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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
BugraT WarheaD
Astromechanica Federatis
35
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Posted - 2012.04.26 15:29:00 -
[61] - Quote
Hi five you people ! Keep up this nice work ;) |
Daneel Trevize
The Scope Gallente Federation
96
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 15:29:00 -
[62] - Quote
Quote:illicit businessmen who could really care less about their impact on New Eden ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw Edumacate thy selves. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1669
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 15:32:00 -
[63] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:One thing to keep in mind if it takes that long to get a response other than "Goodbye" it could very well mean they are taking the time to be thorough, which in my mind is preferable a fast and probably negative outcome. At least one case in which CCP decided that the player was, shall we say, partially guilty (unbanned, minus some cash), the player in question was unbanned on all of his multiple accounts in less than a week. I'm sure kazanir can provide more examples of swift turnaround times. So, you can see why we're kind of upset about a month without so much as a "we're looking into it".
I fully understand that, I'm not trying to say your concern is not valid.
But if this situation involved a lot of ISK transactions/transfers it's going to take a much longer period of time to trace the income from all those sources.
That being said, I'm just applying common sense (that I think you can agree with). It could also just as easily be that the case you are concerned about slipped through the cracks somehow. It's unlikely, but they are only human so it is possible.
It's also possible that some RMT monies were in the mix that your friend was unaware of, which would complicate things a great deal.
You are doing what you should do, check back on the situation periodically for progress. Just don't lose sight of the fact that many of the details about any of these cases really can't be released (which makes it hard to keep in perspective when it's a long time aquaintance involved).
That, and my original point still holds. You can know someone for years in this game, and yet still be surprised by them dabbling in activities like this... often out of curiosity or a non-reoccuring need. Embarrassment keeps them from fessing up right away, which is understandable too.
You know what I'm saying... and that I'm not trying to throw stones directly at you or your friend.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Reginald Zebranky
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 15:36:00 -
[64] - Quote
Keep up the good work!
also, incidentally: spectrum of caring |
Arckaon
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 15:37:00 -
[65] - Quote
well, if Market bot IS ban i'll be happy :)
Nice job CCP |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
196
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 15:38:00 -
[66] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:corestwo wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:One thing to keep in mind if it takes that long to get a response other than "Goodbye" it could very well mean they are taking the time to be thorough, which in my mind is preferable a fast and probably negative outcome. At least one case in which CCP decided that the player was, shall we say, partially guilty (unbanned, minus some cash), the player in question was unbanned on all of his multiple accounts in less than a week. I'm sure kazanir can provide more examples of swift turnaround times. So, you can see why we're kind of upset about a month without so much as a "we're looking into it". I fully understand that, I'm not trying to say your concern is not valid. But if this situation involved a lot of ISK transactions/transfers it's going to take a much longer period of time to trace the income from all those sources. That being said, I'm just applying common sense (that I think you can agree with). It could also just as easily be that the case you are concerned about slipped through the cracks somehow. It's unlikely, but they are only human so it is possible. It's also possible that some RMT monies were in the mix that your friend was unaware of, which would complicate things a great deal. You are doing what you should do, check back on the situation periodically for progress. Just don't lose sight of the fact that many of the details about any of these cases really can't be released (which makes it hard to keep in perspective when it's a long time aquaintance involved). That, and my original point still holds. You can know someone for years in this game, and yet still be surprised by them dabbling in activities like this... often out of curiosity or a non-reoccuring need. Embarrassment keeps them from fessing up right away, which is understandable too. You know what I'm saying... and that I'm not trying to throw stones directly at you or your friend.
Taking a good long while to properly investigate is fine and we'd be okay with that, if not for the whole lack of any contact at all. A month without so much as a "We're looking at it and will keep you updated."
And your original point is still invalidated by Kazanir's API access. |
Ines Fy
Heroes of the Past Goonswarm Federation
35
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Posted - 2012.04.26 15:39:00 -
[67] - Quote
Quote:4.2 Trillion or so isk in assets has been seized from RMTers or suppliers.
