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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2303
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:09:00 -
[91] - Quote
Bagehi wrote:Ines Fy wrote:Quote:4.2 Trillion or so isk in assets has been seized from RMTers or suppliers. Your economics guy was complaining that was too much isk in the economy. He also says that goods are not isk and removing goods is not a sink for the isk. So what about the Eve Central Bank make an auction of of this seized goods with starting bids of 50% the market value and this way the ECB can remove even more isk from the economy and we all win in the process? I like this. There was suggestion at Fan Fest that the confiscated PLEX might be sold to players, why not some of these assets as well? If it is just a pile of Merlins and Rifters, it wouldn't really be worth it, but (from the value) I'm going to guess there is some nice shiny stuff in that 4.2 trillion isk pile of assets.
CCP shouldn't be in the business of competing against produce the playerbase is also selling. ISK sinks are a nice thing, but I'm of the opinion, that simply deleting those assets is the best thing CCP can do with them. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P
C C P Alliance
1096
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
Bagehi wrote:Ines Fy wrote:Quote:4.2 Trillion or so isk in assets has been seized from RMTers or suppliers. Your economics guy was complaining that was too much isk in the economy. He also says that goods are not isk and removing goods is not a sink for the isk. So what about the Eve Central Bank make an auction of of this seized goods with starting bids of 50% the market value and this way the ECB can remove even more isk from the economy and we all win in the process? I like this. There was suggestion at Fan Fest that the confiscated PLEX might be sold to players, why not some of these assets as well? If it is just a pile of Merlins and Rifters, it wouldn't really be worth it, but (from the value) I'm going to guess there is some nice shiny stuff in that 4.2 trillion isk pile of assets.
One problem I have with this is that we're seeing patterns of activity where the isk is botted up and in this case we're printing isk at a rate which it should not be happening at out of thin air.
At the end of the day though I'm not an economics guy so the assets sit in the banned accounts until or unless someone decides to use them for something.
I'd considered at one point using them as a reward system but I can't get over the fact that a lot of this stuff just simply shouldn't exist and that can't be good for an economy.
"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
4
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:11:00 -
[93] - Quote
Nice work Sreegs & team.
@ whiny Goons: Why dont you shoot the Jita monument over it while you there anyway in 2 days ? |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
275
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:13:00 -
[94] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Very nice! This is good to see.
However I am still wondering if you have any actions planned for spammers and the likes that are, many that are most likely a funding for RMT as well I'm sure.
Spam is a problem! It keeps cluttering up channels and some are very easy and obvious, day old alts. I personally report bots every day but some still keep spamming weeks in. Will there be a team/plan to instantly ban spammers sometime too?
imo some are so obvious it doesn't need any investigation - just an instant hammer.
Keep up the great work, hope to see the next update you give with even more RMT/botters/spammers gone.
/c
:P Most of these jita spammers are even using scripts/bots to spam with... that should be considered against the rules... (you can notice by the intervals) |
Tanaka Aiko
ICE is Coming to EVE
Goonswarm Federation
69
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:14:00 -
[95] - Quote
good job guys :)
other solution may consist of cheaper GTCs (on RL money), to make RMT even harder to be profitable |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P
C C P Alliance
1096
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:23:00 -
[96] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Very nice! This is good to see.
However I am still wondering if you have any actions planned for spammers and the likes that are, many that are most likely a funding for RMT as well I'm sure.
Spam is a problem! It keeps cluttering up channels and some are very easy and obvious, day old alts. I personally report bots every day but some still keep spamming weeks in. Will there be a team/plan to instantly ban spammers sometime too?
imo some are so obvious it doesn't need any investigation - just an instant hammer.
Keep up the great work, hope to see the next update you give with even more RMT/botters/spammers gone.
/c
Spam is an annoying problem and I am not sure it should reside with us but I'll start some emails internally and see what kind of conversation I can stir up.
