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Dao 2
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Posted - 2004.08.12 23:45:00 -
[61]
with 425 auto on a cruiser i did the same amount of dmg of frig rails!
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2004.08.12 23:45:00 -
[62]
with 425 auto on a cruiser i did the same amount of dmg of frig rails!
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.13 00:03:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Selim on 13/08/2004 00:11:23
I'm not even minmatar and I think all projectiles need a tracking boost, and autocannons need quicker rate of fire.
I mean the Tempest is... ok but its still not good because its guns cant hit anything! and when they do its for poor damage because of the poor tracking. I'm not talking at 10km, I'm talking at very high range. Plus it cant tank very well. Its 'fast' you say? Well it doesnt really make much difference on a battleship. 
But again, its the GUNS that need some serious improvement. There IS something wrong with the things. They cant even hit a battleship for cripes sake. They need better tracking, and quicker rate of fire. Across the board. Anything that will bring both the base damage over time equal to hybrids and lasers, AND make them track better so they can kill something.
Dont tell me that they 'dont use cap'. Lets see... Tempest has the lowest capacitor of all tier 2 battleships, so its canceled out. Lets see again. Lasers on an Apoc/Geddon use f*ck all cap because of the bonuses + the 'controlled bursts skill'. Hybrids also use f*ck all with that skill. Both Gallente and Amarr ships have superior capacitor batteries as well. The Caldari missiles dont use cap at all, and they can vary their damage type completely, without sacraficing total damage or range. Nobody's complaining about the caldari right now, they're fine.
And lastly - the controlled bursts skill is unbalanced. It benefits hybrids and lasers, but not projectiles. Dont say 'dont train it', because thats silly, its a couple weeks training to get from level 1 to level 5 which is nothing. It takes already superior guns and makes them even easier to use, compared to the projectiles.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.13 00:03:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Selim on 13/08/2004 00:11:23
I'm not even minmatar and I think all projectiles need a tracking boost, and autocannons need quicker rate of fire.
I mean the Tempest is... ok but its still not good because its guns cant hit anything! and when they do its for poor damage because of the poor tracking. I'm not talking at 10km, I'm talking at very high range. Plus it cant tank very well. Its 'fast' you say? Well it doesnt really make much difference on a battleship.
But again, its the GUNS that need some serious improvement. There IS something wrong with the things. They cant even hit a battleship for cripes sake. They need better tracking, and quicker rate of fire. Across the board. Anything that will bring both the base damage over time equal to hybrids and lasers, AND make them track better so they can kill something.
Dont tell me that they 'dont use cap'. Lets see... Tempest has the lowest capacitor of all tier 2 battleships, so its canceled out. Lets see again. Lasers on an Apoc/Geddon use f*ck all cap because of the bonuses + the 'controlled bursts skill'. Hybrids also use f*ck all with that skill. Both Gallente and Amarr ships have superior capacitor batteries as well. The Caldari missiles dont use cap at all, and they can vary their damage type completely, without sacraficing total damage or range. Nobody's complaining about the caldari right now, they're fine.
And lastly - the controlled bursts skill is unbalanced. It benefits hybrids and lasers, but not projectiles. Dont say 'dont train it', because thats silly, its a couple weeks training to get from level 1 to level 5 which is nothing. It takes already superior guns and makes them even easier to use, compared to the projectiles.
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Lysender
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Posted - 2004.08.13 01:28:00 -
[65]
 Quote:
hey look! over here! more tempest users whining that theyre ship isnt the best anymore!
I don't fly a Tempest, I pilot the Megathron or an Appoc. My concerns are to make everyone happy with what ship they trained for. Try to keep your comments constructive. 
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Lysender
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Posted - 2004.08.13 01:28:00 -
[66]
Quote:
hey look! over here! more tempest users whining that theyre ship isnt the best anymore!
I don't fly a Tempest, I pilot the Megathron or an Appoc. My concerns are to make everyone happy with what ship they trained for. Try to keep your comments constructive.
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Grut
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Posted - 2004.08.13 02:00:00 -
[67]
IMO tempests suffer from two things, the cap relay nerf hurt their ability to shield tank far more then ravens due to their low cpu.
Tracking changes mean the dot on 1400's is terrible listening to one of my corpmates trying to kill a 500k bs rat a few weeks back was painful he was having trouble getting past its repairs, i didnt even notice it had repairs when spawing in an apoc.