Your economics guy was complaining that was too much isk in the economy. He also says that goods are not isk and removing goods is not a sink for the isk.
So what about the Eve Central Bank make an auction of of this seized goods with starting bids of 50% the market value and this way the ECB can remove even more isk from the economy and we all win in the process? |
Arckaon
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 15:44:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ines Fy wrote:Quote:4.2 Trillion or so isk in assets has been seized from RMTers or suppliers. Your economics guy was complaining that was too much isk in the economy. He also says that goods are not isk and removing goods is not a sink for the isk. So what about the Eve Central Bank make an auction of of this seized goods with starting bids of 50% the market value and this way the ECB can remove even more isk from the economy and we all win in the process?
Well i think CCP need to put more taxes to alliance and Corp
too many isk increase price
Forcing farming bounty etc
then more isk
we need a stable amount of isk in the game |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1669
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 15:45:00 -
[69] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:corestwo wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:One thing to keep in mind if it takes that long to get a response other than "Goodbye" it could very well mean they are taking the time to be thorough, which in my mind is preferable a fast and probably negative outcome. At least one case in which CCP decided that the player was, shall we say, partially guilty (unbanned, minus some cash), the player in question was unbanned on all of his multiple accounts in less than a week. I'm sure kazanir can provide more examples of swift turnaround times. So, you can see why we're kind of upset about a month without so much as a "we're looking into it". I fully understand that, I'm not trying to say your concern is not valid. But if this situation involved a lot of ISK transactions/transfers it's going to take a much longer period of time to trace the income from all those sources. That being said, I'm just applying common sense (that I think you can agree with). It could also just as easily be that the case you are concerned about slipped through the cracks somehow. It's unlikely, but they are only human so it is possible. It's also possible that some RMT monies were in the mix that your friend was unaware of, which would complicate things a great deal. You are doing what you should do, check back on the situation periodically for progress. Just don't lose sight of the fact that many of the details about any of these cases really can't be released (which makes it hard to keep in perspective when it's a long time aquaintance involved). That, and my original point still holds. You can know someone for years in this game, and yet still be surprised by them dabbling in activities like this... often out of curiosity or a non-reoccuring need. Embarrassment keeps them from fessing up right away, which is understandable too. You know what I'm saying... and that I'm not trying to throw stones directly at you or your friend. Taking a good long while to properly investigate is fine and we'd be okay with that, if not for the whole lack of any contact at all. A month without so much as a "We're looking at it and will keep you updated." And your original point is still invalidated by Kazanir's API access.
API access only gives you details about that one account. You know as well as I do there are many ways around that, and that penalties are not restricted to the account that made the infraction.
So no, you don't have access to all of the information that CCP would have access to about this persons activities. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1581
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 15:47:00 -
[70] - Quote
"Oh dear, everyone is going to quit when you take away my illegal botting and ISK buying!!!"
/10 people quit.
LOL - Good on you.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
100
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:03:00 -
[71] - Quote
Make them suffer!!!! |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
32
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:07:00 -
[72] - Quote
TEAM SECURITY SMASH SMASH BAD MEN!!! TEAM SECURITY SMASH SMASH GOOD!!! |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
69
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:07:00 -
[73] - Quote
You should implement a mission for new players where they have to watch a Concord movie on the CQ mainscreen that explains the issue in a not immersion breaking way. Explain them the PLEX market interactively. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1076
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:16:00 -
[74] - Quote
Kazanir wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:That is untrue and as I elaborated in every single case we've found where someone was flagged for RMT who shouldn't have been, they were doing something else they shouldn't have been. Not so much a false positive as a positive for the wrong activity.