"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Xyfu
Love From Above
6
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:29:00 -
[97] - Quote
I'm worried about how effective this is. Were I an illicit ISK seller, I'd temporarily close shop and wait for you guys to utterly **** every other one, then go on to something else, (say, network manipulation becomes a bigger problem than RMT, or some ****), then start back up.
After all, it's been nearly 10 years of good business, what's 10 months of downtime? |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
Comic Mischief
617
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:31:00 -
[98] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Chribba wrote:Very nice! This is good to see.
However I am still wondering if you have any actions planned for spammers and the likes that are, many that are most likely a funding for RMT as well I'm sure.
Spam is a problem! It keeps cluttering up channels and some are very easy and obvious, day old alts. I personally report bots every day but some still keep spamming weeks in. Will there be a team/plan to instantly ban spammers sometime too?
imo some are so obvious it doesn't need any investigation - just an instant hammer.
Keep up the great work, hope to see the next update you give with even more RMT/botters/spammers gone.
/c Spam is an annoying problem and I am not sure it should reside with us but I'll start some emails internally and see what kind of conversation I can stir up.
If the spam is being entered into chat via a macro, I think it should reside with you.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Danny Centauri
Real Time Industries
42
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:33:00 -
[99] - Quote
Hey there,
Some actual research that could help you guys out. First these EVE ISK companies are relying upon two methods to attack the EVE community and get customers.
Firstly letGÇÖs deal with PPC advertising on Google, I will only deal with Google as that will cover the vast majority of the issue (some similar work may be required with Bing to cover the problem in the US). Right now PPC is a massive problem as itGÇÖs an instant trip to the top of the SERPs with the majority of Google users not realising that people pay for these rankings and that it is no indication that Google actually trust these sites just purely based upon the fact that they paid to be there.
As EVE online ISK and other EVE assets are copyrighted then get in touch with Google and make a Digital Millennium Copyright Act request to Google complaining about the copyrighted materials appearing on these ISK selling websites. This will then either force the site into removing these assets or if they donGÇÖt then Google will delist them not only from the regular SERPs but also from PPC.
Secondly onto regular results in the SERPs and how these can be tackled. Well to put it simply these companies are scammy as hell and their whole online strategy is based around spammy link building something which is actually against Googles guidelines, so straight away report them:
https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/spamreport?hl=en&pli=1
Then start your own site targeted towards the keyword table below, based around the effects of RMT on the EVE community and the risks of getting caught. You simply have to create better content than them and then plea to the EVE community to all write a blog post about RMT and buying ISK and link it to your site. If you ask people to use the anchor text for the exact keyword then great, if not donGÇÖt worry too much as Google have recently reduced the value of anchor text on links.
Site traffic for iskspot.com:
Query Percent of Search Traffic
buy isk 37.10%
eve online isk 21.49%
eve isk 13.41%
iskspot support 2.19%
buy eve isk 2.12%
iskspot safe 1.98%
damage dealing eve 1.29%
eve high-tech weapons 1.12%
eve security status 0.90%
eve weapons upgrades 5 0.78%
They have 2,820 back links of which 295 come from 255 websites with the anchor text GÇÿeve ISKGÇÖ and 254 come from 225 websites with the anchor text GÇÿbuy iskGÇÖ. This is something we can easily beat as a community especially with high PR links from the main EVE sites.
Finally one last recommendation is to make a youtube video optimised for the keywords buy isk, perhaps go for a title like GÇÿbuy ISKGǪ suffer the consequencesGÇÖ. This will then with a little bit of work appear in the SERPs too as Google love putting Youtube videos at the top of the SERPS effectively giving you double top positions and knocking everyone else actually selling ISK below the fold.
If you steal their traffic you kill their industry. If you require any advice or want any further information please feel free to contact me. I'm sure there are plenty more SEO'ers in the community that could offer you further advice too. Good luck killing RMT.
