angry threads, lol. 
|
Wingshard
Ikazuchi and Raikou Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 13:19:00 -
[6]
actualy astrometrics 5 will stil be useful but only cause of moonprobes.... well not really useful but not a total waste to have :P
|
Mussaschi
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 13:21:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Chips nBeans
I expect a lot of angry threads, lol.
It's not the SP or LP or ISK what is wasted now, it is that there is no need at all, to learn this skills. The most time consuming about the scanning system is to locate the probes on the right spot (even made harder, by this great interface).
Scan strength plays (as far as I have experienced) no role in that. So whether you want to scan down a 10/10 plex or a 0.0 Wormhole, you do it within minutes, regardless of this skills. So why bother.
And useless skills are ultimately just boring
|
Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Katsu Response Unit
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 13:37:00 -
[8]
huh? Thought Astrometrics V would be needed for the Deep Space probes. The ones that will replace the current multispecs, no?
*Haven't been on Sisi yet so plz be kind ^^
|
Captain Vampire
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 13:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki
huh? Thought Astrometrics V would be needed for the Deep Space probes. The ones that will replace the current multispecs, no?
*Haven't been on Sisi yet so plz be kind ^^
No, it is a bug afaik. Only advantage with Astro V is the fact that you can have 8 probes in space, which makes scanning stuff A LOT easier.
|
Mussaschi
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 13:53:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Mussaschi on 02/03/2009 13:53:06
Originally by: Captain Vampire
which makes scanning stuff A LOT easier.
Really? It took me 4 min to lock down a site in 0.0 with 5 probes in non covert-ops. How much faster will it get with 8, or did I overread the sarcasm tag?
|
|
|
Dadder
Quantum Revolutions
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 13:58:00 -
[11]
I actually had found a spot yesterday that i could NOT get a 100% scan on using a recon. best i could actually get was about 60%. this was after easily finding several other sites and i even reverted to using the system of narrowing it down to 100% with one probe then stacking probes on the first one.
Just for clarification, i have been scanning on sisi all along and know very well how it works (or doesn't usually), this site would have required a cov-ops or perhaps better skills then just astrometrics IV.
|
Space Wanderer
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 14:12:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 02/03/2009 14:14:21
Holy Moses, this thread is a festival of misinformation. Some infos:
1) Scan str in the CURRENT (read: bugged) state of scanner probes is not useful, EXCEPT to determine if it is impossible for you to find a site/ship. In essence if your scan str bonuses are too low there are some sites/ships you won't be able to find no matter what.
2) Scan str in the (hopefully) completed version of the scan system will probably affect the deviation of the reported spot. Thus, it will make it easier to find a site/ship (in addition to what written in 1).
3) Astro V required to use deep space probes is NOT a bug, but an intended feature, explicitly done by greyscale.
4) Deep space probes are definitely not needed for exploration, although could be marginally useful. Their main use is to bust deep safes.
5) 8 probes vs 7 is not that much better to find a single site, if you know what you are doing. The thing for what it could be useful is whether you are looking two sites/ships at the same time, or to scan two potential safes at the same time.
|
Sleepkevert
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 14:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
5) 8 probes vs 7 is not that much better to find a single site, if you know what you are doing. The thing for what it could be useful is whether you are looking two sites/ships at the same time, or to scan two potential safes at the same time.
I think a Dev said that in the current implementation the signal strength is calculated from the 4 best hits. So your scan strength will not increase with the amount of probes...
_
Add your own line! |
Space Wanderer
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 14:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sleepkevert
I think a Dev said that in the current implementation the signal strength is calculated from the 4 best hits. So your scan strength will not increase with the amount of probes...
That is correct. The reason why more probes might still be (marginally) useful is because with more probes you have more points from which to choose the "4 best hits". But if you know what you are doing that shouldn't make any difference.
|
Red 7
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 14:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
4) Deep space probes are definitely not needed for exploration, although could be marginally useful. Their main use is to bust deep safes.
Don't underestimate the value of Deep Space in W-Space systems with lots of sigs. They are invaluable in finding all signals quickly.