It may be mincing words a bit but there's a very big difference from my perspective as these aren't really innocents getting caught in the crossfire. I have refrained from commenting or arguing with you on the forums, thus far, because I seriously respect you for this undertaking. You are doing a good thing and have to contend with a legion of idiots while doing so. Props. However, the response time we are seeing on certain things is a little disconcerting, and it is what motivated corestwo to post. In the case that corestwo is posting about, it took us nearly a month to get any sort of response despite repeated petitions and e-mails to your security@ e-mail address. Having to wait for such a long period of time without even a "we are looking at this" e-mail, while you are posting about the low false positive rate on the forums -- I'm sure you can see how these events make me sad. Nevertheless I have tried to be patient, but now it has been a month since the original bannings. Also, I know of at least one person who was unbanned a week ago and who had all of his accounts compensated with 14 days of game time for the false positive ban. You declined to provide an explanation for the false positive to this person, but I can only surmise that you considered him innocent rather than in the "was doing something shady" category. I'm trying to say this nicely because I genuinely want your efforts to be successful and I respect what you have done so far. This is why I haven't been harassing you about hypotheticals like the previous devblog thread. But the case I'm talking about is almost a textbook example of a false positive and so far it isn't being handled very well. Right now we have 200 billion ISK in assets (belonging to around 20-25 real people who invested in the bond) that are sitting unusable and have been for a month. In light of that situation, continuing to read posts about "no false positives" and "doing something else they shouldn't have been" at this point is aggravating. It is especially aggravating because there is no way the lost income from that 200B in assets will be compensated fairly by CCP if the person IS unbanned -- it is just gone, and there is no way for you to fairly rectify the consequences of a false positive of this magnitude. Like I said. I don't have any desire to start an Internet slapfight or rake you over the coals on this stuff since I think you're doing a pretty good job at a great thing. But yeah -- there are still issues, and for me they aren't just hypotheticals. Ranger 1 wrote:In all fairness, if your internet "friend" actually was doing something in violation of the EULA (botting, RMT, or otherwise) are you really sure they would admit it to you... I have access to the API data of the banned accounts that were mentioned by corestwo so I could go check if I really wanted to. But yes, in this case I am sure.
I stand behind what I said because it was true. The petition system is the place for you to air these complaints.
"I know a guy who said a thing" doesn't quite cut the mustard and unless it's your account you are not a part of the conversation by matter of policy. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
615
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:17:00 -
[75] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Wow..... AWESOME!!!!!
If 1268 accounts are now permabanned.... are you getting any flack from management about the loss of 1268 Monthly Subs??
That would be a loss of $20,000 in monthly income for CCP???
How can we get management off your back!!!!
Tell your friends that eve is being cleaned up and they should subscribe. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Camios
Minmatar Bread Corporation
100
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:23:00 -
[76] - Quote
Nice, I hope to hear news from your team every month. You could turn this into a monthly blog like "The tales of security Dad" where you tell us numbers.
That would really be a good marketing move.
Burn them all.
On a side note: what did you decide about 'scarlet letters'? |
spookydonut
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
100
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:26:00 -
[77] - Quote
Camios wrote:Nice, I hope to hear news from your team every month. You could turn this into a monthly blog like "The tales of security Dad" where you tell us numbers.
That would really be a good marketing move.
Burn them all.
On a side note: what did you decide about 'scarlet letters'?
After about page 3 he stopped replying in the thread. |
Aryndel Vyst
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
333
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:29:00 -
[78] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
I stand behind what I said because it was true. The petition system is the place for you to air these complaints.
"I know a guy who said a thing" doesn't quite cut the mustard and unless it's your account you are not a part of the conversation by matter of policy.
The petition system is staffed with tier 1 mongs that suggest answers like "reboot your computer" and "is the cable plugged into your computer". |
Pyrus Octavius
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
24
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:30:00 -
[79] - Quote
Bravo Team Security! If I could give you an in game medal, it would say something like this:
"For dedication and tenacity to make this ******* game more AWESOME, you are hereby awarded The Savior of EVE Cross of Kicking RMTers In The Balls " award .
Keep up the good work! |
Solo Drakban
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
845
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:30:00 -
[80] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:I stand behind what I said because it was true. The petition system is the place for you to air these complaints.
"I know a guy who said a thing" doesn't quite cut the mustard and unless it's your account you are not a part of the conversation by matter of policy.
We are at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia. The corp is mother... The corp is father...