Regards,
Danny
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CCP Sreegs
C C P
C C P Alliance
1102
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:36:00 -
[100] - Quote
Xyfu wrote:I'm worried about how effective this is. Were I an illicit ISK seller, I'd temporarily close shop and wait for you guys to utterly **** every other one, then go on to something else, (say, network manipulation becomes a bigger problem than RMT, or some ****), then start back up.
After all, it's been nearly 10 years of good business, what's 10 months of downtime?
You should encourage them all to do this.
"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Voidfinger
The Suicide Kings
Test Alliance Please Ignore
11
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:37:00 -
[101] - Quote
Man I love spending 500+ million for a abbadon! |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
197
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:44:00 -
[102] - Quote
These two words...they do not mean the same thing. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
668
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:44:00 -
[103] - Quote
CCP Sreegs - Were there any unique items seized? By that I mean ships like the Freki, Mimir, Adrestia, Utu, Silver Magnate, Guardian-Vexor, etc... of which only a few have been released in the game and there's no way to add more?
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Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
44
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:47:00 -
[104] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Spam is an annoying problem and I am not sure it should reside with us but I'll start some emails internally and see what kind of conversation I can stir up. If the spam is being entered into chat via a macro, I think it should reside with you.
How do you tell the difference between a macro running externally to the client that spams whatever window is active (EULA violation), versus some guy mashing an F-key on his Logitech G19 (legit trolling)? |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P
C C P Alliance
1107
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:48:00 -
[105] - Quote
corestwo wrote:These two words...they do not mean the same thing.
I can type what I want
"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P
C C P Alliance
1107
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:49:00 -
[106] - Quote
Gogela wrote:CCP Sreegs - Were there any unique items seized? By that I mean ships like the Freki, Mimir, Adrestia, Utu, Silver Magnate, Guardian-Vexor, etc... of which only a few have been released in the game and there's no way to add more?
I don't think so but we'll look. As I said in the blog these really aren't EVE players. They don't enjoy the game or play it as anything other than a business.
"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Logix42
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
55
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:52:00 -
[107] - Quote
Double high five for the security team!
Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á
Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE.-á
Check out the G-Doc list at http://bit.ly/wdatt or the Eve-áforum post at http://bit.ly/I56ebm |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
197
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:53:00 -
[108] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:corestwo wrote:These two words...they do not mean the same thing. I can type what I want
Drinking during the alliance panel at fanfest was hilarious, drinking at work is not.  |
SXYGeeK
Wrecking Shots
Test Alliance Please Ignore
10
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:02:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:SXYGeeK wrote:
o/\o
High fives for team security.
Kazanir gave us a very measured and respectful viewpoint as one of the folks "caught in the crossfire"
his and others accounts may not have been banned, but that doesn't mean they aren't affected.
I do think the response was a little vacuous.
I'd love to hear something like..
"Yes I'll see where the petitions are hung up"
or "our team is currently looking into this and other potential false positive petitions"
or even "I am sorry to report there are findings of legitimate wrong doing"
but i understand there is a limit to how much you can disclose about specific cases.
Thanks for the hard work security bros !
The intent of the response isn't to be vicious. The fact of the matter is that I can't discuss this here nor can I discuss an individual's situation with anyone other than this individual. No matter how nice the post is or how rude the rest of the posts on the exact same topic are the response cannot be any different. Were I a guy playing a videogame who had a bunch of his space stuff tied up in some other guy who I thought was innocent I might be a bit put out and I understand that completely. This just isn't the venue for that discussion as frustrating as that may be.
Thanks Sreegs, I really appreciate what your team is doing.
I didn't say you where vicious! please know I don't want to infer you are doing these things out of malice.
I said the statement was vacuous (lacking substance).
but that is understandable based on CCP's policy of discussing user accounts.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
3285
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:02:00 -
[110] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Chribba wrote:Very nice! This is good to see.
However I am still wondering if you have any actions planned for spammers and the likes that are, many that are most likely a funding for RMT as well I'm sure.