To fix this you need 2 things
1. Cap relays denerfed, replace - shield boost with a stacking nerf and higher requirements.
2. Boost projectiles either tracking needs to be increased or dmg needs to be jacked up so when you get in the sweet spot you can really feel it.
Mostly harmless |
Grut
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Posted - 2004.08.13 02:00:00 -
[68]
IMO tempests suffer from two things, the cap relay nerf hurt their ability to shield tank far more then ravens due to their low cpu.
Tracking changes mean the dot on 1400's is terrible listening to one of my corpmates trying to kill a 500k bs rat a few weeks back was painful he was having trouble getting past its repairs, i didnt even notice it had repairs when spawing in an apoc.
To fix this you need 2 things
1. Cap relays denerfed, replace - shield boost with a stacking nerf and higher requirements.
2. Boost projectiles either tracking needs to be increased or dmg needs to be jacked up so when you get in the sweet spot you can really feel it.
Mostly harmless |
Dylan
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Posted - 2004.08.13 02:14:00 -
[69]
Im also a Tempest flyer and find it not the best BS at all, I too use 800mm ove r1400mm after the tracking nerf, my 800mm are better but I still lack in dot.
I recently bought myself a raven and found the dmg is much better and the armor tank is MUCH stronger...
fix proj PLZ...
If Jack helped you off a horse, would you help Jack off a horse?!?!?! o.0 |
Dylan
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Posted - 2004.08.13 02:14:00 -
[70]
Im also a Tempest flyer and find it not the best BS at all, I too use 800mm ove r1400mm after the tracking nerf, my 800mm are better but I still lack in dot.
I recently bought myself a raven and found the dmg is much better and the armor tank is MUCH stronger...
fix proj PLZ...
If Jack helped you off a horse, would you help Jack off a horse?!?!?! o.0 |
G8torSkull
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Posted - 2004.08.13 02:47:00 -
[71]
i decided to change gun setups for giggles today and piad for 5 dual 425mm ac's. put them on tempest went to do lvl 3 missions vs sanshas. i warped in at 15km locked the underlord and moved in. optimal range for this gun is 3500m i think with the amo i had loaded. i crank em up at 10km and start orbiting to optimum range. out of 5 guns going i hit the underlord one time for 40.3 points out of 500 shots and i had even moved back to 10km cause i thought i may be to close at optimum. now tell me that there aint something totally wrong with projectiles
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G8torSkull
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Posted - 2004.08.13 02:47:00 -
[72]
i decided to change gun setups for giggles today and piad for 5 dual 425mm ac's. put them on tempest went to do lvl 3 missions vs sanshas. i warped in at 15km locked the underlord and moved in. optimal range for this gun is 3500m i think with the amo i had loaded. i crank em up at 10km and start orbiting to optimum range. out of 5 guns going i hit the underlord one time for 40.3 points out of 500 shots and i had even moved back to 10km cause i thought i may be to close at optimum. now tell me that there aint something totally wrong with projectiles
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Veneth
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Posted - 2004.08.13 03:44:00 -
[73]
Striking along what many others have said. It's true the problem doesn't really fall with the tempest though it's weird assignment of mediums and lows makes it hard to tank anywhich way but with projectiles
i have:
Large Projectile 4
Surgical strike 4
Rapid firing 5
Motion prediction 5
The uber long rate of fire projectiles suffer coupled with the worst tracking and lowest ammo holdings means this guns just plan suck.
Seriously who cares if a 1400 only takes 3 power to fire when the gun does nothing??
After the patch i switched to 1200s I still can't hit to well and when I do it's for a measley 150-200 damage, and I'm still waiting 10 or so seconds a shot
The only gun that seems to work is the Dual 425 and even then your not going to kill anything with cruisers with this gun.
We're not asking for the best guns in the game, but Damn.. seriously do they have to be worse than any cruiser sized laser? I can kill stuff in a Maller faster than I can from my Tempest.
I sunk months and months in trianing to make my Tempest good, now it sucks
I spent ONE WEEK. 1.. yes OOOOOOOOONNNNNNEEE week to use a APoc and OMG the thing kicks more A$$ than I ever could from the Temp. I only have BS 2, large lasers 3 and controlled burst 2 or 3 (don't rember atm) and I can shred Cruisers and other battleships with relative ease
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Veneth
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Posted - 2004.08.13 03:44:00 -
[74]
Striking along what many others have said. It's true the problem doesn't really fall with the tempest though it's weird assignment of mediums and lows makes it hard to tank anywhich way but with projectiles
i have:
Large Projectile 4
Surgical strike 4
Rapid firing 5
Motion prediction 5
The uber long rate of fire projectiles suffer coupled with the worst tracking and lowest ammo holdings means this guns just plan suck.