Repeatedly claiming something is true doesn't make it so, regardless of how many people are posting in this thread on their knees wondering how to get the stain out of their clothing. |
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Kazanir
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
377
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:34:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:I stand behind what I said because it was true. The petition system is the place for you to air these complaints.
"I know a guy who said a thing" doesn't quite cut the mustard and unless it's your account you are not a part of the conversation by matter of policy.
I'm airing my complaint in here because I feel like your specific promises from the original thread aren't being honored and it is a matter of public concern. You specifically promised that while you didn't think much of the hypotheticals people were whining about, that you would look at specific, real examples of possible false positives.
The petition system in particular has seen multiple weeks with no responses to any petitions other than form letters and petitions closed without response. All of our petitions, e-mails, and forum posts have been unfailingly polite and patient and yet we're still not seeing progress.
I'm involved because the accounts in question control hundreds of billions in assets which were invested in a corporate IPO by members of my corporation. (This is a legitimate business venture, which, incidentally, is backed by CCP game mechanics in the form of corporation shares and dividends.) That means that their concerns are my concerns -- and since no one at CCP has responded to the primary party, I needed to make a little noise.
I am not wasting your time with unfunny point-scoring or other BS and so I'd also appreciate it if you didn't snarkily reply with straw-mans like, "I know a guy who said a thing." |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1079
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:36:00 -
[82] - Quote
Solo Drakban wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:I stand behind what I said because it was true. The petition system is the place for you to air these complaints.
"I know a guy who said a thing" doesn't quite cut the mustard and unless it's your account you are not a part of the conversation by matter of policy. We are at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia. The corp is mother... The corp is father... Repeatedly claiming something is true doesn't make it so, regardless of how many people are posting in this thread on their knees wondering how to get the stain out of their clothing.
Repeatedly saying something isnt so doesn't either. That's all the discussion that will occur in this thread on this subject. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1085
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:39:00 -
[83] - Quote
Camios wrote:Nice, I hope to hear news from your team every month. You could turn this into a monthly blog like "The tales of security Dad" where you tell us numbers.
That would really be a good marketing move.
Burn them all.
On a side note: what did you decide about 'scarlet letters'?
There's been no decision reached yet and I'm still going over the various responses. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Mahni
Stargazer Exploration Company Transmission Lost
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:44:00 -
[84] - Quote
Can you give us the number of of accs that were paid with plex and money? |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1085
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:45:00 -
[85] - Quote
Mahni wrote:Can you give us the number of of accs that were paid with plex and money?
I can not right now. I can say that I was surprised by the percentages if that's indicative of anything. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Jonah Gravenstein
202
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:50:00 -
[86] - Quote
Go Team Security , I also suggest a change in name, Team Robocop is good, I prefer Team Botbusters though
hi-five to all those involved, RMT is bad umkay War hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Ken Kyoukan
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:51:00 -
[87] - Quote
FAO: CCP Sreegs
I did evemail you a couple of times regarding this and a bot type matter alongside an email to the security email address... Feel free to contact me regarding these or to ask me to post them again here.
Thanks in advance, Ken. |
SXYGeeK
Wrecking Shots Test Alliance Please Ignore
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:52:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Kazanir wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:That is untrue and as I elaborated in every single case we've found where someone was flagged for RMT who shouldn't have been, they were doing something else they shouldn't have been. Not so much a false positive as a positive for the wrong activity.