Spam is a problem! It keeps cluttering up channels and some are very easy and obvious, day old alts. I personally report bots every day but some still keep spamming weeks in. Will there be a team/plan to instantly ban spammers sometime too?
imo some are so obvious it doesn't need any investigation - just an instant hammer.
Keep up the great work, hope to see the next update you give with even more RMT/botters/spammers gone.
/c Spam is an annoying problem and I am not sure it should reside with us but I'll start some emails internally and see what kind of conversation I can stir up. If the spam is being entered into chat via a macro, I think it should reside with you.
I was just going to say this exact thing.
I'll just quote some of my recent tweets on the subject of bots in jita.
Quote:According to my stats, under the past 24h, the top 15 speakers in Jita were all spam bots, spamming 41.5% of all chat text #tweetfleet
Quote:Top 3 speakers in Jita in 2012: #1 Samantha Marley, #2 Widow Ohaya, #3 EureekasCastle Aucie #tweetfleet (all spambots btw...)
Plus some obvoius spambots:
http://evelocal.com/p/Jazmine_Tsukaya
http://evelocal.com/p/Jammie_Kahoudi
http://evelocal.com/p/bfdy_fdsgg
Spamming by bots is a problem, and it is becoming more and more frequent. I use the report bot function every day on these guys but not sure if anything happens, at least I would love if they got banner quicker than for their trial to run out.
/c
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Alpheias
Euphoria Released
Verge of Collapse
607
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:14:00 -
[111] - Quote
I fapped while reading.
I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies
I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
Florestan Bronstein
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
536
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:21:00 -
[112] - Quote
I wonder who these chest-beating, self-professed internet experts are who insist that this problem cannot be solved on the supply side... 
GM Grimmi wrote:The demand for ISK is what keeps the RMT element alive. They'll keep coming back as long as players are willing to do business with them. We realize that the demand for ISK will not go away and we offer an alternative. |
Elmanketticks
State Protectorate
Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:26:00 -
[113] - Quote
After reading that I bought 6x PLEX via eveonline.com. You never know when u need em ;)
FOR THE STATE! |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
68
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:27:00 -
[114] - Quote
Great Work, CCP has been doing so many things right in so many ways ... and hopefully seeing the results in player growth from giving players what they've demanded (iterative improvements always not a choice of new or old) you'll keep listenting to players (not obeying what you hear but giving it more than a passing consideration) in the future.
TO others in the thread.
Moles ! if Goons and almost every other hugely sucessful EVE alliance has engaged in spying and deep mole activities, don't you think that CCP would also engage in covert ops to gain intelligence ?
As covert agents they'd have access to out of game forums and likely could have engaged in sting operations without blowing their cover.
Lets say you get an email via an out of game forum asking you.. "hey, would you mind trading some WoW currency for some ISK" and go ahead and make that transaction assuming it was just a alliance mate.
They could use that sort of internal evidence to support their other suspicions. This isn't a court of law where they might need to give up the name of their mole and there is no reason they can't be as clever as players in their space exploits. I'm not sure that if that were a few hundred million isk and looked isolated they'd make a big deal of it.... but if they saw a pattern of exchanges done in the manner that a person requested it be done they very well might be more inclined to act.
I know that I was contacted once for a passing comment I made on an EVE forum about being willing to sell isk at a much lower price than the market IF I had CCP's blessing to do so (or if it somehow became legal to ignore that part of a EULA).
While I had made a conditional statement which clearly stated that as things stand I would not engage in such an activity, someone did contact me trying to see if I'd be willing to sell plex or isk for real $.
Now, as it was using ingame mail, it wasn't a very sneaky ploy or it was a real idiot of a player willing to ask via game channels. Of course all they got from me was a wall of text return evemail saying NO and explaining my reasoning why I would consider it stealing without CCP's blessing or a general move toward legal RMT microtransactions.