Seriously who cares if a 1400 only takes 3 power to fire when the gun does nothing??
After the patch i switched to 1200s I still can't hit to well and when I do it's for a measley 150-200 damage, and I'm still waiting 10 or so seconds a shot
The only gun that seems to work is the Dual 425 and even then your not going to kill anything with cruisers with this gun.
We're not asking for the best guns in the game, but Damn.. seriously do they have to be worse than any cruiser sized laser? I can kill stuff in a Maller faster than I can from my Tempest.
I sunk months and months in trianing to make my Tempest good, now it sucks
I spent ONE WEEK. 1.. yes OOOOOOOOONNNNNNEEE week to use a APoc and OMG the thing kicks more A$$ than I ever could from the Temp. I only have BS 2, large lasers 3 and controlled burst 2 or 3 (don't rember atm) and I can shred Cruisers and other battleships with relative ease
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Nieda
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Posted - 2004.08.13 07:15:00 -
[75]
How about we contact a CSM person so he can ask about our problems on the next chat with devs ? Its not that we are going to get any answers here.
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2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage. |
Nieda
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Posted - 2004.08.13 07:15:00 -
[76]
How about we contact a CSM person so he can ask about our problems on the next chat with devs ? Its not that we are going to get any answers here.
---------------------------------------------
2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage. |
Mistress Zhantine
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Posted - 2004.08.13 08:24:00 -
[77]
Yep, i'm in exactly the same position... spent months training nothing but min and projectiles so i could be truly effective in my tempest... then the nerf... i just spent about 7 days training up so i could use and Apoc and personally i'm disgusted... even dual heavy pulse do better DoT than 1400', 1200's or 800's...
I just fail to see any balance at all... I remember when i started training for the temp, everyone said it was by far the most skill intensive BS and they were'nt wrong, but as far as i can tell this dedication to one ship seems to have gone largely un-noticed by the devs.
You see what power is... Holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them...
2004.07.28 21:21:45combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Mortifier, wrecking for 916.3 damage. |
Mistress Zhantine
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Posted - 2004.08.13 08:24:00 -
[78]
Yep, i'm in exactly the same position... spent months training nothing but min and projectiles so i could be truly effective in my tempest... then the nerf... i just spent about 7 days training up so i could use and Apoc and personally i'm disgusted... even dual heavy pulse do better DoT than 1400', 1200's or 800's...
I just fail to see any balance at all... I remember when i started training for the temp, everyone said it was by far the most skill intensive BS and they were'nt wrong, but as far as i can tell this dedication to one ship seems to have gone largely un-noticed by the devs.
You see what power is... Holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them...
2004.07.28 21:21:45combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Mortifier, wrecking for 916.3 damage. |
D'Artagnan
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Posted - 2004.08.13 09:35:00 -
[79]
I myself am a tempest pilot with battleship lvl 5 and all other related skills at 4 or 5 and i have to say what has happened to the tempest has really made me sad. 1400mm suck now big time i refuse to even let them near my ship. The only way to tank it at all well is to go with armour tanking but this is hard due to the low base cap on a tempest.
800mm the dot is pretty low now as well.
There is no area where the tempest is even good at except maybe speed but this only adds to the tracking problems that are related to the 1400mm and it is not really a bonus anyway i mean come in i can go 20 m/s faster than you OHHHHHH big deal every 50 secs i will travel a KM more than you GREAT.
My tempest is very close to being put in the bin as it is just a worth pile of scrap metal atm.
My account will now be pretty much worthless as 6 mill of my 11 mill skill points were directed towards flying a tempest. This really makes me mad as i love this game but there is no point in having a character that is worthless after all it is costing me תתתת a month and i do not like wasting mone on worthless things so i guess this account will dissapear soon if things are sorted out
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D'Artagnan
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Posted - 2004.08.13 09:35:00 -
[80]
I myself am a tempest pilot with battleship lvl 5 and all other related skills at 4 or 5 and i have to say what has happened to the tempest has really made me sad. 1400mm suck now big time i refuse to even let them near my ship. The only way to tank it at all well is to go with armour tanking but this is hard due to the low base cap on a tempest.
800mm the dot is pretty low now as well.
There is no area where the tempest is even good at except maybe speed but this only adds to the tracking problems that are related to the 1400mm and it is not really a bonus anyway i mean come in i can go 20 m/s faster than you OHHHHHH big deal every 50 secs i will travel a KM more than you GREAT.
My tempest is very close to being put in the bin as it is just a worth pile of scrap metal atm.
My account will now be pretty much worthless as 6 mill of my 11 mill skill points were directed towards flying a tempest. This really makes me mad as i love this game but there is no point in having a character that is worthless after all it is costing me תתתת a month and i do not like wasting mone on worthless things so i guess this account will dissapear soon if things are sorted out
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.08.13 11:14:00 -
[81]
I don't understand CCP. Level 2 BS - it's a top of line of ships. It MUST be completely tested after any big changes in the game, but as we can see from the current state with Tempest (useless BS level 2) - seems likes as no testing at all or may be only quick testing on stationary targets at optimal range. And no changes after 2-3 patches (or may me continuous nerfing the ship). 
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.08.13 11:14:00 -
[82]
I don't understand CCP. Level 2 BS - it's a top of line of ships. It MUST be completely tested after any big changes in the game, but as we can see from the current state with Tempest (useless BS level 2) - seems likes as no testing at all or may be only quick testing on stationary targets at optimal range. And no changes after 2-3 patches (or may me continuous nerfing the ship).
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2004.08.13 11:32:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 13/08/2004 11:34:04
I would have though minmatar would be into close combat with the speed and all.
I dont have a BS cause its hell to make that much money. But my 720mm howitzers equally suck. I still use them cause i got nothing better for the slots. But they hit every now and then for some extra damage. Im really killing with my 3 heavy launchers. If this situation extends to the tempest, then when i get the cash, probably I should not buy a tempest. Hell, it don't mine much better than a Thorax...
AND YES, controlled bursts is probably the biggest imbalance to projectile weapons around. Where is our skill to improve our guns specifically?
P.S. Isin't the Tempest a level 2 BS and not a tech 2 BS?
____
If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2004.08.13 11:32:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 13/08/2004 11:34:04
I would have though minmatar would be into close combat with the speed and all.
I dont have a BS cause its hell to make that much money. But my 720mm howitzers equally suck. I still use them cause i got nothing better for the slots. But they hit every now and then for some extra damage. Im really killing with my 3 heavy launchers. If this situation extends to the tempest, then when i get the cash, probably I should not buy a tempest. Hell, it don't mine much better than a Thorax...
AND YES, controlled bursts is probably the biggest imbalance to projectile weapons around. Where is our skill to improve our guns specifically?
P.S. Isin't the Tempest a level 2 BS and not a tech 2 BS?
____
If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.08.13 11:39:00 -
[85]
Im not sure how you guys are getting such bad lucky. If I fight a npc spawn of cruisers and frigs my 720s have no trouble for hitting in the high damage range. This is with (no) tracking computer....
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.08.13 11:39:00 -
[86]
Im not sure how you guys are getting such bad lucky. If I fight a npc spawn of cruisers and frigs my 720s have no trouble for hitting in the high damage range. This is with (no) tracking computer....
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BlackPlague
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Posted - 2004.08.13 12:02:00 -
[87]
Agree with the original poster.
Tempest - Projectile needs attention NOW. The poor dmg, tracking, loadout, etc is explained well through out these posts.
Further evidence can be seen on the market. BPC's of tempests are showing up regularly for 3.5M. Everyone is mothballing them. The only way to "adapt" is train for another race BS. Sucks when you have put the time into MimBS 5....
Come on CCP.... quit ignoring the obvious!
My Siggie Scares Seleene... Boo! |
BlackPlague
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Posted - 2004.08.13 12:02:00 -
[88]
Agree with the original poster.
Tempest - Projectile needs attention NOW. The poor dmg, tracking, loadout, etc is explained well through out these posts.
Further evidence can be seen on the market. BPC's of tempests are showing up regularly for 3.5M. Everyone is mothballing them. The only way to "adapt" is train for another race BS. Sucks when you have put the time into MimBS 5....
Come on CCP.... quit ignoring the obvious!
My Siggie Scares Seleene... Boo! |
Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.08.13 12:05:00 -
[89]
Sell me your tempests for super cheap and ill put them to good use if you wont.
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.08.13 12:05:00 -
[90]
Sell me your tempests for super cheap and ill put them to good use if you wont.
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