Try:
a) Zooming out in the system map as much as possible centered on the sun
b) Drop 2 DS probes and move them to opposite sites of the display
c) Scan & then use 1 or 2 cores to narrow down the signal to a small filled circle
|
Space Wanderer
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 14:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Red 7
Don't underestimate the value of Deep Space in W-Space systems with lots of sigs.
Oh, I don't, I admit they are convenient. But you shouldn't underestimate the effect of deviation, either. What you suggest will work only until deviation is introduced in 2+ probe hits. When (if?) deviation is introduced, the maximum deviation of 512AU will make DSP quite redundant, except to multispec the system or bust deep safespots.
|
OMGJITA
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 14:51:00 -
[17]
my MAX skilled scanning alt char is slightly ****ed off at this...
|
Red 7
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 14:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 02/03/2009 14:48:43
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 02/03/2009 14:47:38
Originally by: Red 7
Don't underestimate the value of Deep Space in W-Space systems with lots of sigs.
Oh, I don't, I admit they are convenient, although not a necessity. But you shouldn't underestimate the effect of deviation, either. What you suggest will work only until deviation is introduced in 2+ probe hits. When (if?) deviation is introduced, the maximum deviation of 512AU will probably make DSP quite redundant, except to multispec the system or bust deep safespots.
Even with a max deviation of 512 AU (reduced with skills) - using a further DS (making 3) would provide enough information to make resolution of the signal much simpler wouldn't it?
|
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 15:09:00 -
[19]
The Deep Space Probes are meant to replace OBSERVATORS.
Anyway, scanning being easier to not suddenly mean that running the sites and doing them have become easier.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
|
Chips nBeans
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 15:09:00 -
[20]
dont get me wrong, I love the new system, OK, so certain parts might actually be harder, but ultimately quicker and so more enjoyable (instead of staring at a timer)
As for having 8 probes out.. well you never need more than 4, unless your a nub and only understand spamming probes. So signal strength and AstroV does have an effect... great, but the effect is so marginal that no fool will spend 3 months training all the skills.
Makes me laugh actually, there is all this argument about learning skills benefiting players after so many years, and now 3 months worth of training has become relatively pointless.
Glad I never trained them, and even more glad I didnt spend my LP/ISK on useless 500m implants.
|
|
|
Tetractys
Gallente
Masterminds Industries
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 15:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Chips nBeans
dont get me wrong, I love the new system, OK, so certain parts might actually be harder, but ultimately quicker and so more enjoyable (instead of staring at a timer)
As for having 8 probes out.. well you never need more than 4, unless your a nub and only understand spamming probes. So signal strength and AstroV does have an effect... great, but the effect is so marginal that no fool will spend 3 months training all the skills.
Makes me laugh actually, there is all this argument about learning skills benefiting players after so many years, and now 3 months worth of training has become relatively pointless.
Glad I never trained them, and even more glad I didnt spend my LP/ISK on useless 500m implants.
/signed
CCP have to do something with this problem. for sure. 3 month of hard skilling (Signal Acquisition is a rank 8  - fortunately for me stopped at lvl 4  ) must have a balanced solution.
|
Space Wanderer
|
Posted - 2009.03.02 15:26:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Red 7
Even with a max deviation of 512 AU (reduced with skills) - using a further DS (making 3) would provide enough information to make resolution of the signal much simpler wouldn't it?
I don't think much. Assuming all the reductions of skills etc, I think it is very realistic that the red spot may easily deviate on a radius of 100AU (check the distance deviation of single probe scans, if you don't believe me). This is larger than most solar systems are. You would need subsequent iterations with DSP at smaller ranges to pinpoint the site in adecent area that can then be tackled by core or combat probes. Unless you are explicitly looking for something outside the boundaries of the solar system it would take you much less time to start scanning immediately with 32AU probes.
|
Exoth3rmic
|
Posted - 2009.03.03 00:01:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Exoth3rmic on 03/03/2009 00:03:24
Whilst it is undoubtedly true that scanning down signatures is now in essence quicker and easier, without max (or high) skills AND being the pilot of a cov ops you can't scan down _every_ signature. So the high end plexes etc are stil the domain of those who skilled for exploration.