Still, such a thing coming via external channels could be quite a good way to crack down . I'd imagine it would be pretty easy for them to actually have an employer or contractor (magnum PI ?) buy gold from gold sellers and trace where the character with the isk got it from...... but they can also go the next step and post adds wanting to buy or trade isk for out of game services on outside game forums and bust people who contact them.
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Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1103
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:29:00 -
[115] - Quote
"Be careful with whom you trade with - Team security will plunder your wallets harder than the goons."
Get |
VaMei
Meafi Corp
146
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:30:00 -
[116] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Ines Fy wrote:Your economics guy was complaining that was too much isk in the economy.
He also says that goods are not isk and removing goods is not a sink for the isk.
So what about the Eve Central Bank make an auction of of this seized goods with starting bids of 50% the market value and this way the ECB can remove even more isk from the economy and we all win in the process? One problem I have with this is that we're seeing patterns of activity where the isk is botted up and in this case we're printing isk at a rate which it should not be happening at out of thin air. At the end of the day though I'm not an economics guy so the assets sit in the banned accounts until or unless someone decides to use them for something. I'd considered at one point using them as a reward system but I can't get over the fact that a lot of this stuff just simply shouldnGÇÖt exist and that can't be good for an economy.
I like the idea of an GÇÿEBCGÇÖ. It gives CCP a tool to sink isk from the economy without manipulating taxes & fees. Using confiscated goods (goods only, no isk) to do it would be rather like a SheriffGÇÖs Auction, but the isk would go back to the central bank rather than continuing to circulate.
I understand that you have reservations about returning ill-gotten goods to the economy, but thereGÇÖs a sizeable amount of isk in circulation that was created through illicit means as well; and Dr. E. seems to be more worried about the isk at this point.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P
C C P Alliance
1131
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:31:00 -
[117] - Quote
VaMei wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Ines Fy wrote:Your economics guy was complaining that was too much isk in the economy.
He also says that goods are not isk and removing goods is not a sink for the isk.
So what about the Eve Central Bank make an auction of of this seized goods with starting bids of 50% the market value and this way the ECB can remove even more isk from the economy and we all win in the process? One problem I have with this is that we're seeing patterns of activity where the isk is botted up and in this case we're printing isk at a rate which it should not be happening at out of thin air. At the end of the day though I'm not an economics guy so the assets sit in the banned accounts until or unless someone decides to use them for something. I'd considered at one point using them as a reward system but I can't get over the fact that a lot of this stuff just simply shouldnGÇÖt exist and that can't be good for an economy. I like the idea of an GÇÿEBCGÇÖ. It gives CCP a tool to sink isk from the economy without manipulating taxes & fees. Using confiscated goods (goods only, no isk) to do it would be rather like a SheriffGÇÖs Auction, but the isk would go back to the central bank rather than continuing to circulate. I understand that you have reservations about returning ill-gotten goods to the economy, but thereGÇÖs a sizeable amount of isk in circulation that was created through illicit means as well; and Dr. E. seems to be more worried about the isk at this point.
The isk was created to purchase the goods. :)
"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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kakmonstret
Domain Mining and Trading Corp
6
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:39:00 -
[118] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
The isk was created to purchase the goods. :)
Yes but alot of that goods was created by other players not cheating and thus not add to the system illegally . The stuff bought from NPC:s ofcourse was created by that isk.
The again money was sent out from the cheating player for that goods and I guess you are not reversing all those trades too.
But a middle ground here would be to sell on those things that are of a type that only players can create.
Ninja edit:
Problem is that those things *should* be in game not the isk that was traded for it. This suggestion actually helps pulling some of that isk out of the game |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
198
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:40:00 -
[119] - Quote
Except as he already stated those items shouldn't belong in the game anyway as they were often times obtained through extensive botting and so why would they sell them? |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P
C C P Alliance
1132
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:45:00 -
[120] - Quote
I'm seeing some confusion and need to point out that the botting actions are still ongoing. This is an RMT-related blog and doesn't touch upon botting numbers at all. We'll do those another time.
"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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