It may be mincing words a bit but there's a very big difference from my perspective as these aren't really innocents getting caught in the crossfire. I have refrained from commenting or arguing with you on the forums, thus far, because I seriously respect you for this undertaking. You are doing a good thing and have to contend with a legion of idiots while doing so. Props. However, the response time we are seeing on certain things is a little disconcerting, and it is what motivated corestwo to post. In the case that corestwo is posting about, it took us nearly a month to get any sort of response despite repeated petitions and e-mails to your security@ e-mail address. Having to wait for such a long period of time without even a "we are looking at this" e-mail, while you are posting about the low false positive rate on the forums -- I'm sure you can see how these events make me sad. Nevertheless I have tried to be patient, but now it has been a month since the original bannings. Also, I know of at least one person who was unbanned a week ago and who had all of his accounts compensated with 14 days of game time for the false positive ban. You declined to provide an explanation for the false positive to this person, but I can only surmise that you considered him innocent rather than in the "was doing something shady" category. I'm trying to say this nicely because I genuinely want your efforts to be successful and I respect what you have done so far. This is why I haven't been harassing you about hypotheticals like the previous devblog thread. But the case I'm talking about is almost a textbook example of a false positive and so far it isn't being handled very well. Right now we have 200 billion ISK in assets (belonging to around 20-25 real people who invested in the bond) that are sitting unusable and have been for a month. In light of that situation, continuing to read posts about "no false positives" and "doing something else they shouldn't have been" at this point is aggravating. It is especially aggravating because there is no way the lost income from that 200B in assets will be compensated fairly by CCP if the person IS unbanned -- it is just gone, and there is no way for you to fairly rectify the consequences of a false positive of this magnitude. Like I said. I don't have any desire to start an Internet slapfight or rake you over the coals on this stuff since I think you're doing a pretty good job at a great thing. But yeah -- there are still issues, and for me they aren't just hypotheticals. Ranger 1 wrote:In all fairness, if your internet "friend" actually was doing something in violation of the EULA (botting, RMT, or otherwise) are you really sure they would admit it to you... I have access to the API data of the banned accounts that were mentioned by corestwo so I could go check if I really wanted to. But yes, in this case I am sure. I stand behind what I said because it was true. The petition system is the place for you to air these complaints. "I know a guy who said a thing" doesn't quite cut the mustard and unless it's your account you are not a part of the conversation by matter of policy.
o/\o High fives for team security.
Kazanir gave us a very measured and respectful viewpoint as one of the folks "caught in the crossfire" his and others accounts may not have been banned, but that doesn't mean they aren't affected.
I do think the response was a little vacuous.
I'd love to hear something like.. "Yes I'll see where the petitions are hung up" or "our team is currently looking into this and other potential false positive petitions" or even "I am sorry to report there are findings of legitimate wrong doing" but i understand there is a limit to how much you can disclose about specific cases.
Thanks for the hard work security bros !
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
74
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 16:59:00 -
[89] - Quote
Ines Fy wrote:Quote:4.2 Trillion or so isk in assets has been seized from RMTers or suppliers. Your economics guy was complaining that was too much isk in the economy. He also says that goods are not isk and removing goods is not a sink for the isk. So what about the Eve Central Bank make an auction of of this seized goods with starting bids of 50% the market value and this way the ECB can remove even more isk from the economy and we all win in the process?
I like this. There was suggestion at Fan Fest that the confiscated PLEX might be sold to players, why not some of these assets as well? If it is just a pile of Merlins and Rifters, it wouldn't really be worth it, but (from the value) I'm going to guess there is some nice shiny stuff in that 4.2 trillion isk pile of assets. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1096
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 17:07:00 -
[90] - Quote
SXYGeeK wrote:
o/\o High fives for team security.
Kazanir gave us a very measured and respectful viewpoint as one of the folks "caught in the crossfire" his and others accounts may not have been banned, but that doesn't mean they aren't affected.
I do think the response was a little vacuous.
I'd love to hear something like.. "Yes I'll see where the petitions are hung up" or "our team is currently looking into this and other potential false positive petitions" or even "I am sorry to report there are findings of legitimate wrong doing" but i understand there is a limit to how much you can disclose about specific cases.
Thanks for the hard work security bros !
The intent of the response isn't to be vicious. The fact of the matter is that I can't discuss this here nor can I discuss an individual's situation with anyone other than this individual.
No matter how nice the post is or how rude the rest of the posts on the exact same topic are the response cannot be any different.
Were I a guy playing a videogame who had a bunch of his space stuff tied up in some other guy who I thought was innocent I might be a bit put out and I understand that completely. This just isn't the venue for that discussion as frustrating as that may be. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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