If you skilled up just to find low end plexes faster....well you only did it for the profit and that you will have already had, and will continue to have, the benefit of that training.
|
Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Nex Eternus
|
Posted - 2009.03.03 00:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Exoth3rmic
Edited by: Exoth3rmic on 03/03/2009 00:03:24
If you skilled up just to find low end plexes faster....well you only did it for the profit and that you will have already had, and will continue to have, the benefit of that training.
Big if. I suspect a sizable majority of people who maxed out CovOps skills did it for PvP reasons.
If there is a problem (and I'm not saying there is even though I do recognise the concern others have raised) I think it is that in the context of wormhole space unless you are in a gang of 20 with capital support the Sleepers are so bloody hard that no one is going to be looking for the hardest signatures anyway. And given that PvP scanning would now appear to be a dead art I think some people have the understandable concern that an entire class of ships (namely CovOps) and the associated skills are about to be made pretty much redundant.
|
ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
|
Posted - 2009.03.03 00:58:00 -
[25]
apply the bonuses perhaps to combat probes only
|
Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Nex Eternus
|
Posted - 2009.03.03 01:09:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Great Artista
Maybe probe agility/warp speed bonus on cov-ops? Make it BIG bonus too, like 20% per level, so there is still sense in using the coverts for scanning.
Just throwing it out there.
I'd go with something like that. Atm in a large system it takes longer for your probes to warp to their probing locations and return to the ship than it currently takes to actually probe out a ship and warp to it on Tranquility.
Originally by: Space Wanderer
2) Scan str in the (hopefully) completed version of the scan system will probably affect the deviation of the reported spot. Thus, it will make it easier to find a site/ship (in addition to what written in 1).
Considering we are now 5 working days from go-live and so far they haven't even got close to having the scanning UI working properly yet, and have already dropped more from this upgrade than pretty much any other, I wouldn't bet much on deviation making it into M10.
And even if deviation does make it in there's a fair chance that the only effect of that will be that low skilled chars will have to make one extra 10 second scan to narrow down their results. That's not much to show for training a rank 8 skill to lvl V.
|
Exoth3rmic
|
Posted - 2009.03.03 01:13:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Exoth3rmic on 03/03/2009 01:18:28
Quote:
Big if. I suspect a sizable majority of people who maxed out CovOps skills did it for PvP reasons.
Obviously this is from an exploration point of view, not from a pvp perspective. I think all would agree that for pvp purposes the system needs either to be re-specd as you yourself mention. Wormholes do offer PvP, but were primarily added for explorers - who they then let through the harder to find WH's is up to them.
|
ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
|
Posted - 2009.03.03 01:43:00 -
[28]
yes they seem to have made some changes today but they go to far can only find amols having a very hard time tracking down signatures
|
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
DEATH'S LEGION
Red Box.
|
Posted - 2009.03.03 04:19:00 -
[29]
Hmm, in my experience the scan strength bonus does help a great deal (at least with my sucky skills ).
Example:
Scanned like 6 hours in numerous lowsec system with a regular ship (probe base str 48 for me), this left me with a large number of sites I couldnt find, got anywhere around 80-97% but no warpable result possible.
Switched to cheetah (probe base str 67 for me), went back to the systems, and found most of them (still on it atm, but I guess I'll get them all as I had good success on the very weak sigs).
|
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
|
Posted - 2009.03.03 04:49:00 -
[30]
tbh, the only really useful skill that's worth V'ing is astrometrics.
for me anyways; having 4 deeps and 4 cores at the same time, switching back and forth when mapping those 20+ signatures in Wspace? sounds perfect. actually... not even switching but keep both quadruplets going every time.
same for combat probing really: keeping the combat probes in their tetrahedron, shift-dragging the entire bulb around to every result the deeps return.
without astro V and 8 probes, you'll go nuts if you're after anything that didnt log with aggro. long range - short range - long range - short range.. ugh
-
putting the gist back into logistics |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |